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Re: List of busiest airports in Europe (2016)

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:12 pm
by mict
Jetty wrote:
mict wrote:
With the 2 Istanbul airport adding up to about 90M, it is safe to assume that the new Istanbul airport will be 2nd (or even 1st after a few years) on that list when it opens in 2018 / 2019.

SAW won't close after the new Istanbul airport opened, so I'm not sure a prediction based on the 2 current airports makes sense. Besides that Turkey is facing many risks that could impact air traffic demand and the willingness of people to transfer at IST. 2016 foreign investment down >50%, 2016 tourism down >30%. The new airport definitely has potential to become Europe's biggest, but that is by no means 'safe to assume'.



I know it won't close but TK has been splitting operations in IST and SAW because IST is congested, some of their split operations are going to come back together in the new airport.
Yea maybe "safe to assume" is a strong word given current situation in Turkey but hopefully it goes back to normal soon. Istanbul had a massive 20+% growth per year (if I remember correctly SAW was doing about +20% a year and IST around +9%) until the recent events :(.

Re: List of busiest airports in Europe (2016)

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:25 am
by stationmanager
factsonly wrote:
sierra3tango wrote:
My understanding is that a transfer pax is counted twice in these figures, correct if untrue?
Once for the arrival and once for the departure?

If so, in theory two airports publishing indentical pax numbers of say 50M,
one with 50% transfer = 25M pairs of boots
whilst another with 100% O&D is actually handling double the pax

Assuming these figures are so constructed, then the numbers are distorted (oranges to apples)


You are incorrect, airports have an international agreement about counting passengers:

Airport figures according to ACI rules: Passengers counted as (1) Arrival + (2) Departure + (3) Transfer counted ONCE !

Check any airport statistics page and you will see this mentioned.


Well, you are correct about transits, for example a flight between FRA-GRU making a stop at LPA for refuelling. Yes, these PAX are counted once at LPA.

But for transfers or connections, they are counted twice, for example a passenger travelling BLQ-LHR-HKG is counted twice at LHR, once as arrival from BLQ and once as departure to HKG.

The problem is data for all these connections are no accurate cause are on airlines' hands and airport authority has not acces to this data, only an estimation.

So airports with no hubbing traffic like PMI, AYT, STN, AGP, ... have more terminal traffic than statistics show.

Re: List of busiest airports in Europe (2016)

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:03 am
by lightsaber
mict wrote:
I know it won't close but TK has been splitting operations in IST and SAW because IST is congested, some of their split operations are going to come back together in the new airport.
Yea maybe "safe to assume" is a strong word given current situation in Turkey but hopefully it goes back to normal soon. Istanbul had a massive 20+% growth per year (if I remember correctly SAW was doing about +20% a year and IST around +9%) until the recent events :(.



I agree TK will consolidate to the new IST as much as makes sense. Only by combining flights are connections offered. Split hubs *massively* reduce connectivity. Every new flight might add a few connections to an existing flight increasing the flight's revenue. It is the network effect.

But that will depend on the cost, quality, and desirability of the new IST, including from a ground transportation example.

Lightsaber

Re: List of busiest airports in Europe (2016)

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:41 am
by prebennorholm
B747forever wrote:
3. AMS + 9.2%

What is the reason for this rapid growth at AMS?

One reason is that KLM Citihopper has got a nice network of routes between AMS and many minor airports in Western Europe.

For instance a lot of people in the more thinly populated western parts of Denmark and Norway now use AMS as their inter-European and also intercontinental hub. It is often more convenient than in the old days when OSL and CPH would be the only relevant transit hubs. A former domestic flight to OSL or CPH is made into a 15 minutes longer sector to AMS, and then you have often much superior choice of destinations and frequency from there.

Air France has executed a similar strategy, but seen from here in Scandinavia on a much smaller scale than KLM Citihopper.

Re: List of busiest airports in Europe (2016)

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:56 am
by VCEflyboy
Oh gosh. I don't get this amazement about Iceland, Ireland and AMS.
Look at how much taxes airlines are paying there?? Zero, close to zero or nearly zero.

Re: List of busiest airports in Europe (2016)

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:27 am
by factsonly
Well not only AMS, but Shanghai Pudung (PVG) seems to overtaken FRA and IST as well in the last 12 months.

The Chinese airport moved from:

- 2015 = 60 Million
- 2016 = 66 Million

So the 2016 world listing looks something like:

1. ATLANTA GA, US (ATL)
2. BEIJING, CN (PEK)
3. DUBAI, AE (DXB)
4. CHICAGO IL, US (ORD)
5. TOKYO, JP (HND)
6. LOS ANGELES CA, US (LAX) (has overtaken LHR)
7. LONDON, GB (LHR) (one lower)
8. HONG KONG, HK (HKG)
9. SHANGHAI, CN (PVG) (has overtaken IST, FRA, CDG, DFW)
10. PARIS, FR (CDG) (one lower)
11. DALLAS/FORT WORTH TX, US (DFW) (one lower)
12. AMSTERDAM, NL (AMS) (has overtaken IST, FRA)
13. FRANKFURT, DE (FRA) (one lower, has overtaken IST)
14. ISTANBUL, TR (IST) (three lower)

Re: List of busiest airports in Europe (2016)

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:14 pm
by vv701
factsonly wrote:
vv701 wrote:

What surprised me is the data in the Wiki link. It shows LHR passenger numbers increasing by almost 10M or 15 per cent over six years.

LHR passenger numbers were 65,881,660 in 2010. Last year they are reported as being 75,676,000.


Sorry, but LHR performance is disappointing, if you consider the airport's performance compared to overall market growth.


As you can see I expressed 'surprise' not ' pleasure' or, indeed, 'disappointment' at the growth of passenger numbers at LHR since 2010. Nevertheless since you assert that the 'LHR performance is disappointing' let's look at some numbers comparing like with like.

Here is the data for the four major European hubs:

LHR: 2010 65,861,660 passengers; 2016 75,676,000 passengers; passenger number growth 9,814,380
CDG: 2010 58,164,612 passengers; 2016 65,933,145 passengers; passenger number growth 7,768,533
FRA: 2010 58,009,221 passengers; 2016 60,792,308 passengers; passenger number growth 7,783,137
AMS: 2010 45,211,749 passengers; 2016 63,625,664 passengers; passenger number growth 18,413,825

AMS clearly had a stellar performance. But remember that LHR is the only capacity restricted airport amongst the four hubs. In Summer Season 2010 its slot coordinator assigned 9,524 arrival and departure weekly slots. The equivalent number for 2016, 9,620, was only 1.0 per cent larger. Nevertheless the airport handled 9,814,380 or 15 per cent more passengers. This growth was one third more than that at both CDG and FRA. So LHR extended its lead at the top of the European table by just over 2 million passengers. This surprised me. It did not disappoint me. All that did disappoint me was that we still await a final decision on the construction of a third LHR runway.

Finally note that the 'disappointing' 9,814,380 LHR passenger growth between 2010 and 2016 was 5 per cent larger than the total number of passengers using GLA in 2016, namely 9,363,962.

Re: List of busiest airports in Europe (2016)

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:37 pm
by ro1960
airbazar wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
The growth rate for European Airports is quite low.

I disagree with this statement.
Many airports are seeing significant growth rates. It's the more established hubs like LHR/CDG/FRA that see smaller growth rates. Just about every European airport broke passenger records in 2016. If you go down that list, the trend is obvious, hardly anyone had a growth rate of less than 5%, and many were in the double digits or close to it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... isional.29


If you sort the list by decreasing change, you see more than 29 airports have a growth over 10%, of which 4 over 20%. Very few with negative numbers. Quite impressive. It'll be interesting to have a look when the list is complete.

Re: List of busiest airports in Europe (2016)

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:46 pm
by rwsea
I lived in AMS for several years, and still go back a few times a year to visit. Over the last couple of years, Schiphol has seemed more and more crowded. Lines are longer for security and immigration, the lounges are getting busier, and it just feels much more hectic in general. Good for the Dutch economy I suppose, but I miss the 'good old days ...

Re: List of busiest airports in Europe (2016)

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:59 pm
by dirk88
rwsea wrote:
I lived in AMS for several years, and still go back a few times a year to visit. Over the last couple of years, Schiphol has seemed more and more crowded. Lines are longer for security and immigration, the lounges are getting busier, and it just feels much more hectic in general. Good for the Dutch economy I suppose, but I miss the 'good old days ...


The lines for immigration lines are indeed much longer, but that not only has to do with air traffic growth. The border patrol division of the Dutch Marshals was short on personal (and might still be) as many employees were taken from Schiphol and put to work at refugee centers.

Re: List of busiest airports in Europe (2016)

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:56 pm
by LTU932
If you got a biometric passport, you could use the automatic passport control. If I remember correctly, it's for all US, Canadian and EU passports. I used it at exit immigration and was through in less than two minutes. I'm sure they should have one for arrivals as well.

Re: List of busiest airports in Europe (2016)

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:39 pm
by wolbo
The - 31% for Antalya really sticks out in a negative sense. Is that purely due to political events / situation in Turkey? Also interesting that traffic increased almost 9% at Moscow's Sheremetyevo Airport but decreased almost 7% at Domodedovo and even 11% at Vnukovo.

Re: List of busiest airports in Europe (2016)

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:35 pm
by Bostrom
wolbo wrote:
The - 31% for Antalya really sticks out in a negative sense. Is that purely due to political events / situation in Turkey?


Probably. The Antalya area has been a popular charter destination for Europeans, I guess many of them chose other destinations in 2016.

Re: List of busiest airports in Europe (2016)

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:14 pm
by Aeroflot777
wolbo wrote:
The - 31% for Antalya really sticks out in a negative sense. Is that purely due to political events / situation in Turkey? Also interesting that traffic increased almost 9% at Moscow's Sheremetyevo Airport but decreased almost 7% at Domodedovo and even 11% at Vnukovo.


Very easy explanation... RIP Transaero. UN had a significant presence at both DME and VKO before going bust. Makes flying through those airports a breeze now though :D I can't complain.