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Aeroflot777
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FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:02 pm

In all my years of air travel, I've never come across flight attendants getting up to disarm doors prior to full aircraft stop / parking position. This past weekend, I was on EasyJet flying Innsbruck - London. After landing, we were taxiing to the gate and before we had even pulled in to the stand, the command came over the PA for FAs to disarm all doors. All the flight attendants got up and did so, proceeding to move around the galley fixing things up... all while the aircraft was still taxiing in. We came to a full stop some moments later.

Are there any rules around this, or is it up to the airline to decide when to disarm doors after landing? Normally, I always see flight attendants getting up at the same time as passengers, once the seatbelt sign goes off. It was my first time flying EasyJet since 2008, and I was quite surprised to see this happen.
 
raddek
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:43 pm

Well i have never seen that myself. All procedures here stateside are to wait till the aircraft is at a complete stop before disarming the L1 door.
Then when the door is open, at least where i am, then you make an all call to disarm the others.

The issue id have with them disarming the doors as the plane is still rolling is what if there is a fire? Then you have to open the doors right away for some reason and the slides do nothing.

I am pretty sure it wasn't done right. But since its in Europe, i cant speak for what the rules and regulations are like there versus the US
 
RedSnapper
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:03 pm

Most UK airlines I fly on (BA, BE, EZY, ZB) make the call as the aircraft is on the stand guidance centreline i.e a few seconds before coming to a complete stop. Hopefully someone with knowledge of the regulation can give us the definitive version.
 
Cory6188
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:08 pm

I haven't flown KL long-haul, but I've noticed that they do this on their short-haul flights within Europe (and I've have to imagine that the same procedure would apply across the system, regardless of aircraft type). The announcement for arming the doors is usually made during pushback, and the announcment for disarming is made as the plane turns into the gate.
 
ozark1
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:10 pm

At the company I work for, the seat belt sign being turned off upon arrival at the jetbridge is indication to disarm doors, after the lead flight attendant tells the crew to do so. I have been on flights where the lead announced us to disarm and we were pulling in to the gate. This was an incorrect procedure. But I've seen it done a few times, normally not.
 
tonystan
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:19 pm

It's very much the norm in the U.K. It's standard procedure at BA for the flight crew to give the command of doors to manual whilst the aircraft is still taxiing onto stand.

Personally I'd like to see it changed to a command by the SCCM after the seatbelt sign has gone off as many passengers seem to think either the command by the flight crew or the inter phone chimes are the OK for them all to get up despite the aircraft hurtling towards an imminent breaking.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
FlyingHamster33
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:45 pm

Absolutely, this is a normal practice at BA, and many other airlines, such as AF as well ( Captain announces "last turn" as they turn into the stand, which is the signal for the SCCM to call for doors to manual) . Waiting for full stop would not necessarily be safer, as passengers from row one would already be in the galley with their bags in most cases, right behind the Crew, maybe impending a clear and focused disarming procedure and cross-checking, increasing the risk of inadvertent slide deployment.
 
greg85
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:49 pm

I believe KLM were the first to do it. It's certainly helped easyJet dramatically reduce the number of inadvertent slide deployments. It's part of a wider procedure designed by a human factors expert. Disarming after the seatbelt sign is off is too late, and the call coming from the cabin crew defeats the point of the process. As for regulation, this procedure is approved.(and it's not new)
 
smi0006
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:51 pm

Normal at QF, VA & NZ too. I would assume this is due to all the obstructions to slides in a gate area - GSE, trucks, aerobridge. Slides wouldn't deploy properly, injure waiting ramp staff or potentially come back into the cabin if the aerobridge was close. The risk of needing to use a slide in the last min of taxi VS using an aerobridge and rearming the rear doors is probs minimal.

Having the seat belt sign in still also keeps pax out of the FAs way as they cross check.
 
Alitalia744
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:55 pm

This seems the norm of AF according to the many flights I've had.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
WNCrew
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:56 pm

I used to commute on AA and they used to (maybe it's changed) get up just as they were pulling into the gate and the FD would announce "Ladies and gentlemen we aren't quite to the gate, please keep your seatbelts fastened. Flight Attendants please prepare doors for arrival and crosscheck." (or something close to that). I saw it more on the MD80 than anything else.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
EZEflyerEMB
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:29 pm

It's standard practice at my airline, we usually get from the flight deck, cabin crew thank you, disarm doors. Once we're up the a/c has generally come to a stop.
 
DDR
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:09 pm

At my airline in the U.S., the lead FA gets on the PA and says "Prepare doors for arrival and crosscheck" as soon as the seat belt sign is turned off. If passengers see us up moving before the seat belt sign is off, they assume it's ok for them to be up as well. Plus, if you are in the back jumpseats, you can't really see outside so you have no idea how close you are to the jetbridge.
 
sevenair
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:44 pm

I'm sure BA used to do it when turning off the runway.

easyJet invested in a detailed study of why slides were blown. Passengers getting in the way and distracting them was found to be a major cause.

Disarming with the passengers sat down means they are well out of the way. Passengers are told that crew will be released from their seats to "perform safety related duties" and that they must remain seated until the signs are off.

Doors are still disarmed and cross checked. Two crew at the front cross check doors 1L and 1R. At the back two crew disarm door 2L and 2R. One of the crew at doors 2 then ring the purser who confirms the doors are disarmed on their screen. THEN the purser calls the captain who will confirm the FLIGHT DECK indication of the door status.

And each and every time a door is open it takes two crew members to open them and it is physically checked, permission being granted to the other crew member to open the door. This helps protect against people going through the motions on auto pilot as well as reducing risks when it comes to 'non normals' which was also found to be a major risk factor in blowing a slide.

To my knowledge they have not had a single slide blow since.

This is EasyJet SOP. This is policy and therefore must be legal as the CAA sign off on their manuals and grant them an AOC.
 
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longhauler
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:59 am

While some on here are thinking about the issues of blowing a slide when not needed when there is no emergency with all of that additional travail, think about it the other way around ...

What if you did need to evacuate the aircraft during that vulnerable time so close to the gate? Instead of worrying about making sure the slides are disarmed, they really should be thinking about never leaving the aircraft in a position where it may take longer than normal to evacuate everyone. Especially with so much equipment around.

Where I fly, the slides are disarmed when the parking brake is set and the beacon is off. That is signaled to the Flight Attendants by extinguishing the seat belt sign. When the beacon is off, then all ground equipment surrounds the aircraft ... slides would be useless anyway.

However, the rear right exit is always left clear of equipment, (rear left on the E190), and the exit is always manned (but not armed) ... just in case. As you know, there have been incidents where evacuations at the gate were necessary. We lost a DC-8 once during fuelling, luckily everyone got out in time.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
sevenair
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:41 am

If you did, then it takes a second to rearm a door and then blow the slide. Fair enough on the 737 with the old school way of arming it, but on an air but you lift a pun, push a small handle and then away she goes. Power assist and auto inflation in seconds.

Ground crews are poised to jump into action as soon as the beacon is on. There is equipment all over. I don't see how a couple of metres or seconds make it any more risky. The aircraft is arguably more vulnerable when there's all sorts of equipment working it - by which time slides are disarmed any way.
 
CXfirst
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:26 pm

As I see it, I think it would be safer to disarm the doors as the aircraft taxis in to the stand (so only moments before the full stop). Passengers are very quick to get up after the aircraft has stopped, and may cause a distraction to crew, leading to no crosscheck for instance. Probably more so important on wide-bodies, where there is a bit more distance to walk for your crosscheck,and hence more space for passengers to become a hurdle.

-CXfirst
 
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Aeroflot777
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:39 pm

Thanks for all the answers! Fascinating to see two very different approaches being used depending on the airline's country. Just so happens that I had my return flight on easyJet today back to INN, and was sure to pay closer attention after reading some of your replies. A few observations, making me lean towards the US-approach (perhaps also used elsewhere?) being the safer one:

Once we landed and turned off of Runway 26, the crew said something along the lines of "In a few moments, the crew will get up to perform their landing duties. Please remain seated until the aircraft has come to a complete stop and seatbelt sign is off.". Sure enough, a few seconds later the command for FA's to disarm doors for arrival came on and they stood up. Well guess what... so did 50% of the pax. We were still rolling and in fact everything happened so quickly that a good portion of pax already had time to grab their roller carry-on bags from the bins and put them down in the aisle before we even stopped. Only then did we park in position and the sign went off.

Crew didn't seem to care, and the guy sitting behind me in the last row was already zipped up with his winter jacket with roller in hand waiting to disembark right when the sign turned off.

Obviously everything was fine and it didn't make a difference, it was a smooth brake and stop. But I can't help but think all the commotion and people getting out of their seats while still some taxi left is not a great thing should an emergency arise. Sure, we can blame it on the people for being idiots and not listening to crew instructions. But seems like they look at the crew as an example and follow, typical herd mentality.
 
lucce
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:05 pm

AY has kind of a hybrid of these: just before the final turn the first officer announces "cabin crew prepare for gate arrival, gate number XX". The purser recognizes when the turn is completed and then announces "cabin crew take your door positions" clearing the crew to get up, go to their assigned doors and get the "remove before flight"-pins etc ready. Then after the seat belt sign is turned off they actually lift up the disarming handles.

It gives the cabin crew a head start but the doors still remain armed until the engines are off. Haven't seen this procedure with other airlines though.
 
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XAM2175
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:28 am

QF have the flight crew announce "cabin crew; disarm the doors" while on taxi and keep the seatbelt sign lit until the aircraft is on stand and the engines are shut down. In all my flights with them I've never seen anybody stand before the aircraft stopped moving, except for a single passenger on a flight into HKG, and she was promptly bellowed at by one of the FAs.
 
Bongodog1964
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:47 am

BA have for many years disarmed the doors before the plane stops on the stand, the one thing that has changed is the wording used. It used to be "cabin crew, doors to manual and crosscheck"

Now it is along the lines of ""cabin crew disarm the doors please" I can't recall the exact phrase now, but think each time "what happened to "doors to manual"

Cynics may claim that the change in the language is down to the mother of our future queen (an ex BA stewardess) objecting to people muttering "doors to manual" behind her back
 
ajs123uk
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:40 pm

It's still "doors to manual and cross check" on BA
 
tonystan
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:13 am

Bongodog1964 wrote:
BA have for many years disarmed the doors before the plane stops on the stand, the one thing that has changed is the wording used. It used to be "cabin crew, doors to manual and crosscheck"

Now it is along the lines of ""cabin crew disarm the doors please" I can't recall the exact phrase now, but think each time "what happened to "doors to manual"

Cynics may claim that the change in the language is down to the mother of our future queen (an ex BA stewardess) objecting to people muttering "doors to manual" behind her back


What are you talking about? It's still "doors to manual/automatic". Only change is on the A380 where it's "Doors to disarm/armed".
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
Bongodog1964
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:01 am

tonystan wrote:
Bongodog1964 wrote:
BA have for many years disarmed the doors before the plane stops on the stand, the one thing that has changed is the wording used. It used to be "cabin crew, doors to manual and crosscheck"

Now it is along the lines of ""cabin crew disarm the doors please" I can't recall the exact phrase now, but think each time "what happened to "doors to manual"

Cynics may claim that the change in the language is down to the mother of our future queen (an ex BA stewardess) objecting to people muttering "doors to manual" behind her back


What are you talking about? It's still "doors to manual/automatic". Only change is on the A380 where it's "Doors to disarm/armed".


Thanks for the explanation, my last BA flights were on the A380 hence my statement that the terminology had been changed. This of course leads to a supplementary question, why would BA have a different term for the door disarming on the A380 to the rest of the fleet ? Seems particularly confusing when cabin crew can hold current ratings for 3 different types
 
sevenair
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:59 am

You'll always get one or two idiots standing up. I commuted with easyJet weekly but it was on a biz route so regular flyers. Perhaps a leisure destination would be different.

The first officer gives the command to disarm doors. Perhaps easyJet should change it to "ladies and gentlemen, please remain seated, cabin crew disarm doors for arrival".
 
Lofty
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:25 am

Disarm and cross check should happen before the A/C comes to a halt. If they have an issue with a door the flight crew could decide to stop short notify ground to let the meeting ground crew know not to go near the door with a issue.
 
SK4007
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:35 am

Where I work we get the command to disarm the doors, crosscheck, and report on the PA from the SCC after the seatbelt sign has been switched off. When the SCC is done disarming their doors they will initiate a conference call with the two CCs in the back to confirm that the doors are disarmed and checked (Station 2, doors disarmed and checked) and then proceeds to check their own doors and confirm (Station 1, doors disarmed and checked) with the ones in the back. When departing the goal is to always arm the doors before pushing, but sometimes it will be done during pushing.
 
ckfred
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Re: FAs Disarming Doors Before Gate Arrival?

Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:27 pm

When I've been on AA, I seem to recall that as the plane turns on the lead-in line into the gate, one of the pilots (usually the F/O), reminds passengers to remain in their seats until the plane is parked and the "Fasten Seat Belt" sign is turned off. Usually, it's as the plane is hitting its mark that I hear the call for F/As to disarm the doors. It's within a couple of seconds of that PA call, when the plane stops, the engines start to spool down, and the seat belt sign goes off.

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