Pelly
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ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:08 am

The Arab Air Carriers' Association (AACO - http://www.aaco.org) updated their published statistics and I thought the numbers could be of interest to A.net.

Scheduled Operations - December 2016 - Source: SRS Analyser database via AACO

1. Average Daily Departures:
EK - 565
QR - 530
EY - 282

2. Airports Served
EK - 140
QR - 154
EY - 91



Traffic and Capacity - Calendar Year 2015

1. Traffic RPK mil (year on year growth)
EK - 251,190 (+8.8%)
QR - 108,327 (+18.0%)
EY - 83,227 (+21.3%)

2. Capacity ASK mil (year on year growth)
EK - 324,464 (+12.5%)
QR - 144,405 (+19.3%)
EY - 104,438 (+21.0%)
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:58 am

Thanks for the info.

I often question why EY exists, save for vanity.
This plays toward that.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
MiddleEastMike
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:03 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Thanks for the info.

I often question why EY exists, save for vanity.
This plays toward that.


I often question why many airlines exist. We often forget that Etihad was only started in 2003, compared to Emirates of 1985.
International Man of Mystery
 
factsonly
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:09 pm

So we deduct:

....RPKs.......ASKs....loadfactor
EK 251190 324464 77%
QR 108327 144405 75%
EY 83227 104438 80%

Which must be followed by the A.net standard warning:

''Loadfactors say nothing about the profitability of a network''.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:15 pm

MiddleEastMike wrote:
We often forget that Etihad was only started in 2003, compared to Emirates of 1985.

Perhaps some do, but I'm not among them.

In fact, that's one of the key reasons *why* I question the point of starting it: EK was already flying to the likes of HKG and SYD nonstop, and launched NYC shortly thereafter. It really was puzzling as to why that region "needed" yet another global carrier-- as anything other than a vanity project.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
mmo
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:40 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
MiddleEastMike wrote:
We often forget that Etihad was only started in 2003, compared to Emirates of 1985.

Perhaps some do, but I'm not among them.

In fact, that's one of the key reasons *why* I question the point of starting it: EK was already flying to the likes of HKG and SYD nonstop, and launched NYC shortly thereafter. It really was puzzling as to why that region "needed" yet another global carrier-- as anything other than a vanity project.


You fail to realize or comprehend the politics in the UAE. DXB is not the capital of the UAE, AUH is. As such, the country's airline, according to the Emir of Abu Dhabi who is also the president of the UAE, should be located in AUH. All of the money is located in AUH and as such it should have the status of having the leading airline in the country.

Egos are very big in decision making, especially in the ME.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
mjoelnir
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:02 pm

mmo wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
MiddleEastMike wrote:
We often forget that Etihad was only started in 2003, compared to Emirates of 1985.

Perhaps some do, but I'm not among them.

In fact, that's one of the key reasons *why* I question the point of starting it: EK was already flying to the likes of HKG and SYD nonstop, and launched NYC shortly thereafter. It really was puzzling as to why that region "needed" yet another global carrier-- as anything other than a vanity project.


You fail to realize or comprehend the politics in the UAE. DXB is not the capital of the UAE, AUH is. As such, the country's airline, according to the Emir of Abu Dhabi who is also the president of the UAE, should be located in AUH. All of the money is located in AUH and as such it should have the status of having the leading airline in the country.

Egos are very big in decision making, especially in the ME.


So you both agree with Etihad being a vanity project.
 
incitatus
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:17 pm

mmo wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:

You fail to realize or comprehend the politics in the UAE. DXB is not the capital of the UAE, AUH is. As such, the country's airline, according to the Emir of Abu Dhabi who is also the president of the UAE, should be located in AUH. All of the money is located in AUH and as such it should have the status of having the leading airline in the country.

Egos are very big in decision making, especially in the ME.


All the money is located in AUH? I do not understand what that means, even figuratively.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
MiddleEastMike
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:37 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
MiddleEastMike wrote:
We often forget that Etihad was only started in 2003, compared to Emirates of 1985.

Perhaps some do, but I'm not among them.

In fact, that's one of the key reasons *why* I question the point of starting it: EK was already flying to the likes of HKG and SYD nonstop, and launched NYC shortly thereafter. It really was puzzling as to why that region "needed" yet another global carrier-- as anything other than a vanity project.


But in that aspect you could question that about any airline? 5 different carriers fly LHR-DXB, or the 7 (I think) that fly LON-NYC.

There's obviously a gap in the market as it's a flight I do quite often and it's been forever full on both EY450/454, same for MEL/BNE/PER.

I think both carriers attract different clients as well. But personally they aren't a vanity product, more a competitive one for the region
International Man of Mystery
 
Varsity1
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:56 pm

mmo wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
MiddleEastMike wrote:
We often forget that Etihad was only started in 2003, compared to Emirates of 1985.

Perhaps some do, but I'm not among them.

In fact, that's one of the key reasons *why* I question the point of starting it: EK was already flying to the likes of HKG and SYD nonstop, and launched NYC shortly thereafter. It really was puzzling as to why that region "needed" yet another global carrier-- as anything other than a vanity project.


You fail to realize or comprehend the politics in the UAE. DXB is not the capital of the UAE, AUH is. As such, the country's airline, according to the Emir of Abu Dhabi who is also the president of the UAE, should be located in AUH. All of the money is located in AUH and as such it should have the status of having the leading airline in the country.

Egos are very big in decision making, especially in the ME.


Also explains why they blacken the skies with subsidized super jumbos.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:07 pm

.................Fleet Grp.Emp...Airline Emp
Emirates...250....103,678......65,192
Qatar........192......43,000......25,000
Etihad.......120......26,637......20,460


https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... r-2016-17#
https://www.qatarairways.com/iwov-resou ... nglish.pdf
http://www.etihad.com/Documents/PDFs/Co ... 2016EN.pdf
 
mmo
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:12 pm

Anyone who thinks EY is a vanity airline really needs their head examined! EY is a very serious business. They are about 10 years behind EK but they have very deep pockets, much deeper than DXB.

As far as someone not understanding my comments regarding where the real wealth is in the UAE, you should do some research. DXB has some banking, tourism and a little gas production. AUH has years and years more production of gas than DXB ever had. AUH has bailed out DXB twice that I can remember. I was working in AUH at the time and no one was surprised at all. There were rumours of EK being offered as security for the funds. AUH just about laughted at that proposal.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
tayaramecanici
Posts: 251
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:53 pm

EY has a much more clever buisness with the feed of higher yield connecting group airlines into AUH i,e. JetAirways feed from India to AUH-World-wide as an example of its better load-factor.

Further more EK is bloated heavily of Employees/Aircraft because of it WB only fleet, wherein utilisation is invariably 1 cycle in a 24hr, especially on the North-America flights.

To be honest each of the ME3 airlines should have been half their size of fleet. DXB created the excess of WB fleets, based on leveraging new real-estate biz and the OIL investments by the saudi-kuwait investors. EK has been increasing its order size since 2001, on every alternating year at the DXB airfair. This orders only stopped in 2015 however is continued for FlyDubai.
The other 2 of ME3 were also putting the orders left and right. In the case of AUH they had good set of airlines they could buy out/invest for cheap.
''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
 
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PerfectGriffin
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:26 pm

QR and EY just copied EK's strategy. EK could have been an ever bigger giant today had it not been for those two airlines.
 
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PerfectGriffin
Posts: 538
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:30 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
mmo wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Perhaps some do, but I'm not among them.

In fact, that's one of the key reasons *why* I question the point of starting it: EK was already flying to the likes of HKG and SYD nonstop, and launched NYC shortly thereafter. It really was puzzling as to why that region "needed" yet another global carrier-- as anything other than a vanity project.


You fail to realize or comprehend the politics in the UAE. DXB is not the capital of the UAE, AUH is. As such, the country's airline, according to the Emir of Abu Dhabi who is also the president of the UAE, should be located in AUH. All of the money is located in AUH and as such it should have the status of having the leading airline in the country.

Egos are very big in decision making, especially in the ME.


So you both agree with Etihad being a vanity project.


EY is not a vanity project. They were created when Gulf Air dropped operations at AUH. Abu Dhabi needed an airline and so there was demand. And the government of Abu Dhabi has used EY to grow tourism in the emirate. The point is, they do hope EY will be making them money like EK does for Dubai, but so far, EY has only lost money.
 
Obzerva
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:38 pm

PerfectGriffin wrote:
QR and EY just copied EK's strategy. EK could have been an ever bigger giant today had it not been for those two airlines.


I wouldn't say they have the three of the same strategy, yes they're all positioned in a very advantageous region of the world to be global carriers.

however as far as strategy goes:
EK - 100% widebody fleet, bigger is better, very little codesharing, and that's been a relatively recent aspect. Ability to use Flydubai for is secondary/tertiary markets.

QR - mid of widebody and narrowbody, serving a number of destinations that EK doesn't directly serve due the ability to service them using narrowbody.

EY - mix of widebody and narrowbody, but also and key point not serving each destination under it's own name, having Jet, Air Berlin, Alitalia, Air Serbia, Virgin Aus, Niki, among a host of other partners all supplementing or adding to it's schedules. As these airlines aren't counted in the comparison figures (not should they be) EY looks smaller, but in actual fact it market share isn't purely EY operated flights but on the plethora of codeshares that all come in to AUH. It's strategy however has involved a number of questionable investments.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:11 pm

PerfectGriffin wrote:
QR and EY just copied EK's strategy. EK could have been an ever bigger giant today had it not been for those two airlines.



No they didn't. It appears QR and EY had better strategy and better prepared for headwinds.

They have flexible fleet.
They are not morbidly obese.

EY may had trouble with its equity partners, but its core business strategy looks solid.

Just compare the wasted capacity.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:39 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
.................Fleet Grp.Emp...Airline Emp
Emirates...250....103,678......65,192
Qatar........192......43,000......25,000
Etihad.......120......26,637......20,460


In a recent thread: "Is EK bubble about to burst and what it means for Boeing and Airbus" viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1351245&start=150

You used similar fallacious arguments regarding EK airline employees and in not recognizing properly the difference between actual airline employment and that of subsidiaries and other aspects of the broader Emirates enterprise. Many posters countered your erroneous use of employment numbers (as well as other of your false arguments).

The following numbers for employee groups is taken from Emirates' 2015-16 annual report: http://content.emirates.com/downloads/e ... t_2016.pdf

Cabin Crew..........................21,722
Flight Deck Crew...................3,868
Engineering...........................3,215
Others................................13.352 (ramp, office and other customer-facing staff)
Overseas Stations.................5,866

Subtotal for Airline...............48,023

Subsidiary Companies.........13,182

Total Employees..................65,205

dnata..................................34,117

Total Group.........................99,322

Aircraft: 251 (includes a few freighters)
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:56 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
You used similar fallacious arguments regarding EK airline employees and in not recognizing properly the difference between actual airline employment and that of subsidiaries and other aspects of the broader Emirates enterprise. Many posters countered your erroneous use of employment numbers (as well as other of your false arguments).


No I didn't, rather than selectively quoting my post check the link I provided for official 2016 H1 results. Stop quoting old numbers.

Having separate kitchens, lounges, airport services, coffee and wine ventures for Emirates and dnata is not the efficient way to run business. They are still same group, good if you have large margin, bloat gets called out when margins are thin.
 
anshabhi
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:48 am

The ME3 are hollow boxes if left alone. They depend on foreign countries for everything- from passengers to employees to finance for aircraft. Changing global perceptions and conditions will hit them hard.
 
incitatus
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:31 am

mmo wrote:
Anyone who thinks EY is a vanity airline really needs their head examined! EY is a very serious business. They are about 10 years behind EK but they have very deep pockets, much deeper than DXB.

As far as someone not understanding my comments regarding where the real wealth is in the UAE, you should do some research. DXB has some banking, tourism and a little gas production. AUH has years and years more production of gas than DXB ever had. AUH has bailed out DXB twice that I can remember. I was working in AUH at the time and no one was surprised at all. There were rumours of EK being offered as security for the funds. AUH just about laughted at that proposal.


You need to do some research.

DXB is an airport that handles 41 million passengers per year that are either initiating or terminating their trip at DXB - that is, connections excluded. The same metric for AUH is 8.5 million. Abu Dhabi may hold the keys to capital in the UAE, but that is about it. The bulk of trading and services in the UAE is in Dubai. Most financial services, consulting firms and offices of foreign corporations choose to locate in Dubai. And DXB is a significant reason why they choose to. When it comes to premium travel in business and first class, the comparison is even more embarrassing to Abu Dhabi - the critical mass is simply not there.

Canada has Ottawa and Toronto
Brazil has Brasilia and Sao Paulo.
Nigeria has Abuja and Lagos
The UAE has Abu Dhabi and Dubai.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:08 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
You used similar fallacious arguments regarding EK airline employees and in not recognizing properly the difference between actual airline employment and that of subsidiaries and other aspects of the broader Emirates enterprise. Many posters countered your erroneous use of employment numbers (as well as other of your false arguments).


No I didn't, rather than selectively quoting my post check the link I provided for official 2016 H1 results. Stop quoting old numbers.

Having separate kitchens, lounges, airport services, coffee and wine ventures for Emirates and dnata is not the efficient way to run business. They are still same group, good if you have large margin, bloat gets called out when margins are thin.


I did not selectively quote your post, I quoted it in its entirety. The links you posted are not "you" speaking.

Your use of the word bloat is simply wrong. You are counting as bloated employees of the airline employees of of subsidiary business that have nothing to do with the airline per se. They are people providing services to OTHER airlines and to other businesses. The success of those ancillary businesses depends upon how well they serve other airlines with maintenance, catering, ground handling and so forth.

This is no different than Delta providing maintenance for other carriers, or operating an oil refinery. Those refinery workers are not airline employees of Delta and do not "bloat" Delta's payroll.

Learn to read an annual report. Such reports are not "old numbers" until the next complete annual report is issued. Interim reports are often tentative and may not cover high or low seasons.

It is obvious that you are not qualified to judge business efficiency. If you were you would offer facts to support your statements, giving specific examples. You have not shown, for instance, that Emirates' wine venture is in any way inefficient, that they pay more for product than is necessary, or that their warehouse or delivery systems are not optimal.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
waly777
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:55 am

incitatus wrote:
mmo wrote:
Anyone who thinks EY is a vanity airline really needs their head examined! EY is a very serious business. They are about 10 years behind EK but they have very deep pockets, much deeper than DXB.

As far as someone not understanding my comments regarding where the real wealth is in the UAE, you should do some research. DXB has some banking, tourism and a little gas production. AUH has years and years more production of gas than DXB ever had. AUH has bailed out DXB twice that I can remember. I was working in AUH at the time and no one was surprised at all. There were rumours of EK being offered as security for the funds. AUH just about laughted at that proposal.


You need to do some research.

DXB is an airport that handles 41 million passengers per year that are either initiating or terminating their trip at DXB - that is, connections excluded. The same metric for AUH is 8.5 million. Abu Dhabi may hold the keys to capital in the UAE, but that is about it. The bulk of trading and services in the UAE is in Dubai. Most financial services, consulting firms and offices of foreign corporations choose to locate in Dubai. And DXB is a significant reason why they choose to. When it comes to premium travel in business and first class, the comparison is even more embarrassing to Abu Dhabi - the critical mass is simply not there.

Canada has Ottawa and Toronto
Brazil has Brasilia and Sao Paulo.
Nigeria has Abuja and Lagos
The UAE has Abu Dhabi and Dubai.


Your assumption probably assumes none of those passengers who stop in Dubai do not visit abu dhabi and vice versa. EK and EY run dedicated shuttle coaches to the cities of Abu Dhabi and Dubai respectively.

The difference between those countries you've mentioned and the UAE is.....Dubai and abu dhabi are roughly 1.5 hours drive away. There is a good tourist flow between those cities. 23 million+ total pax in 2016 used AUH. Please show your sources for terminating/originating pax, and did this include the short stopover guests in between connections?
The test of first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold 2 opposed ideas in the mind concurrently, and still function
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:01 am

mmo wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
MiddleEastMike wrote:
We often forget that Etihad was only started in 2003, compared to Emirates of 1985.
Perhaps some do, but I'm not among them.

In fact, that's one of the key reasons *why* I question the point of starting it: EK was already flying to the likes of HKG and SYD nonstop, and launched NYC shortly thereafter. It really was puzzling as to why that region "needed" yet another global carrier-- as anything other than a vanity project.

You fail to realize or comprehend the politics in the UAE. DXB is not the capital of the UAE, AUH is. As such, the country's airline, according to the Emir of Abu Dhabi who is also the president of the UAE, should be located in AUH. All of the money is located in AUH and as such it should have the status of having the leading airline in the country.

Egos are very big in decision making, especially in the ME.

You fail to realize or comprehend that you're essentially saying the same thing I am.......... :lol:


PerfectGriffin wrote:
Abu Dhabi needed an airline

...did it though?
EY's financial history, at least what we know of it, might lead one to conclude that it arguably didn't.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
sierra3tango
Posts: 586
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:32 pm

PerfectGriffin wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
mmo wrote:


EY is not a vanity project. They were created when Gulf Air dropped operations at AUH. Abu Dhabi needed an airline and so there was demand. And the government of Abu Dhabi has used EY to grow tourism in the emirate. The point is, they do hope EY will be making them money like EK does for Dubai, but so far, EY has only lost money.



Disagreed GF didn't drop operations at AUH resulting in the need for EY to be created.

Other way around, as for QR before (in 02) GF were the AUH flag carrier with the Emir (Sh Zayed) publicly promising continued support for GF in 02. EY started operations in late 03 but GF continued to supply the greater majority of services ex AUH. As EY evolved the decision of the AUH Government to bail out of GF came in late 05 with an exit date of Spring 06, Sh Zayed died 04.

All of GFs AUH route rights (excepting Oman & Bahrain) went to EY in April 06, so in a way EY benefited from this transfer of established routes. As it did with James Hogan transfer, GFs CEO at the time, though the change of employer was stated to be unrelated.

So EY existed for at least 2 1/2 years before GF departed, which was caused by AUH Government disposal of its GF shareholding. QR happened in very much the same way in 2003 and the Omani Government departed GF in 07, though in different circumstances.

Both EY & QR at their founding, & for quite some years after, benefitted from GF route establishment / proving going back decades.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:01 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
You used similar fallacious arguments regarding EK airline employees and in not recognizing properly the difference between actual airline employment and that of subsidiaries and other aspects of the broader Emirates enterprise. Many posters countered your erroneous use of employment numbers (as well as other of your false arguments).


No I didn't, rather than selectively quoting my post check the link I provided for official 2016 H1 results. Stop quoting old numbers.

Having separate kitchens, lounges, airport services, coffee and wine ventures for Emirates and dnata is not the efficient way to run business. They are still same group, good if you have large margin, bloat gets called out when margins are thin.


I did not selectively quote your post, I quoted it in its entirety. The links you posted are not "you" speaking.

Your use of the word bloat is simply wrong. You are counting as bloated employees of the airline employees of of subsidiary business that have nothing to do with the airline per se. They are people providing services to OTHER airlines and to other businesses. The success of those ancillary businesses depends upon how well they serve other airlines with maintenance, catering, ground handling and so forth.

This is no different than Delta providing maintenance for other carriers, or operating an oil refinery. Those refinery workers are not airline employees of Delta and do not "bloat" Delta's payroll.

Learn to read an annual report. Such reports are not "old numbers" until the next complete annual report is issued. Interim reports are often tentative and may not cover high or low seasons.

It is obvious that you are not qualified to judge business efficiency. If you were you would offer facts to support your statements, giving specific examples. You have not shown, for instance, that Emirates' wine venture is in any way inefficient, that they pay more for product than is necessary, or that their warehouse or delivery systems are not optimal.


So you are asking to ignore EK's own latest numbers!!!

The support staff are bloated and not contributing enough to airline/group's bottom line. For a four bank one hub airline, it is bloated. There is no other way to spin it. QR serving more destinations, it has 192 planes, support staff is no where near this one.

If dnata(a sister company) is running a kitchen why do EK need to run a parallel kitchen. Let dnata run EK branded operations and take advantage of synergies rather than creating redundancies.

Generally, state owned carriers are considered employment generation program for locals. This sounds like an employment program for not to be named different country
 
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PW100
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:42 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
For a four bank one hub airline, it is bloated. There is no other way to spin it.


What other airline in the WORLD is operating a 240 strong fleet from one single hub, with the SMALLEST plane being a 77W . . . sigh.


KLM Cityhopper
Fleetsize: 50* (smallest plane F70, largest E190)
Employees: 1300*.

KLM
Fleetsize: 120* (smallest plane 737, largest 744)
Employees: 35000*.

* Give or take a couple percent.

I'd say mission profile and fleet gauge is by far the most discriminating factor in Employee / Fleet Size ratio. Any other conclusion from this ratio is probably just hot air. Or spin, as some would say.
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
winginit
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Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:06 pm

incitatus wrote:
All the money is located in AUH? I do not understand what that means, even figuratively.


It means that, for example, when Dubai spends their way into an unsustainable pool of debt as they're prone to doing, Abu Dhabi needs to to come give them a handout to stay on their feet
 
sf260
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:59 pm

Re: ME3 statistics and scale comparison

Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:53 pm

PW100 wrote:
KLM Cityhopper
Fleetsize: 50* (smallest plane F70, largest E190)
Employees: 1300*.

KLM
Fleetsize: 120* (smallest plane 737, largest 744)
Employees: 35000*.

What do those numbers represent? The number for cityhopper seems to be flight & cabin crew exclusively. You really need a lot more than pilots and flight attendants to run an airline, even if it's 'only' 50 aircraft.

Don't try to make a point with false numbers.

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Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos