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ahj2000
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Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:37 pm

KGL-BOM is going to be 738 for an 8 hour flight! Longer than any of Copa's routes! I wonder if it is a misfile and was supposed to be 332/3...
Also, they are beginning HRE, 4w with CR2.
This airline is really interesting to watch :)
-Andrés Juánez
 
TC957
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:02 pm

According to Galileo GDS, KGL - BOM is 30 miles less than PTY - EZE.
So not quite longer than any of Copa's routes, but close !
 
AF022
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:23 pm

When i look at Amadeus, aircraft will sit on the ground for 12+ hours in BOM. Poor efficiency.
 
alyusuph
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:41 pm

This will be another long 737 flight from Africa. ET are already operating ADD - DEL with a 738.
I am not an Airbus or Boeing fan, just an aircraft fan
 
SonOfABeech
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:55 pm

KGL is pretty high up too, almost 5000 feet above sea level.

How sustainable is all this growth at Rwandair?
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:58 pm

Kenya Airways used to send a 737 to BOM as well. Pretty long route, but not too bad.

AF022 wrote:
When i look at Amadeus, aircraft will sit on the ground for 12+ hours in BOM. Poor efficiency.

Strange! Even the KQ 737 spent around 12 hours on the ground. I think it has to do with crew scheduling. Same crew operating return?
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Swadian
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:02 pm

They probably don't have the RSM demand to improve aircraft utilization. Must be the same crew as well.
 
AF022
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:55 pm

According to Airlineroute, Rwandair is making a lot of changes to their schedule. When i look at DXB flights in April, they spend 15 hours on the ground every day. I would bet this has more to do with connecting DXB and BOM to their new network. I doubt there is enought KGL-BOM/DXB traffic to support local traffic only. They need connections from other places.
Where is the A330 going?
 
TC957
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:08 pm

Rwandair were rumoured to be starting their LGW flight on 17 January already - they are leaving it pretty close then to formally launch it !
 
berari
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:55 pm

TC957 wrote:
Rwandair were rumoured to be starting their LGW flight on 17 January already - they are leaving it pretty close then to formally launch it !


Nothing is loaded through mid July

BawliBooch wrote:
Strange! Even the KQ 737 spent around 12 hours on the ground. I think it has to do with crew scheduling. Same crew operating return?


KQ sends two 737s per day to BOM, with each only having an hour on the ground. It appears that ET is eating KQ's lunch on the route to BOM and DEL, where we have seen ET increase capacity while that of KQ's dwindles. The ME3 are also a factor. I always expected to see KQ strong on routes to India, and they didn't succeed in DEL either. ET now does 77L and 763 to BOM daily, and two 738s to DEL which will turn into two 763s in coming months.

alyusuph wrote:
This will be another long 737 flight from Africa. ET are already operating ADD - DEL with a 738.


Not for long. Capacity increase coming on this route to 763s. CEO had expressed constraints about this route a while back.

AF022 wrote:
When i look at Amadeus, aircraft will sit on the ground for 12+ hours in BOM. Poor efficiency.


May seem poor, but a turnaround within hours may not allow for connectivity at KGL. Note that even ET started doing quick turnarounds in the last 5-6 years as they grew more and created a second bank and then a third bank at ADD. In early 2000s, ET had a single bank that spaned 0900-1330 with even regional flights being overnighters for crew (FAs will tell you that those were the days of luxury!) There are many examples like this that exist, including ET's European services, European airlines' flights into South Africa etc. Poor aircraft utilization, yes, but still makes sense.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:05 pm

berari wrote:
KQ sends two 737s per day to BOM, with each only having an hour on the ground.

Ok. I remember seeing a KQ 73G parked for extended hours in a remote stand in BOM.
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chiefnwa
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:08 pm

What about TK's DAR-IST flight? Looks like that is 3,358 miles.
 
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Polot
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:11 pm

SonOfABeech wrote:
How sustainable is all this growth at Rwandair?

Rwandair is government owned and unsurprisingly loses money. None of this is about making a sustainable commercial airline.
 
berari
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:51 pm

Polot wrote:
SonOfABeech wrote:
How sustainable is all this growth at Rwandair?

Rwandair is government owned and unsurprisingly loses money. None of this is about making a sustainable commercial airline.


Government owned, perhaps follows ET's model (its Chairman is ET's ex CEO.) It's still a fairly young airline and will take time to grow like many others. Privately owned airlines also lose money and keep getting $s pumped into their coffers by investors (look at Fastjet if we are keeping on the continent.)
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:18 pm

TC957 wrote:
According to Galileo GDS, KGL - BOM is 30 miles less than PTY - EZE.
So not quite longer than any of Copa's routes, but close !


PTY-MVD is even longer than PTY-EZE. That may occasionally run with a weight restriction on the return trip. For a while, an 88-seat 737-800 was doing EWR-CPH and later BOS-CPH.
 
787kq
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:15 am

I'm a fan of Rwanda and of Rwandair. They seem to be making reasonably progress but also may be headed down the road of having too many aircraft types in their small fleet. The addition of one A330-200 and a larger A330-300 seems strange: they should choose one. It could also be a money burner. On the positive side, they have a great hard product for their businesses class on the jumbos and Kigali is a great, though still undiscovered, destination where everything works. They may need stronger branding ala Air Fiji and emphasis on great service a la Singapore Airlines or Emirates to succeed.

The 737-800 on such a long route needs flatter seats.
 
ahj2000
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:57 am

787kq wrote:
I'm a fan of Rwanda and of Rwandair. They seem to be making reasonably progress but also may be headed down the road of having too many aircraft types in their small fleet. The addition of one A330-200 and a larger A330-300 seems strange: they should choose one. It could also be a money burner. On the positive side, they have a great hard product for their businesses class on the jumbos and Kigali is a great, though still undiscovered, destination where everything works. They may need stronger branding ala Air Fiji and emphasis on great service a la Singapore Airlines or Emirates to succeed.

The 737-800 on such a long route needs flatter seats.

They could use some standardization. Their odd mix of 333, 332, 738, 737, CR7, Q400, Q100 is odd. Plus they have one (1) 788 on order from a lessor and they have spoken of 359LR for a nonstop KGL-JFK. Its a bit confusing but is interesting to watch. I'm not sure a new 738 J seat is a good idea, but I could see a better branding. Its currently a bit...sterile.
-Andrés Juánez
 
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eastafspot
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:02 am

[/threeid]
AF022 wrote:
According to Airlineroute, Rwandair is making a lot of changes to their schedule. When i look at DXB flights in April, they spend 15 hours on the ground every day. I would bet this has more to do with connecting DXB and BOM to their new network.

Indeed, before it was a evening departure at Kigali for an arrival early morning in DXB with a normal turnaround to be back at Kigali before lunch time or, if via Mombasa, at noon!

AF022 wrote:
Where is the A330 going?

Every now and then, she carries troops for UN missions in Africa...

These routes, part of the expansion plan, are going to be considered in the next future:
KGL-EBB-LGW
KGL-ACC-LGW
KGL-DXB-CAN
Last edited by eastafspot on Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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eastafspot
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:06 am

chiefnwa wrote:
What about TK's DAR-IST flight? Looks like that is 3,358 miles.

TK is using a B739 with aux tanks on this route while RwandAir fly only 738 (with free wifi ;-) ) and 737 series
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
rukundo
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:01 pm

The 737-800 on such a long route needs flatter seats.
They could use some standardization. Their odd mix of 333, 332, 738, 737, CR7, Q400, Q100 is odd. Plus they have one (1) 788 on order from a lessor and they have spoken of 359LR for a nonstop KGL-JFK. Its a bit confusing but is interesting to watch. I'm not sure a new 738 J seat is a good idea, but I could see a better branding. Its currently a bit...sterile.


RwandAir's traffic : about 40% for transit, about 60% for point to point (2015)

The fleet on wiki is wrong. RwandAir dosen't have Q100 and its order for 787 was canceled. They have only one B737-800 in order (leased from ALC) that should arrive in May 2017.

A350 is planned not before 2019-2020, if they make an order.

New York, is in deed planned, Rwanda needs to get green light from FAA (Cat 1). Rwanda CAA has hired Wicks group to get Cat1, from FAA: https://twitter.com/RwandaCAA/status/795705254423756801

Flights could be operated via Abidjan. Abidjan is already served by RwandAir via Accra. Abidjan can handle flights to USA, since SAA made a request to start US flights from Abidjan. SAA has choosen Accra (taxes are lower & bigger point to point traffic) http://www.jeuneafrique.com/mag/255238/ ... t-dabidjan

A partnership with Air Cote d'Ivoire is in pipeline, maybe to help RwandAir to feed their US route, from Abidjan, with the Air Cote d'Ivoire regional network (Nigeria, Ghana, Senegal,...).

https://www.acturoutes.info/page.php?p=1&id=5202 (French)

But i agree NYC is too early, for RwandAir

According to Airlineroute, Rwandair is making a lot of changes to their schedule. When i look at DXB flights in April, they spend 15 hours on the ground every day. I would bet this has more to do with connecting DXB and BOM to their new network. I doubt there is enought KGL-BOM/DXB traffic to support local traffic only. They need connections from other places.
Where is the A330 going?


In deed, they will drop night stop to Accra, Abidjan, Lagos, Cotonou, Douala and Johannesburg. Flights will leave Kigali on the morning and back on the evening.

They will add overnight flights to Johannesburg, Entebbe, Nairobi, Dar Es Salaam, Lusaka and Harare, like KQ & ET are doing.

Conakry, Durban and Lilongwe should join the network, this year. Bamako, Khartoum and Abuja will be the next, but the main problem is the 5th freedoom rights, they need new BASA. Africans countries have closed airspace policy.

About Abuja : " Of course, Rwandair to Abuja, just got on board. This is a new route won and signed and sealed in Kigali on June 1, 2016"
http://www.nahcoaviance.com/MD_Speech.aspx

There is also this : Presumably, if demand on the route is strong, RwandAir may upgauge it to an A330. It is recalled that the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) awarded the carrier rights to serve Guangzhou via Mumbai in July last year. http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/ ... -b737-800s

A330s are mainly deployed to Accra, Lagos, Dubai, as well sometimes to Nairobi, Douala, Libreville, Cotonou and Johannesburg. They are still hiring pilots.

Expansion will also depend, what will be the partnership between RwandAir & Ethiopian (code shares,....). Ethiopian still planning to buy RwandAir stake (49%). Talks still ongoing. Ethiopian is doing great with Asky (the airline made its 1st profit, in 2016) and Malawian Airlines is quietly expanding, they will start Lilongwe Nairobi service from March 2017
Last edited by rukundo on Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
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c933103
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:11 pm

I think it is still shorter than the FRA-PNQ quite a bit which is also flown by 737?
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alyusuph
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:07 am

Polot wrote:
SonOfABeech wrote:
How sustainable is all this growth at Rwandair?

Rwandair is government owned and unsurprisingly loses money. None of this is about making a sustainable commercial airline.


This does not make sense in the airline commercial sense, but makes a lot sense in boosting the Rwandan economy. Rwanda is boosting its conference tourism, and for that to succeed they need connections, including by air rather than relying to competing Nairobi.

Tanzania seems to be taking the same approach, of using the airline (regardless of the losses) to boost tourism by allowing for:
1) direct point P2P tourism boosting flights which were not possible,
2) Opening up and linking the many other lowly visited tourism sites with the already popular ones (such as Kilimanjaro) through the revamped airline local connections
3) Plans to enhancing regional tourism by linking its national parks with other tourist destinations (in Zambia, South Africa, Zimbabwe, South Africa, Kenya, probably Seychelles, Comoros? and Morocco - where bilateral agreements have already been signed with the latter) .
4) Promoting the Dar es Salaam port by easily bringing in port customers from landlocked countries- Fastjet for instance really boosted the growth of Dar port to Zimbabwean customers - for instance, Dar inbound flights used to be fuller than outbound ones because Zimbabweans returned to their country driving cars received at Dar port. For the port reasons, I foresee TC flying to DRC, Burundi, Rwanda? Zimbabwe, Malawi, Zambia, Zimbabwe in the future when their CS-300 fleet is operational.
5) Generally promoting increased use of air travel and boosting economic growth at the expense of the airline - for instance Tanzania is currently having several airport development programmes at regional levels and the the new T3 at DAR, and the new international Terminal at ZNZ. The revamping of MWZ airport will lead to supporting Mwanza to become a regional business hub in the Lake Victorial zone, easily linking the city with Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi, Kenya, South Sudan, DRC- cross-linking with the MWZ port and local and future railway and gas as well as fuel pipes linkages planned.
6) Promoting Medical tourism (especially with Comoros and other neighbouring countries - in conjunction with current revamping of medical facilities and training in the country).
7) Promoting conference tourism (e.g the northern circuit of Arusha and kilimanjaro) where delegates can attend conferences and contribute to tourism.
To cut the long story short: Increasingly African countries are seeing airlines as contributors to the ""bigger picture"". African countries are investing in airlines not necessarily to make them profitable and sustainable in the short term, but for the airlines to contribute to the larger economic interests - and in turn will promote people moving from buses to flying in the future.and enhance economic development. Whether this is the best approach, that is a different discussion all together.
Finally, using Tanzania as a case study; never before has private airlines showcased how airline travel can contribute to economic development such as what Fastjet and Precision Air did. The boosting of the Dar port; for the tourism industry; conference tourism; medical tourism; the regional connections would never be the same without these two privately owned airlines. Let us hope the revamped National airlines Rwanda Airlines, Air Tanzania, Air Malawi etc - will live to their promise..
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rukundo
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:45 pm

RwandAir Kigali Mumbai service seems to work well. But no info about the yield, Mumbai is a low yield destination. The airline says that they plan to deploy A330, next month.

Popular Destination : Johannesburg (40%), Dar Es Salaam & Entebbe (30%)

Kigali might not be one of the regular tourist destinations attracting flight-loads of tourists everyday. But if the success of the recently launched flight of RwandAir, connecting Mumbai to the Rwanda capital, is any sign, times are changing.

“Almost 40 per cent of the passengers that we fly from India travel onwards to Johannesburg while another 30 per cent use our airline to go onwards to East Africa, Tanzania and Uganda,” says Ivan Mugisha, Country Manager, RwandAir. The flight was launched in April. Kigali is becoming popular as a Meeting, Incentives, Conferences and Exhibition (MICE) destination.


http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/spe ... 807618.ece
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:50 pm

Scheduling an 8 hour flight on a 738 seems like an admission that you don't expect ever to fill the airplane.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:45 pm

seabosdca wrote:
Scheduling an 8 hour flight on a 738 seems like an admission that you don't expect ever to fill the airplane.

Although not 738s, tell that to COPA of Panama
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:47 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
Although not 738s, tell that to COPA of Panama


That "not 738s" is important. An 8 hour flight isn't a problem for a properly configured 73G.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:42 pm

rukundo wrote:
RwandAir Kigali Mumbai service seems to work well. But no info about the yield, Mumbai is a low yield destination. The airline says that they plan to deploy A330, next month.

Popular Destination : Johannesburg (40%), Dar Es Salaam & Entebbe (30%)

Kigali might not be one of the regular tourist destinations attracting flight-loads of tourists everyday. But if the success of the recently launched flight of RwandAir, connecting Mumbai to the Rwanda capital, is any sign, times are changing.

“Almost 40 per cent of the passengers that we fly from India travel onwards to Johannesburg while another 30 per cent use our airline to go onwards to East Africa, Tanzania and Uganda,” says Ivan Mugisha, Country Manager, RwandAir. The flight was launched in April. Kigali is becoming popular as a Meeting, Incentives, Conferences and Exhibition (MICE) destination.


http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/spe ... 807618.ece

You can regularly price BOMKGL for around $400 roundtrip all in, which is about $150 each way for the carrier before taxes, for 14+ hours of flying. Incredibly low yield...
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usxguy
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:52 pm

What's interesting is that I think Copa is doing something different with some of their "long range" 737-800s with the super-Business class seats; I have flown CM a number of times to both SCL & EZE from PTY and those planes were absolutely packed. Was also shocked my seatmate on EZE-PTY at the window never got up to use the lav. In fact, not many did on that flight. The crew also only did 3 beverage services - 1 with each meal and then 1 in the middle.

I never thought I'd fly a 737 for *that* long, but the seat back tvs really made it tolerable.
xx
 
AF022
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Re: Rwandair to start Mumbai (longest 737 route?), Harare

Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:27 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
You can regularly price BOMKGL for around $400 roundtrip all in, which is about $150 each way for the carrier before taxes, for 14+ hours of flying. Incredibly low yield...


Rwandair clearly isn't interested in profits. Their fares cannot be supporting the airline. There was a recent article in the FT that hints that problems might be brewing. Get around the paywall by doing a google news search for Rwandair, and selecting the article "Weak Growth adds to Fears about Rwanda Transformation".

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