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rbavfan
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:23 pm

Swadian wrote:
AA's current 777-300ER is configured 8F/52J/250Y, for a total of 310 seats. AA will be installing Premium Economy in these aircraft and are also keeping MCE. I imagine that AA will replace the current MCE section with W and remove a row of Y to create a 10-abreast MCE cabin (no more 9-abreast MCE). I'm not sure how many W seats AA can install in the current MCE section, but assuming that they move back the partitions between MCE and Y a bit, they could put in 3 rows of 2-4-2 - 24 seats, or perhaps they would put in 4 rows. Maybe the center section would have an extra row.

Then the AA 77W will have either 8F/52J/24W/213Y (297 seats) or 8F/52J/32W/203Y (295 seats). This is just speculation, but whatever actually happens, even if AA goes to 10-abreast MCE, the 77W will have (unless they tear out J seats - unlikely) less seats than UA's 77W (366 seats) or DL's A359 (306 seats). If AA ordered the 779 and filled all the extra length with Y seats, they would still have probably no more than about 337 seats in a 8F/52J/24W/253Y configuration.

It has been suggested that the 779 is too big for US carriers and that AA doesn't need the capacity since they have plenty of 77Ws, but 337 seats isn't that many and the number would be even less if AA used the extra length of the 779 for more J or W seats. AA could use the 779 for DFW-HKG, DFW-GRU, DFW-LHR, LAX-LHR, LAX-HKG, and LAX-SYD, while the 77W could take over all JFK-LHR and MIA-LHR.

Thoughts?

If AA goes to 10x MCE they will not need the extra wasted offer space between W & W thats needed to counteract the 3-4-3 to 2-4-2 isle locations. Should be able to squeeze an extra row of Y at least.
 
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Boeing778X
Posts: 3268
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:29 pm

uberflieger wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
having only 787s and A350s makes the fleet very inflexible


Commonality = Flexibility.

The 787 / A350 fleet will be able to serve all the markets American flies to today and then some, while reducing the current high cost of operating too many fleets, which goes completely against AA mantra.

The 777-300 was ordered by an out-of-touch management that envisioned a premium stand-alone company. The 20 frames were a stopgap to speed up re-newel of an outdated product / fleet. The price was right, despite the higher cost compared to new generation planes in the pipeline and Boeing had immediate availability. The current configuration is too premium heavy, its capability not needed for 80%+ of markets and pilot quals not compatible with the 777-200.

Another sub-fleet? Highly unlikely, IMHO.


With all due respect, a lot of what your saying just isn't so. They wanted the 77W to be heavy and premium, and it works.

And if what you saying were true, AA would have no incentive to keep the A350-900 order, since they never ordered it and has never been operated by AA.

But you are correct in the sense that AA wants to simplify.

To an extent, mind you.

The A330-300s are being removed as they are not only older, but are powered by PW engines, which is unique among the current AA widebody fleet. The A330-200s are being kept as they share the same engine as the vast 77E fleet, as,well as being brand new.

Eventually the A330s may be retired completely. AA will be perfectly well as a 787/A350/777 airline.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
airzona11
Posts: 1773
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:27 am

uberflieger wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
having only 787s and A350s makes the fleet very inflexible


Commonality = Flexibility.

The 787 / A350 fleet will be able to serve all the markets American flies to today and then some, while reducing the current high cost of operating too many fleets, which goes completely against AA mantra.

The 777-300 was ordered by an out-of-touch management that envisioned a premium stand-alone company. The 20 frames were a stopgap to speed up re-newel of an outdated product / fleet. The price was right, despite the higher cost compared to new generation planes in the pipeline and Boeing had immediate availability. The current configuration is too premium heavy, its capability not needed for 80%+ of markets and pilot quals not compatible with the 777-200.

Another sub-fleet? Highly unlikely, IMHO.


The 77W was not a stopgap. It is the largest A/C they have operated in many decades. As others have mentioned it flies their premium routes, with OneWorld hubs on both ends. It up-gauged and opened new routes.
The reason the 77W is so popular is because for minimal cost above the 772, you get all the extra earning potential. And... did they not top off their initial order for more planes?

AA still is a premium airline. The only airline in the US still committed to F-class. Where the 77W flies domestically, they are revamping their First Class lounges.

With airlines around the globe consolidating and JVs, while I wouldn't say they could order 779s "soon", I do think it is feasible in the long run. AA flies 77Ws from LAX/JFKDFW/MIA- HKG LHR SYD. Those are premium, growing, cornerstone routes. 779 just might be a great fit.
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:23 am

airzona11 wrote:
uberflieger wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
having only 787s and A350s makes the fleet very inflexible


Commonality = Flexibility.

The 787 / A350 fleet will be able to serve all the markets American flies to today and then some, while reducing the current high cost of operating too many fleets, which goes completely against AA mantra.

The 777-300 was ordered by an out-of-touch management that envisioned a premium stand-alone company. The 20 frames were a stopgap to speed up re-newel of an outdated product / fleet. The price was right, despite the higher cost compared to new generation planes in the pipeline and Boeing had immediate availability. The current configuration is too premium heavy, its capability not needed for 80%+ of markets and pilot quals not compatible with the 777-200.

Another sub-fleet? Highly unlikely, IMHO.


The 77W was not a stopgap. It is the largest A/C they have operated in many decades. As others have mentioned it flies their premium routes, with OneWorld hubs on both ends. It up-gauged and opened new routes.
The reason the 77W is so popular is because for minimal cost above the 772, you get all the extra earning potential. And... did they not top off their initial order for more planes?

AA still is a premium airline. The only airline in the US still committed to F-class. Where the 77W flies domestically, they are revamping their First Class lounges.

With airlines around the globe consolidating and JVs, while I wouldn't say they could order 779s "soon", I do think it is feasible in the long run. AA flies 77Ws from LAX/JFKDFW/MIA- HKG LHR SYD. Those are premium, growing, cornerstone routes. 779 just might be a great fit.


Not to mention the markets it can enhance further that the 77W currently serve, especially those oneworld hubs. The addition of 20x 777-9s in 7-8 years could come at a good time, assuming global markets are healthy. I am wondering if destinations like NRT/HND and DOH would be added to the list of Premium routes by AA.

At around that time, the 777-200ERs will begin to age to the point of needing to be retired. The 777-9 can be ordered to cover current 77W markets, perhaps even open some new ones, while some previous 77E routes can upgauge to the 77W, such as CDG, FRA and other markets that have growth.

The remaining 77Es can be replaced by the the 787-9 and A350-900 or even the -1000.

They may have added a few units before the 77W entered service. I honestly can't remember.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
Whalejet
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:31 am

Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:34 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Will Boeing ever build a twin-jet larger than the 779?

Boeing is considering a 777-10, which would basically destroy what remains of the A380 and 747-8 programs (Unless Airbus does an 80 meter stretch on the 380). But after that, I doubt it. The next step will be
A) BWBs
B) Supersonic flight

I find it hard to imagine a BWB lifting off with 2 engines. A twin supersonic jet is likely, but not a 400PAX supersonic jet.
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1708
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:53 am

Whalejet wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Will Boeing ever build a twin-jet larger than the 779?

Boeing is considering a 777-10, which would basically destroy what remains of the A380 and 747-8 programs (Unless Airbus does an 80 meter stretch on the 380). But after that, I doubt it. The next step will be
A) BWBs
B) Supersonic flight

I find it hard to imagine a BWB lifting off with 2 engines. A twin supersonic jet is likely, but not a 400PAX supersonic jet.

Will we ever see a widebody supersonic jet or will it be more like a 753?

Won't Qantas eventually order some 748s to replace their 744s on SCL-SYD?
 
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Stitch
Posts: 27231
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:33 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Will we ever see a widebody supersonic jet or will it be more like a 753?


Maybe in the far future.


blacksoviet wrote:
Won't Qantas eventually order some 748s to replace their 744s on SCL-SYD?


No. CASA will eventually allow QF to operate the route with a twin.
 
ahj2000
Posts: 1234
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:02 pm

Stitch wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Will we ever see a widebody supersonic jet or will it be more like a 753?


Maybe in the far future.


blacksoviet wrote:
Won't Qantas eventually order some 748s to replace their 744s on SCL-SYD?


No. CASA will eventually allow QF to operate the route with a twin.

From what I understand, this is why SCL and JNB will be the last 747 destinations for Qantas. Eventually, it wouldn't surprise me to see daily/6w 787 on SCL.
The new 789s are really interesting in terms of South America to the Pacific. I wonder if either LA or QF would try LIM-SYD. It would be cool to stop in South America on a NY-Oz run :)
-Andrés Juánez
 
Swadian
Topic Author
Posts: 562
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Re: Could AA order 779 anytime soon?

Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:21 pm

Doug Parker may like to squeeze in extra seats, but he also likes to make money. AA needs some high-J airplanes for their premium routes. Also, keep in mind how AA manages to put only 181 seats in the A321. I highly doubt AA will pull J seats out of the 77W. That being said, if Boeing offers a good enough deal, they could order a few more without F.

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