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pnwpdx
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:05 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:38 am

BlatantEcho wrote:
I'm sad to report, as a long time Alaska booster, I'm jumping ship in 2018.

As my travel grows, Alaska's operational reliability (I am simply not willing to connect in SEA with Horizon) scares me.
Less emotionally, Alaska cutting ties with Delta, and now to a large extent, American, means I can't get to second tier cities east of the Rockies.
Add in mediocre international partners out of PDX (I flew paid Condor business this year, Icelandair a few times, and they underwhelmed), and I can't do it.

I'm moving all my spend to Delta. I'll be back to using the NRT/AMS flights, and will certainly try out the LHR.
Yes, I'll have to connect in SLC, MSP or ATL for some things - but I can't rely on Alaska anymore.

(I'll use AS for the PDX-OAK/SAN type stuff still).

I canceled my BofA Alaska card today, and will put my spend on other cards.

Part of me is sad.
Part of me is honestly mad.

MVP for ~8 years, Gold last 5 years and I'll hit 75k this year for the first time.
I put a lot of faith in Alaska, and I blindly would book them, at any price, to stay loyal.
I flew almost every non-stop in their system out of PDX.

I can't do it anymore.
Want to get to MSN, OKC, TPA, MIA, DEN, BDA, from PDX? Not easy on Alaska anymore.
Delta will get me there in one stop, plus I can get around the world easily.

I know no one at Alaska will care, but, I went out of my way to fly my staff and friends on Alaska.
I've got almost a million miles banked with them that I'll need to burn off.

Oh well, I'm sure Delta won't roll out the red carpet for me, but they can get me where I need to go.
Alaska used to be able to.
They can't anymore, so I'm switching teams :/


Welcome to the club! I've been a Delta guy since the Northwest era. Made the switch after the merger.

Honestly, I get so much crap from peers for going out of my way to fly Delta when we have a huge Alaska presence at PDX. But I have really enjoyed flying Delta because of their on time reliability (except this past April) and their In Flight Entertainment. Also, when I fly international, I am content with Delta's products and services. Delta has everything I need and they continually advance themselves with their technology.

I am a bit jealous of the love that Sea-Tac is getting from Delta because I wish we were getting more of it...
 
Wingtips56
Posts: 1294
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:26 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:36 pm

I like the weekly updates, and (being an occasional MFR user), including the rest of the state, not just PDX-centric.

So the UA MFR-LAX add is good for MFR, but probably will rule out AS/QX resuming service in that market, and keeping AA from adding a second trip and more. All of my miles are with AA and AS, so the UA add doesn't do much for me. Since OO (as UAx) left CEC, I don't use UA anymore.

As to "The Wild Rivers Coast" (Crescent City/Brookings), the CEC EAS contract will (pending final DOT approval) shift from KS to Contour, with CEC-OAK service instead of the current CEC-PDX service. It's of no use to me without connecting options, so I'll continue to cross over to MFR. I don't see that new service doing particularly well anyway.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
flyoregon
Posts: 784
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:34 am

 
jbpdx
Posts: 866
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:27 am

flyoregon wrote:


Good article. I especially liked the “Portland is underappreciated”. One correction: Portland metro is 3.2 million, No. 18 CSA, just behind Orlando. Not sure about the E175 making it to some of the cities mentioned. Priority adds should include BWI year round, FLL, BNA.

Alaska’s dominance in Portland was already growing, despite the temporary recent pullbacks at SkyWest and Horizon, as other carriers seem unwilling to compete and cut tail and run. Frontier is down to one daily departure (Denver), Spirit now has only one daily departure (Las Vegas). Even JetBlue has trimmed BOS and JFK.

Spirit
September 2016. 240
September 2017. 162

JetBlue
September 2016. 256
September 2017. 240

Southwest
September 2016. 2448
September 2017. 2370

Alaska
September 2016. 2100
September 2017. 2490

(# of total flights per month)
^
 
flyoregon
Posts: 784
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:25 pm

jbpdx wrote:
flyoregon wrote:


Good article. I especially liked the “Portland is underappreciated”. One correction: Portland metro is 3.2 million, No. 18 CSA, just behind Orlando. Not sure about the E175 making it to some of the cities mentioned. Priority adds should include BWI year round, FLL, BNA.

Alaska’s dominance in Portland was already growing, despite the temporary recent pullbacks at SkyWest and Horizon, as other carriers seem unwilling to compete and cut tail and run. Frontier is down to one daily departure (Denver), Spirit now has only one daily departure (Las Vegas). Even JetBlue has trimmed BOS and JFK.

Spirit
September 2016. 240
September 2017. 162

JetBlue
September 2016. 256
September 2017. 240

Southwest
September 2016. 2448
September 2017. 2370

Alaska
September 2016. 2100
September 2017. 2490

(# of total flights per month)


They're not wrong if going by MSA for population, but as most here can agree, CSA is more important in the industry. It's always been interesting to me that Denver is only a couple spots ahead of Portland on the CSA, but people act like it's this massive and sprawling city. I get it, it's in the middle of the country and an economic hub for the region. Don't get me wrong, I really like Denver, but Portland isn't some hokey little city like a lot of people assume.

It's always annoyed me that on Icelandair's website, they have this about Portland: "Portland is a rather small city, with about 560 thousand inhabitants, but approximately 2,5 million people live in the Portland metropolitan area (MSA). Located in the far west of the United States, it is close to the coast and about a three-hour-drive away from Seattle." Even there, it's treated like a place that's an afterthough, and for many airlines, it seems that way.

Anyway, back to topic, Alaska has a good opportunity to capitalize on the lack of interest from other airlines. So hopefully 2018 brings about more options either on Alaska or whoever. AS reliability seems to be taking a pretty good hit, so I hope they fix that quickly, but any new service is welcome.
 
ucdtim17
Posts: 621
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:38 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:33 pm

Expanding PDX is a nice idea for a world where AS has ample spare planes and pilots but it's a little bizarre to suggest now as AS is still shedding routes and frequencies at PDX. I'm sure they'll bottom out at some point (hopefully now) and resume growing again but they'll have to grow a bit to get back to where they were 6 months ago, much less beyond that.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6313
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:29 pm

BlatantEcho wrote:
I'm sad to report, as a long time Alaska booster, I'm jumping ship in 2018.

As my travel grows, Alaska's operational reliability (I am simply not willing to connect in SEA with Horizon) scares me.
Less emotionally, Alaska cutting ties with Delta, and now to a large extent, American, means I can't get to second tier cities east of the Rockies.
Add in mediocre international partners out of PDX (I flew paid Condor business this year, Icelandair a few times, and they underwhelmed), and I can't do it.

I'm moving all my spend to Delta. I'll be back to using the NRT/AMS flights, and will certainly try out the LHR.
Yes, I'll have to connect in SLC, MSP or ATL for some things - but I can't rely on Alaska anymore.

(I'll use AS for the PDX-OAK/SAN type stuff still).

I canceled my BofA Alaska card today, and will put my spend on other cards.

Part of me is sad.
Part of me is honestly mad.

MVP for ~8 years, Gold last 5 years and I'll hit 75k this year for the first time.
I put a lot of faith in Alaska, and I blindly would book them, at any price, to stay loyal.
I flew almost every non-stop in their system out of PDX.

I can't do it anymore.
Want to get to MSN, OKC, TPA, MIA, DEN, BDA, from PDX? Not easy on Alaska anymore.
Delta will get me there in one stop, plus I can get around the world easily.

I know no one at Alaska will care, but, I went out of my way to fly my staff and friends on Alaska.
I've got almost a million miles banked with them that I'll need to burn off.

Oh well, I'm sure Delta won't roll out the red carpet for me, but they can get me where I need to go.
Alaska used to be able to.
They can't anymore, so I'm switching teams :/


I understand your point. I'm a big AS fan too, but they've done some things that i find curious, especially breaking many domestic mileage ties with AA. I posted on their web page that is one of those decisions that bean counters make, but don't see the whole picture. It makes me less likely to go out of my way to fly AS in the future either. Want to get to GSP on AS or any partners? LFT maybe? Forget it.

What's even sillier is that if you fly internationally out of SEA on AA. Say you fly SEA-DFW-EZE. You earn AS miles for the AA DFW-EZE segment, but not SEA-DFW. How silly is that?
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6313
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:30 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
BlatantEcho wrote:
I'm sad to report, as a long time Alaska booster, I'm jumping ship in 2018.

As my travel grows, Alaska's operational reliability (I am simply not willing to connect in SEA with Horizon) scares me.
Less emotionally, Alaska cutting ties with Delta, and now to a large extent, American, means I can't get to second tier cities east of the Rockies.
Add in mediocre international partners out of PDX (I flew paid Condor business this year, Icelandair a few times, and they underwhelmed), and I can't do it.

I'm moving all my spend to Delta. I'll be back to using the NRT/AMS flights, and will certainly try out the LHR.
Yes, I'll have to connect in SLC, MSP or ATL for some things - but I can't rely on Alaska anymore.

(I'll use AS for the PDX-OAK/SAN type stuff still).

I canceled my BofA Alaska card today, and will put my spend on other cards.

Part of me is sad.
Part of me is honestly mad.

MVP for ~8 years, Gold last 5 years and I'll hit 75k this year for the first time.
I put a lot of faith in Alaska, and I blindly would book them, at any price, to stay loyal.
I flew almost every non-stop in their system out of PDX.

I can't do it anymore.
Want to get to MSN, OKC, TPA, MIA, DEN, BDA, from PDX? Not easy on Alaska anymore.
Delta will get me there in one stop, plus I can get around the world easily.

I know no one at Alaska will care, but, I went out of my way to fly my staff and friends on Alaska.
I've got almost a million miles banked with them that I'll need to burn off.

Oh well, I'm sure Delta won't roll out the red carpet for me, but they can get me where I need to go.
Alaska used to be able to.
They can't anymore, so I'm switching teams :/


I understand your point. I'm a big AS fan too, but they've done some things that i find curious, especially breaking domestic mileage ties with AA. I posted on their web page that is one of those decisions that bean counters make, but don't see the whole picture. It makes me less likely to go out of my way to fly AS in the future either. Want to get to GSP on AS or any partners? LFT maybe? Forget it.

What's even sillier is that if you fly internationally out of SEA on AA. Say you fly SEA-DFW-EZE. You earn AS miles for the AA DFW-EZE segment, but not SEA-DFW. How silly is that?
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5032
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:19 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
BlatantEcho wrote:
I'm sad to report, as a long time Alaska booster, I'm jumping ship in 2018.

As my travel grows, Alaska's operational reliability (I am simply not willing to connect in SEA with Horizon) scares me.
Less emotionally, Alaska cutting ties with Delta, and now to a large extent, American, means I can't get to second tier cities east of the Rockies.
Add in mediocre international partners out of PDX (I flew paid Condor business this year, Icelandair a few times, and they underwhelmed), and I can't do it.

I'm moving all my spend to Delta. I'll be back to using the NRT/AMS flights, and will certainly try out the LHR.
Yes, I'll have to connect in SLC, MSP or ATL for some things - but I can't rely on Alaska anymore.

(I'll use AS for the PDX-OAK/SAN type stuff still).

I canceled my BofA Alaska card today, and will put my spend on other cards.

Part of me is sad.
Part of me is honestly mad.

MVP for ~8 years, Gold last 5 years and I'll hit 75k this year for the first time.
I put a lot of faith in Alaska, and I blindly would book them, at any price, to stay loyal.
I flew almost every non-stop in their system out of PDX.

I can't do it anymore.
Want to get to MSN, OKC, TPA, MIA, DEN, BDA, from PDX? Not easy on Alaska anymore.
Delta will get me there in one stop, plus I can get around the world easily.

I know no one at Alaska will care, but, I went out of my way to fly my staff and friends on Alaska.
I've got almost a million miles banked with them that I'll need to burn off.

Oh well, I'm sure Delta won't roll out the red carpet for me, but they can get me where I need to go.
Alaska used to be able to.
They can't anymore, so I'm switching teams :/


I understand your point. I'm a big AS fan too, but they've done some things that i find curious, especially breaking many domestic mileage ties with AA. I posted on their web page that is one of those decisions that bean counters make, but don't see the whole picture. It makes me less likely to go out of my way to fly AS in the future either. Want to get to GSP on AS or any partners? LFT maybe? Forget it.

What's even sillier is that if you fly internationally out of SEA on AA. Say you fly SEA-DFW-EZE. You earn AS miles for the AA DFW-EZE segment, but not SEA-DFW. How silly is that?

I thought they had to end codeshare on hub to hub. Of course you could fly the AS segment SEA-DFW instead...
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6313
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:37 pm

32andBelow wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
BlatantEcho wrote:
I'm sad to report, as a long time Alaska booster, I'm jumping ship in 2018.

As my travel grows, Alaska's operational reliability (I am simply not willing to connect in SEA with Horizon) scares me.
Less emotionally, Alaska cutting ties with Delta, and now to a large extent, American, means I can't get to second tier cities east of the Rockies.
Add in mediocre international partners out of PDX (I flew paid Condor business this year, Icelandair a few times, and they underwhelmed), and I can't do it.

I'm moving all my spend to Delta. I'll be back to using the NRT/AMS flights, and will certainly try out the LHR.
Yes, I'll have to connect in SLC, MSP or ATL for some things - but I can't rely on Alaska anymore.

(I'll use AS for the PDX-OAK/SAN type stuff still).

I canceled my BofA Alaska card today, and will put my spend on other cards.

Part of me is sad.
Part of me is honestly mad.

MVP for ~8 years, Gold last 5 years and I'll hit 75k this year for the first time.
I put a lot of faith in Alaska, and I blindly would book them, at any price, to stay loyal.
I flew almost every non-stop in their system out of PDX.

I can't do it anymore.
Want to get to MSN, OKC, TPA, MIA, DEN, BDA, from PDX? Not easy on Alaska anymore.
Delta will get me there in one stop, plus I can get around the world easily.

I know no one at Alaska will care, but, I went out of my way to fly my staff and friends on Alaska.
I've got almost a million miles banked with them that I'll need to burn off.

Oh well, I'm sure Delta won't roll out the red carpet for me, but they can get me where I need to go.
Alaska used to be able to.
They can't anymore, so I'm switching teams :/


I understand your point. I'm a big AS fan too, but they've done some things that i find curious, especially breaking many domestic mileage ties with AA. I posted on their web page that is one of those decisions that bean counters make, but don't see the whole picture. It makes me less likely to go out of my way to fly AS in the future either. Want to get to GSP on AS or any partners? LFT maybe? Forget it.

What's even sillier is that if you fly internationally out of SEA on AA. Say you fly SEA-DFW-EZE. You earn AS miles for the AA DFW-EZE segment, but not SEA-DFW. How silly is that?

I thought they had to end codeshare on hub to hub. Of course you could fly the AS segment SEA-DFW instead...


Sure you can for a much higher air fare.
 
Chugach
Posts: 1341
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:04 pm

When I lived in ANC, the choice was easy...AS. Not other airline comes remotely close to the breadth of service AS offers at ANC.

Now that I’m in PDX, I’ve started to reconsider my options and have basically settled on something like this...

1. If AS serves the route nonstop from PDX, I’ll fly AS (assuming the price isn’t out of whack)

2. If there is nonstop service not on AS, I’ll fly that airline nonstop.

3. If a connection is required, I’ll give AS the right of first refusal but if prices or connection location are better than I’m not going to blindly stick with AS in that situation.

Considering about 3/4 of my travel spend is currently to Alaska (ANC/FAI/JNU) AS will still get a lot of money from me, but DL is an increasingly viable option from Alaska in situations where a connection is required (I.e. PDX-FAI).
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5032
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:40 pm

Chugach wrote:
When I lived in ANC, the choice was easy...AS. Not other airline comes remotely close to the breadth of service AS offers at ANC.

Now that I’m in PDX, I’ve started to reconsider my options and have basically settled on something like this...

1. If AS serves the route nonstop from PDX, I’ll fly AS (assuming the price isn’t out of whack)

2. If there is nonstop service not on AS, I’ll fly that airline nonstop.

3. If a connection is required, I’ll give AS the right of first refusal but if prices or connection location are better than I’m not going to blindly stick with AS in that situation.

Considering about 3/4 of my travel spend is currently to Alaska (ANC/FAI/JNU) AS will still get a lot of money from me, but DL is an increasingly viable option from Alaska in situations where a connection is required (I.e. PDX-FAI).

DL is becoming a good option from ANC these days. In the winter there are only a couple flights to SEA, but once you get there you can go wherever you want. In the Summer there are several more flight. We can go East to MSP. During busy times we can go to SLC or ATL. Also the product is just flat out better.
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:31 am

jbpdx wrote:
flyoregon wrote:


Good article. I especially liked the “Portland is underappreciated”. One correction: Portland metro is 3.2 million, No. 18 CSA, just behind Orlando. Not sure about the E175 making it to some of the cities mentioned. Priority adds should include BWI year round, FLL, BNA.


Recently, AS updated their timetable and it looks like ATL, BWI, MKE, and PHL are all becoming year-round service...

Also, I'm not sure why that article mentioned Tulsa and Memphis. They don't even serve those cities from SEA. I would see the following AS E175 routes within the next few years.

PDX-DEN
PDX-FAI
PDX-ICT
PDX-IND
PDX-OKC
PDX-BNA
PDX-MSY
PDX-SAT

That's just my opinion on what markets I think may have some potential. I'm not taking into account that the E175 may not be able to fly the distance between the two destinations...
 
flyoregon
Posts: 784
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:55 am

FA9295 wrote:
jbpdx wrote:
flyoregon wrote:


Good article. I especially liked the “Portland is underappreciated”. One correction: Portland metro is 3.2 million, No. 18 CSA, just behind Orlando. Not sure about the E175 making it to some of the cities mentioned. Priority adds should include BWI year round, FLL, BNA.


Recently, AS updated their timetable and it looks like ATL, BWI, MKE, and PHL are all becoming year-round service...

Also, I'm not sure why that article mentioned Tulsa and Memphis. They don't even serve those cities from SEA. I would see the following AS E175 routes within the next few years.

PDX-DEN
PDX-FAI
PDX-ICT
PDX-IND
PDX-OKC
PDX-BNA
PDX-MSY
PDX-SAT

That's just my opinion on what markets I think may have some potential. I'm not taking into account that the E175 may not be able to fly the distance between the two destinations...


Awesome to hear those routes are going year-round. Smart move. As for the list of routes you put together, as has been said many times, DEN... for heavens sake, bring that back! TPA/FLL mainline would be very welcome too.
 
BlatantEcho
Posts: 2132
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:11 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:11 pm

If Alaska had any brains, they would be flowing a lot more connections through PDX.

Yakima, Boise, Montana, even Bellingham.
Airport is less constrained, there is less competition and there is room for expansion.
That leaves them to price more seats out of SEA for O&D customers as well, which I'm sure doesn't hurt.

And while I hope they add all those above cities, and year round service is great.... the reality is that a lot of travels still can't get to major and minor cities on Alaska easily.

Miami FL, Madison WI, Albany NY, Nassau Bahamas, Traverse City MI, Columbus OH, Providence RI
Those are just some of the domestic cities I have to visit in 2018.
That's just domestic...

And Alaska can't help me.

Add in Bay Area stuff, Tampa FL, Oklahoma City, OK, Sheboygan, WI, Denver, CO and again, unless I connect in SEA (which I refuse to do at this point). I'm stuck.

Can't use AA and connect in DFW or ORD.
Can't use DL and connect in SLC or ATL or MSP.

So, no matter how many non-stops they add, without a midwest hub or something, I'm left hung out to dry.

I wish they add more connections to PDX, and I hope I can use more of them.
But for now, well, folks like myself who need to get around, have to look elsewhere :/
 
FLYKTPA
Posts: 454
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:56 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:09 pm

BlatantEcho wrote:
If Alaska had any brains, they would be flowing a lot more connections through PDX.

Yakima, Boise, Montana, even Bellingham.
Airport is less constrained, there is less competition and there is room for expansion.
That leaves them to price more seats out of SEA for O&D customers as well, which I'm sure doesn't hurt.

And while I hope they add all those above cities, and year round service is great.... the reality is that a lot of travels still can't get to major and minor cities on Alaska easily.

Miami FL, Madison WI, Albany NY, Nassau Bahamas, Traverse City MI, Columbus OH, Providence RI
Those are just some of the domestic cities I have to visit in 2018.
That's just domestic...

And Alaska can't help me.

Add in Bay Area stuff, Tampa FL, Oklahoma City, OK, Sheboygan, WI, Denver, CO and again, unless I connect in SEA (which I refuse to do at this point). I'm stuck.

Can't use AA and connect in DFW or ORD.
Can't use DL and connect in SLC or ATL or MSP.

So, no matter how many non-stops they add, without a midwest hub or something, I'm left hung out to dry.

I wish they add more connections to PDX, and I hope I can use more of them.
But for now, well, folks like myself who need to get around, have to look elsewhere :/

PDX-TPA hovers around 200 PPDEW. I know that TPA is working hard to add nonstop service in the market. 200 does seem like a low number for a flight that long. I assume connections would help fill it up.
Huge fan of Tampa International Airport
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5032
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:20 pm

BlatantEcho wrote:
If Alaska had any brains, they would be flowing a lot more connections through PDX.

Yakima, Boise, Montana, even Bellingham.
Airport is less constrained, there is less competition and there is room for expansion.
That leaves them to price more seats out of SEA for O&D customers as well, which I'm sure doesn't hurt.

And while I hope they add all those above cities, and year round service is great.... the reality is that a lot of travels still can't get to major and minor cities on Alaska easily.

Miami FL, Madison WI, Albany NY, Nassau Bahamas, Traverse City MI, Columbus OH, Providence RI
Those are just some of the domestic cities I have to visit in 2018.
That's just domestic...

And Alaska can't help me.

Add in Bay Area stuff, Tampa FL, Oklahoma City, OK, Sheboygan, WI, Denver, CO and again, unless I connect in SEA (which I refuse to do at this point). I'm stuck.

Can't use AA and connect in DFW or ORD.
Can't use DL and connect in SLC or ATL or MSP.

So, no matter how many non-stops they add, without a midwest hub or something, I'm left hung out to dry.

I wish they add more connections to PDX, and I hope I can use more of them.
But for now, well, folks like myself who need to get around, have to look elsewhere :/

I have no idea why we don't have like 5X ANC/PDX. There is no reason for us to connect in SEA all the time.
 
jbpdx
Posts: 866
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:15 pm

More evidence of Frontier’s pullback from Portland.
Monthly flights to/from PDX:

October 2016. 146
October 2017. 100
^
 
Chugach
Posts: 1341
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:53 pm

32andBelow wrote:
BlatantEcho wrote:
If Alaska had any brains, they would be flowing a lot more connections through PDX.

Yakima, Boise, Montana, even Bellingham.
Airport is less constrained, there is less competition and there is room for expansion.
That leaves them to price more seats out of SEA for O&D customers as well, which I'm sure doesn't hurt.

And while I hope they add all those above cities, and year round service is great.... the reality is that a lot of travels still can't get to major and minor cities on Alaska easily.

Miami FL, Madison WI, Albany NY, Nassau Bahamas, Traverse City MI, Columbus OH, Providence RI
Those are just some of the domestic cities I have to visit in 2018.
That's just domestic...

And Alaska can't help me.

Add in Bay Area stuff, Tampa FL, Oklahoma City, OK, Sheboygan, WI, Denver, CO and again, unless I connect in SEA (which I refuse to do at this point). I'm stuck.

Can't use AA and connect in DFW or ORD.
Can't use DL and connect in SLC or ATL or MSP.

So, no matter how many non-stops they add, without a midwest hub or something, I'm left hung out to dry.

I wish they add more connections to PDX, and I hope I can use more of them.
But for now, well, folks like myself who need to get around, have to look elsewhere :/

I have no idea why we don't have like 5X ANC/PDX. There is no reason for us to connect in SEA all the time.


Couldn’t agree more. I fly PDX-ANC at least monthly and the nonstops are almost always full. Even JetBlue, which has zero feed on either end, can fill up a plane on that route in the summer.
 
PDX757
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:06 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:37 am

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t UA operate PDX-ANC 10-15 years ago? Maybe it was pre merger CO, but I distinctly recall a non-DL legacy flying the route.
 
kwbl
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 11:55 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:54 am

I believe continental flew Pdx-anc seasonally. I know TWA did it as well
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5746
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:42 am

kwbl wrote:
I believe continental flew Pdx-anc seasonally. I know TWA did it as well


Both are correct, I flew on TW up to ANC & in F, it was nicely catered to ANC. I don't think UA ever operated PDX-ANC, but UA did operate SEA-ANC for years.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
PDX757
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:06 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:16 am

Thanks for the clarification! More service to Alaska would be nice to see at PDX. The E175 seems like a right size ac to serve places like FAI, JNU, maybe KTN. That would certainly take a lot of connecting pressure off SEA.
 
jbpdx
Posts: 866
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - Part 14

Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:34 pm

pnwpdx wrote:

Does anyone know if Delta is bringing back their seasonal HNL service to PDX?


Seems like LIH and KOA started early this year and KOA daily is new?

Honolulu
AS 738 daily
HA 332 daily
DL 739 (21 Dec-2 Jan)

Maui
AS 738 daily
AS 738 x3
HA 321 daily (starts 19 Jan)

Kona
AS 738 daily

Kauai
AS 738 x357
^
 
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bigfoot0503
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:17 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - Part 14

Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:03 pm

jbpdx wrote:
pnwpdx wrote:

Does anyone know if Delta is bringing back their seasonal HNL service to PDX?


Seems like LIH and KOA started early this year and KOA daily is new?

Honolulu
AS 738 daily
HA 332 daily
DL 739 (21 Dec-2 Jan)

Maui
AS 738 daily
AS 738 x3
HA 321 daily (starts 19 Jan)

Kona
AS 738 daily

Kauai
AS 738 x357


As a point of clarification...Delta amended their PDX-HNL schedule. The original schedule witnessed a Saturday non-stop flight continuing through at least February, I'm no longer seeing that.
 
ooslc
Posts: 312
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:51 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - Part 14

Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:44 pm

bigfoot0503 wrote:
jbpdx wrote:
pnwpdx wrote:

Does anyone know if Delta is bringing back their seasonal HNL service to PDX?


Seems like LIH and KOA started early this year and KOA daily is new?

Honolulu
AS 738 daily
HA 332 daily
DL 739 (21 Dec-2 Jan)

Maui
AS 738 daily
AS 738 x3
HA 321 daily (starts 19 Jan)

Kona
AS 738 daily

Kauai
AS 738 x357


As a point of clarification...Delta amended their PDX-HNL schedule. The original schedule witnessed a Saturday non-stop flight continuing through at least February, I'm no longer seeing that.


I'm seeing a Sat only flight from Feb 17th-Mar 31st.
    Ironically, I don't work for OO anymore, and I'm not in SLC anymore. PDX based, aviation enthusiast, non-aviation worker.
 
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bigfoot0503
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:17 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - Part 14

Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:05 pm

ooslc wrote:
bigfoot0503 wrote:
jbpdx wrote:

Seems like LIH and KOA started early this year and KOA daily is new?

Honolulu
AS 738 daily
HA 332 daily
DL 739 (21 Dec-2 Jan)

Maui
AS 738 daily
AS 738 x3
HA 321 daily (starts 19 Jan)

Kona
AS 738 daily

Kauai
AS 738 x357


As a point of clarification...Delta amended their PDX-HNL schedule. The original schedule witnessed a Saturday non-stop flight continuing through at least February, I'm no longer seeing that.


I'm seeing a Sat only flight from Feb 17th-Mar 31st.


You are correct...thank you!
 
pdxswa
Posts: 294
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:50 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:29 pm

ATI 763 has taken over the Amazon.com run from Prime Air 763 here at Pdx.
 
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ramprat74
Posts: 1366
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:01 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:08 pm

That Prime Air 767 must go out empty because it goes straight up when it takes off around 6pm.
 
CrisAA
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:30 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:42 pm

American Airlines will be adding a mid morning PHX flight 11:25am on a CRJ-900 operated by Mesa. Starting in February.
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5746
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:00 am

Not much this week guys & gals:

*AA PHL-PDX JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 - Seasonal return
AA PHX-EUG MAR 1.1>2
AA PHX-PDX MAR 5>6
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
lhpdx
Posts: 933
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:06 am

Thanks, Brian!! I definitely miss those Oregon weekly updates.........
 
jbpdx
Posts: 866
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:10 pm

Am I wrong or has Alaska’s PDX-KOA flight been increased and extended this year? I don’t remember it operating daily thru 20 May (wasn’t it 4x/week last year?) and it will operate 4x/week thru 17 August. I can’t find any announcement.

Aeromexico’s PDX-MEX nonstop begins Friday. AM now operates as many daily flights in/out of PDX as Frontier.

Spirit is launching PDX-DTW. Really?
^
 
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bigfoot0503
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:17 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:20 pm

jbpdx wrote:
Am I wrong or has Alaska’s PDX-KOA flight been increased and extended this year? I don’t remember it operating daily thru 20 May (wasn’t it 4x/week last year?) and it will operate 4x/week thru 17 August. I can’t find any announcement.

Aeromexico’s PDX-MEX nonstop begins Friday. AM now operates as many daily flights in/out of PDX as Frontier.

Spirit is launching PDX-DTW. Really?


It's great to see the entrance of AM to PDX. They represent the 5th international carrier serving PDX with scheduled flights! I firmly believe the start of service by AM is testament to the fact that Sky Team sees potential in PDX and reaffirms the growth we have witnessed by Sky Team carrier DL with some conservative growth over the past few years. Keep in mind DL has made some major investments in AM and the partnership was made clear earlier this year when they announced the addition of flights including PDX-MEX and SEA-MEX to further strengthen the Sky Team alliance.

As far as Spirit...it has been mentioned in another thread that it is odd now to see 3 carriers on the PDX-DTW route, where as not long ago DL had seasonal offerings only. My belief is that Spirit will stimulate the market and as an ULCC will attract a traveler that may not typically consider air travel. Time will tell, but Spirit is offering this as a seasonal flight and a red eye from PDX so it's likely appropriate utilization of equipment and to a certain degree minimal risk.
 
BlatantEcho
Posts: 2132
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:11 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:46 pm

I booked PDX-MEX next month. never been to Mexico City.

Was going to credit to Alaska, but now will to DL as I switch over.
Another thing that hurt Alaska, losing partners that were useable with non-stops from PDX.


Now, when is PDX-ICN going to start???
 
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TransWorldOne
Posts: 354
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 12:13 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:03 pm

BlatantEcho wrote:
I booked PDX-MEX next month. never been to Mexico City.

Was going to credit to Alaska, but now will to DL as I switch over.
Another thing that hurt Alaska, losing partners that were useable with non-stops from PDX.


Now, when is PDX-ICN going to start???



When does the DL/KE JV go into full effect? I expect that will be when DL launches PDX-ICN on a 763. The question is, will it replace PDX-NRT or operate alongside it? Is PDX-NRT mostly connecting traffic or primarily O&D?
 
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FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:27 pm

jbpdx wrote:
Spirit is launching PDX-DTW. Really?


IKR...? This makes no sense to me at all... I know that they're trying to "price war" with the other airlines, but I would think that DFW, IAH, BWI, and maybe even MSP would be ahead of DTW...
 
PDX757
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:06 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:00 pm

TransWorldOne wrote:
BlatantEcho wrote:
I booked PDX-MEX next month. never been to Mexico City.

Was going to credit to Alaska, but now will to DL as I switch over.
Another thing that hurt Alaska, losing partners that were useable with non-stops from PDX.


Now, when is PDX-ICN going to start???



When does the DL/KE JV go into full effect? I expect that will be when DL launches PDX-ICN on a 763. The question is, will it replace PDX-NRT or operate alongside it? Is PDX-NRT mostly connecting traffic or primarily O&D?


I believe NRT is mostly o&d. DL intra Asia ops aren’t too great in NRT and they seem to be evaporating fast. No skyteam partner in NRT either.
If DL does axe NRT in favor of ICN I could see JL perhaps launching PDX-NRT with a 788.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5032
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:45 pm

KS last day at CEC and PDX is 15DEC
 
910A
Posts: 1891
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:11 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:25 pm

32andBelow wrote:
KS last day at CEC and PDX is 15DEC


So I guess CEC is without air service again. I'm sure people with travel plans over the holiday period are real happy.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5032
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:33 pm

910A wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
KS last day at CEC and PDX is 15DEC


What a move, right at the beginning of the holiday travel period.

CEC took this risk in selecting a carrier that didn't even qualify to immediately begin service.
 
PDX757
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:06 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:53 pm

32andBelow wrote:
KS last day at CEC and PDX is 15DEC

Shame. KS had a nice little hub going.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5032
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:03 pm

PDX757 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
KS last day at CEC and PDX is 15DEC

Shame. KS had a nice little hub going.

The pilot problem is real.
 
910A
Posts: 1891
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:11 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:00 pm

Here is a link to the local Crescent City paper: http://www.triplicate.com/news/5799982- ... ay-at-bcra

And here is the press release from KS
ANCHORAGE – PenAir announced today that their last day of operating between Crescent City, California, and Portland, Oregon, will be December 15, 2017.

PenAir started operating between the two markets on September 15, 2015 under an Essential Air Service contract with the Department of Transportation. Beginning in early October of 2016 they added several other routes to their resume including Arcata/Eureka, CA; Redding, CA; Coos Bay/North Bend, OR; and Klamath Falls, OR.

In August of 2017 the company entered into Chapter 11 and began closing their Pacific Northwest markets out of Portland, OR. “As part of the Chapter 11 process, the company was obligated to begin eliminating those markets that were not making money. It was a tough decision to make considering the future opportunities we could see in each of these markets”, said President Danny Seybert.

“The City of Crescent City has chosen another carrier to operate out of Crescent City; however, that carrier is not ready to enter the market for several months, said Sr. Vice President of Ground Operations, Murphy Forner. We are not able to continue to service the market until the new carrier is able to start service.”

Customers currently holding reservations/tickets on PenAir after December 16, 2017 may contact PenAir Reservations at 800-448-4226 for a full refund.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6313
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:55 pm

PDX757 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
KS last day at CEC and PDX is 15DEC

Shame. KS had a nice little hub going.


It's really too bad. My dad lives in LMT and I have an uncle in RDD. I was really happy when K5 started these kind of markets from PDX.

However, I flew to LMT last Thanksgiving and it was kind of a joke. The 1pm flight was 7 hours late (you could drive there faster). The evening flight had the usual - 2 hours late; 3 hours late; 4 hours late; cancelled. There was only one employee who had any clue what she was doing or even seemed to care. She being a former AS employee from ANC, she said. K5 had gate agents at PDX who didn't even know what time the flights were scheduled to leave or how to issue a ticket.

One gate agent wrote a supposed ticket on the back of a used ticket stub (from someone else) about a supposed make up extra section the next day. Needless to say, I had no confidence that such a flight existed. I got on the late 1pm flight only because they removed two guys who'd sat on that airplane at the gate for 5 hours. Everyone around said it was totally unjustified; their conduct was fine.

The return from LMT was a bit better. Only 1 1/2 hours late because no-one could figure out how to get the de-icing truck started. I barely made my PDX connection, but made it.

K5 was just a terribly incompetent rinky-dink operation in my observation. Great concept but horribly managed. That's really too bad. I'm sure the CEO lined his pockets with money though.

I wish QX could make a run at LMT, CEC, ACV, and RDD with a once a day Q400.
 
PDX757
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:06 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:34 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
PDX757 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
KS last day at CEC and PDX is 15DEC

Shame. KS had a nice little hub going.


It's really too bad. My dad lives in LMT and I have an uncle in RDD. I was really happy when K5 started these kind of markets from PDX.

However, I flew to LMT last Thanksgiving and it was kind of a joke. The 1pm flight was 7 hours late (you could drive there faster). The evening flight had the usual - 2 hours late; 3 hours late; 4 hours late; cancelled. There was only one employee who had any clue what she was doing or even seemed to care. She being a former AS employee from ANC, she said. K5 had gate agents at PDX who didn't even know what time the flights were scheduled to leave or how to issue a ticket.

One gate agent wrote a supposed ticket on the back of a used ticket stub (from someone else) about a supposed make up extra section the next day. Needless to say, I had no confidence that such a flight existed. I got on the late 1pm flight only because they removed two guys who'd sat on that airplane at the gate for 5 hours. Everyone around said it was totally unjustified; their conduct was fine.

The return from LMT was a bit better. Only 1 1/2 hours late because no-one could figure out how to get the de-icing truck started. I barely made my PDX connection, but made it.

K5 was just a terribly incompetent rinky-dink operation in my observation. Great concept but horribly managed. That's really too bad. I'm sure the CEO lined his pockets with money though.

I wish QX could make a run at LMT, CEC, ACV, and RDD with a once a day Q400.


Poor service isn’t going to attract and maintain customers. Especially when operating into small towns where word will travel.
As to QX, I wonder if a milk run type operation would work into this markets?
 
jbpdx
Posts: 866
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:42 pm

Wonder what happened on the inaugural flight?

Aeromexico (AM) 497
Status: Arrived - Recovered

Departure: Portland, OR (PDX)
Scheduled: 23:20, Dec 1
Takeoff: 23:51, Dec 1

Arrival: Mexico City, Mexico (MEX)
Scheduled: 06:35, Dec 2
Diverted To: Guadalajara, Mexico (GDL)
At Gate: 07:12, Dec 2
Terminal-Gate: P

Diversion Departure: Guadalajara, Mexico (GDL)
Takeoff: 08:08, Dec 2

Arrival: Mexico City, Mexico (MEX)
At Gate: 10:21, Dec 2
^
 
ooslc
Posts: 312
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:51 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:06 pm

jbpdx wrote:
Wonder what happened on the inaugural flight?

Aeromexico (AM) 497
Status: Arrived - Recovered

Departure: Portland, OR (PDX)
Scheduled: 23:20, Dec 1
Takeoff: 23:51, Dec 1

Arrival: Mexico City, Mexico (MEX)
Scheduled: 06:35, Dec 2
Diverted To: Guadalajara, Mexico (GDL)
At Gate: 07:12, Dec 2
Terminal-Gate: P

Diversion Departure: Guadalajara, Mexico (GDL)
Takeoff: 08:08, Dec 2

Arrival: Mexico City, Mexico (MEX)
At Gate: 10:21, Dec 2


It's pretty foggy there. I'm guessing that is the reason. Looking at weather graphs it was really bad at landing time, then got worse, but improved around 830am. 3 miles and foggy still right now.
    Ironically, I don't work for OO anymore, and I'm not in SLC anymore. PDX based, aviation enthusiast, non-aviation worker.
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5746
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:47 pm

This weeks OAG thread, just a bit for Oregon:

*NK DTW-PDX MAY 0>0.7 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
pdxav8r
Posts: 256
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:15 am

Re: Oregon Aviation Thread - 2017

Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:25 am

Noticed that AS has moved PDX-SMF and PDX-OAK to mainline. Looks like with reductions in frequency when QX ran the routes. I wonder if this is strictly because of the tight pilot situation. Haven’t seen mainline on either of these routes in years.

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