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inflightVideo
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Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:57 am

Interesting development. Brussels Airlines are to wet least three SSJs from CityJet for two years starting in April.

http://atwonline.com/leasing/brussels-a ... -superjets
 
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Siren
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:23 am

Fantastic news, although I don't believe it's new news - I am pretty sure that I'd heard this in the initial threads when the SSJ deal with Cityjet was announced. The more exposure the SSJs get in the 'first world', the better it is for them. I'll admit, I am biased - I like to root for the "underdog", and Sukhoi certainly is that. If the plane is as good as Interjet says it is, it will continue to win customers with its extremely low costs as compared to the more established manufacturers.

One thing I haven't seen - I'm very curious about fuel burn numbers as compared to its direct competitors - the E190 and the CS100. Does anyone have these numbers readily available? I'm almost certain that the SSJ is probably the highest in terms of fuel burn, but the low costs - would that be enough to offset that?

Furthermore, does anybody have experience, or have heard anything regarding the support that Sukhoi is offering to carriers, if a bird were to go tech, for instance? If you have an AOG situation, how quickly are they able to dispatch parts and service as compared to the more established players?
 
LY777
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:29 am

I wouldn't like to fly on one of these birds which are prone to technical issues
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:34 am

I flew on one on OSL-SVO and enjoyed it.
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r2rho
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:40 am

One thing I haven't seen - I'm very curious about fuel burn numbers as compared to its direct competitors - the E190 and the CS100. Does anyone have these numbers readily available? I'm almost certain that the SSJ is probably the highest in terms of fuel burn, but the low costs - would that be enough to offset that?
I don't have the numbers but the SSJ most definitely beats the E190. It is much lighter, has better aerodynamics, and at least on paper the SaM146 has better SFC in the high single digits than the CF34 (though I'd love to see real performance numbers). The engine is also designed for high cycles and easy maintenance.

Regarding the CS100, I expect the SSJ to be slightly behind but not all-to far. Keep in mind that the CS100 is a larger frame designed for somewhat more capacity and much more range. The SSJ should fall somewhere in between E190 and CS100.
 
wezgulf3
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:42 am

LY777 wrote:
I wouldn't like to fly on one of these birds which are prone to technical issues


Yet you have flown on a 787, which had far more serious tech issues in the beginning. Far more serious than anything Sukhoi has brought to the table!
 
sevenair
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:44 am

LY777 wrote:
I wouldn't like to fly on one of these birds which are prone to technical issues


Interjet seem to think they have excellent dispatch reliability. I'm not sure what you mean.
 
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intotheair
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:45 am

Will it get the full SN livery? Their ERJ only has the SN logotype near the front.

Interesting decision. I'm more interested in the fact that SN is outsourcing more flying rather than keeping it all mainline following the Avro RJ retirements. That can't be good for pilot relations, is it?

And on that note, the clock is ticking for me to finally fly an Avro RJ before they're all gone...
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Someone83
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:48 am

intotheair wrote:
Will it get the full SN livery?


From what I hear from some in Cityjet: Yes

Cityjet also have a few SSJ deliveries coming up the NeXT couple of months, so probably those
 
SCQ83
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:49 am

I thought they had been grounded due to technical issues. I wouldn't fly either a Putin-backed aircraft; those planes shouldn't have a place in the European Union. Lufthansa Group should not allow SN to make this.
 
dcaviation
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:07 am

SCQ83 wrote:
I thought they had been grounded due to technical issues. I wouldn't fly either a Putin-backed aircraft; those planes shouldn't have a place in the European Union. Lufthansa Group should not allow SN to make this.


Aren't they made in Italy?

Take the latest Alaska flight to Havana to cool off chap.
 
LY777
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:54 pm

wezgulf3 wrote:
LY777 wrote:
I wouldn't like to fly on one of these birds which are prone to technical issues


Yet you have flown on a 787, which had far more serious tech issues in the beginning. Far more serious than anything Sukhoi has brought to the table!


Didn't they find a defect in the stabilizer attachment bands?
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deltadawg
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:27 pm

I have flown on Interjet's SSJ's several times MEX-ZCL and MEX-TAM. I believe Interjet has 20 or so SSJ's now and I have even seen the SSJ's at IAH. I personally enjoyed the plane and found it to be every bit as comfortable as an EJet.
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ek241yyz
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:45 pm

Any idea of routes SN will put these SSJ's on?
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Siren
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:56 pm

LY777 wrote:
I wouldn't like to fly on one of these birds which are prone to technical issues


Do you have any basis for your assertion that the SSJ is any more prone to failure than any other airliner? What is your source?
 
Wayfarer515
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:56 am

LY777 wrote:
wezgulf3 wrote:
LY777 wrote:
I wouldn't like to fly on one of these birds which are prone to technical issues


Yet you have flown on a 787, which had far more serious tech issues in the beginning. Far more serious than anything Sukhoi has brought to the table!


Didn't they find a defect in the stabilizer attachment bands?


The stabilizer attachment issues were only found in a batch of the early frames and is not a fundamental design failure, and was more related to the torques applied on those specific frames. Sukhoi has already issued a permanent fix and the newer frames such as those of Cityjet did not have the problem.

It is interesting the LH group agreed to such a deal, if not for other reason than political ones as the birds seem to have a very good performance. BTW, talking about fuel burn it seems it is somewhere around 1780kg/h which is pretty good compared to the E190, the design fuel burn was around 1820kg/h IIRC.
 
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:16 am

Wayfarer515 wrote:
It is interesting the LH group agreed to such a deal, if not for other reason than political ones as the birds seem to have a very good performance.

Transactions like these are negotiated over weeks and months and Lufthansa hasn't had full control of Brussels Airlines long enough to have had any significant influence on the deal, other than perhaps a quick glance at the final terms sheet before signatures were exchanged.

Brussels Airlines may sign on for two more wet-leased Superjets before the end of the year. Between the three aircraft under the current deal and three A319/A320s on order, Brussels Airlines needs two more frames to achieve its goal of retiring its Avro fleet by the end of the year. Alternatively, a rumor is floating around that Lufthansa is considering the transfer of two CS100s from Swiss to Brussels Airlines but I can't imagine they'd want to set up a two-aircraft fleet. If CS100s are to be based in BRU, a wet-lease between Brussels Airlines and Swiss Global seems the more likely option.
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:01 am

SCQ83 wrote:
I thought they had been grounded due to technical issues. I wouldn't fly either a Putin-backed aircraft; those planes shouldn't have a place in the European Union. Lufthansa Group should not allow SN to make this.


Very minor technical issues that had been fixed in a couple of days. A lot of aircraft, including western built ones, got similar issues during the startup phase. Once they have been fixed (which they are now) it's a perfectly reliable aircraft. The fact that it's a Russian design seems irrelevant to me.

Any reliable aircraft should have a place in the European Union and so I don't see any reason why Lufthansa would not allow Brussels Airlines to lease these aircraft. There's really nothing wrong with it.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:11 am

SCQ83 wrote:
I thought they had been grounded due to technical issues. I wouldn't fly either a Putin-backed aircraft; those planes shouldn't have a place in the European Union. Lufthansa Group should not allow SN to make this.


Yes some were grounded due to metal fatigue. Odd in planes flying around 2 years, but remember the UK Comet had fatigue issues as well. Also Boeing was involved with development as well.
Last edited by rbavfan on Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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hispanola
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:14 am

Though Russian aircraft have had a rocky history, not every Western-Built plane has had magnificent record either. Think of the DC-10 and MD-11. I'd rather fly the SSJ than one of those two. The MD-Lemon (as American Airlines crew would call it) in particular was always experiencing mechanicals. Many of Interjet's flights arrive on time, so the SSJ must not be as bad as some believe.
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LA704
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:50 am

You guys sound like the SSJ is a death trap... I think any plane that has spent time at LH Technik is fine to fly on, regardless of the type. Flying Allegiant would me more of a concern for me.
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us330
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:41 pm

LA704 wrote:
You guys sound like the SSJ is a death trap... I think any plane that has spent time at LH Technik is fine to fly on, regardless of the type. Flying Allegiant would me more of a concern for me.


Agreed. Lots of airplanes have "teething problems" of sorts when they first start service--look at the 787--and you also have some aircraft with design issues that last for quite a while before they are resolved, like the 737. This is the only issue that I've heard about the SSJ, and it is being promptly dealt with. I'd be more afraid of flying Allegiant with it's horrendous record of incidents over the past couple of years with an otherwise sturdy aircraft (design-wise) than flying on an SSJ
 
Cunard
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:58 pm

dcaviation wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
I thought they had been grounded due to technical issues. I wouldn't fly either a Putin-backed aircraft; those planes shouldn't have a place in the European Union. Lufthansa Group should not allow SN to make this.


Aren't they made in Italy?

Take the latest Alaska flight to Havana to cool off chap.


No they are not made in Italy, in fact the Italian partners have just recently pulled out of the Superjet project.
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Waterbomber
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:27 pm

LA704 wrote:
You guys sound like the SSJ is a death trap... I think any plane that has spent time at LH Technik is fine to fly on, regardless of the type. Flying Allegiant would me more of a concern for me.


LH Technik are not better than any other major MRO.
https://globalnation.inquirer.net/4627/ ... ir-station

The mechanics are also not very literate in English, while this is essential for understanding work instructions and manuals, establishing clear maintenance reports and the written task hand-overs.
https://au.indeed.com/cmp/Lufthansa-Tec ... 20&sort=en
(Though this problem is not limited to LHT).
 
opticalilyushin
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:33 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
those planes shouldn't have a place in the European Union


A disappointing comment! If that was the case I guess you would want all AN-124s to be banned too?

The SSJ is a fantastic machine, I have flown on it a few times, and in my opinion it is more quiet and comfortable than an Embraer, way better than a Q400/CRJ, infact it's only really rivalled by the C-Series. Interjet have a large fleet of them, and in their first year operational reliability was at the same level as you would get with a fresh Airbus or Boeing. The feedback from the Cityjet crew is also very positive, in terms of performance and fuel efficiency.

It's unfortunate that people have this misconception that it is a Russian aircraft and that it is therefore unsafe. The Russian aerospace industry has produced some of the finest and toughest aircraft in the world.. look at Antonov for example- the unstallable AN-2, the AN-24- so popular even now they are still used worldwide, and the mighty 124/225, unbeaten to this day for payload capacity.

I look forward to flying on them with both CityJet / Brussels. For anyone who is still sceptical I can only advise you give it a try first, then make up your mind..you'll be pleasantly surprised.
 
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lollomz
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:30 pm

I hope they will have a full SN livery..... fingers crossed!
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shamrock350
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:41 pm

Good news, especially for Cityjet which has seen its scheduled network diminish considerably this year. Not sure what the future holds for them at the moment but it seems they're trying to keep these SSJ's in work with deals like this with SN and their own charter flying.
 
expert7700
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:05 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Very minor technical issues that had been fixed in a couple of days. A lot of aircraft, including western built ones, got similar issues during the startup phase. Once they have been fixed (which they are now) it's a perfectly reliable aircraft. The fact that it's a Russian design seems irrelevant to me.


Couple of days? Interjet has had NINE grounded due to cracks since the emergency inspection directive came out in Dec... 50% of their fleet and they are losing millions of dollars.

Someone else pointed out that the press releases were ambiguous because it said "all but the affected aircraft returned to service" but aircract can be singular or plural.

I was fortunate to find a route with an SSJ still on it, and last Sunday I flew with my family on one from LAP to MEX. Very comfortable and modern ride. Got photos from the cockpit and the captain confirmed they still had 9 grounded, and that flight crews were not able to work their normal schedules.
 
sf260
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:27 pm

lollomz wrote:
I hope they will have a full SN livery..... fingers crossed!

They will indeed get a full SN livery. Onboard product will also be in line with regular SN flights.
 
ek241yyz
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:38 pm

sf260 wrote:
lollomz wrote:
I hope they will have a full SN livery..... fingers crossed!

They will indeed get a full SN livery. Onboard product will also be in line with regular SN flights.


any word on routes?
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:10 pm

sevenair wrote:
LY777 wrote:
I wouldn't like to fly on one of these birds which are prone to technical issues


Interjet seem to think they have excellent dispatch reliability. I'm not sure what you mean.


Just adding to confirm;

http://aviationweek.com/blog/997-dispatch-reliability

Interjet received its eighth Sukhoi Superjet SSJ100 and is preparing it for entry into service. Its fleet of seven SSJ100s have a dispatch reliability of 99.7%, according to Andrea Di Fede, VP commercial services for SuperJet International
 
wezgulf3
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:59 pm

That article is a few years old, Interjet are flying 22 SSJ's at the moment. *ignore this!*
 
alfa164
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:42 am

Rajahdhani wrote:
http://aviationweek.com/blog/997-dispatch-reliability

Interjet received its eighth Sukhoi Superjet SSJ100 and is preparing it for entry into service. Its fleet of seven SSJ100s have a dispatch reliability of 99.7%, according to Andrea Di Fede, VP commercial services for SuperJet International

That quote is from June of 2014. Does that mean they were reliable for the first few weeks they were there?
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SR380
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:55 am

sf260 wrote:
lollomz wrote:
I hope they will have a full SN livery..... fingers crossed!

They will indeed get a full SN livery. Onboard product will also be in line with regular SN flights.


Do we know when they are supposed to take delivery?
 
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lollomz
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:29 pm

sf260 wrote:
lollomz wrote:
I hope they will have a full SN livery..... fingers crossed!

They will indeed get a full SN livery. Onboard product will also be in line with regular SN flights.


Great news, can't wait to see the first one! :-)
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Clydenairways
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:58 pm

SR380 wrote:
sf260 wrote:
lollomz wrote:
I hope they will have a full SN livery..... fingers crossed!

They will indeed get a full SN livery. Onboard product will also be in line with regular SN flights.


Do we know when they are supposed to take delivery?

The ATW article linked in the first post says April.
http://m.atwonline.com/leasing/brussels ... -superjets
 
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SR380
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:45 pm

Clydenairways wrote:
SR380 wrote:
sf260 wrote:
They will indeed get a full SN livery. Onboard product will also be in line with regular SN flights.


Do we know when they are supposed to take delivery?

The ATW article linked in the first post says April.
http://m.atwonline.com/leasing/brussels ... -superjets


Thanks!
 
sf260
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:20 pm

As for destinations, BMA is the only certainty as the A319 can't land there (yet). Other candidate cities are BHD, VIE, PRG, TXL, BHX, MAN.
A 4th will possibly join for S18.
 
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intrance
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:47 am

Just an anecdote here... I was flying into AMS recently and while monitoring the clearance delivery frequency, a Cityjet Avro RJ crew asked where their company SSJ was flying to, as it was also at AMS and I believe it's not a regular there. They got told of it's destination and after that the controller asked something that translates as "So, is it any good, this Superjet?". The Avro crew replied with "Nah, it's been a nightmare, quite a few problems.".

It's just anecdotal 'evidence' of course, but for those of you looking at company statements about how happy they are with the plane, or operational reliability, I would like to remind you that there are often a lot of defects and problems that still allow you to depart but can hinder the crew and limit the plane's use anyway. So, you know... it's not black or white.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:10 pm

Is there any word on where they are scheduled to fly them to? Looking at their online schedules, BMA seems to be Avro through to October, and other places seem to be A319.

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69bug
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:10 am

Re LH intervention to scupper the deal.

LH is not stupid and has shown that it will exercise its own judgement.. if not we would have seen more airbus types and lesser Boeings over the years. A two aircraft wet-lease is not the same as buying say 10 aircraft.

This would be a good way to have real operating experience and even if they do not plan to order the SSJ, having first-hand details of the operational performance of the aircraft will give them an added edge when it needs to negotiate with Airbus or Boeing.

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oldannyboy
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:39 am

SCQ83 wrote:
I wouldn't fly either a Putin-backed aircraft; those planes shouldn't have a place in the European Union. Lufthansa Group should not allow SN to make this.


What a truly sorry, sad, petty little comment! Ridiculous!

...people could easily bark back saying they wouldn't like to fly a Trump-backed American jet...
 
sevenair
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:59 am

Hmmm well one things for certain that is the ageing Avros won't be without their fair share of issues.
 
debonair
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:06 am

sf260 wrote:
As for destinations, BMA is the only certainty as the A319 can't land there (yet).


Isn't Brussels Airlines operating DASH8-Q400 on lease from flybe.?! Those props could take over the route to BMA!
 
voodoo
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:26 pm

So does anyone have any idea what routes Brussels will put the SSJs on?
In case a.netters are interested in booking.
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Paolo92
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:50 pm

The next SSJ95 for CityJet, first one to go to Brussels, appears to be fully painted now (in full SN livery).
Looks like it's MSN 95105 - test reg I-PDVX
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Bostrom
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:07 pm

debonair wrote:
sf260 wrote:
As for destinations, BMA is the only certainty as the A319 can't land there (yet).


Isn't Brussels Airlines operating DASH8-Q400 on lease from flybe.?! Those props could take over the route to BMA!


But it would mean a drop in capacity. And maybe a longer journey meaning that Brussels Airlines would lose its "travel time advantage" over SAS on the route.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:08 pm

voodoo wrote:
So does anyone have any idea what routes Brussels will put the SSJs on?
In case a.netters are interested in booking.


As others have said, the route to Stockholm-Bromma (BMA) will probably be the main route for the SSJs.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:45 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
Is there any word on where they are scheduled to fly them to? Looking at their online schedules, BMA seems to be Avro through to October, and other places seem to be A319.

voodoo wrote:
So does anyone have any idea what routes Brussels will put the SSJs on?
In case a.netters are interested in booking.

We're starting to get an answer:
brussels airlines in last week’s schedule update filed planned Sukhoi SuperJet SSJ100 operation, leased from CityJet. The SuperJet service is currently scheduled from 26MAR17 to 03JUN17, gradually operating on following routes.

Brussels – Basel/Mulhouse
Brussels – Berlin Tegel
Brussels – Birmingham
Brussels – Bologna
Brussels – Bordeaux
Brussels – Copenhagen
Brussels – Edinburgh
Brussels – Geneva
Brussels – Gothenburg
Brussels – Hamburg
Brussels – Krakow
Brussels – Milan Linate
Brussels – Milan Malpensa
Brussels – Nice
Brussels – Prague
Brussels – Venice
Brussels – Vienna
Brussels – Warsaw


Source: http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... on-in-s17/

sf260 wrote:
As for destinations, BMA is the only certainty as the A319 can't land there (yet).

Bostrom wrote:
As others have said, the route to Stockholm-Bromma (BMA) will probably be the main route for the SSJs.

Interestingly Bromma is conspicuously absent from the list of destinations.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
Bostrom
Posts: 876
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Brussels Airlines to wet-lease Superjets from CityJet

Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:15 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
Interestingly Bromma is conspicuously absent from the list of destinations.

V/F


Interesting. I suppose that means Bromma might be the last stronghold of the Avros.

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