AIR MALTA
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Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:48 pm

A great article from Forbes about the concept and implementation of the BoB at BA that got to a rocky start this week (putting it mildly).

The article also explains why this might be a bad move from BA.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/douggollan/2017/01/13/british-airways-struggles-to-launch-buy-on-board-food-and-drinks/#6a0a988540de
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
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Ab345
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:30 pm

I can understand the financial problems that would make a move like this happen but I would expect more from BA. They are not a cheap airline not to mention last minute tickets although to be fair most of them aren't. I flew A3 a month ago on TXL ATH and for a 80 euro one way got a warm lunch (beef with rise), dessert , coffee and soft drinks.
 
LHRFlyer
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:35 pm

It's only been running two days so it's somewhat premature to jump to conclusions.

Issues around stocking levels will no doubt get ironed out quite quickly.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:41 pm

Moves like this rarely go well immediately.

The products themselves should sell themselves. Marks and Spencer are a brand that's deeply engrained in the British psyche, and a BoB scheme is the way the industry has been going for a long time now. I would rather buy something decent onboard than be stuck with a barely edible excuse for a sandwich and no other options.

What does need thought is where the line is drawn onboard regarding beverage service. Offering the first drink free might be a reasonable compromise (non-alcoholic).
 
DDR
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:42 pm

BOB can work, it just seems that BA didn't put enough thought into the process after reading the article. One (1) hot sandwich for an entire plane?
 
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caoimhin
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:43 pm

"The airline, as expected, has tried to put its best PR foot forward in launching the pay for food and drinks service. The airline has said it is responding to customer demand for a wider variety of better food..."


God bless 'em.

Really, the PR statements BA have released concerning cost-saving changes aren't very convincing, now are they? Same sort of thing as the changes to the Executive Club a few years ago: "We've listened to your feedback and have made the program even better."

My gut tells me that the conclusion of this piece, that BA risk their brand image, is correct. On the face of it, I'm not really much bothered if there is no complimentary food service on a quick hop between LHR and DUB. But I hadn't considered the example of the F passenger who will arrive in LHR from the US, take a domestic connecting flight to Scotland, and be required to pay should s/he want a bottle of water. If I paid that fare, I'd be frustrated.

The operational challenges of implementing the revised program don't seem too onerous. I'm sure they'll iron out those details as crew become more experienced with the new procedures. The bigger concern for me is the perceived value of a BA ticket if the "little things" are trimmed back.
 
LHRFlyer
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:51 pm

caoimhin wrote:
"The airline, as expected, has tried to put its best PR foot forward in launching the pay for food and drinks service. The airline has said it is responding to customer demand for a wider variety of better food..."


God bless 'em.

Really, the PR statements BA have released concerning cost-saving changes aren't very convincing, now are they? Same sort of thing as the changes to the Executive Club a few years ago: "We've listened to your feedback and have made the program even better."

My gut tells me that the conclusion of this piece, that BA risk their brand image, is correct. On the face of it, I'm not really much bothered if there is no complimentary food service on a quick hop between LHR and DUB. But I hadn't considered the example of the F passenger who will arrive in LHR from the US, take a domestic connecting flight to Scotland, and be required to pay should s/he want a bottle of water. If I paid that fare, I'd be frustrated.


BA is introducing Club Europe on U.K. Domestic routes later this year (probably late March) so connecting F/J passengers will get a much better offer than before.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:29 am

I don't know why EU carriers bother with free catering in Y anymore; the passengers could not be more clear as to their preference.
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Travelmanager
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:31 am

LHRFlyer wrote:
It's only been running two days so it's somewhat premature to jump to conclusions.

Issues around stocking levels will no doubt get ironed out quite quickly.


No doubt. But one of the points of the article was that the damage to the brand could stick around for a long time. Even with the introduction of J on domestic routes later this year, a frequent flyer who flies on relatively expensive coach fares may decide that BA just doesn't present enough value anymore.
 
MiddleEastMike
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:40 am

What constitutes as 'Europe' too? And where do they draw the line?

Moscow, (3hr30) is technically in Europe could be classed as a BOB route, but Morocco/Tunisia 2hr30) aren't in Europe!how does one define this too?
International Man of Mystery
 
grbauc
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:47 am

Channex757 wrote:
Moves like this rarely go well immediately.

The products themselves should sell themselves. Marks and Spencer are a brand that's deeply engrained in the British psyche, and a BoB scheme is the way the industry has been going for a long time now. I would rather buy something decent onboard than be stuck with a barely edible excuse for a sandwich and no other options.
I agree. Free or prescribed to be free food is not always free. Sometimes it gives back for hours and hours. Tongue in cheek In coach I have no problem paying for good choices.

What does need thought is where the line is drawn onboard regarding beverage service. Offering the first drink free might be a reasonable compromise (non-alcoholic).
 
toobz
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:43 am

MiddleEastMike wrote:
What constitutes as 'Europe' too? And where do they draw the line?

Moscow, (3hr30) is technically in Europe could be classed as a BOB route, but Morocco/Tunisia 2hr30) aren't in Europe!how does one define this too?


Well 6hr flight to Europe from NYC gets a meal. While one to hnl will not.
 
Andy33
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:53 am

MiddleEastMike wrote:
What constitutes as 'Europe' too? And where do they draw the line?

Moscow, (3hr30) is technically in Europe could be classed as a BOB route, but Morocco/Tunisia 2hr30) aren't in Europe!how does one define this too?


That's very easy to answer. The products have different names. For flights within what BA defines as Europe, the economy cabin class is called EuroTraveller. For ones defined as outside Europe, the cabin class is called WorldTraveller. This appears on BA websites before booking, on all confirmation emails, e-ticket receipts, boarding passes etc. Now it is fair to say that if you book through an online travel agency this information may not appear at the time of booking, though some of them manage it just fine.
For your specific places - Moscow has WorldTraveller, Morocco (and Algeria, BA don't fly to Tunisia) are EuroTraveller.
Another way is to look at aircraft type - if this shows as A318, A380, 747, 777 or 787 it will be WorldTraveller (except for one 777 to be used for a return trip to arid from Madrid this summer in otherwise dead time). If it shows as A319, A320 or 767 it will be EuroTraveller. A321s could be either as there is a subfleet with Club World (business) and World Traveller seating and onboard service. Currently Moscow is serviced by this subfleet.
 
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Rookie87
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:15 am

Seems like a summary of complaints against BA about....changes.

Someone posted above how he got a lot for 80 euros and it makes so much sense that a million dollar aircraft requiring thousands of kilos of fuel, with two highly trained pilots, crew, ground staff etc...yes so much sense right there...

Anyways, BA didn't roll out the BOB well or maybe people are looking for bad press against BA. I see US crew struggling with catering issues one way or another so not too surprising that they'd easily find anything negative to write about regarding this.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:48 am

In my opinion, BA will always have higher costs due to being based at LHR. If they cut out the little things like this that make them better than Ryanair or Easyjet they will just lose more market share.
 
MiddleEastMike
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:12 am

Andy33 wrote:
MiddleEastMike wrote:
What constitutes as 'Europe' too? And where do they draw the line?

Moscow, (3hr30) is technically in Europe could be classed as a BOB route, but Morocco/Tunisia 2hr30) aren't in Europe!how does one define this too?


That's very easy to answer. The products have different names. For flights within what BA defines as Europe, the economy cabin class is called EuroTraveller. For ones defined as outside Europe, the cabin class is called WorldTraveller. This appears on BA websites before booking, on all confirmation emails, e-ticket receipts, boarding passes etc. Now it is fair to say that if you book through an online travel agency this information may not appear at the time of booking, though some of them manage it just fine.
For your specific places - Moscow has WorldTraveller, Morocco (and Algeria, BA don't fly to Tunisia) are EuroTraveller.
Another way is to look at aircraft type - if this shows as A318, A380, 747, 777 or 787 it will be WorldTraveller (except for one 777 to be used for a return trip to arid from Madrid this summer in otherwise dead time). If it shows as A319, A320 or 767 it will be EuroTraveller. A321s could be either as there is a subfleet with Club World (business) and World Traveller seating and onboard service. Currently Moscow is serviced by this subfleet.


Thanks for the reply mate.

I normally use BA to get me from LHR-LBA When I go home to visit family from AUH. I never really pay much attention to them, after having a few crap trips with them. Sadly with this whole fiasco it's doing their reputation no good, and their sprinting, and leading, in the race to the bottom!
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LJ
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:19 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
I don't know why EU carriers bother with free catering in Y anymore; the passengers could not be more clear as to their preference.


The company I work for pays considerably more for an AMS-LHR flight than those rock bottom fares which are published. For this reason my company expects that we get at least a free cup of coffee (or other non-alcoholic drink). This policy always excluded the LCC from the travel policy and thus BA didn't compete for our business with LCCs. Due to their new policy we now have to consider LCCs in the fare comparison (meeting the flexibility we need). I've no doubt BA will loose this and thus wouldn't be surprised to read a change in our travel policy that LCCs are allowed on routes where no airline is offering a free cup of coffee (note: our travel policy forbids business class travel on flights with a block time of 6 hours of less, unless you're member of the board of directors). I know that other companies have similar policies, thus this policy may drive away your high yielding Y class passengers. Moreover, as stated in the article, some airlines provide their high yielding Y class passengers and/or top tier frequent flyers with a free drink (nobody cares about the meal, it's the free non-alcoholic drink one expects). This policy is much better.
 
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:02 am

LHRFlyer wrote:
connecting F/J passengers will get a much better offer than before.

Unless they adopt empty neighbouring seat then they will effect just be going back to having the free food and drink they had before. J service on a 55 min flight can be nothing special with 5 crew on an a full A321. With most peak domestics absolutely rammed reducing capacity would seem ridiculous.
 
TC957
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:31 am

BA should be proud to be different from all the LCC's and not be like them for on-board service but still have fares higher in nearly all cases. Terrible move and I hope it comes back to bite them hard.
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:10 am

I used to work for a big fast food chain in London and the cost of a cup of cofee/tea was between 15p and 22p, plus the labour costs that were more tricky to estimate, but the consensus was that the total cost per cuppa was never higher than 50p.

British Airways would purchase tea, coffee, milk, sugar and cups at a heavily discounted price so I would imagine the non-labour costs are similar. And the rent and labour costs.. well, cup of coffee or no cup of coffee BA have to pay for the plane and the cabin crew have to be there for operative and safety reasons anyway so I'm not sure if these costs should be added to that of an onboard cuppa.

So 22 pence. This is probably what BA are saving by not offering a free coffee or tea, and this is the amount of money that "might" make some people think flying with them is no longer worthy.

If on top of this, they introduce what IBERIA just did, charging for choosing a seat or being assigned a middle seat by default, then I don't think I will even look at what they offer when I'm booking a flight. If I'm going to fly low cost, I might as well do it with the real low cost guys.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:13 am

I don't think removing food is a big deal, but I am against removing free coffee/tea/water.

Free snacks in intra-European flights are usually crap anyway, and many people now are more health-concious with sugar, diet requirements, etc. So not a big deal.

However coffee, tea and water is kind of an universal thing (everybody drinks at least one of those three) and it should not cost them a lot to keep it for free on board.
 
BHXLOVER
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:17 am

Let us hope feedback from this forum gets back to BA. Giving a free tea, coffee or bottle of water would only cost them pennies, when these are bought by them in bulk. But it means much more to their customers than the few pence spent.
 
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Ab345
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:22 am

Rookie87 wrote:
Seems like a summary of complaints against BA about....changes.

Someone posted above how he got a lot for 80 euros and it makes so much sense that a million dollar aircraft requiring thousands of kilos of fuel, with two highly trained pilots, crew, ground staff etc...yes so much sense right there...

Anyways, BA didn't roll out the BOB well or maybe people are looking for bad press against BA. I see US crew struggling with catering issues one way or another so not too surprising that they'd easily find anything negative to write about regarding this.


Yeah that was me. I actually meant that I found the price cheap for the type service I was getting. Last time I checked A3 is profitable so I think they have taked care of the cost of training pilots and crew :white: If price is the driving power in buying a ticket why would I pay the same or more to travel on BA and having to pay for on board service considering this is a full service airline? Used to be there were 2 groups: Full service with higher prices and Low cost with cheap prices but no/little service not to mention they were flying to smaller airports.

I can understand why competition would make an airline like BA start charging but unless they make their prices somewhat more attractive I wouldn't fly them (given a choise of course) when I can get full service with a competitor. But again that's just me :)

I.e...I tried a dummy booking for ATH LHR (i m based in ATH for now) , and I found A3 for 79 euros and BA for 82. Not a bad price for both of them actually, but considering I m going to get full service on A3 it will make me choose them. Simple as that
 
SCQ83
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:25 am

BHXLOVER wrote:
Let us hope feedback from this forum gets back to BA. Giving a free tea, coffee or bottle of water would only cost them pennies, when these are bought by them in bulk. But it means much more to their customers than the few pence spent.


It is probably not about the cost, but about the revenue. If that coffee cost them 30p but they sell it for 3.00 GBP, that is 2.70 GBP gain (or a 3.00 GBP gain over providing it free, which would mean those 30p are a cost). If they sell only 20 coffees per flight, that is an additional 60 GBP per flight.
 
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Rookie87
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:35 am

Ab345 wrote:
Rookie87 wrote:
Seems like a summary of complaints against BA about....changes.

Someone posted above how he got a lot for 80 euros and it makes so much sense that a million dollar aircraft requiring thousands of kilos of fuel, with two highly trained pilots, crew, ground staff etc...yes so much sense right there...

Anyways, BA didn't roll out the BOB well or maybe people are looking for bad press against BA. I see US crew struggling with catering issues one way or another so not too surprising that they'd easily find anything negative to write about regarding this.


Yeah that was me. I actually meant that I found the price cheap for the type service I was getting. Last time I checked A3 is profitable so I think they have taked care of the cost of training pilots and crew :white: If price is the driving power in buying a ticket why would I pay the same or more to travel on BA and having to pay for on board service considering this is a full service airline? Used to be there were 2 groups: Full service with higher prices and Low cost with cheap prices but no/little service not to mention they were flying to smaller airports.

I can understand why competition would make an airline like BA start charging but unless they make their prices somewhat more attractive I wouldn't fly them (given a choise of course) when I can get full service with a competitor. But again that's just me :)

I.e...I tried a dummy booking for ATH LHR (i m based in ATH for now) , and I found A3 for 79 euros and BA for 82. Not a bad price for both of them actually, but considering I m going to get full service on A3 it will make me choose them. Simple as that



Ha ha I giggled reading your response. I agree with you there. Why pay more for less service, amenities etc.
I'm just amazed at how cheap these tickets can be BUT they probably recoup on other flights throughout their system.
Either way, BA's public persona has been sliding down from what I'm seeing on here, what's being posted and such. A few things are "normal" to me regarding cut backs since the US went through much if not all of that to some extent so no news for me other than BA's fall from grace
 
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Ab345
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:54 am

Rookie87 wrote:
Ab345 wrote:
Rookie87 wrote:
Seems like a summary of complaints against BA about....changes.

Someone posted above how he got a lot for 80 euros and it makes so much sense that a million dollar aircraft requiring thousands of kilos of fuel, with two highly trained pilots, crew, ground staff etc...yes so much sense right there...

Anyways, BA didn't roll out the BOB well or maybe people are looking for bad press against BA. I see US crew struggling with catering issues one way or another so not too surprising that they'd easily find anything negative to write about regarding this.


Yeah that was me. I actually meant that I found the price cheap for the type service I was getting. Last time I checked A3 is profitable so I think they have taked care of the cost of training pilots and crew :white: If price is the driving power in buying a ticket why would I pay the same or more to travel on BA and having to pay for on board service considering this is a full service airline? Used to be there were 2 groups: Full service with higher prices and Low cost with cheap prices but no/little service not to mention they were flying to smaller airports.

I can understand why competition would make an airline like BA start charging but unless they make their prices somewhat more attractive I wouldn't fly them (given a choise of course) when I can get full service with a competitor. But again that's just me :)

I.e...I tried a dummy booking for ATH LHR (i m based in ATH for now) , and I found A3 for 79 euros and BA for 82. Not a bad price for both of them actually, but considering I m going to get full service on A3 it will make me choose them. Simple as that



Ha ha I giggled reading your response. I agree with you there. Why pay more for less service, amenities etc.
I'm just amazed at how cheap these tickets can be BUT they probably recoup on other flights throughout their system.
Either way, BA's public persona has been sliding down from what I'm seeing on here, what's being posted and such. A few things are "normal" to me regarding cut backs since the US went through much if not all of that to some extent so no news for me other than BA's fall from grace



Exactly. My initial point anyway is that I d never expect to get a British Airways service for a Ryanair price, but I m most certainly not willing to pay a a British airways price for a Ryanair service :D

The airlines in the States I think went through a series of problems beginning with 9/11 and bookending it with the financial meltdown, but at least as far as I can remember they all at same point started charging for everything and in the end they had to merge. It is a different market place though
 
TeamintheSky
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:17 am

SCQ83 wrote:
I don't think removing food is a big deal, but I am against removing free coffee/tea/water.

Free snacks in intra-European flights are usually crap anyway, and many people now are more health-concious with sugar, diet requirements, etc. So not a big deal.

However coffee, tea and water is kind of an universal thing (everybody drinks at least one of those three) and it should not cost them a lot to keep it for free on board.


Absolutely agree. I took one of the first BoB services on Wednesday to Edinburgh. It was for work, and the flight cost £279 roundtrip. While not really "expensive," I think it is absolutely shameful to be charged £2.30 for a cup of coffee. While you get to fly from Heathrow and I get first class lounge access because I am Emerald, the service isn't that much better and easyJet would have only cost £120 roundtrip... I am hoping that BA will at least go back to serving tea/coffee/water.

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shankly
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:19 am

First World Problem

2hrs without a cuppa and a sarnie is hardly the edge of human endurance
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jmmadrid
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:35 am

SCQ83 wrote:

It is probably not about the cost, but about the revenue. If that coffee cost them 30p but they sell it for 3.00 GBP, that is 2.70 GBP gain (or a 3.00 GBP gain over providing it free, which would mean those 30p are a cost). If they sell only 20 coffees per flight, that is an additional 60 GBP per flight.


You're right, but if they lose JUST ONE passenger due to this policy, there go your 60 GBP savings.

That's assuming that lost passenger would have paid only 60 GPB, which is unrealistic given BA's fares. Normally, they would've paid more plus don't forget the return ticket that also needs to be added to the missed revenue.

Penny pinching is a very very dangerous approach to business.
 
VCy
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:38 am

Personally I used to travel with BA a few times a year on their LCA sector which is around 5 hours. 5 hours is not that short for BOB in my opinion. Surely there are much longer routes in the world and BA's network but that doesn't stop this route from being fairly long, especially with no PTVs. Now, i don't see the difference between BA and Easyjet Monarch Cobalt etc.
In contrast, A3 provides a drink service around 4 times during the whole flight and a hot meal service.
 
AIR MALTA
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:25 pm

BA is going to alieante its corporate high fares frequent travelers. I am one of those based in Europe. My flights to London cost averagely £300 and those to South Africa £1600 all in Y and at a very short notice. For that price it is just a disgrace to ask your Gold customer to pay for a G&T that was free previously. We are talking about a full service airline here.

Even if you think that can go without a drink and a snack on LHR-CDG flight, it was always a nice gesture and a relief after a day of work and comluting to LHR, just to sit back, relax and enjoy the service.

Now what we have is a service that might or might not reach you. If it reaches you you might not even get what you asked for (they have already run out of Bombay on of the flights. So instead of relaxing, you have now this little but of an additional waiting and stress in order to get served. No what I call a premium service. Add to that all the little cuts done in Y longhaul and then other options like AF, KL, LH or even AZ become more appealing.
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
redroo
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:40 pm

"never expect to get a British Airways service for a Ryanair price, but I m most certainly not willing to pay a a British airways price for a Ryanair service" +1

And that is the problem with BA now. Why pay a significant premium for a ryanair/easyjet service?
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:45 pm

People will get used to it. Like with everything, people dislike change and will moan extensively about it and then after a few months all will be well. To be fair, the M&S offering of buy on board food is a hell of a lot nicer and a larger range than what was offered previously. A packet of nuts or very small pack of crisps and a cup of water was the Euro Traveller on board service for some flights. I hardly call that an excellent complimentary offering.

I somehow doubt it will annoy frequent flyers. If your company insists you fly Euro Traveller, there is usually availability in Club Europe to upgrade with Avios so if you really want the full service you can use your points to fly up front and get all the trimmings. The Club product is also being invested in so it should get even better. Once it's rolled out domestically it will also become an option for people to use with Avios. Speaking of Avios, you can pay for your food with them too, so technically you can still eat free.

Aer Lingus also attempt to offer a good quality range of buy on board food and are quite successful with it. British Airways will be successful with it also.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
AIR MALTA
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:07 pm

I won't get used to it as long as I have better options that I can fly with like AF or KL. Better give the companies £1600 to fly diwn to JNB to AF that still has pretzels with the first drink, cheese and crackers with the main meal, generous food before landing and eyeshades. Upgrading with AF is easier. I have double upgraded twice this year from Y to J with only 25.000 points. You can't do that with BA.
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
airbazar
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:23 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
I don't know why EU carriers bother with free catering in Y anymore; the passengers could not be more clear as to their preference.

Agree 100%. Not just the EU carriers but any carrier on any route that is less than 4 hours or doesn't operate during a typical meal time. For example, every TATL flight departing after 9PM should do away with dinner service. Another example, last month I flew with LH, LHR-MUC. The flight departed at 1:50p and arrived at 4:30p, and they served a sandwich and drinks. Why? Why is that even necessary? I don't get it. It's not only unnecessary but for those of us who were connecting from the TATL red-eye and wanted to sleep/rest a little more, the commotion from the "food service" was disturbing and annoying.
 
VCy
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:32 pm

airbazar wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
I don't know why EU carriers bother with free catering in Y anymore; the passengers could not be more clear as to their preference.

Agree 100%. Not just the EU carriers but any carrier on any route that is less than 4 hours or doesn't operate during a typical meal time. For example, every TATL flight departing after 9PM should do away with dinner service. Another example, last month I flew with LH, LHR-MUC. The flight departed at 1:50p and arrived at 4:30p, and they served a sandwich and drinks. Why? Why is that even necessary? I don't get it. It's not only unnecessary but for those of us who were connecting from the TATL red-eye and wanted to sleep/rest a little more, the commotion from the "food service" was disturbing and annoying.


I see what you mean but to be honest this is what makes LH stand out from the crowd ( as well as other LH group airlines) amongst others. They are amongst the few that did not fall to "low cost" standards.
 
vv701
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:57 pm

When discussing the cost (and profit) of a cup of coffee or other non-alcoholic drink served in the air and comparing it with the cost of the same in a fast food chain or other land based facility posters have overlooked an important cost difference. All seem to have forgotten the weight of fluids and the cost of getting and then keeping them in the air. Indeed I suspect the almost certain reduced consumption in a 'BoB' situation compared to a 'drink free of charge' situation would reduce consumption enough to save sufficient aviation fuel to be a worthwhile cost saving for the airline.

How many of us would reject the offer of a 'free' something - like a drink - when we otherwise would not buy it? Is there not some similarity in reducing the take-off weight and increasing the efficiency of an aircraft by switching its construction from heavy metal to lighter composites and reducing its take-off weight by lowering the volume of fluids loaded on every flight? Could BA be more interested in this almost certain cost saving then making a few pence profit on a cup of something? Would they not be most pleased if on-board consumption of the in-flight drink they provide consistently falls to a very low level? Is not their major challenge to get the on-bard drink levels at the right level to meet the reduced demand?
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:57 pm

airbazar wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
I don't know why EU carriers bother with free catering in Y anymore; the passengers could not be more clear as to their preference.

Agree 100%. Not just the EU carriers but any carrier on any route that is less than 4 hours or doesn't operate during a typical meal time. For example, every TATL flight departing after 9PM should do away with dinner service. Another example, last month I flew with LH, LHR-MUC. The flight departed at 1:50p and arrived at 4:30p, and they served a sandwich and drinks. Why? Why is that even necessary? I don't get it. It's not only unnecessary but for those of us who were connecting from the TATL red-eye and wanted to sleep/rest a little more, the commotion from the "food service" was disturbing and annoying.


Sorry Airbazar but you cannot speak for all other passengers. That sandwich meant nothing to you, but I'm sure many other passengers appreciated it.

In regards to the "commotion" from the food service, I've got bad news for you: BoB produces the same or even more disturbance than traditional service, because the transactions take longer, passengers ask more questions, and in many cases the crew need to go back to the gallery to collect warm items, etc. Fly just ONE sector with a low cost and you'll see what I mean.

On top of that, BA might think that now that people have to pay for everything, it might be a good idea to pass the trolley through the cabin more than once (ala Ryanair), as opposed to what BA crews did before, serve you your drink and crisps and disappear for the rest of the flight.
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:09 pm

vv701 wrote:
When discussing the cost (and profit) of a cup of coffee or other non-alcoholic drink served in the air and comparing it with the cost of the same in a fast food chain or other land based facility posters have overlooked an important cost difference. All seem to have forgotten the weight of fluids and the cost of getting and then keeping them in the air. Indeed I suspect the almost certain reduced consumption in a 'BoB' situation compared to a 'drink free of charge' situation would reduce consumption enough to save sufficient aviation fuel to be a worthwhile cost saving for the airline.

How many of us would reject the offer of a 'free' something - like a drink - when we otherwise would not buy it? Is there not some similarity in reducing the take-off weight and increasing the efficiency of an aircraft by switching its construction from heavy metal to lighter composites and reducing its take-off weight by lowering the volume of fluids loaded on every flight? Could BA be more interested in this almost certain cost saving then making a few pence profit on a cup of something? Would they not be most pleased if on-board consumption of the in-flight drink they provide consistently falls to a very low level? Is not their major challenge to get the on-bard drink levels at the right level to meet the reduced demand?


Sorry but that's penny pinching taken to an extreme.

You might also start charging for checked bags and introduce a new lower weight limit on the cabin luggage. Great idea. Reduced pax luggage allowance will obviously reduce your weight and your fuel consumption, but most importantly, they will reduce the number of people you get on board on each flight and your yields.

As many people have said before, do you want to be Ryanair? That's fine. Copy their business model. But then you should also charge what they charge, and say goodbye to the reputation of full service legacy that in most routes is your only strategic and commercial advantage. What we are seeing here is Ryanair service at British Airways prices.
 
TC957
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:34 pm

The expression penny-wise, pound-foolish, sums up BA in recent years and not just about their BoB " service "
 
by738
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:06 pm

AIR MALTA wrote:
I won't get used to it as long as I have better options that I can fly with like AF or KL. Better give the companies £1600 to fly diwn to JNB to AF that still has pretzels with the first drink, cheese and crackers with the main meal, generous food before landing and eyeshades. Upgrading with AF is easier. I have double upgraded twice this year from Y to J with only 25.000 points. You can't do that with BA.

But which group makes the most profit? Which in their eyes, what this is all about.
 
AIR MALTA
Topic Author
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:47 pm

by738 wrote:
AIR MALTA wrote:
I won't get used to it as long as I have better options that I can fly with like AF or KL. Better give the companies £1600 to fly diwn to JNB to AF that still has pretzels with the first drink, cheese and crackers with the main meal, generous food before landing and eyeshades. Upgrading with AF is easier. I have double upgraded twice this year from Y to J with only 25.000 points. You can't do that with BA.

But which group makes the most profit? Which in their eyes, what this is all about.

I am a customer not a shareholder or a manager. Bottom line I will go for the airline that gives more value for money. In this case BA falls waaaaaaay behind all other legacies now including AY and AA. And I al someone who has reached both Gold with Exec Club and Flying Blue and flying strictly in Y (Corporate Policy). So that's a lot of flying, jet lag, uncomfortable flights long haul. Starting 2015, I have seen BA's service decline at a slow pace. It was still bearable thanks to the crew and the G&T which was great after a day trip to London. But then things got worse cause I had so many à avions and never been able to upgrade to WTP because of availability. Air France in the meantime has improved its service both in SH and LH. They have smart cabins with headcovers. On certain routes they still serve hot options and I love the double upgrade option.

For CE, CW or F passengers it might not be a big deal but for us it is a huge deal. And as I intend never to buy anything from the BoB menu, I guess I won't have any interaction with CCs anymore which is sad. So the BA experience will be bland and boring.
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
GDB
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:05 pm

Of course running BA is just the same as running such a tremendous LCC like Vueling....
At least that's what our CEO seems to think, after all that's where he came from.
 
ba319-131
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:38 pm

I think this whole BOB thing @ BA has been badly through through.

If you look into it, the idea was to reduce wastage of uneaten food yet improve the offerings.

I am ok with the BOB for food, but they should have retained the free drinks element.

Looking at it now, a First Class passenger flying say LAX-EDI via LHR will now have to pay for water if they want it on the domestic leg. Seriously, how shocking is that?? - yes, CE is going to be introduced on domestics in due course, but it's not here yet.

Also, what about us Gold (and Silver) card holders who one way or another shell out several thousand pounds a year on travel, we have lovely (some) lounges with food of some kind and plenty of drinks to choose from, yet now we have to pay once on the plane, where is this loyalty to us?

I hope you get to hear about the complaints Cruz, because BA is not Vueling, passenger loyalty is hard fought these days with plenty of competition and you are just pissing off your loyal customers by being cheap.
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mariner
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:51 pm

AIR MALTA wrote:
The article also explains why this might be a bad move from BA.


I'm not sure that the writer of the article, Doug Gollan, can be considered completely objective here - LOL.

He's the author of a book called "Secrets of Selling to the Super Rich":

https://douggollan.com

And he runs a website for Private Aviation Travellers.

https://dgamazingexperiences.com/about/

"About DG Amazing Experiences

This website is a library of content for DG Amazing Experiences, an invitation-only e-newsletter for private aviation travelers"


The target market of his businesses is fairly elitist.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:07 pm

Presumably this is some sort of embryonic project aimed at downsizing BA's domestic and pan European short haul business into an actual loco model ? Maybe even just eventually call it Vueling or 'Go' perhaps? They've certainly made enough noise in recent times about not making enough money out of domestic services and how many LHR slots they could free up ?
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:33 pm

GDB wrote:
Of course running BA is just the same as running such a tremendous LCC like Vueling....
At least that's what our CEO seems to think, after all that's where he came from.

That mindset has to have some bearing on things.

Apparently BA are to re-launch Club World later this year, perhap the savings will go towards this. Concentrate on the middle and pointy end and to heck with the rest.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
Swadian
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:51 pm

This is the trend; this is the way it's going to be. All the EU airlines are going to end up with no complimentary meal service in Y, high-density A321s, etc.. But I do agree that they should offer coffee, tea, and water with no extra charge. Right now EU airlines are getting worse than AA. One could say they are already worse. If EU legacies get worse than NA legacies, people are just going to fly LCCs. Maybe they should emulate NA legacies rather than FR.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:04 pm

MiddleEastMike wrote:
What constitutes as 'Europe' too? And where do they draw the line?

Moscow, (3hr30) is technically in Europe could be classed as a BOB route, but Morocco/Tunisia 2hr30) aren't in Europe!how does one define this too?


If their narrow-bodies are any indication, I would suspect the remaining 767s and all narrow bodies other than those flying to Cairo and Tel Aviv (which have a product similar to the long-haul fleet). As for BOB, I expect that it will be here to stay as passengers want as little frills as possible, but then that puts legacies in competition with LCCs. Even Ryanair has a better seat pitch than some legacies (is Iberia really 28"/17" on its A320-family planes---which is smaller than Spirit Airlines?).
 
sevenair
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Re: Forbes: British Airways struggles with BoB

Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:05 pm

Perhaps they should have done a Virgin Australia type service by offering a complimentary drink but providing the option to purchase during an interim period. Guage response. Tweak the service and then remove the complimentary options.

I do not agree with those who say there will not be time. easyJet and Ryanair all have higher passenger to crew ratios and operate a lot of short busy sectors. When I was crew I think there was once on a Friday evening UK domestic when we ran out of time to serve all passengers.

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