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BTVB6Flyer
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LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:12 am

In the TBBJ's PDF link and in the segement article about CEO Lopano, he stated per the Airline (LH) that FRA-TPA is one of LH's most profitable routes in North America.

Obviously it's the CEO of an airport, saying this wihtout any external sources (i.e exaggerating), but there obviously has to be some merit to the statement and the statement from LH.

Thoughts? Anyone have any facts to this.

Interesting nonetheless, and would be interesting to see future INTL route development from TPA.

(Source is only PDF form)

http://www.fiba.io/wp-content/upload...0161230_si.pdf
 
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KTPAFlyer
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:24 am

Not surprised to hear this because FRA is the only real hub connecting TPA to the rest of the world, LGW is a complete joke. If I recall correctly, LGW does not have a single route to anywhere in Asia, which allows LH to take 100% of that traffic, not to mention anyone on the other side wanting to fly here. I have not flown Edelweiss, but I think that even though they have a small connecting network out of the ZRH hub, that is on Swiss, not Edelweiss, once again giving LH 100% of that traffic. That FRA flight is the best thing to ever happen to TPA, and if Lopano says it's doing great, I believe it. Thank you Lufthansa!

Image
 
MAH4546
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:26 am

A less than daily flight in a holiday configuration operated by a subsidiary isn't going to rank near the most profitable for anybody. Maybe he meant within the context of Cityline's long-haul operations.
a.
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:45 am

I am glad to hear this. I heard on the radio LH advertising - which really sounded like an add buy by TPA and not LH because the quality wasn't very good - and my first thought was crap, LH must be struggling at TPA.

I haven't flown it yet. We were going to take it this Jan, but decided on Vermont instead of Europe due to the wife being 6 months pregnant and not wanting to sit on a plane that long. We will probably take it next late Spring. Really hope it is doing well and still around.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:19 am

Sort of related, does anyone know how SJC-FRA is performing?
 
Cunard
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:04 am

KTPAFlyer wrote:
Not surprised to hear this because FRA is the only real hub connecting TPA to the rest of the world, LGW is a complete joke. If I recall correctly, LGW does not have a single route to anywhere in Asia, which allows LH to take 100% of that traffic, not to mention anyone on the other side wanting to fly here. I have not flown Edelweiss, but I think that even though they have a small connecting network out of the ZRH hub, that is on Swiss, not Edelweiss, once again giving LH 100% of that traffic. That FRA flight is the best thing to ever happen to TPA, and if Lopano says it's doing great, I believe it. Thank you Lufthansa!

Image


Although not totally relevant to your post but there are several routes to Asia from LGW to Hong Kong with Cathay Pacific on an A350 or with Tianjin Airlines to Chongqing and Tianjin on an A330 plus there is Emirates 3 x daily to Dubai on an A388 and you could even include Turkish 2 x daily to Istanbul.

So your assumption that LGW does not have a single route to Asia is totally incorrect.
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fraT
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:37 am

It's true that there are flights to Asia but what he probably meant is that there are no connections which you can use with cheap fares.
I doubt that BA would allow a EK/TK flight on such a cheap ticket, same with Chinese carriers. The only possibility could be CX since they are part of OneWorld.
 
jomur
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:12 am

If there was demand for profitable connections then I'm pretty sure BA would switch the flight to LHR instead of LGW.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:52 am

KTPAFlyer wrote:
Not surprised to hear this because FRA is the only real hub connecting TPA to the rest of the world, LGW is a complete joke.

Look closer to home. If there were demand for transfer, at fares sufficient to compel the airline, then it'd cater to that.

And yet, after years of serving that station, it's chosen not to-- when there's absolutely nothing stopping it from doing so if it saw a need... is a reflection of the market, not the airline.


KTPAFlyer wrote:
If I recall correctly, LGW does not have a single route to anywhere in Asia,

...you're not recalling correctly.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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KTPAFlyer
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:55 am

LAX772LR wrote:
If I recall correctly, LGW does not have a single route to anywhere in Asia,

...you're not recalling correctly.[/quote]

Last time I checked, BA does not operate any Asia flights from LGW...
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:15 am

KTPAFlyer wrote:
Last time I checked, BA does not operate any Asia flights from LGW.

Last time I checked, LGW isn't limited to BA.

If you tried searching instead of complaining, you'd notice that some sites will even sending you via LGW on a routing between Hong Kong and Tampa, for example.

Image
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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adamh8297
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:51 am

BA serves LGW-MLE seasonally.
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coachclass
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:32 am

This route is served by Lufthansa's Cityline, not Lufthansa per se. It's not quite like a charter but closer to a low cost carrier as I understand it. Relatives flew it last May (TPA-FRA) and enjoyed it.
 
MAH4546
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:55 am

There's very little traffic between Tampa and Asia, and it's not flying via Europe, so I don't understand the debate.
a.
 
axiom
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:46 am

coachclass wrote:
This route is served by Lufthansa's Cityline, not Lufthansa per se. It's not quite like a charter but closer to a low cost carrier as I understand it. Relatives flew it last May (TPA-FRA) and enjoyed it.


The consumer sees no distinction between LH and CH long haul in terms of cabin branding, service product or experience, minus the reduced J cabin size. It is an internal cost saving measure, so it's inappropriate to compare it to a charter or low cost carrier. This is the same configuration LH uses to serve PHL, SJC, and for a period ATL. It is misleading to suggest this is strictly a sun service -- it's not Eurowings.
 
airbazar
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:06 pm

KTPAFlyer wrote:
Not surprised to hear this because FRA is the only real hub connecting TPA to the rest of the world, LGW is a complete joke. If I recall correctly,

Connecting traffic is lower yield than O&D traffic and that alone might be why this route is supposedly doing well. I can't imagine that a lot of passengers on this route are connecting in FRA. Also, leisure destinations are not necessarily lower yield, otherwise there would be no flights to any leisure destination.
 
GVIIO
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:27 pm

I work the LH flight to TPA and a huge majority of our connecting passengers go to Asia. Cities in India, DXB, RUH, KWI BKK specifically, in addition connecting passengers are a huge majority of the flight in its entirety also. The flight has been doing great as of late and I have heard up the chain of command of possibly going daily and or switching to mainly due to the success of the premium/business seats being sold
 
GVIIO
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:28 pm

People are seriously mistaken, a lot of people to/from TPA are connecting in FRA and a lot of them come from Asia not just Europe. In addition, LH is making their money on freight as the flight exhausts all pallet positions/in and out of TPA
 
BTVB6Flyer
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:23 pm

The telling sign of if this route is so successful, is if it end up becoming daily and/or gets switched to a more premium configuration within LH itself.

That said, I wonder how many or what airlines see this, and tell help tempt them into the TPA market that maybe they were a bit hesitant before?
 
usflyer123
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:44 pm

Sounds pretty weird, I thought routes UA and LH fly alone, like FRA-IAH,FRA-IAD or FRA-DEN.
for most people the sky is the limit. for those who love aviation, the sky is home...
 
FLYKTPA
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:54 pm

GVIIO wrote:
People are seriously mistaken, a lot of people to/from TPA are connecting in FRA and a lot of them come from Asia not just Europe. In addition, LH is making their money on freight as the flight exhausts all pallet positions/in and out of TPA

Do you know how the Edelweiss flight is performing? Any talk of a frequency increase? Any rumors of new international airlines looking at TPA?
Huge fan of Tampa International Airport
 
GVIIO
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:50 am

As far as I know loads are good, no frequency increase but heard their pilots and their engineer say their expecting to see the A340. From what I hear the airport is constantly talking to new airlines.
 
GVIIO
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:53 am

At the moment, Thomas Cook could be a possibility as back in December they had a dry run their A330-300 stopped enroute from Havana to Copenhagen and offloaded pax and loaded pax(before people freak out and say I'm lying, I have picture evidence to prove it that it wasn't just a fuel stop) the company did this flight said it could become regular in the future. It arrived from Havana, parked at F88 offloaded pax and loaded new ones and the flight continued 3 hours later for Copenhagen
 
Tdan
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:54 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
Sort of related, does anyone know how SJC-FRA is performing?


Terrible this winter. Loads are really poor. BA was ok this summer to SJC but nowhere near SFO performance.
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FLYKTPA
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Sat May 13, 2017 1:15 pm

GVIIO wrote:
At the moment, Thomas Cook could be a possibility as back in December they had a dry run their A330-300 stopped enroute from Havana to Copenhagen and offloaded pax and loaded pax(before people freak out and say I'm lying, I have picture evidence to prove it that it wasn't just a fuel stop) the company did this flight said it could become regular in the future. It arrived from Havana, parked at F88 offloaded pax and loaded new ones and the flight continued 3 hours later for Copenhagen


Any more talk in the last 3 months about Lufthansa or other new airlines and routes?
Huge fan of Tampa International Airport
 
GVIIO
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Sat May 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Nothing yet other than the LH flight to TPA is going to become mainline however I'm not sure when
 
FLYKTPA
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Sat May 13, 2017 1:41 pm

GVIIO wrote:
Nothing yet other than the LH flight to TPA is going to become mainline however I'm not sure when

Exciting! Can't wait to see the Lufthansa logo at TPA.
Huge fan of Tampa International Airport
 
ASQ400
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Sun May 14, 2017 12:22 am

BTVB6Flyer wrote:
The telling sign of if this route is so successful, is if it end up becoming daily and/or gets switched to a more premium configuration within LH itself.

That said, I wonder how many or what airlines see this, and tell help tempt them into the TPA market that maybe they were a bit hesitant before?

It's a leisure destination, so switching to a premium config doesn't make sense. Leisure travel is heavily weighted towards coach, and the CityLine planes have plenty of that
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globalcabotage
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Sun May 14, 2017 12:40 am

I love TPA, but find it hard to believe a leisure destination outperforms F/J heavy routes like IAD/JFK/LAX/ORD. I could be wrong.
 
bayside319
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Sun May 14, 2017 1:09 am

Cool to hear. Just watched this flight take off from Cypress Point Park an hour or so ago. I had imagined it was mostly Germans visiting Clearwater beach, but I'm glad that TPA is producing a fair amount of INTL traffic. Now, I'd just love to see a Skyteam carrier launch a transatlantic flight from TPA...
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Sun May 14, 2017 2:38 am

Lopano can be prone to hyperbole.
 
dfwking
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Sun May 14, 2017 3:07 am

KTPAFlyer wrote:
Not surprised to hear this because FRA is the only real hub connecting TPA to the rest of the world, LGW is a complete joke. If I recall correctly, LGW does not have a single route to anywhere in Asia, which allows LH to take 100% of that traffic, not to mention anyone on the other side wanting to fly here. I have not flown Edelweiss, but I think that even though they have a small connecting network out of the ZRH hub, that is on Swiss, not Edelweiss, once again giving LH 100% of that traffic. That FRA flight is the best thing to ever happen to TPA, and if Lopano says it's doing great, I believe it. Thank you Lufthansa!

Image



While connecting traffic to the Middle East and South Asia could benefit from this flight, I doubt LH is taking "100%" of traffic to "anywhere in Asia." There are plenty of North American hubs that can handle the vast majority of Asia traffic from TPA.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Sun May 14, 2017 7:42 am

ASQ400 wrote:
It's a leisure destination, so switching to a premium config doesn't make sense. Leisure travel is heavily weighted towards coach

globalcabotage wrote:
I love TPA, but find it hard to believe a leisure destination outperforms F/J heavy routes like IAD/JFK/LAX/ORD. I could be wrong.

Sometimes people here get a bit too caught up in defining places as "leisure routes" or "business routes" without knowing what particular goals/commitments/contracts/etc that an airline may have carved out for itself there.

The exact same thing happened here when BA launched LHR-MSY instead of LGW-MSY... people howled to the moon about how could they "waste" an LHR slot on a "leisure route!" Yet, as soon as we get a few months of operational data, we quickly see that the J cabin routinely sells-out, even at prices $3,000 above a 1stop option in DFW, whereas the Y cabin often departs with 2dozen+ seats empty.

Who knew?
...oh wait, the airline did. They had the data from the start.

So, yeah, chances are that if LH is indeed going mainline on the route, then they believe they've attracted sufficient commitments to subvert the opportunity cost of taking a premium-configured aircraft and placing it there. Otherwise, they wouldn't do it. Plain and simple.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
kimimm19
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Sun May 14, 2017 8:44 am

KTPAFlyer wrote:
Not surprised to hear this because FRA is the only real hub connecting TPA to the rest of the world, LGW is a complete joke. If I recall correctly, LGW does not have a single route to anywhere in Asia, which allows LH to take 100% of that traffic, not to mention anyone on the other side wanting to fly here. I have not flown Edelweiss, but I think that even though they have a small connecting network out of the ZRH hub, that is on Swiss, not Edelweiss, once again giving LH 100% of that traffic. That FRA flight is the best thing to ever happen to TPA, and if Lopano says it's doing great, I believe it. Thank you Lufthansa!

Image


Sorry, small network out of Zurich? I wouldn't call that small, espeically when they serve many major Asian points like Tokyo, Shanghai, Beijing, Bangkok, Singapore, Dehli, Mumbai. That doesn't even take into account any African routes or the star alliance partners that can be connceted on in Zurich.
 
axiom
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Sun May 14, 2017 9:19 am

LAX772LR wrote:
ASQ400 wrote:
It's a leisure destination, so switching to a premium config doesn't make sense. Leisure travel is heavily weighted towards coach

globalcabotage wrote:
I love TPA, but find it hard to believe a leisure destination outperforms F/J heavy routes like IAD/JFK/LAX/ORD. I could be wrong.

Sometimes people here get a bit too caught up in defining places as "leisure routes" or "business routes" without knowing what particular goals/commitments/contracts/etc that an airline may have carved out for itself there.

The exact same thing happened here when BA launched LHR-MSY instead of LGW-MSY... people howled to the moon about how could they "waste" an LHR slot on a "leisure route!" Yet, as soon as we get a few months of operational data, we quickly see that the J cabin routinely sells-out, even at prices $3,000 above a 1stop option in DFW, whereas the Y cabin often departs with 2dozen+ seats empty.

Who knew?
...oh wait, the airline did. They had the data from the start.

So, yeah, chances are that if LH is indeed going mainline on the route, then they believe they've attracted sufficient commitments to subvert the opportunity cost of taking a premium-configured aircraft and placing it there. Otherwise, they wouldn't do it. Plain and simple.



+1

Keep in mind that LH has been in the TPA market via WK for nearly 6 years -- and WK has been consistently selling lie flat seats to ZRH at a reasonable profit (TPA's service on WK has grown, and is year round).

TPA is no MIA, but it is the gateway to a region with 4+ million people, with plenty of high quality attractions that are actively positioning themselves in international markets. While TPA doesn't have the same economic gravity as a comparably sized region like MSP, it's still a large market with significant global business ties -- and, as in any growing metro, there are boosters working over time to strengthen those connections through various incentives. This isn't amateur hour.
 
GVIIO
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Sun May 14, 2017 1:33 pm

In working on the flight myself I see on a regular basis a lot of people connecting to Asia granted mainly the middle east and India not so much east asia, but a lot of BOM, DEL, BLR, KWI, JED, TLV etc in addition yes the premium cabin has been a huge success thus far despite being a leisure destination.
 
GVIIO
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Sun May 14, 2017 1:35 pm

Furthermore is flight is a shoein to become daily also
 
ikramerica
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Re: LH's FRA-TPA "one of LH's most profitable routes in N.A"

Sun May 14, 2017 1:45 pm

With Edelweiss, do they employ any ground staff? I've been at TPA where the checkin line stretches to the center and around the corner and doesn't seem to move.
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