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qf789
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Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:31 am

Australian Aviation Thread 149 is now open, please continue to add your comments below.

In Part 148 we discussed

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1349717&start=250

PER-LHR confirmed to start April 2018
QF to operate PER Internationals flights from T3, including SIN/AKL, terminal to be upgraded
Ongoing discussion on QF 787-9 routes, etc
JQ 788 stuck in HNL after bird strike, engine change required
Federal government signs off on Badgery’s Creek airport
QF to use 789 on MEL-LAX (QF95/96) from 15 Dec 17, goes from 2 weekly to 6 weekly
QR to send A388 to MEL from 30 June 17
CZ begins flights to ADL
VA & NZ plan night time departures from Queenstown to BNE/SYD
CZ signals more Australian expansion
QF71/72 PER-SIN begins seasonal upgrade to A332
QF1 diverts to LCA, medical emergency
QF begins seasonal upgrade on AKL routes
Expected delivery dates on QF’s first 3 789’s
QF starts MEL-NRT
Australia & Taiwan sign open skies
Flycorporate announced flights from BNE-OAG
QF celebrates 1,000,000 737-800 flights
TT cancels flights before Xmas affecting roughly 4000 passengers due to not receiving 737-800 approval on AOC by CASA
SQ increases frequency on MEL/BNE
Proposed Virgin/Alliance charter operation rejected by ACCC
FJ to launch 2 weekly flights to ADL from 30 Jun 17
QF to fly to DPS year round
SYD-HKG and SYD-PER QF’s 2 worse performing routes in Oct 16
QF to announce new premium economy seat in March
QF has several days of delays into LHR due to fog at DXB
JQ to drop MEL-WLG in March
KE to use 748 on SYD route from 1 Sep 17
Baggage handler injured after being hit by a fuel truck at PER
SQ to send A350 to PER on 5th Apr 17 to celebrate 50 years of service
QF former ops to Africa
MU push backs launch date of WUH-SYD
SQ SIN-CBR-WLG Oct numbers
TT DPS flights cancelled by Indonesia Authorities for selling one way tickets
Lion Group plans to operate up to 10 routes to Australia by end of 2018
CBR airport lobbying for 5th weekly flight from SQ
VN to start HAN-SYD from 29 Mar 17
QF WIFI trials start February
10 of QF’s Q400’s grounded for not being inspected on time
JQ to fly to SGN from both MEL and SYD from 11 May 17
TT to resume DPS flights pending final approval from 3 Feb 17 using A320’s
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:41 pm

Effective 26 March 17 JL will replace 77W with 789 on NRT-SYD

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... f-19jan17/
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:44 pm

A QF flight operating AKL-MEL turned back to AKL half an hour after departure due to a passenger suffered from a fatal heart attack

http://www.9news.com.au/world/2017/01/1 ... tas-flight
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:00 pm

qf789 wrote:
Effective 26 March 17 JL will replace 77W with 789 on NRT-SYD



8 abreast in economy too.
airliners.net's passenger - simultaneously connecting and flying direct.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:22 pm

Why do we still need to split threads into parts?
 
edmountain
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:17 am

XAM2175 wrote:
Why do we still need to split threads into parts?

I agree, seems like a waste.
 
qf002
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:17 am

XAM2175 wrote:
Why do we still need to split threads into parts?


I quite like resetting every so often, maybe we could do it monthly/quarterly instead of every 200 posts?

Edited rather than double posting - have just been reading around other forums that QF are apparently planning to reconfigure around half a dozen A332s into a proper international configuration with crew rest, larger galleys and an additional toilet in J. If so then great news and something that should have happened from the beginning, I wonder if they will use some of the non-PTV aircraft and fit new Y seats while they are at it (the two existing Skybed frames will need new Y seats anyway, might as well have some consistency...).
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:51 am

XAM2175 wrote:
Why do we still need to split threads into parts?


A few reasons:

1. It provides a circuit breaker for discussions/arguments that just go round in circles
2. It encourages participants to provide a summary of points if they want to bring up historical issues, enabling greater participation from more people
3. It focuses posters' minds on more recent, pertinent issues in the local aviaiton market, making the thread more interesting and engaging
4. It's just all-round easier to follow - the A350 production thread is really interesting but the references to past discussions are so obscure it can be very hard to follow, as posters make assumptions about reader knowledge

So I kinda like the 200 reply limit. And a lot goes on in Australian aviation so yeah, this works for me at least.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:05 am

XAM2175 wrote:
Why do we still need to split threads into parts?


Your question is better suited in the site related forum, though to answer your question it was decided by the moderators after much discussion that country and US state threads would be locked at around 270-300 posts and the new part started as they are catch all threads and cover a wide range of topics. We currently go through one Australian Aviation thread a month and every time a new part is opened I provide a summary of what was discussed in the last part to make it easy for all users to keep up to date with recent discussions. If anyone has any questions or comments on this I ask that you either email the moderators at [email protected] or discuss this in the site related forum. Now lets get back to discussing Australian Aviation matters.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:06 am

aerokiwi wrote:
XAM2175 wrote:
Why do we still need to split threads into parts?


A few reasons:

1. It provides a circuit breaker for discussions/arguments that just go round in circles
2. It encourages participants to provide a summary of points if they want to bring up historical issues, enabling greater participation from more people
3. It focuses posters' minds on more recent, pertinent issues in the local aviaiton market, making the thread more interesting and engaging
4. It's just all-round easier to follow - the A350 production thread is really interesting but the references to past discussions are so obscure it can be very hard to follow, as posters make assumptions about reader knowledge

So I kinda like the 200 reply limit. And a lot goes on in Australian aviation so yeah, this works for me at least.

I support Aerokiwi and his reasons. Giant threads become far, far too hard to follow.

Gemuser
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:10 am

Gemuser wrote:
I support Aerokiwi and his reasons. Giant threads become far, far too hard to follow.


Image

I agree.

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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:13 am

qf002 wrote:
have just been reading around other forums that QF are apparently planning to reconfigure around half a dozen A332s into a proper international configuration with crew rest, larger galleys and an additional toilet in J. If so then great news and something that should have happened from the beginning, I wonder if they will use some of the non-PTV aircraft and fit new Y seats while they are at it (the two existing Skybed frames will need new Y seats anyway, might as well have some consistency...).


Interesting, though as you say it should have happened from the beginning. Late last year there was talk that the 2 A332's that hadn't been reconfigured like the rest of the fleet that QF were considering not renewing their leases so I wonder if this perhaps something to do with other A332's being reconfigured. I guess the other thing is maybe QF have another route or 2 that they are thinking of starting that would require A332's to have crew rest
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:15 am

qf002 wrote:
XAM2175 wrote:
Why do we still need to split threads into parts?


I quite like resetting every so often, maybe we could do it monthly/quarterly instead of every 200 posts?

Edited rather than double posting - have just been reading around other forums that QF are apparently planning to reconfigure around half a dozen A332s into a proper international configuration with crew rest, larger galleys and an additional toilet in J. If so then great news and something that should have happened from the beginning, I wonder if they will use some of the non-PTV aircraft and fit new Y seats while they are at it (the two existing Skybed frames will need new Y seats anyway, might as well have some consistency...).


Interesting I have heard the 1 toilet in business gets a lot of negative feedback. Are they currently flown on international routes, or would this be for expansion?

Would anyone be able to pull the number of 321 flights a day with JQ between SYD and MEL seems most are 321s to me- a decent way for QF group to increase capacity at minimal cost. I still see benefit for 321s for QF on this route!
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:34 am

smi0006 wrote:
Would anyone be able to pull the number of 321 flights a day with JQ between SYD and MEL seems most are 321s to me- a decent way for QF group to increase capacity at minimal cost. I still see benefit for 321s for QF on this route!


Actually you will be surprised not as much as expected. Going off today JQ has 19 flights between SYD & MEL each way. Only 6 flights each way see the A321 the rest are A320's
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:16 am

qf789 wrote:
TT to resume DPS flights pending final approval from 3 Feb 17 using A320’s


Surely not on MEL-DPS? ADL/PER-DPS is reasonable but I didn't think an A320 had the legs for MEL-DPS?
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:20 am

SYD airport exceeds 41 million passengers for 2016, up 5.6% on the previous year

http://australianaviation.com.au/2017/0 ... s-in-2016/
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aerokiwi
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:24 am

qf789 wrote:
XAM2175 wrote:
Why do we still need to split threads into parts?
We currently go through one Australian Aviation thread a month and every time a new part is opened I provide a summary of what was discussed in the last part to make it easy for all users to keep up to date with recent discussions.


Much appreciated, by the way. They're excellent. Really illustrates the amount happening in Australia too.

On the recent Tiger Bali flights saga, apparently the airline can resume regular services in about three weeks, according to a slightly confusing article in The Australian. Does this mean Virgin are operating in the meantime or they just abandoning pax for this period? Virgin seems to have spare A330 capacity so can they step in and provide these kind of recovery flights or is that a bureaucratic/operational nightmare as well?
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:27 am

qf789 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Would anyone be able to pull the number of 321 flights a day with JQ between SYD and MEL seems most are 321s to me- a decent way for QF group to increase capacity at minimal cost. I still see benefit for 321s for QF on this route!


Actually you will be surprised not as much as expected. Going off today JQ has 19 flights between SYD & MEL each way. Only 6 flights each way see the A321 the rest are A320's


Oh! I must just be lucky as I fly them frequently and only ever seem to be on them! Interesting.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:57 am

Sometime ago I flew on an A321 out of Avalon for SYD. Great aeroplane, and might be nice if QF (with their 90 0rders or so for A320) may consider up gauging those orders for some of the new A321LR or whatever this long range version is called. I also support Aerokiwi and qf789 on the length of our Aussie forums. Please don't "fix something that ain't broke".
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:00 am

What is the likelihood we will see EY expand in BNE in 2017? They recently moved from 3 to 2-class 789 on the daily BNE-AUH route and load factors seem to be generally high (obviously that doesn't mean yields are). BNE only has 2x daily non-stop services to the Middle East (1x EK + 1 x EY) compared to MEL and SYD both with 6 and PER with 4. QR is likely to enter when they get the rights, will we see EY try to expand now before QR enters?

Also rumoured that EK432/3 BNE-SIN-DXB will be upgraded to A380. Will we see new services from EK this year as well?
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:22 am

TN486 wrote:
Sometime ago I flew on an A321 out of Avalon for SYD. Great aeroplane, and might be nice if QF (with their 90 0rders or so for A320) may consider up gauging those orders for some of the new A321LR or whatever this long range version is called. I also support Aerokiwi and qf789 on the length of our Aussie forums. Please don't "fix something that ain't broke".


Last year QF group converted 45 of the 99 A320neo into A321neo.
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log0008
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:33 am

Does anyone know why Tigerair's 738 VH-VUD is doing flights between ADL-MEL-ADL etc? This aircraft was added for domestic flights (I believe their is an approval issue with CASA) it has been doing this since the 18th. All flight numbers in the 9100's so not commercial flights https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/vh-vud
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:36 am

I believe it is operating proving flights related to the addition of the 737 to their AOC.
Qantas - The Spirit of Australia.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:38 am

skyhawkmatthew wrote:
I believe it is operating proving flights related to the addition of the 737 to their AOC.


Make sence and what I expected - didn't relies it would takes so many.

Also

Cathay Pacific this week adjusted planned operational aircraft on Hong Kong – Sydney CX101/100 service, for Northern summer season. From 06MAY17 to 28OCT17, Day 67 from HKG, Day 17 from SYD will be operated by Airbus A330-300, instead of 777-300ER. Overall service becomes 12 weekly 777-300ER and 16 weekly A330-300, compared to 1 daily 777 and 3 daily A330 in the same period in 2016.

CX139 HKG0910 – 2010SYD 77W D
CX111 HKG1850 – 0610+1SYD 333 D
CX161 HKG2130 – 0845+1SYD 333 D
CX101 HKG2355 – 1055+1SYD 333 67
CX101 HKG2355 – 1055+1SYD 77W x67

CX110 SYD0730 – 1510HKG 333 D
CX162 SYD1005 – 1750HKG 333 D
CX100 SYD1410 – 2135HKG 77W x17
CX100 SYD1410 – 2135HKG 333 17
CX138 SYD2155 – 0515+1HKG 77W D


http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... e-changes/

and

Holiday flights to Sydney
Jan. 11, 2017
Shenzhen Daily Excerpt

CHINA Southern Airlines will operate flights between Shenzhen and Sydney on a daily basis between Jan. 21 and Feb. 5 for Spring Festival holiday travelers.

Currently, China Southern operates three flights between Shenzhen and Sydney on Wednesday, Friday and Sunday.

The company said it decided to add four flights a week to Sydney to meet demand from local holidaymakers.

Apart from flights to Sydney, the other international holiday flights have mainly been added on routes to Phuket Island in Thailand and Taipei. Eighty-eight percent of the tickets for flights to Sydney between Jan. 15 and 31 have been sold, according to its Shenzhen company.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:08 am

qf789 wrote:
TN486 wrote:
Sometime ago I flew on an A321 out of Avalon for SYD. Great aeroplane, and might be nice if QF (with their 90 0rders or so for A320) may consider up gauging those orders for some of the new A321LR or whatever this long range version is called. I also support Aerokiwi and qf789 on the length of our Aussie forums. Please don't "fix something that ain't broke".


Last year QF group converted 45 of the 99 A320neo into A321neo.


Thanks for the info. Well done QF, be very very interesting to see how/where these are deployed including what type of exterior paint job they get.
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
CXfirst
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:14 am

In regards to TT adding the 738 to the AOC, what makes this so hard?

Airlines all around the world (including Australia) add fleet types to their operations all the time. TT, being fully owned by VA would surely have an even greater advantage, as the parent company would have all the expertise necessary for that aircraft type?

Have any other Australian airlines ever tried to introduce a type before and have had as much trouble?

Or could it possibly be that in the application, TT has relied too much on VA, with CASA not being happy with TT being able to operate the type fully independently from VA?

-CXfirst
 
zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:04 am

qf789 wrote:
TN486 wrote:
Sometime ago I flew on an A321 out of Avalon for SYD. Great aeroplane, and might be nice if QF (with their 90 0rders or so for A320) may consider up gauging those orders for some of the new A321LR or whatever this long range version is called. I also support Aerokiwi and qf789 on the length of our Aussie forums. Please don't "fix something that ain't broke".


Last year QF group converted 45 of the 99 A320neo into A321neo.


I wonder if the A321NEO could be an good replacement for the JetConnect fleet which are now approaching 8 years old, and soon will be nearing the need for an cabin re-fit e.g. the IFE will be nearing the end of its useable life and the onboard product in J is pretty bad for the Tasman pretty much NZ's PE is better.

With NZ introducing the 321NEO on the Tasman this year, its going to leave Qantas stuck with the 738 and having to use the 333/332 when they need an in-between. From March NZ is using x4 Daily 777/787 services plus an A320, which is leaving Qantas at the back of the pack.

Surely the A321NEO would work pretty well for Tasman with the new Qantas 330 J class product.
 
TN486
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:30 am

Anybody know anything about this flight (note the flight number) UAE2665
https://www.flightradar24.com/UAE2665/c3a9b08
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:43 am

Why do Virgin Australia and Qantas both have the worst Business Class hard product on the Tasman? and provided an much better service on PER-SYD/MEL.

For example on the Tasman:

Qantas
- Pitch 37"
- Width 22"
- AVOD
- Foldout Foot rest

Virgin Australia
- Pitch 38"
- Width 22"
- No AVOD (just an Tablet)
- No Foot rest

Air New Zealand (excluding the 767, which leaves next month)
- Pitch 80"
- Width 22"
- AVOD
- Fully flat bed

Latam
- Pitch 75"
- Width 23"
- AVOD
- Fully flat bed

China Airlines
- Pitch 65"
- Width 20"
- AVOD
- Angled lie flat

Emirates
- Pitch 79"
- Width 18.5"
- AVOD
- Fully flat bed


Yet Air New Zealand offers PE on the Tasman:
- Pitch 41"
- Width 19"
- AVOD
- Foot Rest
 
getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:05 am

zkncj wrote:
Why do Virgin Australia and Qantas both have the worst Business Class hard product on the Tasman? and provided an much better service on PER-SYD/MEL.

....t


NZ's A320s, which do most of the runs between the east coast and NZ, doesn't have J. So compare apples and apples.

At least if you want J class, you'll always get it on the others if it's not sold out.
I'm that bad type.
 
zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:19 am

getluv wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Why do Virgin Australia and Qantas both have the worst Business Class hard product on the Tasman? and provided an much better service on PER-SYD/MEL.

....t


NZ's A320s, which do most of the runs between the east coast and NZ, doesn't have J. So compare apples and apples.

At least if you want J class, you'll always get it on the others if it's not sold out.


ex-AKL most of the MEL,SYD,BNE on NZ aren't A320s for example in April.

AKL-MEL
NZ123 77W
NZ125 789

AKL-SYD
NZ101 789
NZ103 772
NZ105 789
NZ119 789

AKL-BNE
NZ135 77W
 
Qantas16
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:19 am

TN486 wrote:
Anybody know anything about this flight (note the flight number) UAE2665
https://www.flightradar24.com/UAE2665/c3a9b08



Looks like EK405 MEL-SIN was cancelled a few days ago, this is the ferry flight back to DXB...
 
An767
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:12 am

zkncj wrote:
Why do Virgin Australia and Qantas both have the worst Business Class hard product on the Tasman? and provided an much better service on PER-SYD/MEL.

For example on the Tasman:

Qantas
- Pitch 37"
- Width 22"
- AVOD
- Foldout Foot rest

Virgin Australia
- Pitch 38"
- Width 22"
- No AVOD (just an Tablet)
- No Foot rest

Air New Zealand (excluding the 767, which leaves next month)
- Pitch 80"
- Width 22"
- AVOD
- Fully flat bed

Latam
- Pitch 75"
- Width 23"
- AVOD
- Fully flat bed

China Airlines
- Pitch 65"
- Width 20"
- AVOD
- Angled lie flat

Emirates
- Pitch 79"
- Width 18.5"
- AVOD
- Fully flat bed


Yet Air New Zealand offers PE on the Tasman:
- Pitch 41"
- Width 19"
- AVOD
- Foot Rest


TBH how much space do you really need for a flight that is only 3hrs max. Bearing in mind that NZ puts the 777 & 787 on between longhauls and EK and the rest are tag ons . no different realy flying BNE > MLB on a 738 in Business and i find it comfy enough
N767
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:09 am

Thanks all for answers re the thread parts question.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:24 am

zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
TN486 wrote:
Sometime ago I flew on an A321 out of Avalon for SYD. Great aeroplane, and might be nice if QF (with their 90 0rders or so for A320) may consider up gauging those orders for some of the new A321LR or whatever this long range version is called. I also support Aerokiwi and qf789 on the length of our Aussie forums. Please don't "fix something that ain't broke".


Last year QF group converted 45 of the 99 A320neo into A321neo.


I wonder if the A321NEO could be an good replacement for the JetConnect fleet which are now approaching 8 years old, and soon will be nearing the need for an cabin re-fit e.g. the IFE will be nearing the end of its useable life and the onboard product in J is pretty bad for the Tasman pretty much NZ's PE is better.

With NZ introducing the 321NEO on the Tasman this year, its going to leave Qantas stuck with the 738 and having to use the 333/332 when they need an in-between. From March NZ is using x4 Daily 777/787 services plus an A320, which is leaving Qantas at the back of the pack.

Surely the A321NEO would work pretty well for Tasman with the new Qantas 330 J class product.


Doubt it anytime soon for Jet connnect A321's, pretty sure they would use them domestically SYD/MEL/BNE first. And Jetconnect 738's are been refitted now with the same new seats the QF 738's have, flew on one the other day new seats were quite thin and not that comfortable compared to the old ones I was in a few weeks ago. I'm 6'3.
 
RacheyFlies
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:48 am

ANA will switch its Tokyo-Sydney aircraft with the 240 seater 787-9 from the 215 seater.

Source:

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... f-19jan17/
The best plane I've flown is an A380. They were the biggest and the best than other plane I've been on. :lol:
 
TN486
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:00 pm

Qantas16 wrote:
TN486 wrote:
Anybody know anything about this flight (note the flight number) UAE2665
https://www.flightradar24.com/UAE2665/c3a9b08



Looks like EK405 MEL-SIN was cancelled a few days ago, this is the ferry flight back to DXB...


Thank you so much for the info, cheers
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
81819
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:48 pm

qf789 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Would anyone be able to pull the number of 321 flights a day with JQ between SYD and MEL seems most are 321s to me- a decent way for QF group to increase capacity at minimal cost. I still see benefit for 321s for QF on this route!


Actually you will be surprised not as much as expected. Going off today JQ has 19 flights between SYD & MEL each way. Only 6 flights each way see the A321 the rest are A320's


JQ use the A321 aircraft on a triangular route sequence flying one short haul (typically in the morning as a positioning flight) and two long haul flights. You will note the A321's have longer turn around times (sometimes around 1 hour), so they may not be suitable for short haul flying where turn times are critical for achieving acceptable levels of aircraft utilisation.

We also have to remember QF have done a lot of work to reduce the turn times of the 738 fleet to increase aircraft utilisation. I can see a mixed fleet of 738's and A320's as a unnecessary complication of their now simplified fleet.

I'd suggest JQ will be using the A321NEO to replace 788's on Bali flights and to open up new routes from airports like Cairns and Darwin into South-east Asia.Likewise QF could use a sub fleet of A321's to open up some shirt haul flying into Asia.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:39 pm

travelhound wrote:
qf789 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Would anyone be able to pull the number of 321 flights a day with JQ between SYD and MEL seems most are 321s to me- a decent way for QF group to increase capacity at minimal cost. I still see benefit for 321s for QF on this route!


Actually you will be surprised not as much as expected. Going off today JQ has 19 flights between SYD & MEL each way. Only 6 flights each way see the A321 the rest are A320's


JQ use the A321 aircraft on a triangular route sequence flying one short haul (typically in the morning as a positioning flight) and two long haul flights. You will note the A321's have longer turn around times (sometimes around 1 hour), so they may not be suitable for short haul flying where turn times are critical for achieving acceptable levels of aircraft utilisation.

We also have to remember QF have done a lot of work to reduce the turn times of the 738 fleet to increase aircraft utilisation. I can see a mixed fleet of 738's and A320's as a unnecessary complication of their now simplified fleet.

I'd suggest JQ will be using the A321NEO to replace 788's on Bali flights and to open up new routes from airports like Cairns and Darwin into South-east Asia.Likewise QF could use a sub fleet of A321's to open up some shirt haul flying into Asia.


I'm not convinced that A321neo's will replace 788's on Bali flights. Australian carries are maxed out or close to in regards to the bilateral with Indonesia. By replacing 788's with A321neo's capacity would reduce. BNE may be the exception to this as its currently not a daily service. Other Bali routes currently served by the A320 would be likely candidates for the A321neo. As noted by AirAsia with their recent A321neo order they plan to use their A321neo's into airports which are congested and more landing slots are difficult to obtain while taking advantage of the extra 40 or so seats gained versus operating a A320. I think we may see JQ do something similar plus of course the A321neo will allow JQ to operate new routes currently where the range is not enough for the A320 or a 788 is too big. Where QF is concerned the A321neo would allow them to operate new routes as well. They could also operate a fleet for PER-SYD/MEL/BNE and peak times SYD-MEL replacing the A332's. The A332's they could be used for growth on regional routes into Asia. Currently on a typical weekday there are around 11 A332's flying domestic so just imagine how much they could expand into Asia if they could be deployed there instead of domestically. While I don't disagree with you on the utilisation, QF have worked hard on that there will come a time when they need to look at replacing the old 738's and I think the A321neo is one way of doing that
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getluv
Posts: 594
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:38 pm

zkncj wrote:
getluv wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Why do Virgin Australia and Qantas both have the worst Business Class hard product on the Tasman? and provided an much better service on PER-SYD/MEL.

....t


NZ's A320s, which do most of the runs between the east coast and NZ, doesn't have J. So compare apples and apples.

At least if you want J class, you'll always get it on the others if it's not sold out.


ex-AKL most of the MEL,SYD,BNE on NZ aren't A320s for example in April.

AKL-MEL
NZ123 77W
NZ125 789

AKL-SYD
NZ101 789
NZ103 772
NZ105 789
NZ119 789

AKL-BNE
NZ135 77W


Must be on the day you selectively checked then, because it wasn't on mind.

The only thing you've proven is what an inconsistent product NZ have compared to everyone else.

NZ also doesn't offer J to CHC, ZQN and WLG. VA and QF do.
I'm that bad type.
 
getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:14 pm

zkncj wrote:
getluv wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Why do Virgin Australia and Qantas both have the worst Business Class hard product on the Tasman? and provided an much better service on PER-SYD/MEL.

....t


NZ's A320s, which do most of the runs between the east coast and NZ, doesn't have J. So compare apples and apples.

At least if you want J class, you'll always get it on the others if it's not sold out.


ex-AKL most of the MEL,SYD,BNE on NZ aren't A320s for example in April.

AKL-MEL
NZ123 77W
NZ125 789

AKL-SYD
NZ101 789
NZ103 772
NZ105 789
NZ119 789

AKL-BNE
NZ135 77W


And let's play fair, NZ offer more flights than that a day to/from AKL to SYD, BNE and MEL. I'm guessing the ones you omitted were A320 flights.
I'm that bad type.
 
zkncj
Posts: 3892
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:27 pm

An767 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Why do Virgin Australia and Qantas both have the worst Business Class hard product on the Tasman? and provided an much better service on PER-SYD/MEL.

For example on the Tasman:

Qantas
- Pitch 37"
- Width 22"
- AVOD
- Foldout Foot rest

Virgin Australia
- Pitch 38"
- Width 22"
- No AVOD (just an Tablet)
- No Foot rest

Air New Zealand (excluding the 767, which leaves next month)
- Pitch 80"
- Width 22"
- AVOD
- Fully flat bed

Latam
- Pitch 75"
- Width 23"
- AVOD
- Fully flat bed

China Airlines
- Pitch 65"
- Width 20"
- AVOD
- Angled lie flat

Emirates
- Pitch 79"
- Width 18.5"
- AVOD
- Fully flat bed


Yet Air New Zealand offers PE on the Tasman:
- Pitch 41"
- Width 19"
- AVOD
- Foot Rest


TBH how much space do you really need for a flight that is only 3hrs max. Bearing in mind that NZ puts the 777 & 787 on between longhauls and EK and the rest are tag ons . no different realy flying BNE > MLB on a 738 in Business and i find it comfy enough
N767


The problem being is QF/VA charge the same as NZ for J, yet NZ only charges around $349-500 for PE which hardproduct is better
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:46 pm

qf789 wrote:
travelhound wrote:
qf789 wrote:

Actually you will be surprised not as much as expected. Going off today JQ has 19 flights between SYD & MEL each way. Only 6 flights each way see the A321 the rest are A320's


JQ use the A321 aircraft on a triangular route sequence flying one short haul (typically in the morning as a positioning flight) and two long haul flights. You will note the A321's have longer turn around times (sometimes around 1 hour), so they may not be suitable for short haul flying where turn times are critical for achieving acceptable levels of aircraft utilisation.

We also have to remember QF have done a lot of work to reduce the turn times of the 738 fleet to increase aircraft utilisation. I can see a mixed fleet of 738's and A320's as a unnecessary complication of their now simplified fleet.

I'd suggest JQ will be using the A321NEO to replace 788's on Bali flights and to open up new routes from airports like Cairns and Darwin into South-east Asia.Likewise QF could use a sub fleet of A321's to open up some shirt haul flying into Asia.


I'm not convinced that A321neo's will replace 788's on Bali flights. Australian carries are maxed out or close to in regards to the bilateral with Indonesia. By replacing 788's with A321neo's capacity would reduce. BNE may be the exception to this as its currently not a daily service. Other Bali routes currently served by the A320 would be likely candidates for the A321neo. As noted by AirAsia with their recent A321neo order they plan to use their A321neo's into airports which are congested and more landing slots are difficult to obtain while taking advantage of the extra 40 or so seats gained versus operating a A320. I think we may see JQ do something similar plus of course the A321neo will allow JQ to operate new routes currently where the range is not enough for the A320 or a 788 is too big. Where QF is concerned the A321neo would allow them to operate new routes as well. They could also operate a fleet for PER-SYD/MEL/BNE and peak times SYD-MEL replacing the A332's. The A332's they could be used for growth on regional routes into Asia. Currently on a typical weekday there are around 11 A332's flying domestic so just imagine how much they could expand into Asia if they could be deployed there instead of domestically. While I don't disagree with you on the utilisation, QF have worked hard on that there will come a time when they need to look at replacing the old 738's and I think the A321neo is one way of doing that


Yes, but if JQ were to use A321's on SYD-MEL and SYD-BNE (where they fly almost on an hourly basis) they would quickly loose gate space due to the increased turn times. This could (probably would) have a knock on effect to their on-time performance and as a consequence fleet utilisation.

To further expand on the argument the 18% extra capacity of the A321 over the A320 would require 60% more gate space 30-50 minutes). The constraint would be transferred from landing slots to airport facilities.

The A320/738 are almost the perfect size for short haul fling.I suspect the next best size jumps a few notches to a wide body.
 
luftaom
Posts: 782
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:14 pm

I really don't see JQ putting the 321NEOs on new services to Asia out of DRW. The DRW crew base has been closed and the scissor hub didn't work in the boom years of 2011-2015. The SIN service was switched over to 3K. The economy DRW has since tanked (primarily due to Inpex moving from construction to operation). I suspect that the 321NEOs may make an appearance on the overnight SYD/MEL/BNE-DRW flights during the winter but otherwise I don't see it.
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bunumuring
Posts: 2531
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:45 am

Hey guys,
Heard a rumour that Cathay Dragon may touch down medium-term in Cairns and perhaps another (unnamed) Australian destination. That's from a source in HK.
And speaking of Rumours, Could another airline announce international services to Canberra midway through this year? No surprise there...
AND re the debate over PER-LHR... Good friends of mine got caught up in a QF Dubai ticketing mess a fortnight ago (no, not the ones reported in the media) and had to spend an unscheduled 24 hours in Dubai on their way back to Sydney from LHR. The wife's comment? "I'm not flying Qantas to London again until the Perth nonstop flights start. I will never fly through Dubai again." Backs up my growing belief that QF are on a winner with this service. I for one will also use it in preference to Dubai.
Re the QF narrow body order to replace 737-800s.... Could the speculated 737-MAX10 be in contention now, along with the 737-MAX8 in a possible mix a la a potential A230neo/A321neo mix? My personal view is that the longer there is NO statement from Alan Joyce re the replacement of the 737-800s, the more likely the existing QF Group order for Neos will be used/leveraged to replace the 737s... And the deferred 8 x A380s cancelled as part of a deal with Airbus for QF getting ad neos. As for the A321LR, I can see it used by both QF mainline and Jetstar like posters above have suggested.
I also will repeat my hope that QF develop a more in depth Pacific and near-Asia route structure using the CSeries.... And also use it to replace the 717s and some 737-800s in the longer term. Reports are that the plane is a game changer and with Air Baltic looking at flying it to Dubai, it's looooong legs and perceived high degree of passenger comfort are surely in no doubt. These features could be useful for QF moving into secondary Indonesian, PNG and Pacific markets... Plus some 'out of the box' transcontinental routes like Hobart-Perth and Sydney-Broome.
Cheers,
Bunumuring.
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:30 am

Qantas16 wrote:
What is the likelihood we will see EY expand in BNE in 2017? They recently moved from 3 to 2-class 789 on the daily BNE-AUH route and load factors seem to be generally high (obviously that doesn't mean yields are). BNE only has 2x daily non-stop services to the Middle East (1x EK + 1 x EY) compared to MEL and SYD both with 6 and PER with 4. QR is likely to enter when they get the rights, will we see EY try to expand now before QR enters?

Also rumoured that EK432/3 BNE-SIN-DXB will be upgraded to A380. Will we see new services from EK this year as well?


EY: the higher config 789 is probably due to not being able to sell enough F seats year-round to/from BNE. I think chances of expansion to another flight or larger aircraft are slim- the route isn't that profitable (if at all) and the yields are garbage (ex AU and Europe). The only thing helping is the 789 economics which would be lost if upgraded to 77W. And when QR gets BNE traffic rights the bloodbath will get more gruesome.

EK BNE-SIN-DXB 380 rumour... well they need places to fly them although can they afford the 77W freight reduction?
 
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Posts: 766
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:06 am

bunumuring wrote:
Hey guys,
Heard a rumour that Cathay Dragon may touch down medium-term in Cairns and perhaps another (unnamed) Australian destination. That's from a source in HK.


Wouldn't be surprising. There is little passenger or freight traffic between BNE-CNS on the BNE-CNS-HKG route so it would make sense to decouple it. That will give them 4 extra frequencies to launch more BNE-HKG direct or to another Australian destination. Though now with Hong Kong Airlines on the CNS-HKG route (albeit only one way) CX may be struggling.

As for the other destination, they already serve MEL, SYD, ADL, PER, BNE and CNS... what's left?

DRW would be at the end of the range of an A320 and I doubt could warrant a 330. HBA won't happen. CBR is a maybe though unlikely unless SQ has discovered a gold mine... That only leaves OOL which would seem unlikely with daily HKG services already...
 
747m8te
Posts: 438
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:14 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:20 am

zkncj wrote:
An767 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Why do Virgin Australia and Qantas both have the worst Business Class hard product on the Tasman? and provided an much better service on PER-SYD/MEL.

For example on the Tasman:

Qantas
- Pitch 37"
- Width 22"
- AVOD
- Foldout Foot rest

Virgin Australia
- Pitch 38"
- Width 22"
- No AVOD (just an Tablet)
- No Foot rest

Air New Zealand (excluding the 767, which leaves next month)
- Pitch 80"
- Width 22"
- AVOD
- Fully flat bed

Latam
- Pitch 75"
- Width 23"
- AVOD
- Fully flat bed

China Airlines
- Pitch 65"
- Width 20"
- AVOD
- Angled lie flat

Emirates
- Pitch 79"
- Width 18.5"
- AVOD
- Fully flat bed


Yet Air New Zealand offers PE on the Tasman:
- Pitch 41"
- Width 19"
- AVOD
- Foot Rest


TBH how much space do you really need for a flight that is only 3hrs max. Bearing in mind that NZ puts the 777 & 787 on between longhauls and EK and the rest are tag ons . no different realy flying BNE > MLB on a 738 in Business and i find it comfy enough
N767


The problem being is QF/VA charge the same as NZ for J, yet NZ only charges around $349-500 for PE which hardproduct is better


Here we go again with your pro NZ trolling ugh...that is your opinion which everyone is welcome to share but don't state it as fact and with selective figures, state it as your opinion!

I personally hate NZ business class product, I actually found it to be a very short bed (the 80in is a very select measurement from the extreme angled corner points of each end which is actually dead space as you can't fit in it, exactly why in advertising they use short people half curled up so their feet don't overhang lol) and quite narrow due to the walls on either side which is what all herringbone layouts suffer from. And on a short 3hr flight I don't want to lay down anyway, i'd much rather sit in a comfy business recliner seat on QF/VA personally with better shoulder and elbow room for dining and working...plus when you have a window seat you can actually see out of it without breaking your neck. And no...NZ PE product is NOT better than QF/VA business just because you say so, plus their PE product itself is inconsistent across the fleet, I find the NZ PE seats less comfortable especially the 'space seat' which thankfully they are getting rid of. As others have stated, NZ have no consistency on product across the Tasman either and only on few select flights to Auckland they actually offer a business class product at all otherwise it is the very basic economy on all other services with the LCC style pay for service offering, which I could get on JQ much cheaper.
Flown on:
DHC8Q200,DHC8Q300,DHC8Q400, EMB145,E170,E175,E190, A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A380, MD80, B712,B733,B734,B737,B738,B743,B744,B744ER,B762,B763,B77W
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:24 am

bunumuring wrote:
Hey guys,
Heard a rumour that Cathay Dragon may touch down medium-term in Cairns and perhaps another (unnamed) Australian destination. That's from a source in HK.
And speaking of Rumours, Could another airline announce international services to Canberra midway through this year? No surprise there...
AND re the debate over PER-LHR... Good friends of mine got caught up in a QF Dubai ticketing mess a fortnight ago (no, not the ones reported in the media) and had to spend an unscheduled 24 hours in Dubai on their way back to Sydney from LHR. The wife's comment? "I'm not flying Qantas to London again until the Perth nonstop flights start. I will never fly through Dubai again." Backs up my growing belief that QF are on a winner with this service. I for one will also use it in preference to Dubai.
Re the QF narrow body order to replace 737-800s.... Could the speculated 737-MAX10 be in contention now, along with the 737-MAX8 in a possible mix a la a potential A230neo/A321neo mix? My personal view is that the longer there is NO statement from Alan Joyce re the replacement of the 737-800s, the more likely the existing QF Group order for Neos will be used/leveraged to replace the 737s... And the deferred 8 x A380s cancelled as part of a deal with Airbus for QF getting ad neos. As for the A321LR, I can see it used by both QF mainline and Jetstar like posters above have suggested.
I also will repeat my hope that QF develop a more in depth Pacific and near-Asia route structure using the CSeries.... And also use it to replace the 717s and some 737-800s in the longer term. Reports are that the plane is a game changer and with Air Baltic looking at flying it to Dubai, it's looooong legs and perceived high degree of passenger comfort are surely in no doubt. These features could be useful for QF moving into secondary Indonesian, PNG and Pacific markets... Plus some 'out of the box' transcontinental routes like Hobart-Perth and Sydney-Broome.
Cheers,
Bunumuring.


Speaking of CBR I was reading a CAPA analysis the other day that brought up something I found interesting about QR. The whole QR CBR thing seems to be QR's way of showing that they can serve destinations in Australia outside the big 4 gateways and using that as leverage for Qatar to gain extra in the bilateral. It was also noted that when ADL was announced, the increase on the QR-AUS bilateral was increased from 14 to 21 weekly services very shortly after. While this is pure speculation and coincidence I wonder if we will see something similar if CBR is launched will the bilateral be increased soon after to facilitate BNE
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:36 am

For those interested QF will operate the 744 on QF583 SYD-PER on Wednesday and QF568 PER-SYD (redeye) on Thursday (Friday arrival SYD) as there is a Antarctica charter from PER on Thursday, IIRC departing around 8am
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