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Swadian
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Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:30 am

AA's current 777-300ER is configured 8F/52J/250Y, for a total of 310 seats. AA will be installing Premium Economy in these aircraft and are also keeping MCE. I imagine that AA will replace the current MCE section with W and remove a row of Y to create a 10-abreast MCE cabin (no more 9-abreast MCE). I'm not sure how many W seats AA can install in the current MCE section, but assuming that they move back the partitions between MCE and Y a bit, they could put in 3 rows of 2-4-2 - 24 seats, or perhaps they would put in 4 rows. Maybe the center section would have an extra row.

Then the AA 77W will have either 8F/52J/24W/213Y (297 seats) or 8F/52J/32W/203Y (295 seats). This is just speculation, but whatever actually happens, even if AA goes to 10-abreast MCE, the 77W will have (unless they tear out J seats - unlikely) less seats than UA's 77W (366 seats) or DL's A359 (306 seats). If AA ordered the 779 and filled all the extra length with Y seats, they would still have probably no more than about 337 seats in a 8F/52J/24W/253Y configuration.

It has been suggested that the 779 is too big for US carriers and that AA doesn't need the capacity since they have plenty of 77Ws, but 337 seats isn't that many and the number would be even less if AA used the extra length of the 779 for more J or W seats. AA could use the 779 for DFW-HKG, DFW-GRU, DFW-LHR, LAX-LHR, LAX-HKG, and LAX-SYD, while the 77W could take over all JFK-LHR and MIA-LHR.

Thoughts?
 
Vctony
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:39 am

AA would more than likely order the A35J over the 779 if it needs any more large twin lift.
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:50 am

The claim that the 777X is "too big" for US Airlines is pretty baseless at this point, now that 2 carriers now operate not only the 777 and 787, but specifically the 777-300ER. The 777-9 is a logical addition to an airline like AA.

AA is the most likely North American carrier, along with AC, to operate the 777X. Not only can it easily be integrated, but they also have the network to support the type. Right now, the 77W is used on Premium routes from AAs hubs, and those markets will only grow in the years ahead. The route you listed are pretty much all of them. I wouldn't be surprised if AA opened more.

AA is also an airline that operated the 77W in a 10Y configuration, which is the default for the 777X.

Will they order it "anytime soon?" Probably not in the near future, but certainly by the early 2020s, especially if DFW further expands with Terminal F, but I am convinced AA will order the 779. I think they prefer to have hard data as testing commences next year.
Last edited by Boeing778X on Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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RL777
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:51 am

Unlikely, if anything I could potentially see an order for more 77Ws should AA see the need for more capacity in that mission segment.
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:03 am

RL777 wrote:
Unlikely, if anything I could potentially see an order for more 77Ws should AA see the need for more capacity in that mission segment.


I don't see that happening. By the time AA will need additional capacity in that mission segment, the 77W will probably be out of production or sold out.
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:07 am

I could see AA ordering the 779---especially with many key destinations being slot-restricted. That said, the 359 or 35K is more likely. Delta, however, could have use for the 779 on a lot of routes, such as ATL-JNB, many routes out of DTW, LAX to SYD, and maybe even JFK-TLV (to compete against El Al on that route---that route used to be flown by a 747).
 
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Stitch
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:10 am

I don't see AA, UA or DL as a customer for the 777-9 anytime soon (as in the next decade).
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:13 am

Stitch wrote:
I don't see AA, UA or DL as a customer for the 777-9 anytime soon (as in the next decade).


Not DL. I going to guess that they will pick up the A350-1000. AA for sure, and after that UA rumor, perhaps UA.
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deltal1011man
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:20 am

Stitch wrote:
I don't see AA, UA or DL as a customer for the 777-9 anytime soon (as in the next decade).

exactly. All are much more likely to go with the A350-1000. 777X doesn't make sense for any of them.

Only reason I see a 777X order is if an airline like DL needed it for a 77L replacement, but my understanding is the 359 should be able to do JNB-ATL non-stop.
 
Vctony
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:22 am

Vctony wrote:
AA would more than likely order the A35J over the 779 if it needs any more large twin lift.


I meant A35K but I couldn't edit my last post.
 
EddieDude
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:32 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I could see AA ordering the 779---especially with many key destinations being slot-restricted. That said, the 359 or 35K is more likely. Delta, however, could have use for the 779 on a lot of routes, such as ATL-JNB, many routes out of DTW, LAX to SYD, and maybe even JFK-TLV (to compete against El Al on that route---that route used to be flown by a 747).

Actually, of the three large U.S. carriers, I think DL is the least likely to go for the 779.

AA did not have the 744 but they do have a sizeable fleet of 77Es, and they are finding the 77W to be a great plane for their busy premium routes. UA does have 744s (on the way out), and they decided to bring in the 77W to have VLAs for their busiest routes. DL on the other hand has mentioned that it intends to rationalize capacity and have been clear that the 744 is too big for them; the fact that they have not placed a last minute order for the 77W or opted for the A350-1000 is a sign that DL thinks the largest aircraft in their fleet should be the 77E/77L and the A359. Some very big changes would need to take place in the coming years in order for DL to go for the 779.
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Boeing778X
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:33 am

deltal1011man wrote:
Stitch wrote:
I don't see AA, UA or DL as a customer for the 777-9 anytime soon (as in the next decade).

exactly. All are much more likely to go with the A350-1000. 777X doesn't make sense for any of them.

Only reason I see a 777X order is if an airline like DL needed it for a 77L replacement, but my understanding is the 359 should be able to do JNB-ATL non-stop.


In case you didn't notice, UA has 35x A350-1000s on order.

I will ask this question again. When did ordering the 777X/A35K make the other redundant?

The 777X makes perfect sense for AA, and less so for UA. It doesn't make any sense for DL.
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jfk777
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:45 am

Flew the 77W in J class Miami to LHR to MIA last August, the MCE section is already partioned with J as well as Y class. Why would AA have the planes delivered that way unless that is where Premium Economy is going to be. 779 or 77W only AA needs to either ditch First Class or invest in a new First Class Suite beyond either JAL or Cathay. AA needs to make statement with First Class which may not fit its image today, Business Class could be where AA needs to do the talking.

77W J class is as good as it gets, Air France and Cathay have the same seat which is a Cathay seat. AA could teach its first English cousin BA about J class seats since Club World is dated and silly in today's airline market. The BA new A350 should have new seats not an evolution of the current one.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:18 am

deltal1011man wrote:
Only reason I see a 777X order is if an airline like DL needed it for a 77L replacement, but my understanding is the 359 should be able to do JNB-ATL non-stop.

Just like the MD-11 should have been able to do SIN-ZRH non-stop. The 778 will perform much better out of JNB and DL will be able to make more money hauling lots of cargo.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:22 am

AA could use the 779 to reintroduce 9-abreast Y. The extra length could make up for all the lost seats. All the seats could be wider and more comfortable.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:36 am

blacksoviet wrote:
AA could use the 779 to reintroduce 9-abreast Y. The extra length could make up for all the lost seats. All the seats could be wider and more comfortable.


Why would they do that? The 779 interior is wider than current 777's and it's unlikely anyone will have 9 abreast Y.

It seems unlikely to me that AA will order 779's anytime soon if ever given the 77W fleet is brand new.
 
Sooner787
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:19 am

Stitch wrote:
I don't see AA, UA or DL as a customer for the 777-9 anytime soon (as in the next decade).


I agree, AA didn't take their first 77E until they had been in service for 5 years,
if AA were to order either the 777X or A35J , it would be 8-10 years from now
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:48 am

Sooner787 wrote:
AA didn't take their first 77E until they had been in service for 5 years

Hadn't been in service for 2yrs before AA got it.
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RL777
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:53 am

jfk777 wrote:
Flew the 77W in J class Miami to LHR to MIA last August, the MCE section is already partioned with J as well as Y class. Why would AA have the planes delivered that way unless that is where Premium Economy is going to be. 779 or 77W only AA needs to either ditch First Class or invest in a new First Class Suite beyond either JAL or Cathay. AA needs to make statement with First Class which may not fit its image today, Business Class could be where AA needs to do the talking.

77W J class is as good as it gets, Air France and Cathay have the same seat which is a Cathay seat. AA could teach its first English cousin BA about J class seats since Club World is dated and silly in today's airline market. The BA new A350 should have new seats not an evolution of the current one.


AA still has work to do, but I've been very impressed with their cabin product turnaround over the past 3-4 years.
 
Swadian
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:52 pm

AA could order both the A35K and 779. The A35K will have less capacity than an AA 77W since AA uses 10-abreast in the 77W. And AA's 77W will soon have less capacity than a DL A359 and much less capacity than a UA 77W. So, if AA wants a plane with more than 300 seats, they have to go larger than the 77W and go for the 779. And I'm thinking AA wants a plane with over 300 seats sooner rather than later.

Again, AA's 77W will have LESS capacity than DL's A359! Hardly "heavy lift"!

Those replies that say AA will order A35K instead of 779 seem to neglect how low the AA 77W will get in terms of capacity after W is installed. Again, 779 and A35K are not mutually exclusive.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:59 pm

RL777 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Flew the 77W in J class Miami to LHR to MIA last August, the MCE section is already partioned with J as well as Y class. Why would AA have the planes delivered that way unless that is where Premium Economy is going to be. 779 or 77W only AA needs to either ditch First Class or invest in a new First Class Suite beyond either JAL or Cathay. AA needs to make statement with First Class which may not fit its image today, Business Class could be where AA needs to do the talking.

77W J class is as good as it gets, Air France and Cathay have the same seat which is a Cathay seat. AA could teach its first English cousin BA about J class seats since Club World is dated and silly in today's airline market. The BA new A350 should have new seats not an evolution of the current one.


AA still has work to do, but I've been very impressed with their cabin product turnaround over the past 3-4 years.


??? LAA had a pretty good product actually. LCC management did everything in their power to completely destroy it. Yes they've reversed the worst of the cutbacks, but IMO they should get zero credit whatsoever. You don't get credit for fixing something that wasn't broken in the first place. Discount Dougie would charge for water in F if he could.
 
Austin787
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:03 am

Swadian wrote:
AA could order both the A35K and 779. The A35K will have less capacity than an AA 77W since AA uses 10-abreast in the 77W. And AA's 77W will soon have less capacity than a DL A359 and much less capacity than a UA 77W. So, if AA wants a plane with more than 300 seats, they have to go larger than the 77W and go for the 779. And I'm thinking AA wants a plane with over 300 seats sooner rather than later.

Again, AA's 77W will have LESS capacity than DL's A359! Hardly "heavy lift"!

Those replies that say AA will order A35K instead of 779 seem to neglect how low the AA 77W will get in terms of capacity after W is installed. Again, 779 and A35K are not mutually exclusive.


AA could remove a few J rows, or remove F entirely, when they install Premium Eco on the 77W, which would keep the seat count above 300 seats.
 
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intotheair
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:24 am

I wouldn't rule it out completely, but I think it's not the right product for the US3, all of whom have multiple longhaul hubs and JV partners on more or less both oceans, allowing them to transport passengers through a number of better optimized routings. 425 seats are only good enough if you think you can make money selling all 425 seats and consistently on several routes. Is that worth the risk? Sure, air travel may grow in time, but what if it doesn't, oil shoots up, and the US3 all become unprofitable again? The US air market is much more risk averse than it has ever been and is weary of growing capacity excessively.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
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Boeing778X
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:23 am

Swadian wrote:
AA could order both the A35K and 779. The A35K will have less capacity than an AA 77W since AA uses 10-abreast in the 77W. And AA's 77W will soon have less capacity than a DL A359 and much less capacity than a UA 77W. So, if AA wants a plane with more than 300 seats, they have to go larger than the 77W and go for the 779. And I'm thinking AA wants a plane with over 300 seats sooner rather than later.

Again, AA's 77W will have LESS capacity than DL's A359! Hardly "heavy lift"!

Those replies that say AA will order A35K instead of 779 seem to neglect how low the AA 77W will get in terms of capacity after W is installed. Again, 779 and A35K are not mutually exclusive.


No they are not, indeed. In fact, they are a great pair.

AA could actually order the A35K along with the 779, as adding both with be a cinch in a few years.

If we remove the A333s, 763s and 77Es, AA's wide body fleet like so would make them very versatile:

15x A332
20x 788
25-35x 789
25-35x A359
20x A35K
20x 77W
20x 779

It is very possible AA could order both.
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ahj2000
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:25 am

intotheair wrote:
I wouldn't rule it out completely, but I think it's not the right product for the US3, all of whom have multiple longhaul hubs and JV partners on more or less both oceans, allowing them to transport passengers through a number of better optimized routings. 425 seats are only good enough if you think you can make money selling all 425 seats and consistently on several routes. Is that worth the risk? Sure, air travel may grow in time, but what if it doesn't, oil shoots up, and the US3 all become unprofitable again? The US air market is much more risk averse than it has ever been and is weary of growing capacity excessively.

That's my thought too. There aren't a whole ton of routes where any US carrier could use 425 seats. If AA goes for a more premium 375/400 seats, maybe they could serve places like HND/HKG/SYD/LHR/GRU, but it wouldn't surprise me to see that they wanted more frequency rather than extra capacity.
OTOH, if they can't get slots (China/Haneda/Hong Kong) than maybe the 9X is a good idea for AA. (Not to mention fuel savings)
-Andrés Juánez
 
DeSpringbokke
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:35 am

The answer is no as the 777-300ERs are all four years old or less. Its going to be a very long time before there is a replacement for these planes. The more prescient question is what will AA end up doing to replace the 777-200ERs. Even though they are undergoing a major refit at HAECO, they'll need to be replaced starting in ten years give or take a couple of years. If I'm not mistaken, AA has 58 Dreamliner options. My guess is AA will end up exercising those options as 787-10s to fully replace the 777-200ER fleet. Its possible the A330-200s will be parked at the same time as they use similar RR Trent engines. A big reason why AA is parking the A330-300s starting this year is the unique PW engine to AA's fleet and heavy maintenance on those engines will be required starting this year into next.

As for an eventual replacement for the 777-300ERs for AA, then yes, the 777-9X will definitely be a favourite to replace this fleet unless Airbus launches a stretched A350-2000/8000/1100/whatever Airbus will designate the new stretched A350-1000.
 
SCAT15F
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:09 am

First things first. AA's new livery is so hideous and tacky that the very sight of an aircraft larger than the 773ER painted in it would cause eye damage if not permanent blindness.
 
ahj2000
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:54 am

DeSpringbokke wrote:
The answer is no as the 777-300ERs are all four years old or less. Its going to be a very long time before there is a replacement for these planes. The more prescient question is what will AA end up doing to replace the 777-200ERs. Even though they are undergoing a major refit at HAECO, they'll need to be replaced starting in ten years give or take a couple of years. If I'm not mistaken, AA has 58 Dreamliner options. My guess is AA will end up exercising those options as 787-10s to fully replace the 777-200ER fleet. Its possible the A330-200s will be parked at the same time as they use similar RR Trent engines. A big reason why AA is parking the A330-300s starting this year is the unique PW engine to AA's fleet and heavy maintenance on those engines will be required starting this year into next.

As for an eventual replacement for the 777-300ERs for AA, then yes, the 777-9X will definitely be a favourite to replace this fleet unless Airbus launches a stretched A350-2000/8000/1100/whatever Airbus will designate the new stretched A350-1000.

I don't think 779Xs necessarily need to be a replacement. They are 40 some odd seats bigger, more fuel efficient, and if B stays true to their word, more comfy with a wider cabin designed for 3-4-3.
Regarding 772s, I think it is not neccesarily the 7810's win. The 339neo and more 359 with a potential 35K would also be good TATL opiates. The reality is AA is no longer Boeing/McDD loyal, and has all three potential A/C types in their fleet already.
-Andrés Juánez
 
PDX88
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:11 am

SCAT15F wrote:
First things first. AA's new livery is so hideous and tacky that the very sight of an aircraft larger than the 773ER painted in it would cause eye damage if not permanent blindness.


Thank you for your hilarious and original joke! I'll never get tired of hearing someone complain about their livery on EVERY AA thread. /s
 
DeSpringbokke
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:31 am

ahj2000 wrote:
I don't think 779Xs necessarily need to be a replacement. They are 40 some odd seats bigger, more fuel efficient, and if B stays true to their word, more comfy with a wider cabin designed for 3-4-3.
Regarding 772s, I think it is not neccesarily the 7810's win. The 339neo and more 359 with a potential 35K would also be good TATL opiates. The reality is AA is no longer Boeing/McDD loyal, and has all three potential A/C types in their fleet already.


I don't see where AA could place these aircraft in their network alongside the fleet of 777-300ERs. While Boeing claims the 777-9X will be the most fuel efficient large widebody available, it makes little sense to introduce the type into the fleet while AA has 20 777-300ERs. I honestly don't understand this a.net obsession with AA ordering the 777-9X while their 777-300ER fleet won't be replaced for at least twenty years.

The 777-200ERs are almost entirely removed from Trans-Pacific flying, with the exception of DFW/LAX-TYO. As a result, I doubt AA will add more A350-900s since they will end up being used on 12+ flights as the 777-200ERs will be on mostly flights 12 hours and under. If AA ends up ordering the A35K its going to be to replace the 777-300ER way down the road, if AA decides that they cannot fill the 777-9X. I should have clarified in my earlier post that AA will either choose the 787-10 or A330-900NEO to replace the 777-200ERs. I say the 787-10s are the favourite due to the 787 already being in the fleet, especially the 95% commonality with AA's 22 787-9s, and the 58 Dreamliner options. Since they would be replacing aircraft using on flights 12 hours and under, the 787-10 has the edge over the A330-900NEO. The difference between the two is A330-900NEO is the same size as the 777-200ER and much cheaper. When the RFP for the 777-200ER goes out, if Airbus offers a great deal on the A330-900NEOs, AA will gladly order them over the 787-10. Availability and price will the prime determinants as usual but the easy commonality between the 787-9 and 787-10 would make it a very easy induction into the fleet.
 
bigb
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:57 am

If they did, it wouldn't happen during the next 5 years. They are getting ready to bring the A350s on property and already have sims for the aircraft on property.
 
B752OS
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:54 pm

So if the 777X wouldn't work well for UA, DL and AA, who will it work well for? This is another thread where it seems the 350 is a superior product to a Boeing product.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:03 pm

B752OS wrote:
So if the 777X wouldn't work well for UA, DL and AA, who will it work well for? This is another thread where it seems the 350 is a superior product to a Boeing product.


IIRC the 77X order book is over 75% from the ME3, and that is basically your answer.
 
waly777
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:20 pm

intotheair wrote:
I wouldn't rule it out completely, but I think it's not the right product for the US3, all of whom have multiple longhaul hubs and JV partners on more or less both oceans, allowing them to transport passengers through a number of better optimized routings. 425 seats are only good enough if you think you can make money selling all 425 seats and consistently on several routes. Is that worth the risk? Sure, air travel may grow in time, but what if it doesn't, oil shoots up, and the US3 all become unprofitable again? The US air market is much more risk averse than it has ever been and is weary of growing capacity excessively.


Quick correction, AA going from 77W to 779 will not have 425 seats. IIRC AA has 306 on the 77W and give or take 30 seats max, an AA 4 class 779 will not exceed 340 seats.

The 425 figure you've quoted is Boeing marketing brochure number for a 2 class 779. In that config a 77W seats 396. The -9 is marginally larger then the 77W.

On topic, AA is unlikely to order the -9 anytime this decade but it will be the logical replacement for their 77W eventually. The 35K will seat less in a similar config.
The test of first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold 2 opposed ideas in the mind concurrently, and still function
 
jfk777
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:24 pm

Austin787 wrote:
Swadian wrote:
AA could order both the A35K and 779. The A35K will have less capacity than an AA 77W since AA uses 10-abreast in the 77W. And AA's 77W will soon have less capacity than a DL A359 and much less capacity than a UA 77W. So, if AA wants a plane with more than 300 seats, they have to go larger than the 77W and go for the 779. And I'm thinking AA wants a plane with over 300 seats sooner rather than later.

Again, AA's 77W will have LESS capacity than DL's A359! Hardly "heavy lift"!

Those replies that say AA will order A35K instead of 779 seem to neglect how low the AA 77W will get in terms of capacity after W is installed. Again, 779 and A35K are not mutually exclusive.


AA could remove a few J rows, or remove F entirely, when they install Premium Eco on the 77W, which would keep the seat count above 300 seats.


Why would AA want to remove First or Business seats from the 77W ? They already reduced the F cabin from the 16 on the 772 to 8 on the 77W. The J class seats produce plenty of revenue especially on the long routes to Sydney and Hong Kong. AA 77W are planes used on routes where the F & J seats sell, more Y seats are not the universal problem solving solution.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:55 pm

Will Boeing ever build a twin-jet larger than the 779?
 
georgiabill
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:11 pm

In the short term I could see AA may be taking 6-10 additional 77W'S if the Price is correct. In the future I could see the 779 in AA fleet assuming no major financial crisis or downturn in the economy.
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:26 am

Why does AA need to retire the 77Ws before getting any 779s? It seems like other airlines who ordered 779s are keeping their 77Ws.
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Swadian
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:33 am

georgiabill wrote:
In the short term I could see AA may be taking 6-10 additional 77W'S if the Price is correct. In the future I could see the 779 in AA fleet assuming no major financial crisis or downturn in the economy.


Agreed, with Boeing eager to fill the production gap and AA's 77Ws low on capacity (less than 300 seats, as I stated in the OP), I could see AA ordering a few more 77Ws with possibly no F and just 64J or 68J instead of 52J.

Again, an AA 779 would have most likely no more than 340 seats, which hardly precludes them taking ~10 around 2020 in addition to some A35Ks and more 789s to replace the 77Es. AA may wait for PIPs on the 789 before exercising more options or even take more post-PIP 788s to get rid of the last 763s. After refits are done, AA may not start replacing the 77E until 2023.

The A332 will probably remain a small subfleet.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:33 am

Boeing778X wrote:
Why does AA need to retire the 77Ws before getting any 779s? It seems like other airlines who ordered 779s are keeping their 77Ws.


Ok well thats possible but you were saying they could have 20 A35J's 20 779's and 20 77W's so from 0 to 60 300+seaters.
 
alfa164
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:42 am

PDX88 wrote:
SCAT15F wrote:
First things first. AA's new livery is so hideous and tacky that the very sight of an aircraft larger than the 773ER painted in it would cause eye damage if not permanent blindness.


Thank you for your hilarious and original joke! I'll never get tired of hearing someone complain about their livery on EVERY AA thread. /s

Deservedly so.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:29 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
Why does AA need to retire the 77Ws before getting any 779s? It seems like other airlines who ordered 779s are keeping their 77Ws.


Ok well thats possible but you were saying they could have 20 A35J's 20 779's and 20 77W's so from 0 to 60 300+seaters.


For an airline the size of AA, I'd say it's within the realm of possibility, sure. I think when you factor in the A350-900s (with it, the establishment of a new subfleet), eventual 77E and A330 retirements, growth of premium destinations and even a little expansion over the next 6-8 years, 20 each of the A350-1000 and 777-9 make perfect sense.
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Swadian
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:48 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
Why does AA need to retire the 77Ws before getting any 779s? It seems like other airlines who ordered 779s are keeping their 77Ws.


Ok well thats possible but you were saying they could have 20 A35J's 20 779's and 20 77W's so from 0 to 60 300+seaters.


For an airline the size of AA, I'd say it's within the realm of possibility, sure. I think when you factor in the A350-900s (with it, the establishment of a new subfleet), eventual 77E and A330 retirements, growth of premium destinations and even a little expansion over the next 6-8 years, 20 each of the A350-1000 and 777-9 make perfect sense.


Also, once W is installed in the 77W, the capacity is going down to ~297. Assuming that the 9-abreast A35K will have slightly less seats than the 10-abreat 77W, it could have only ~290 seats. So, the 779s would be on the only 300+ seaters unless AA orders a few more 77Ws without F.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:46 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
I wonder if those few people hate the livery because of the flag tail. Old Glory has quite a bit of hatred for her from those on the far left :(


As one of the board's well known lefties I hated the livery when I first saw it, but it wasn't because the flag was being used, it was the childish, cartoonish way it was being used.

And after a while it's grown on me, and there are times I see it and really think it's great. Good lighting can really make the colors shine, however in average or poor lighting it's pretty dull looking.

And it's strange how the righties think they own patriotism and religion. I thought all citizens had equal rights and God loved everyone. Or do you think you're entitled to more rights and more of God's graces just because you think of yourself as righteous and superior?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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Revelation
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:20 am

Boeing778X wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
I wonder if those few people hate the livery because of the flag tail. Old Glory has quite a bit of hatred for her from those on the far left :(


As one of the board's well known lefties I hated the livery when I first saw it, but it wasn't because the flag was being used, it was the childish, cartoonish way it was being used.

And after a while it's grown on me, and there are times I see it and really think it's great. Good lighting can really make the colors shine, however in average or poor lighting it's pretty dull looking.

And it's strange how the righties think they own patriotism and religion. I thought all citizens had equal rights and God loved everyone. Or do you think you're entitled to more rights and more of God's graces just because you think of yourself as righteous and superior?


Come now, Revelation, you know perfectly well I don't mean people like you.

I said Far Left, and was very careful to word it that way. The people who are out burning flags, saying cops suck and think the US is illegitimate are who I'm referring to, and there are probably some on here who are. If those aren't your views, I am not directing it at you, and I applaud you for your honesty.

And also, please do not imply I am a "Rightie", I would never dream of it. And also, please do not imply that I have a superiority complex or am self righteous.

Now, regarding the subject, direct sunlight brings out the best of the livery. The color palette of the livery chosen is very saturated.


I should have steered away from the politics. We really don't need to debate it here. So, let's drop it and move on, together.

Back to the topic, and yes, the colors are saturated so that's a good reason why the direct sunlight helps. I hadn't correlated the two, so, thanks!
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
uberflieger
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:36 am

Swadian wrote:
AA's current 777-300ER is configured 8F/52J/250Y, for a total of 310 seats. AA will be installing Premium Economy in these aircraft and are also keeping MCE. I imagine that AA will replace the current MCE section with W and remove a row of Y to create a 10-abreast MCE cabin (no more 9-abreast MCE)

I will be shocked if Parker doesn't seize on this to increase the total number of seats. My guess: 8 / 44 / 21 / 40 / 220 = 333. An increase of 23 seats by replacing 2 rows of B/C with 3 Premium Economy and making Y+ 10 across, a 7%+ increase in onboard real estate. Nope, I don't see the 77X in American's future and expect the widebody fleet to eventually be 787/A350 variants to reduce complexity.
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:50 am

uberflieger wrote:
Swadian wrote:
AA's current 777-300ER is configured 8F/52J/250Y, for a total of 310 seats. AA will be installing Premium Economy in these aircraft and are also keeping MCE. I imagine that AA will replace the current MCE section with W and remove a row of Y to create a 10-abreast MCE cabin (no more 9-abreast MCE)

I will be shocked if Parker doesn't seize on this to increase the total number of seats. My guess: 8 / 44 / 21 / 40 / 220 = 333. An increase of 23 seats by replacing 2 rows of B/C with 3 Premium Economy and making Y+ 10 across, a 7%+ increase in onboard real estate. Nope, I don't see the 77X in American's future and expect the widebody fleet to eventually be 787/A350 variants to reduce complexity.


The problem with this is that having only 787s and A350s makes the fleet very inflexible, and for an airline the size of AA, it's really not a great course of action.

Furthermore, the 777-300ER, used for AAs most premium routes, is performing very well. The addition of the 777-9 builds those destinations and allows for further growth and expansion. AA has the routes, traffic and market to host the type.

The 777 isn't going away from AA anytime soon.

However, I think the number of 777s will reduce, as the 777-200ERs are aging. Additional 787-9s and A350s could be warranted, as well as 777-9s.
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blacksoviet
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:39 am

Will AA order the 778? I think MIA-BOM is too long a route for a 779.
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:33 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Will AA order the 778? I think MIA-BOM is too long a route for a 779.


Probably not the -8, no. MIA-BOM could probably be done with the A350-900 or 787-9
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uberflieger
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:58 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
having only 787s and A350s makes the fleet very inflexible


Commonality = Flexibility.

The 787 / A350 fleet will be able to serve all the markets American flies to today and then some, while reducing the current high cost of operating too many fleets, which goes completely against AA mantra.

The 777-300 was ordered by an out-of-touch management that envisioned a premium stand-alone company. The 20 frames were a stopgap to speed up re-newel of an outdated product / fleet. The price was right, despite the higher cost compared to new generation planes in the pipeline and Boeing had immediate availability. The current configuration is too premium heavy, its capability not needed for 80%+ of markets and pilot quals not compatible with the 777-200.

Another sub-fleet? Highly unlikely, IMHO.

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