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lospadres
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AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:56 pm

Didn't see this posted if so let me know and I'll delete.

Interesting to see, "American has ranked last or next-to-last all nine years of the scorecard." When will their management figure out they need to change? Will it take another bankruptcy years from now for things to change? For now I feel it will be status quo as they are just printing money in this environment.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-best-an ... 1484149294
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:59 pm

And yet AA is making record profits since the merger.
 
grbauc
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:08 pm

Probally don't see it because these kind of articles are garbage. AA just needs to advertise more with the WSJ
 
grbauc
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:12 pm

Ive been happy with my AA flying last year EP. I just took AA to SMF from LAX and AA called me asking if I could get there a little early has they where afraid the fog would come in and delay my flight. I was at the airport and we took off from the gate 10 min early. I also fly DL a fair bit made GM last year and truthfully I feel DL has its act together more so then AA but with the way mergers played out Id say AA is on schedule.
 
usflyer123
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:16 pm

I guess those people did not fly Spirit...
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thekorean
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:27 pm

usflyer123 wrote:
I guess those people did not fly Spirit...


When it comes to price to service ratio, Spirit is probably far from worst.
 
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piedmontf284000
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:33 pm

Read the fine print at the bottom. It includes regional affiliates. That is huge, because it creates a much greater statistical means to measure them by and also because AA sometimes has zero control of operations within their regional affiliates. That means that AA's numbers will be enhanced 10 fold over companies like NK, B6, WN, F9, and VX who don't have regional affiliates. Also, the delays are measured by FlightStats, (for the record, I use them all the time) but they aren't always 100 percent accurate.

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ty97
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:39 pm

thekorean wrote:
usflyer123 wrote:
I guess those people did not fly Spirit...


When it comes to price to service ratio, Spirit is probably far from worst.


This is a key point. People rate what they get based on what they expect. It's the same reason why when you look at any city for top hotels on Tripadvisor, the seemingly best, most high-rate, 5-star hotel probably is not #1 and, perhaps, a more budget-friendly mid-range hotel may be. People rate their experience on their expectations, not evenly across brands. Same with airlines and what people do/not complain about.

(*not a defense of AA)
 
simpv
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:39 pm

UA has steadily moved up in the rankings. There is hope!
 
Prost
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:42 pm

These rankings are at least something empirical to compare, versus a Skytrax rating for example.
 
crazytoaster
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:51 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
Read the fine print at the bottom. It includes regional affiliates. That is huge, because it creates a much greater statistical means to measure them by and also because AA sometimes has zero control of operations within their regional affiliates. That means that AA's numbers will be enhanced 10 fold over companies like NK, B6, WN, F9, and VX who don't have regional affiliates. Also, the delays are measured by FlightStats, (for the record, I use them all the time) but they aren't always 100 percent accurate.



I would argue against that. Most passengers don't know that they are on a regional affiliate and AA could bring all flying in house theoretically. To an everyday passenger if the ticket says AA then they must be flying on AA, they don't care if it was Republic or whomever. Also DL and UA also use many of the same regionals as AA so there data would be affected by the "negative" regionals.
DEN homebase. Frequent traveler to IND and RNO.
 
TUSDawg23
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:08 pm

This pretty much validates how well-run DL has been for the last couple of years. AA has a lot of work to do to catchup operationally and UA has made improvements.
 
Prost
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:16 pm

Nothing Delta has done to operate efficiently is magic beans and secret sauce, American could do the same tomorrow with enough determination.

Now that they're finally consolidating EVERYTHING to one operating standard, and all employees rowing together I fully expect American's statisticis to improve.
 
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diverdave
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:37 pm

grbauc wrote:
Ive been happy with my AA flying last year EP. I just took AA to SMF from LAX and AA called me asking if I could get there a little early has they where afraid the fog would come in and delay my flight. I was at the airport and we took off from the gate 10 min early. I also fly DL a fair bit made GM last year and truthfully I feel DL has its act together more so then AA but with the way mergers played out Id say AA is on schedule.


I would expect that your experiences as an AAdvantage Executive Platinum member are not representative of the services that AA provides to its average customer. Life as an EP is pretty good, life as an average customer not so much. :)
 
wn676
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:05 pm

Prost wrote:
Nothing Delta has done to operate efficiently is magic beans and secret sauce, American could do the same tomorrow with enough determination.

Now that they're finally consolidating EVERYTHING to one operating standard, and all employees rowing together I fully expect American's statisticis to improve.


Wasn't it in the couple years following DL's merger that it was ranked consistently worst as well? That was around the same time, IIRC, that US was leading the majors in performance statistics after an intense focus on operational reliability following their 2005 merger, and was accomplished even with the East/West split. I remember all the comments on here about them padding schedules and otherwise supposedly cheating the system then as well. It's cyclical. Eventually they will all even out.
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intotheair
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:18 pm

thekorean wrote:
usflyer123 wrote:
I guess those people did not fly Spirit...


When it comes to price to service ratio, Spirit is probably far from worst.


Though Spirit did come in at second worst.

I don't think this study is entirely inaccurate...they use seven measures: on time arrivals, cancelled flights, extreme delays, 2-hour tarmac delays, mishandled baggage, IDB, and complaints. Might still be a little bit up for debate, but at least it isn't just making up rankings on a whim like Forbes on days that end in a "y." Of course, cost isn't considered in any of those rankings, but that's also explained in the article.

What I think is interesting is seeing how far UA has risen from being dead last in 2013 and 2014 to now being tied with B6 for #5. That generally matches my experiences. UA was an awful airline to fly around then.
Last edited by intotheair on Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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commavia
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:18 pm

Prost wrote:
Nothing Delta has done to operate efficiently is magic beans and secret sauce, American could do the same tomorrow with enough determination.

Now that they're finally consolidating EVERYTHING to one operating standard, and all employees rowing together I fully expect American's statisticis to improve.


I agree. I, too, expect AA's numbers to improve materially as it continues to put the merger integration further in the past. That said, AA does, indeed, have major work to do. Based on my own personal/anecdotal experience, I think AA's single biggest issue at this point - and that must be addressed - is reliability of the widebody fleet. The 77W fleet is scheduled fairly tightly, which all else equal shouldn't be a massive issue, but the level of long delays and cancellations indicate that some more proactive line maintenance may be necessary. And as for the 767s ... yikes. DFW-Hawaii, for example, is a veritable roulette wheel of delays and cancellations. It is a virtual guarantee that at least one, if not multiple, DFW-Hawaii flights on a daily basis will take an extreme (i.e., multi-hour) delay. I get that those planes are on their way out in the near future, but that is just not acceptable at all.
 
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:50 pm

simpv wrote:
UA has steadily moved up in the rankings. There is hope!


On that note, I just flew United this past weekend for the first time since 2009, and I was honestly very impressed. Everything, from the service to the employee interactions I had, were so vastly improved from what I remember, and I would definitely be willing to consider them again in the future. I've been a longtime Delta flyer, and they could stand to learn a few things from UA when it comes to handling the boarding process (and picking a decent coffee supplier). DL will probably stay my primary choice for the foreseeable future, but I'm not willing to write off UA as an option anymore like I was prior to this trip. Of course, everyone's mileage may vary, and my experience is purely anecdotal, but I definitely get the sense that Munoz has United heading in a good direction.
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SFOtoORD
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:00 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
Read the fine print at the bottom. It includes regional affiliates. That is huge, because it creates a much greater statistical means to measure them by and also because AA sometimes has zero control of operations within their regional affiliates. That means that AA's numbers will be enhanced 10 fold over companies like NK, B6, WN, F9, and VX who don't have regional affiliates. Also, the delays are measured by FlightStats, (for the record, I use them all the time) but they aren't always 100 percent accurate.


The airline chooses what products to put their brand on and from there they have to stand behind that product. Imagine doing this in any other business and claiming the affiliate shouldn't count. If Dom Perignon starts buying Cooks and putting theDom label on it. Or if Ford started putting their logo on a Yugo. Or if Starbucks started making their coffee using Folgers and putting it in their cup. It's just not defensible.

The others on that list not using regionals have made a business decision and if it provides customers w a better experience more power to them.

Btw - United must be having a party to not be at the bottom of this list.
 
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:02 pm

What's also missing, and is very important, is a range within each of the categories. For 2-hour tarmac delays, if the difference between 1st place and 9th place is 1 percentage point, that shouldn't carry as much weight as a 20-point spread within the cancelled or delayed flights category.

Plus, what makes an airline "the best" for any one person includes so many other subjective factors. Virgin America can be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but they don't serve my home airport (BNA) and Alaska only has one flight a day to SEA. It's like when USA Today write about Hawaiian having the best on-time record for the 7,000th consecutive month. A lot of stinking good that does me.

I have been flying AA extensively the past two years, both mainline and lots of Eagle, and I am a very satisfied customer. New planes, mostly friendly staff, excellent customer service (getting me on earlier flights, different seats, etc.) Congrats to the WSJ on making a pretty graphic, but I give zero dookies about this article.
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intotheair
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:45 pm

UltimateDelta wrote:
simpv wrote:
UA has steadily moved up in the rankings. There is hope!


On that note, I just flew United this past weekend for the first time since 2009, and I was honestly very impressed. Everything, from the service to the employee interactions I had, were so vastly improved from what I remember, and I would definitely be willing to consider them again in the future. I've been a longtime Delta flyer, and they could stand to learn a few things from UA when it comes to handling the boarding process (and picking a decent coffee supplier). DL will probably stay my primary choice for the foreseeable future, but I'm not willing to write off UA as an option anymore like I was prior to this trip. Of course, everyone's mileage may vary, and my experience is purely anecdotal, but I definitely get the sense that Munoz has United heading in a good direction.


Huh, interesting. I'm sort of the opposite — I've been flying mostly UA my entire life, but I cut back in 2014 and started sampling others, and I've since switched over to preferring DL. Part of that is because I'm now based in LAX, where DL has a nice network to say the least. But I actually like DL's boarding process better because C+ includes Sky boarding whereas UA E+ doesn't include priority boarding, meaning I have to climb over the Premiers who board before me. I also can't stand UA's cattle pen gate design. All it does is force people to line up way too far in advance. On one flight I took last month, 772 LAX-DEN, the flight was delayed by about 45 minutes, but that didn't stop all 350+ passengers from standing lined up for an hour! I liked the PMUA boarding process, and I guess the current one is better than the mess they went with after the merger, but I still think it's too many zones, where I feel like DL has it just right.

As for coffee, funny you should say that since UA was (I think) the first one to have Starbucks! I think Illy is better, but the Starbucks stuff isn't bad.

I think UA is headed in the right direction now, and it's seemingly a better airline than it was around 2013/2014, but DL really is at the top of their game right now.
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:19 pm

intotheair wrote:
Huh, interesting. I'm sort of the opposite — I've been flying mostly UA my entire life, but I cut back in 2014 and started sampling others, and I've since switched over to preferring DL. Part of that is because I'm now based in LAX, where DL has a nice network to say the least. But I actually like DL's boarding process better because C+ includes Sky boarding whereas UA E+ doesn't include priority boarding, meaning I have to climb over the Premiers who board before me. I also can't stand UA's cattle pen gate design. All it does is force people to line up way too far in advance. On one flight I took last month, 772 LAX-DEN, the flight was delayed by about 45 minutes, but that didn't stop all 350+ passengers from standing lined up for an hour! I liked the PMUA boarding process, and I guess the current one is better than the mess they went with after the merger, but I still think it's too many zones, where I feel like DL has it just right.

As for coffee, funny you should say that since UA was (I think) the first one to have Starbucks! I think Illy is better, but the Starbucks stuff isn't bad.

I think UA is headed in the right direction now, and it's seemingly a better airline than it was around 2013/2014, but DL really is at the top of their game right now.


You do raise some good points- I was in E+ for the whole trip and I was a little surprised that I was still in group 3. Still, it seemed to work out okay, and I don't think I had to step over anybody on any of the legs*. I thought that the five separate lines were good for keeping people in their assigned groups, whereas on DL, people seem to crowd the line regardless of where they are. If anything, I feel like Delta has too many zones- on the last flight I was on, I think it went super-deluxe-unicorn-riding-Medallion members-->less-important Medallions-->first class-->Sky-->Zones 1-4 (or however many there were- I may have that wrong somewhere), and it seems like they wait around a long time before moving on to the next one. My main gripe with Sky is that it's not limited to C+; the times I've been in it, the line is still 30+ people long, with all the people who paid $10 to get on a little earlier.

As I said earlier, though, I figure everyone's experience is different, but I was pleased with the positive impression UA left me with this time around.

*I did some research and it sounds like UA's groups start with back windows, then front windows, and then middle/aisles back-to-front. I almost always have window seats on DL, and I can't remember the last time that I didn't have to climb over someone to get to my seat. Somewhere in the boarding order, the aisle people seem to get there first in my experience.
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intotheair
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:41 pm

UltimateDelta wrote:
*I did some research and it sounds like UA's groups start with back windows, then front windows, and then middle/aisles back-to-front. I almost always have window seats on DL, and I can't remember the last time that I didn't have to climb over someone to get to my seat. Somewhere in the boarding order, the aisle people seem to get there first in my experience.


UA's system is a variation of WILMA. Group 3 is windows, Group 4 middles, and Group 5 aisles (and soon, Basic Economy ticket holders). If you're Premier etc. etc., you board in one of your ultra special times. If you have the Explorer credit card or buy early boarding, you board in Group 2. This now means that half the plane boards in Group 2, especially on hub-hub flights. Group 2 also doesn't include people like me who have held onto our pre-merger Select credit cards. If you're not a Premier, have the Explorer card, or buy early boarding, but buy E+, you board in 3/4/5 just as if you were in E-. A PNR with more two or more people get the highest boarding number, meaning that a couple seated in a window and a middle board in Group 3.

I don't think UA has ever done a staggered WILMA system as you say. US definitely did. I remember reading studies that suggested that staggered WILMA is the fastest way to board a plane in theory, but I don't remember it really being all that much faster, and they did away with it before they merged with AA.

Also another thing I've found in my experience is that DL C+ is usually priced a little more competitively than UA E+. UA has definitely raised the price of the E+ buy-ups to the point that I don't think it's even worth it on domestic flights anymore. $90 one way for an E+ window on LAX/SFO-DEN? No thanks. It also sucked when UA took confirmed free E+ at booking for Silvers, which was when I decided that my loyalty with them wasn't really worth pursuing. But then again, I've heard plenty of DL elites grumble about the weird upgrade checkbox system for C+.
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MIflyer12
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:01 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
Read the fine print at the bottom. It includes regional affiliates. That is huge, because it creates a much greater statistical means to measure them by and also because AA sometimes has zero control of operations within their regional affiliates.


DL and UA have regional affiliates - measured in ASMs - of roughly comparable size to AA. That's no excuse for AA's statistical performance. We're not talking anecdotes here - this is a snapshot of more than a million AA and AA Eagle flights and tens of millions of bags handled.
 
Prost
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:07 am

As I mentioned before, AA has a lot of motivated employees and management. They won't languish at the bottom forever. Now that they're working as a single carrier, their numbers will improve. Of course, the competition won't remain static, either.
 
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:16 am

intotheair wrote:
I don't think UA has ever done a staggered WILMA system as you say. US definitely did. I remember reading studies that suggested that staggered WILMA is the fastest way to board a plane in theory, but I don't remember it really being all that much faster, and they did away with it before they merged with AA.

That could well be- I did only check one website in trying to find that out, and it sounds like it was only partially right. In any case, it definitely seemed to go comparatively quickly. I can also see how it'd be hard to justify the normal price for E+- mine was included somehow in the reservation (I didn't book the trip myself), and it was nice, but not $90 worth of nice.
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Boeing778X
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:07 am

A load of crock.

We may not be perfect, but the jokers over at WSJ have obviously never been on NK! I certainly do my part to make AA a better airline.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
grbauc
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:20 am

diverdave wrote:
grbauc wrote:
Ive been happy with my AA flying last year EP. I just took AA to SMF from LAX and AA called me asking if I could get there a little early has they where afraid the fog would come in and delay my flight. I was at the airport and we took off from the gate 10 min early. I also fly DL a fair bit made GM last year and truthfully I feel DL has its act together more so then AA but with the way mergers played out Id say AA is on schedule.


I would expect that your experiences as an AAdvantage Executive Platinum member are not representative of the services that AA provides to its average customer. Life as an EP is pretty good, life as an average customer not so much. :)


Yep and that's why I clarified it. I have friends that fly coach with there family and my travel is almost always in J. Its still a sample in the totality of evidence I use to base my happiness with and the state of a company. I stated DL to be ahead clearly not just in reports but by experience. These reports I don't lay to much credence in. AA really does have work to do, especially in IROP's and a consistent product.

And to Clarify I pay for my J seats.
Last edited by grbauc on Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
winginit
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:25 am

grbauc wrote:
AA really does have work to do, especially in IROP's and a consistent product.


This. I flew 200k miles on AA last year in a healthy mix of domestic/international and economy/premium. For the most part, outside of notably more delays compared to when I fly Delta or virtually any foreign carrier, it was fine; but my biggest gripe was how quickly and routinely things would come completely undone during any sort of irregular operation environment irrespective of what airport I found myself in. Lousy communication, agents with poor attitudes, absurd wait times on the phone or in person, and an overall negative experience compared to what has happened in the past when my Delta, JetBlue, or Southwest flights have been cancelled or significantly delayed. I'm savvy enough to hedge against the seat roulette that is their international premium offerings, but I imagine many aren't so lucky - that piece at least appears to be rapidly changing now that the Zodiac seat debacle has been put to rest.
Last edited by winginit on Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
AEROFAN
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:28 am

grbauc wrote:
Ive been happy with my AA flying last year EP. I just took AA to SMF from LAX and AA called me asking if I could get there a little early has they where afraid the fog would come in and delay my flight. I was at the airport and we took off from the gate 10 min early. I also fly DL a fair bit made GM last year and truthfully I feel DL has its act together more so then AA but with the way mergers played out Id say AA is on schedule.


Sometimes (very few times) I wonder what goes on in peoples' minds... How many people taking AA flights are EP level customers, like you are? Is your experience representative of the average non-EP level customer?

SMDH
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itchief
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:30 am

AA will stay at the bottom. The decision to not upgrade ALL cabins with IFE and power will come back and bite them. I do not care about IFE but many do and Delta is putting it in every cabin. Short sided thinking in an age of so many wanting to be entertained at all times.

AA has upgraded seats on many LUS aircraft and what do you get, a new seat cover.
 
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:32 am

November 2016: I flew JetBlue- NYC to Barbados
December 2016: I flew AA- DCA/MIA/Barbados

Travel was in economy on all legs.
I can fully understand why Jet Blue is rated higher than AA.
“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” ~Harlan Ellison~
 
winginit
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:34 am

itchief wrote:
AA will stay at the bottom. The decision to not upgrade ALL cabins with IFE and power will come back and bite them. I do not care about IFE but many do and Delta is putting it in every cabin. Short sided thinking in an age of so many wanting to be entertained at all times.

AA has upgraded seats on many LUS aircraft and what do you get, a new seat cover.


I'm not sure I entirely agree with what you've said there, but I suppose either way if what you're saying is true the question becomes so long as they (AA) stay at or near the top in terms of profitability will they (and arguably should they) care? Maximizing shareholder returns - welcome to modern capitalism.
 
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:40 am

My last trip on TPA-CLT-LAS-CLT-TPA was great. And all my American flights before that have been excellent.
 
grbauc
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:47 am

itchief wrote:
AA will stay at the bottom. The decision to not upgrade ALL cabins with IFE and power will come back and bite them. I do not care about IFE but many do and Delta is putting it in every cabin. Short sided thinking in an age of so many wanting to be entertained at all times.

AA has upgraded seats on many LUS aircraft and what do you get, a new seat cover.


I don't agree with several things but I do agree on IFE. I know i've heard others arguments but with today's addicted to media not just youths but adults alike. Maybe it's DP meet half way, not fully in approach that bugs me. I like uniformity :bigthumbsup: If I'm in coach id gladly pay to use the media. Heck I pay for the wifi.
 
Prost
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:48 am

IFE doesn't really show up on the rating that this study uses
 
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:49 am

crazytoaster wrote:
piedmontf284000 wrote:
Read the fine print at the bottom. It includes regional affiliates. That is huge, because it creates a much greater statistical means to measure them by and also because AA sometimes has zero control of operations within their regional affiliates. That means that AA's numbers will be enhanced 10 fold over companies like NK, B6, WN, F9, and VX who don't have regional affiliates. Also, the delays are measured by FlightStats, (for the record, I use them all the time) but they aren't always 100 percent accurate.



I would argue against that. Most passengers don't know that they are on a regional affiliate and AA could bring all flying in house theoretically. To an everyday passenger if the ticket says AA then they must be flying on AA, they don't care if it was Republic or whomever. Also DL and UA also use many of the same regionals as AA so there data would be affected by the "negative" regionals.


Ten years ago I would have agreed with this. Not so much now. Perhaps to someone who flies once or twice a year, they may not know. Travelers have gotten more savvy. They know when they get on a cramped 50 seat jet, it's not actually operated by the airline whose logo is on the tail.
 
Curiousflyer
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:52 am

I have not flown AA a lot but I can only remember one really good experience, 9 years ago. Otherwise, I have dealt with average quality sometimes but also a lot of really bad service and poor attitude. As a result, the last 2-3 times AA was an option I flew DL, UA, BA or VS, even though it usually meant paying $100-200 more. I am not close to trying them again.
 
grbauc
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:32 am

commavia wrote:
Prost wrote:
Nothing Delta has done to operate efficiently is magic beans and secret sauce, American could do the same tomorrow with enough determination.

Now that they're finally consolidating EVERYTHING to one operating standard, and all employees rowing together I fully expect American's statisticis to improve.


I agree. I, too, expect AA's numbers to improve materially as it continues to put the merger integration further in the past. That said, AA does, indeed, have major work to do. Based on my own personal/anecdotal experience, I think AA's single biggest issue at this point - and that must be addressed - is reliability of the widebody fleet. The 77W fleet is scheduled fairly tightly, which all else equal shouldn't be a massive issue, but the level of long delays and cancellations indicate that some more proactive line maintenance may be necessary. And as for the 767s ... yikes. DFW-Hawaii, for example, is a veritable roulette wheel of delays and cancellations. It is a virtual guarantee that at least one, if not multiple, DFW-Hawaii flights on a daily basis will take an extreme (i.e., multi-hour) delay. I get that those planes are on their way out in the near future, but that is just not acceptable at all.


Sorta related here at LAX There massive expansion I are warmly welcomed but the ability to deliver with the many problems at LAX (many not AA fault) has left the operation a mess her at many times. It appears they have curtailed a bit here to help smooth things over. The massive confusion that occurs from the amount of gate changes can get crazy. My recent SMF flight had a gazillion gate changes, lucky the eagles nest is no problem navigating.
 
jumbojet
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:02 pm

It will take several years more for UA to emerge from its decades long funk. While customer service seems to have improved, not as many ML cancellations and delays its the onboard product that is going to be vastly different and antiquated for years to come. Sure, they 77W's will be delivered with the new 1-2-1 flatbed product, but it will still take quite a few years to retrofit the 767's and the 777's so for the majority of people flying UA, you will be flying on an antiquated flat bed Polaris cabin for a while. I have yet to see or read anything about retrofitting the 787 fleet so as you can clearly see, depending on what long haul flight your on, your going to experience vastly different seating experiences. At least with DL, if your on a widebody, you know what your getting, a flatbed direct aisle access cabin. AA is almost there, but UA still has some catching up to do.

To be honest, I am surprised that UA is still getting 787's delivered with the old business seat. The 787 flies a lot of hi profile routes, like SFO-SIN, you would think that UA would make that a priority over fixing up the aging 767 fleet which, by all means, probably won't be around long enough for UA to get its monies worth from the CAPEX spend. Some of UA's 767's are approaching the 22-24 year mark. Would love to see the 787's get the new seats and just let the 767's die out.
 
ckfred
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:14 pm

Any airline that goes through a merger will have issues, no matter how well the merger is planned. Let's see how well AA is doing a year or two from now, as most work groups are integrated.

Let's also remember that AA started rebanking the hubs last year, after about 10 years of rolling hubs. I'm sure there is a learning curve, especially at ORD, where the runway configuration is vastly different than when in the early or mid 2000s. It's hard to schedule a tight turn, when an inbound aircraft that is running 5 minutes late has a 20-minute taxi in from Runway 27R-9L.

That said, let's remember that AA only has true control of Envoy. Republic and SkyWest do as they please. The fact that SkyWest is now flying out of ORD, on routes that had been flown by Republic, shows that AA is trying to keep the system running smoothly.

Someone else mentioned the problems with the widebody fleet, and that is a concern. I was booked on a 772 ORD-MIA last March. The day before my departure, I happened to check and saw the flight was canceled. As it turns out, another 772 that was supposed to work a flight out of ORD to China the next day went tech, and the 772 that was supposed to fly to MIA was swapped. It took several phone calls to AA to get my family booked on another flight in the F cabin (we had cashed in miles).

But, as more 763s are retired and 789s arrive on the property (and at some point, A350s), on-time performance of flights operated by widebodies should improve.

That said, in Chicago, most people I know who fly AA are satisfied, while people I know who fly UA are still finding issues. The complaint I hear is that service, whether in the airport or on a plane, still remains inconsistent between PMCO and PMUA employees. Even in 2015, my wife had no trouble carrying on a standard-sized rollerboard at ORD (presumably PMUA employees at the gate) while at EWR, the employees were downright snotty and made her check a bag, despite her protest that he bag would fit in the overhead of a 737, as it did on ORD-EWR. Presumably, the employees at EWR were PMCO.

Needless to say, my wife shot off a memo to the corporate travel department at her company, explaining the issues she had at EWR and suggested that the company switch to AA, when the contract came up.
 
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LTU932
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:30 pm

I never had major problems with AA even though my luggage got left behind on my connection in LHR to DFW. I thought back then that it had to do with our weather delay wreaking havoc on my HAM-LHR segment but now I think the reasons for my bag getting stuck in LHR were possibly different.

When I flew AMS-PTY, on my way back to SJO, I had a tight connection because we were delayed in AMS and stronger than predicted headwinds, so my bags could've gotten lost in the process. Fortunately, I was able to retrieve all my bags when I arrived in SJO baggage claim. So even though my KL flight to PTY arrived like 20 minutes late and my connection time was thus less than 1.5 hours, they were still able to transfer my bags on my onward flight with CM to SJO.

So my bag shouldn't have gotten lost at LHR despite the transfer from T5 to T3 back then, so now I don't know if I should blame airport ops, the weather or BA/AA for it. It eventually took three days back then for my luggage to arrive in MIA and from there to SJO.

In terms of onboard service, I was satisfied with what AA has delivered, so no complaints from me. Only the luggage issue was a problem but that's it.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:03 pm

Well, looks likes the WSJ was wrong.

ATW names AA Airline of the year.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/air-trans ... 00321.html
 
JAAlbert
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:06 pm

As an earlier poster indicated, the article seems to be based on empirical data, such as canceled and delayed flights. If so, these problem areas should be verifiable. Delta has figured out how to minimize tech related delays, My question is what specifically can/must AA do to decrease canceled and delayed flights. Do they increase the number of spare aircraft available, change up the timing of the banks, give line employees more authority to resolve issues? What specific issues can AA address?

My anectodal experience with AA - as one of the unwashed masses riding in the back - is that the airline's service (or lack thereof) is akin to UA and Delta. At DFW our plane was delayed significantly due to an arriving passenger throwing up all over the economy cabin. It seemed to me that AA was so large, it took a half hour just for the maintenance and cleaning guys to travel from their station to our gate, and then over an hour to clean up the plane (they actually replaced the carpeting in a section.) I kid you not -- several mothers traveling with kids stated they could clean up a mess like that in minutes and offered their services. These sorts of things happen, but it surprised me that AA didn't have staff nearby ready for this sort of incident.
 
caverunner17
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:28 pm

Prost wrote:
IFE doesn't really show up on the rating that this study uses

Which is why when I help friends/family book Europe trips, I actively avoid AA. Their ghetto 767's should either be properly refinished (see Delta's 767) or retired. Even UA installed 110v power in Economy and had WiFi streaming entertainment on their 747's.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:30 pm

I find myself flying AA more and more lately. Flew them this past weekend DFW-LAX-DFW. On the outbound, my golf clubs missed the flight and were put on the next nonstop flight. Unfortunately, because I was driving to Palm Springs Friday evening, I could not wait at the airport for them to arrive. Filed a claim and a courier delivered them to the home I was staying at 3 hours from LAX at 7 am the next morning -- just in time to make my tee time.

I give AA a lot of credit for this. They did an amazing job.


I've been very happy with them lately.
Whatever
 
itchief
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Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:33 pm

grbauc wrote:
itchief wrote:
AA will stay at the bottom. The decision to not upgrade ALL cabins with IFE and power will come back and bite them. I do not care about IFE but many do and Delta is putting it in every cabin. Short sided thinking in an age of so many wanting to be entertained at all times.

AA has upgraded seats on many LUS aircraft and what do you get, a new seat cover.


I don't agree with several things but I do agree on IFE. I know i've heard others arguments but with today's addicted to media not just youths but adults alike. Maybe it's DP meet half way, not fully in approach that bugs me. I like uniformity :bigthumbsup: If I'm in coach id gladly pay to use the media. Heck I pay for the wifi.



With AA you will not get "uniformity".
LAA 321's all have new cabins with IFE and power, LUS 321's have no power no IFE but you do get new seat covers.
LAA 319's all have new cabins with IFE and power, LUS 319's have no power no IFE, again you do get new seat covers.
LAA 738's some have IFE and power some have NO IFE but they do have power.
LAA 757, LUS same same
LAA 767, old cabins unless you are in C.
LAA 777, even the updated aircraft are a mixed bag with 2 cabin designs in C, it is really 3 cabins because the 77W is different from the 772's.
LAA 787, the -8 and -9 you get different cabins in C

I have been PLT or EP on American for 10 plus years and it is such a mixed bag of what aircraft am I on today it is crazy. Delta has been able to make cabins standard across the fleet and make a profit.
 
alasizon
Posts: 2630
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:07 pm

AEROFAN wrote:
grbauc wrote:
Ive been happy with my AA flying last year EP. I just took AA to SMF from LAX and AA called me asking if I could get there a little early has they where afraid the fog would come in and delay my flight. I was at the airport and we took off from the gate 10 min early. I also fly DL a fair bit made GM last year and truthfully I feel DL has its act together more so then AA but with the way mergers played out Id say AA is on schedule.


Sometimes (very few times) I wonder what goes on in peoples' minds... How many people taking AA flights are EP level customers, like you are? Is your experience representative of the average non-EP level customer?

SMDH


Realistically, AA has a lot of elites especially post merger. I'd estimate 15-20% of most flights are either Platinum, Platinum Pro or Executive Platinum. It can feel very elite heavy at time and I have had flights where there were more elite fliers boarding than those boarding in the regular groups. Anecdotally, I had a PHX-SAT flight the other day, 22 EPs, 14 PPs, and another 17 Platinums were on board and surprisingly, all of the EPs and the PPs didn't give me a single fuss about their valet tagged bags that weren't going to fit in the overhead.

ckfred wrote:
That said, let's remember that AA only has true control of Envoy. Republic and SkyWest do as they please. The fact that SkyWest is now flying out of ORD, on routes that had been flown by Republic, shows that AA is trying to keep the system running smoothly.


AA also has control of Piedmont and PSA although not quite down to the same dominance that it has over Envoy. AA is vastly investing in the best on-time/quality product for all the regional flying. Mesa has had their flying trimmed so that they can fix themselves. OO is filling in nicely with CRJ-700s from the old UA contract, which although older, OO is doing their best to keep them up and running with minimal issues. Republic has gotten a lot of their act together and I think it will continue to improve. Mesa and Air Wisconsin are the only two left that really need to come leaps and bounds in order to deliver a good consistent product. AA recently has really started to realize you get what you pay for in the regional world (I'd say AA was behind DL in noticing and really focusing on that by about a year or two) and is certainly trying to turn itself around since a good chunk of our passengers start or end their trips on regionals.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
bigb
Posts: 1134
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

Re: AA Worst Airline in US per WSJ

Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:02 am

ckfred wrote:
That said, let's remember that AA only has true control of Envoy. Republic and SkyWest do as they please. The fact that SkyWest is now flying out of ORD, on routes that had been flown by Republic, shows that AA is trying to keep the system running smoothly.


Correction, AA only has full control of Envoy, Piedmont and PSA as they are wholly owned. However, AA is using skywest to fly CRJs out of DFW and Republic, Mesa and Air Wisconsin for additional regional lift.

alasizon wrote:


AA also has control of Piedmont and PSA although not quite down to the same dominance that it has over Envoy. AA is vastly investing in the best on-time/quality product for all the regional flying. Mesa has had their flying trimmed so that they can fix themselves. OO is filling in nicely with CRJ-700s from the old UA contract, which although older, OO is doing their best to keep them up and running with minimal issues. Republic has gotten a lot of their act together and I think it will continue to improve. Mesa and Air Wisconsin are the only two left that really need to come leaps and bounds in order to deliver a good consistent product. AA recently has really started to realize you get what you pay for in the regional world (I'd say AA was behind DL in noticing and really focusing on that by about a year or two) and is certainly trying to turn itself around since a good chunk of our passengers start or end their trips on regionals.


Piedmont, PSA, and Envoy are all 100 percent controlled by AA as they are wholly owned regional carriers.

Everyone else that flies for AA are seperate companies who were hired to provide additional lift.

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