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TurnaroudUK
Topic Author
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 7:11 pm

Why no WizzAir & WOW at MAN?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:35 pm

The title sort explains it all.
I would of thought these airlines would have at least one destinaton from MAN, does anyone have any light on this situation?
 
Tdan
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Re: Why no WizzAir & WOW at MAN?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:41 pm

Wizz wants more discounts than MAN is willing to offer. WOW is likely a matter of time.
We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
 
SCQ83
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Re: Why no WizzAir & WOW at MAN?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:43 pm

Wizzair flies to LPL, so this is probably "Manchester" for them.
 
User001
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Re: Why no WizzAir & WOW at MAN?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:47 pm

Given MAN-KEF sees up to daily Icelandair and daily Easyjet, as well as peak charter flights from Thomson, seems the market is well served for now.

In terms of wizz, both sides have met numerous times, but cannot agree terms. Given wizz now serve airports like BHX/LGW/GLA in the UK, one could say it's only a matter of time before hands are shook.
 
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hvusslax
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Re: Why no WizzAir & WOW at MAN?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:58 pm

WOW has not gone head to head with FI on any UK/Ireland route outside London. I think they might also prefer LPL before MAN.
 
davies2911
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Re: Why no WizzAir & WOW at MAN?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:26 pm

Im amazed WOW haven't tried LBA or NCL as the North East side of the country is completely uncovered to my knowledge for any Iceland flights.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Why no WizzAir & WOW at MAN?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:46 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Wizzair flies to LPL, so this is probably "Manchester" for them.


And Doncaster-Sheffield as well, so this region is very well served. I guess Manchester is too big and they tend to avoid the bigger airports using smaller airports instead.

Here in the Netherlands they use Eindhoven, Maastricht and Groningen but they stay away from Amsterdam because Amsterdam is too big and therefor too expensive. Anyone going to Amsterdam on Wizzair should fly to Eindhoven and then take the shuttle bus to Amsterdam, I guess there are similar shuttle services between Manchester and Liverpool and/or Doncaster-Sheffield as well.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Why no WizzAir & WOW at MAN?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:52 pm

davies2911 wrote:
Im amazed WOW haven't tried LBA or NCL as the North East side of the country is completely uncovered to my knowledge for any Iceland flights.


Easyjet and WOW Air both fly Edinburgh to Keflavik and Thomson will shortly start East Midlands to Keflavik. But Edinburgh is all the way up north in Scotland, there's indeed nothing connecting the north of England with Iceland.
 
TurnaroudUK
Topic Author
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Re: Why no WizzAir & WOW at MAN?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:59 pm

I just think with Wizz that eastern europe is a market that can be better served from MAN
 
User001
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Re: Why no WizzAir & WOW at MAN?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:11 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Wizzair flies to LPL, so this is probably "Manchester" for them.


And Doncaster-Sheffield as well, so this region is very well served. I guess Manchester is too big and they tend to avoid the bigger airports using smaller airports instead.


It's worth pointing out Wizz have some 'large' airports in their portfolio.

They switched some flights from Luton to Gatwick, all routes from Prestwick to Glasgow, now serve Birmingham after pulling Coventry many years ago. Also serve the likes of Barcelona, Palma, Madrid, Lisbon and Copenhagen, not exactly small airports.....
 
Waterbomber
Posts: 849
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:51 am

Re: Why no WizzAir & WOW at MAN?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:02 pm

WOW is too small to be discussed as heavily as they are here.
It seems very easy to bait airliners.net members with theoretical fares and cheap looking marketing that you can't find or can't fly. 500-600 Euro's return to cross the Atlantic isn't particularly cheap when you have to pay for BOB and checked luggage (min. 50 Euro's for TATL 20kg). Also, depending on the set of destinations and days, there are cheaper offers with legacy carriers with food and checked luggage.

If that's all you need to be admitted into the LCC category...
I'm not convinced that they're cheaper or that they'll be around for a long time.

If they want to parade as a low fares airline, let's see them offer real low fares consistently.
 
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PatrickZ80
Posts: 4384
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Re: Why no WizzAir & WOW at MAN?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:05 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
WOW is too small to be discussed as heavily as they are here.
It seems very easy to bait airliners.net members with theoretical fares and cheap looking marketing that you can't find or can't fly. 500-600 Euro's return to cross the Atlantic isn't particularly cheap when you have to pay for BOB and checked luggage (min. 50 Euro's for TATL 20kg). Also, depending on the set of destinations and days, there are cheaper offers with legacy carriers with food and checked luggage.

If that's all you need to be admitted into the LCC category...
I'm not convinced that they're cheaper or that they'll be around for a long time.

If they want to parade as a low fares airline, let's see them offer real low fares consistently.


You just don't understand the LCC concept. Of course not every ticket is as cheap as they advertise, they wouldn't make profit that way. There's a very steep curve in the price level, making that they can offer some seats very cheap. They do make a loss on those seats, but it's marketing. It's their way of letting people know they're cheap.

And nobody is forcing you to pay for checked luggage. Most people flying on an LCC only take hand luggage on board and therefor it doesn't matter what they charge for checked luggage. They don't pay that anyway.

Of course if you take all options (checked luggage, food on board, etc) the legacies may sometimes be cheaper, but if you don't you better fly a LCC. I know Norwegian charges 30 euros for a meal on board. Simply have a meal at the airport before you leave (usually less than 10 euros) and bring a sandwich on board and again you save money. Legacies don't give you that choice, they include a "free" meal and simply raise the ticket price with 30 euros for it. They don't offer the option to save on those costs.

LCC's are to stay, they're very popular with people that don't need all the service of a legacy carrier. The fastest growing airlines in the world are LCC's. There is a lot of demand for low-cost flights and I don't see that changing.
 
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hvusslax
Posts: 423
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:35 pm

Re: Why no WizzAir & WOW at MAN?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:37 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
WOW is too small to be discussed as heavily as they are here.
It seems very easy to bait airliners.net members with theoretical fares and cheap looking marketing that you can't find or can't fly. 500-600 Euro's return to cross the Atlantic isn't particularly cheap when you have to pay for BOB and checked luggage (min. 50 Euro's for TATL 20kg). Also, depending on the set of destinations and days, there are cheaper offers with legacy carriers with food and checked luggage.

If that's all you need to be admitted into the LCC category...
I'm not convinced that they're cheaper or that they'll be around for a long time.

If they want to parade as a low fares airline, let's see them offer real low fares consistently.


It's an internet forum for aviation enthusiasts. People will discuss whatever interests them without regard to any metric of airline "size". WOW Air is a young, fast-growing airline that is doing unusual things so of course it is going to attract more attention than size alone would warrant. A lot of that attention has been pretty negative as there have been several threads dedicated to WOW delays and one time there was a slanderous rumor thread suggesting imminent cancellation of major routes that was not based in any kind of reality.
 
Travelmanager
Posts: 136
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Why no WizzAir & WOW at MAN?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:58 pm

hvusslax wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
WOW is too small to be discussed as heavily as they are here.
It seems very easy to bait airliners.net members with theoretical fares and cheap looking marketing that you can't find or can't fly. 500-600 Euro's return to cross the Atlantic isn't particularly cheap when you have to pay for BOB and checked luggage (min. 50 Euro's for TATL 20kg). Also, depending on the set of destinations and days, there are cheaper offers with legacy carriers with food and checked luggage.

If that's all you need to be admitted into the LCC category...
I'm not convinced that they're cheaper or that they'll be around for a long time.

If they want to parade as a low fares airline, let's see them offer real low fares consistently.


It's an internet forum for aviation enthusiasts. People will discuss whatever interests them without regard to any metric of airline "size". WOW Air is a young, fast-growing airline that is doing unusual things so of course it is going to attract more attention than size alone would warrant. A lot of that attention has been pretty negative as there have been several threads dedicated to WOW delays and one time there was a slanderous rumor thread suggesting imminent cancellation of major routes that was not based in any kind of reality.


:checkmark:
I agree, the reason that WOW is so interesting to may of us is that they seem to be able to make LHLCC work. This is a game changer. I don't think that we discuss it more than the US3 do in their executive boardrooms. Just like we have seen Basic Economy in response to Spirit/Frontier, I expect we will see long haul basic economy as well since there is a market for that price point. This makes WOW a very interesting airline to follow.
 
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eurowings
Posts: 574
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Re: Why no WizzAir & WOW at MAN?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:58 pm

TurnaroudUK wrote:
I just think with Wizz that eastern europe is a market that can be better served from MAN


Ryanair covers Eastern Europe fairly well from MAN - but there's probably room for Wizz at both LPL and MAN as they both serve large cities and the wider North West. Wizz at DSA I've always found interesting, they have quite a sizeable operation there.

However, the fact that Blue Air are setting up a base in LPL demonstrates that it's not an airport that should ever be ruled out.
"Freddie Laker may be at peace with his Maker, but he is persona non grata with IATA."- HRH Duke of Edinburgh
 
Waterbomber
Posts: 849
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:51 am

Re: Why no WizzAir & WOW at MAN?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:21 pm

Travelmanager wrote:
hvusslax wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
WOW is too small to be discussed as heavily as they are here.
It seems very easy to bait airliners.net members with theoretical fares and cheap looking marketing that you can't find or can't fly. 500-600 Euro's return to cross the Atlantic isn't particularly cheap when you have to pay for BOB and checked luggage (min. 50 Euro's for TATL 20kg). Also, depending on the set of destinations and days, there are cheaper offers with legacy carriers with food and checked luggage.

If that's all you need to be admitted into the LCC category...
I'm not convinced that they're cheaper or that they'll be around for a long time.

If they want to parade as a low fares airline, let's see them offer real low fares consistently.


It's an internet forum for aviation enthusiasts. People will discuss whatever interests them without regard to any metric of airline "size". WOW Air is a young, fast-growing airline that is doing unusual things so of course it is going to attract more attention than size alone would warrant. A lot of that attention has been pretty negative as there have been several threads dedicated to WOW delays and one time there was a slanderous rumor thread suggesting imminent cancellation of major routes that was not based in any kind of reality.


:checkmark:
I agree, the reason that WOW is so interesting to may of us is that they seem to be able to make LHLCC work. This is a game changer. I don't think that we discuss it more than the US3 do in their executive boardrooms. Just like we have seen Basic Economy in response to Spirit/Frontier, I expect we will see long haul basic economy as well since there is a market for that price point. This makes WOW a very interesting airline to follow.


So far, WOW Air has nothing to be called a LHLCC and is not a game changer. You are making stuff up and are only relaying their marketing PR.
It only proves how easily you are manipulated, not how interesting their business model is.
Have you even simulated a booking with them to see if their PR matches their actual offer?

Here is a simulation for May 2017:
AMS-BOS-AMS, cheapest return fare 420 EUR, highest return fare 630 EUR
Shopping bag 1 piece free
Cabin luggage (Ryanair size) 1 piece 42 EUR one-way
Hold luggage 1 piece 20kg (below the usual 23kg limit) 1 piece 52 EUR one-way

So tell me what is interesting about this expensive airline?

If they keep this business model, they will go bust in no time.
 
Travelmanager
Posts: 136
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Why no WizzAir & WOW at MAN?

Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:45 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
Travelmanager wrote:
hvusslax wrote:

It's an internet forum for aviation enthusiasts. People will discuss whatever interests them without regard to any metric of airline "size". WOW Air is a young, fast-growing airline that is doing unusual things so of course it is going to attract more attention than size alone would warrant. A lot of that attention has been pretty negative as there have been several threads dedicated to WOW delays and one time there was a slanderous rumor thread suggesting imminent cancellation of major routes that was not based in any kind of reality.


:checkmark:
I agree, the reason that WOW is so interesting to may of us is that they seem to be able to make LHLCC work. This is a game changer. I don't think that we discuss it more than the US3 do in their executive boardrooms. Just like we have seen Basic Economy in response to Spirit/Frontier, I expect we will see long haul basic economy as well since there is a market for that price point. This makes WOW a very interesting airline to follow.


So far, WOW Air has nothing to be called a LHLCC and is not a game changer. You are making stuff up and are only relaying their marketing PR.
It only proves how easily you are manipulated, not how interesting their business model is.
Have you even simulated a booking with them to see if their PR matches their actual offer?

Here is a simulation for May 2017:
AMS-BOS-AMS, cheapest return fare 420 EUR, highest return fare 630 EUR
Shopping bag 1 piece free
Cabin luggage (Ryanair size) 1 piece 42 EUR one-way
Hold luggage 1 piece 20kg (below the usual 23kg limit) 1 piece 52 EUR one-way

So tell me what is interesting about this expensive airline?

If they keep this business model, they will go bust in no time.


Umm, not really sure how to reply to this as you seem to want to create your own reality. You think charging 420 EUR return from Europe to the USA makes them an expensive airline? Their baggage fees are higher than Ryanair, but so are the distances that they fly. I have checked their fares and and many cases there are many cities and dates when they are hundreds less than anyone else. What makes them interesting is that they have, together with Norwegian, really started apply the LCC model to transatlantic.
 
sevenhillslad
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:24 pm

Re: Why no WizzAir & WOW at MAN?

Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:07 pm

eurowings wrote:
TurnaroudUK wrote:
I just think with Wizz that eastern europe is a market that can be better served from MAN


Ryanair covers Eastern Europe fairly well from MAN - but there's probably room for Wizz at both LPL and MAN as they both serve large cities and the wider North West. Wizz at DSA I've always found interesting, they have quite a sizeable operation there.

However, the fact that Blue Air are setting up a base in LPL demonstrates that it's not an airport that should ever be ruled out.


I was once confused too regarding Wizz serving DSA so well - until I used a service to WAW. I think Wizz are pretty happy with their current position. I also believe DSA would be very eager to keep them. Liverpool serves a vast of the north-west quite well. Doncaster serves the other side of the pennines very well without the higher operating costs of MAN.

I don't believe we will see Wizz at MAN at anytime soon. RYR serve eastern europe semi-well. Time shall tell - however for budget services to eastern europe. I don't think travelling to LPL or DSA is a real issue for many people. So why change something which clearly looks to be working.
 
rutankrd
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:08 am

Re: Why no WizzAir & WOW at MAN?

Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:00 pm

For Wizz - Speke and Finningley are a package deal courtesy of Peel Holdings.

Both need the footfall through their terminal and retail areas.

MAG Group probably doesn't need to go so low to attract them right now and especially as Terminal Access is already stretched at Manchester and Stansted whilst East Midlands has reasonable breadth of Polish routes courtesy of Ryanair (MAG Group bedfellow with probably the biggest packaged deal across UK group airports).

With the pending departure of the UK from the EU and certain travel/work restrictions particularly on East Europeans (for no other reason than bigoted racist reasons imho) Wizz operations may be significantly impacted in the mid term anyway.

Particularly those in Finningley as the neighbouring rural and agricultural areas of Lincolnshire and the East Riding host some of the most Pro-Brexit and anti migrant populous in the country for some reason.

From the Manchester specific point of view through the real network weakness is surely Romania - Not a single regular flight to this country today, yet Tarom operated to Bucharest with 1-11s (so long ago !) and of course from the late 60s through to the 90s near weekly summer holiday charters to Constanta using exotic Soviet Ilyushins, Tupolev and Boeing 707s (Nostalgia alert...period end)

As for the other carrier WOW I would expect them to be monitoring Manchester because it certainly fits their profile imho

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