Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
kriskim
Posts: 418
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:44 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:01 am

Qantas16 wrote:
Wouldn't be surprising. There is little passenger or freight traffic between BNE-CNS on the BNE-CNS-HKG route so it would make sense to decouple it. That will give them 4 extra frequencies to launch more BNE-HKG direct or to another Australian destination. Though now with Hong Kong Airlines on the CNS-HKG route (albeit only one way) CX may be struggling.


Unfortunately if the flights are decoupled the BNE frequency will need to be accounted for in the bi-lateral agreement. Because the flight stops in CNS, it is not counted as CNS is considered a regional airport.

So no expansion for CX unfortunately.
A world built upon connectivity.
 
SYDSpotter
Posts: 896
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:10 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:01 am

zkncj wrote:
Why do Virgin Australia and Qantas both have the worst Business Class hard product on the Tasman? and provided an much better service on PER-SYD/MEL.


Yes, yes, we all know how Air New Zealand is the best, has the best product, has the best business model, has the best planes, the best yields, best seats, best customer service, best airport check-in kiosks, and one final thing, the best cheerleader on A-Net.

Seriously without fail, you always find a way to incorporate Air NZ into the discussion. We could be talking about VA and QF service between SYD-MEL and you'd find some way of throwing in how Air NZ has the best PE product out there.

zkncj wrote:
ex-AKL most of the MEL,SYD,BNE on NZ aren't A320s for example in April.
AKL-MEL
NZ123 77W
NZ125 789
AKL-SYD
NZ101 789
NZ103 772
NZ105 789
NZ119 789


Yup find a day which only has widebody services to suit your argument. I'll do the same you, so on April 4 2017, 2 out of the 4 AKL-SYD services are operated by the A320:

NZ 101: 789
NZ 103: 789
NZ 719: A320
NZ 705: A320
319_320_321_332_333_359_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W_788_789
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7517
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:22 am

kriskim wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
Wouldn't be surprising. There is little passenger or freight traffic between BNE-CNS on the BNE-CNS-HKG route so it would make sense to decouple it. That will give them 4 extra frequencies to launch more BNE-HKG direct or to another Australian destination. Though now with Hong Kong Airlines on the CNS-HKG route (albeit only one way) CX may be struggling.


Unfortunately if the flights are decoupled the BNE frequency will need to be accounted for in the bi-lateral agreement. Because the flight stops in CNS, it is not counted as CNS is considered a regional airport.

So no expansion for CX unfortunately.


CX are allowed 70 services per week to SYD/MEL/BNE/PER they have

SYD 28
MEL 21
BNE 11
PER 10

4 of the BNE services are via CNS which seems to mean they are kind of wasted? Since they are part of the 70.

They have ADL and I could see CBR as an alternative to SYD and Cathay Dragon to CNS. Their only option is to upguage, I think they would probably like 5 daily to SYD, 4 daily to MEL and 2 daily each to BNE and PER. In the meantime maybe PER and BNE get 77W's, I no BNE is going A350.
 
a320fan
Posts: 841
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:04 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:40 am

travelhound wrote:
qf789 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Would anyone be able to pull the number of 321 flights a day with JQ between SYD and MEL seems most are 321s to me- a decent way for QF group to increase capacity at minimal cost. I still see benefit for 321s for QF on this route!


Actually you will be surprised not as much as expected. Going off today JQ has 19 flights between SYD & MEL each way. Only 6 flights each way see the A321 the rest are A320's


JQ use the A321 aircraft on a triangular route sequence flying one short haul (typically in the morning as a positioning flight) and two long haul flights. You will note the A321's have longer turn around times (sometimes around 1 hour), so they may not be suitable for short haul flying where turn times are critical for achieving acceptable levels of aircraft utilisation.


Surely JQ can work on reducing the turn times on the A321. They have had them for nearly a decade now. an hour seems unreasonably long for a low cost carrier. JQ also use pallets which should lead to quick loading and unloading of the bins, and 40 extra seats shouldn't add 20-30 minutes to the turn time. Having a look at Wizz in Europe it seems they are scheduling their A321s for turn times of 35-45 minutes. 30 - 40 shouldn't be an unreasonable expectation for JQ.
A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A350-900, A380, 737-700, 737-800, 777-200ER, 777-300, 777-300ER, 787-8, Q300, Q400
 
Qantas16
Posts: 767
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:25 am

kriskim wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
Wouldn't be surprising. There is little passenger or freight traffic between BNE-CNS on the BNE-CNS-HKG route so it would make sense to decouple it. That will give them 4 extra frequencies to launch more BNE-HKG direct or to another Australian destination. Though now with Hong Kong Airlines on the CNS-HKG route (albeit only one way) CX may be struggling.


Unfortunately if the flights are decoupled the BNE frequency will need to be accounted for in the bi-lateral agreement. Because the flight stops in CNS, it is not counted as CNS is considered a regional airport.

So no expansion for CX unfortunately.


I thought that wasn't true for the Hong Kong bilateral... This discussion was had a few months ago and someone provided evidence that they do count. Could be wrong though...
 
log0008
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:33 am

a320fan wrote:
travelhound wrote:
qf789 wrote:

Actually you will be surprised not as much as expected. Going off today JQ has 19 flights between SYD & MEL each way. Only 6 flights each way see the A321 the rest are A320's


JQ use the A321 aircraft on a triangular route sequence flying one short haul (typically in the morning as a positioning flight) and two long haul flights. You will note the A321's have longer turn around times (sometimes around 1 hour), so they may not be suitable for short haul flying where turn times are critical for achieving acceptable levels of aircraft utilisation.


Surely JQ can work on reducing the turn times on the A321. They have had them for nearly a decade now. an hour seems unreasonably long for a low cost carrier. JQ also use pallets which should lead to quick loading and unloading of the bins, and 40 extra seats shouldn't add 20-30 minutes to the turn time. Having a look at Wizz in Europe it seems they are scheduling their A321s for turn times of 35-45 minutes. 30 - 40 shouldn't be an unreasonable expectation for JQ.


They seems to be turning them in close to 40 mins. Good example is: https://www.flightradar24.com/reg/vh-vwn
 
Bluebird191
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:45 am

My understanding was that the HKG-CNS-BNE-CNS-HKG flights don't count towards their total as CNS is a "regional airport" as previously mentioned as routing that flight via CNS circumvents the limit on flights per week to the major ports. I could be wrong, so please correct me if I am.
 
747m8te
Posts: 438
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:14 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:58 am

Bluebird191 wrote:
My understanding was that the HKG-CNS-BNE-CNS-HKG flights don't count towards their total as CNS is a "regional airport" as previously mentioned as routing that flight via CNS circumvents the limit on flights per week to the major ports. I could be wrong, so please correct me if I am.


Unfortunately it does count as BNE is involved indirectly or not.
Flown on:
DHC8Q200,DHC8Q300,DHC8Q400, EMB145,E170,E175,E190, A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A380, MD80, B712,B733,B734,B737,B738,B743,B744,B744ER,B762,B763,B77W
 
81819
Posts: 2008
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 9:13 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:20 pm

A320fan & log0008,

My argument revolves around the associated complexity associated with introducing the A321 for short haul flying in the JQ network.

From where I sit the A321NEO will be better suited for longer routes and as such JQ will probably stick with their proven current model (using A320's) for domestic flying.

If for argument sake, JQ swap A320's for A321's for flying across the Tasman, we potentially have demand for approximately five A321's. If we include the two older A321's in the JQ fleet we have a requirement for another two aircraft. If we throw in Perth flights we could see another 3-4 A321's. If we now throw in flights to the Solomon Islands, Fiji, etc, we could have a need for another 3-4 aircraft. As such the Australian JQ network could absorb fifteen A321's into the fleet with out fundamentally changing the Jetstar route model and size of aircraft.

Jetstar Asia is another airline that could absorb quite a few A321's. The A321NEO's longer range and capacity simply means they will have more destinations on their radar that are economic and capable of being supported by a single type of aircraft.

Jetstar Japan would probably have similar opportunities.
 
bunumuring
Posts: 2531
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:56 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:20 pm

Hey guys,
I had an interesting conversation tonight with someone in the know who suggested that Singapore's Canberra services do very well on the Monday and Friday flights but poorly on the Wednesday flights. Despite some bullish talking there is apparently little chance of an increase in services in the near future.
As for the Qatar services into Canberra, apparently it may not be as solid as we all think. Perhaps, as qf789 suggested, it is part of a bargaining strategy to increase bilaterals overall and put some pressure on 'the other two'...
As for the 'other Australian destination' rumoured for Cathay Dragon, I have no idea nor did my source. Could it be Adelaide or Perth? I'm sure it wouldn't be any of the big three and I agree that the Gold Coast just seems unlikely. Could it be some kind of triangulated service to Cairns and Townsville or Cairns and Darwin? Pure speculation on my part. Canberra I think is unlikely, although there is THAT speculation about a possible third international airline launching services in the next twelve months...
And my fearless predictions for 2017... All my speculation, no inside communication on any of these
* Alan Joyce to announce his departure from QF as he takes delivery of the first Dreamliner...
* QF to firm up another 3-4 Dreamliner 9s, either upon delivery of their first one or when they announce their financials in the third quarter...
* QF to launch at least one more 'out of the box' route, along the lines of the arguably radical move to launch Perth-London nonstop...
* John Borghetti to leave VA and be replaced by someone very very respected in the airline business, with either sand in his shoes or a strong accent...
* VA to continue to refine their network and perhaps reduce in size before expanding again in the medium future as the MAXs arrive and a decision in made on its future widebody fleet...
* Chinese airlines continue to expand into Australia and connect more and more Chinese directly with Australia, fragmenting he market away from the traditional gateways of Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou (plus Hong Kong)....
* Turkish Airlines' plans to service Sydney/Melbourne will quietly disappear, and nothing further will happen with Alitalia's stated desire to serve Sydney again...
Cheers,
Bunumuring.
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
zkncj
Posts: 3892
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:02 pm

travelhound wrote:
If for argument sake, JQ swap A320's for A321's for flying across the Tasman, we potentially have demand for approximately five A321's. If we include the two older A321's in the JQ fleet we have a requirement for another two aircraft. If we throw in Perth flights we could see another 3-4 A321's. If we now throw in flights to the Solomon Islands, Fiji, etc, we could have a need for another 3-4 aircraft. As such the Australian JQ network could absorb fifteen A321's into the fleet with out fundamentally changing the Jetstar route model and size of aircraft.


It's yet to be seen if an A321NEO will be able to use ZQN, surely it could be a good fit durring peak periods on AKL-ZQN-AKL. Currently JQ on same days have 2x A320 services that are within an hour of each other.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:38 pm

bunumuring wrote:
* Alan Joyce to announce his departure from QF as he takes delivery of the first Dreamliner...


Anything's possible, of course, but that seems like a very curious time for AJ to leave.

Having weathered more crap than just about any other CEO in Qantas' history, surely he'd want to enjoy running the airline in the good times and part of that enjoyment has to be the introduction of the 787, an aircraft he has very avidly promoted.

More than that, by taking what some consider to be a huge gamble with PER-LHR (a so-called "game-changing" route) surely he'd want to see that through?

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
bunumuring
Posts: 2531
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:56 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:30 pm

Hey Mariner,
Yes I see your point, but how many 'champions' / 'leaders' prefer to go out on a high when all has been accomplished in their eyes? The delivery of the first Dreamliner would be a pinnacle for Alan Joyce as would be the commencement of Perth-LHR.... He has put up with the crap and why not leave at the top, enjoy some well-earned R&R before resuming his career elsewhere... For example with BA like a certain ex-Ansett leader did last century...
Yes, anything is possible. Watch this space.
And oh,,, Baird for PM, wink. Give it 12-18 months. And he will be an awesome PM!
Cheers,
Bunumuring.
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
jupiter2
Posts: 1739
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2001 11:30 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:59 pm

bunumuring wrote:
Hey Mariner,
Yes I see your point, but how many 'champions' / 'leaders' prefer to go out on a high when all has been accomplished in their eyes? The delivery of the first Dreamliner would be a pinnacle for Alan Joyce as would be the commencement of Perth-LHR.... He has put up with the crap and why not leave at the top, enjoy some well-earned R&R before resuming his career elsewhere... For example with BA like a certain ex-Ansett leader did last century...
Yes, anything is possible. Watch this space.
And oh,,, Baird for PM, wink. Give it 12-18 months. And he will be an awesome PM!
Cheers,
Bunumuring.


You are kidding about that last statement aren't you ? He is an egotist has has done nothing but commission monuments to himself.

As for TK coming to Australia, every time some nut sets off a bomb, or starts shooting at innocent people in Turkey, any chance of that flight starting has another nail hammered into the coffin unfortunately.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:28 pm

bunumuring wrote:
Hey Mariner,
Yes I see your point, but how many 'champions' / 'leaders' prefer to go out on a high when all has been accomplished in their eyes? The delivery of the first Dreamliner would be a pinnacle for Alan Joyce as would be the commencement of Perth-LHR.... He has put up with the crap and why not leave at the top, enjoy some well-earned R&R before resuming his career elsewhere...


I'm not sure that I think simply taking delivery of an aircraft would be the pinnacle - in the eyes of av.nuts perhaps, but not so much the business world - and all his public statements are that he has no plans to move on - yet.

He has already lasted longer (eight years) than the average tenure of Australian CEO's (less than five years), so the day will inevitably come, but I hope it's later rather than sooner - I think Qantas could do with an extended period of stability.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
DeltaB717
Posts: 1719
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:50 pm

Re: TT and the B737s:

VH-VUD's runs to ADL and back over the last several days are also, so I'm told, acting as a training opportunity, so between that and route proving would explain the number of flights. Makes sense to roll the two together - the route proving requires demonstrating a turnaround enroute and that same turnaround offers an opportunity to switch crew and 'give more people a go'.

What's so 'difficult' about securing CASA approval to add the B737 to their AOC is that TT itself has no experience operating the B737 (VA's experience doesn't really count as TT has to demonstrate it can manage on its own), until recently has had little (if anything) in the way of pilots qualified on the B737, etc. It has to be considered as though VA were not the parent because TT's AOC is considered separate.
 
smi0006
Posts: 2575
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:21 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
Re: TT and the B737s:

VH-VUD's runs to ADL and back over the last several days are also, so I'm told, acting as a training opportunity, so between that and route proving would explain the number of flights. Makes sense to roll the two together - the route proving requires demonstrating a turnaround enroute and that same turnaround offers an opportunity to switch crew and 'give more people a go'.

What's so 'difficult' about securing CASA approval to add the B737 to their AOC is that TT itself has no experience operating the B737 (VA's experience doesn't really count as TT has to demonstrate it can manage on its own), until recently has had little (if anything) in the way of pilots qualified on the B737, etc. It has to be considered as though VA were not the parent because TT's AOC is considered separate.


So will these 738 be operated with TT tech and cabin crew domestically? Or remain with TT cabin crew, and VA tech crew? Seems an odd business model for a LCC- small mixed fleet and expensive crewing? I wonder who pays the bill for VA tech crew operating up to DPS? VA or TT?
 
log0008
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:02 am

Tianjin Airlines has filed operational schedule for its planned debut in Australia later this year, with planned Chongqing – Melbourne route. Based on current schedule filing in the GDS as well as week of 22JAN17’s OAG Schedules Analyser update, the airline plans 3 weekly service from 27SEP17.

Reservation will be available at a later date. The following schedule is effective from 01OCT17, reflecting daylight savings time adjustment.

GS7945 CKG0010 – 1230MEL 332 357
GS7946 MEL1430 – 2200CKG 332 357


http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... -sep-2017/
 
log0008
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:03 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
Re: TT and the B737s:

VH-VUD's runs to ADL and back over the last several days are also, so I'm told, acting as a training opportunity, so between that and route proving would explain the number of flights. Makes sense to roll the two together - the route proving requires demonstrating a turnaround enroute and that same turnaround offers an opportunity to switch crew and 'give more people a go'.

What's so 'difficult' about securing CASA approval to add the B737 to their AOC is that TT itself has no experience operating the B737 (VA's experience doesn't really count as TT has to demonstrate it can manage on its own), until recently has had little (if anything) in the way of pilots qualified on the B737, etc. It has to be considered as though VA were not the parent because TT's AOC is considered separate.


Assuming the proving flights are done how long would it take CASA to approve the B737?
 
DeltaB717
Posts: 1719
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:06 am

smi0006 wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
Re: TT and the B737s:

VH-VUD's runs to ADL and back over the last several days are also, so I'm told, acting as a training opportunity, so between that and route proving would explain the number of flights. Makes sense to roll the two together - the route proving requires demonstrating a turnaround enroute and that same turnaround offers an opportunity to switch crew and 'give more people a go'.

What's so 'difficult' about securing CASA approval to add the B737 to their AOC is that TT itself has no experience operating the B737 (VA's experience doesn't really count as TT has to demonstrate it can manage on its own), until recently has had little (if anything) in the way of pilots qualified on the B737, etc. It has to be considered as though VA were not the parent because TT's AOC is considered separate.


So will these 738 be operated with TT tech and cabin crew domestically? Or remain with TT cabin crew, and VA tech crew? Seems an odd business model for a LCC- small mixed fleet and expensive crewing? I wonder who pays the bill for VA tech crew operating up to DPS? VA or TT?


Eventually TT will be all-B737 which removes the mixed fleet element. TT has an application in with CASA to add the B737 type to its AOC for which they intend to transition to having their own B737 tech crew operating, so the VA tech crew will revert to operating for VA. Unsure how TT has been splitting the costs with VA for the tech crew operating to DPS (I guess ultimately it wouldn't matter because VAH foots the bill either way, so it's only an 'on-paper' treatment) but looks like being a moot point soon anyway as the A320s will take over the DPS routes from 3 Feb (subject to operational approvals being in place).
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2859
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:01 am

CX BNE-CNS-HKG... I think these are counted, but I wouldn't call them "wasted".
Look here and compare the Hong Kong and Qatar agreements- the latter has the exception:
https://infrastructure.gov.au/aviation/ ... 170616.pdf
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 11137
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:06 pm

BME-SIN flights could be a step closer though likely to start as a charter and if received well may see regular flights

A proposal to introduce flights between Broome and Singapore this year is progressing with a consortium looking to appoint an airline to run the services.
The intent is to trial three to four return flights this year as a pilot to determine passenger demand and viability of regular services between the two locations into the future.
Meetings have been held with Singapore Airlines subsidiary Silk Air and travel agents in the Asian city to sell five-day/four night packages into Broome.


https://thewest.com.au/news/regional/si ... b88363291z
Forum Moderator
 
luftaom
Posts: 782
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 4:29 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:44 pm

I seem to recall that someone (Merpati maybe?) had a go at Broome-DPS in the mid 90s and then someone else had a go in the early 00s - both only briefly. Then again, a 4 of 5 charter rotation is an altogether different proposition.
Reading between the lines of the article it seems to suggest that operating a 180 seat aircraft (320/738) empty on a 4 hour stage length costs in the region of $50,000.
Thanks qf789 for your continued excellent posts on all manner of topics - this thread and the knowledgeable contributions to it is the highlight of the forums.
airliners.net's passenger - simultaneously connecting and flying direct.
 
Qantas16
Posts: 767
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:21 am

Norfolk Island Airlines (Norfolk Island) has announced that it will be launching a Brisbane Int'l–Norfolk Island–Auckland Int'l service, following the decision by Air New Zealand (NZ, Auckland Int'l) to abandon the Auckland – Norfolk route.

Gregg Prechelt, Director of Norfolk Island Airlines, confirmed on his LinkedIn page that the start-up will commence a once weekly passenger service from May 27, 2017 using a B737-300 wet-leased from Nauru Airlines (ON, Nauru). Depending on demand, a second flight may be added. Prechelt has said that they will be targeting travel wholesalers and agents.

Air New Zealand is the only scheduled airline currently serving the tiny Australian island, which is located 1,466 kilometres from Brisbane and 1,090 kilometres from Auckland. It flies once weekly Norfolk – Auckland direct, but has announced it will stop the route in May 2017, saying that it is not commercially viable. Without a direct flight, Kiwis would need to fly an additional 3,000 kilometres to go via Brisbane or Sydney.

Prechelt previously headed up Norfolk Jet Express (YE, Norfolk Island), which connected Norfolk Island with mainland Australian cities as well as Auckland. That airline went into liquidation in 2005.

Source: http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/ ... land-route


Interesting to see, not sure how successful it will be but wish them all the best.

On a side note, now that Norfolk Island is a domestic destination, could this flight leave from the BNE Domestic Terminal? Obviously Immigration wouldn't be a problem but what about Quarantine? I believe there are still quarantine restrictions in place between Oz and Norfolk that are stricter than interstate rules (e.g. Tasmania to Mainland)
 
smi0006
Posts: 2575
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:06 pm

Qantas16 wrote:
Norfolk Island Airlines (Norfolk Island) has announced that it will be launching a Brisbane Int'l–Norfolk Island–Auckland Int'l service, following the decision by Air New Zealand (NZ, Auckland Int'l) to abandon the Auckland – Norfolk route.

Gregg Prechelt, Director of Norfolk Island Airlines, confirmed on his LinkedIn page that the start-up will commence a once weekly passenger service from May 27, 2017 using a B737-300 wet-leased from Nauru Airlines (ON, Nauru). Depending on demand, a second flight may be added. Prechelt has said that they will be targeting travel wholesalers and agents.

Air New Zealand is the only scheduled airline currently serving the tiny Australian island, which is located 1,466 kilometres from Brisbane and 1,090 kilometres from Auckland. It flies once weekly Norfolk – Auckland direct, but has announced it will stop the route in May 2017, saying that it is not commercially viable. Without a direct flight, Kiwis would need to fly an additional 3,000 kilometres to go via Brisbane or Sydney.

Prechelt previously headed up Norfolk Jet Express (YE, Norfolk Island), which connected Norfolk Island with mainland Australian cities as well as Auckland. That airline went into liquidation in 2005.

Source: http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/ ... land-route


Interesting to see, not sure how successful it will be but wish them all the best.

On a side note, now that Norfolk Island is a domestic destination, could this flight leave from the BNE Domestic Terminal? Obviously Immigration wouldn't be a problem but what about Quarantine? I believe there are still quarantine restrictions in place between Oz and Norfolk that are stricter than interstate rules (e.g. Tasmania to Mainland)


How odd, NZ drop AKL-NLK, so you start BNE-NLK which NZ continue to operate on? Am I missing something I don't see the connection?
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:44 pm

smi0006 wrote:
How odd, NZ drop AKL-NLK, so you start BNE-NLK which NZ continue to operate on? Am I missing something I don't see the connection?


Image

I'm scratching my head about that one, too.

I'm also a bit alarmed about the idea that James Hogan - departing CEO of Etihad - will take over as CEO at Virgin Australia:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1353711&p=19315381#p19315381

Virgin Australia needs a feet-on-the-ground realist, not another high-flying, big-spender with stars in his eyes.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
DeltaB717
Posts: 1719
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:40 pm

smi0006 wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
Norfolk Island Airlines (Norfolk Island) has announced that it will be launching a Brisbane Int'l–Norfolk Island–Auckland Int'l service, following the decision by Air New Zealand (NZ, Auckland Int'l) to abandon the Auckland – Norfolk route.

Gregg Prechelt, Director of Norfolk Island Airlines, confirmed on his LinkedIn page that the start-up will commence a once weekly passenger service from May 27, 2017 using a B737-300 wet-leased from Nauru Airlines (ON, Nauru). Depending on demand, a second flight may be added. Prechelt has said that they will be targeting travel wholesalers and agents.

Air New Zealand is the only scheduled airline currently serving the tiny Australian island, which is located 1,466 kilometres from Brisbane and 1,090 kilometres from Auckland. It flies once weekly Norfolk – Auckland direct, but has announced it will stop the route in May 2017, saying that it is not commercially viable. Without a direct flight, Kiwis would need to fly an additional 3,000 kilometres to go via Brisbane or Sydney.

Prechelt previously headed up Norfolk Jet Express (YE, Norfolk Island), which connected Norfolk Island with mainland Australian cities as well as Auckland. That airline went into liquidation in 2005.

Source: http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/ ... land-route


Interesting to see, not sure how successful it will be but wish them all the best.

On a side note, now that Norfolk Island is a domestic destination, could this flight leave from the BNE Domestic Terminal? Obviously Immigration wouldn't be a problem but what about Quarantine? I believe there are still quarantine restrictions in place between Oz and Norfolk that are stricter than interstate rules (e.g. Tasmania to Mainland)


How odd, NZ drop AKL-NLK, so you start BNE-NLK which NZ continue to operate on? Am I missing something I don't see the connection?


Gotta get the aircraft to the island somehow, and it may as well make you some money! Interesting question re departing from domestic terminal... part of me says no but not because of quarantine etc.
 
waoz1
Posts: 580
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:31 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:57 am

qf789 wrote:
BME-SIN flights could be a step closer though likely to start as a charter and if received well may see regular flights

A proposal to introduce flights between Broome and Singapore this year is progressing with a consortium looking to appoint an airline to run the services.
The intent is to trial three to four return flights this year as a pilot to determine passenger demand and viability of regular services between the two locations into the future.
Meetings have been held with Singapore Airlines subsidiary Silk Air and travel agents in the Asian city to sell five-day/four night packages into Broome.


https://thewest.com.au/news/regional/si ... b88363291z


Good news if it happens. Broome needs an injection of tourists, the prices charged from Perth and pathetic by both carriers.
If i remember rightly wasn't Skywest looking at this a few years back?
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 11137
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:48 am

Air New Zealand will open its first airport lounge at PER by end of the year

https://www.ausbt.com.au/air-new-zealan ... ort-lounge
Forum Moderator
 
waoz1
Posts: 580
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:31 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:10 am

qf789 wrote:
Air New Zealand will open its first airport lounge at PER by end of the year

https://www.ausbt.com.au/air-new-zealan ... ort-lounge


I wonder if Eithad and Virgin will do something as well.
 
smi0006
Posts: 2575
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:03 am

waoz1 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Air New Zealand will open its first airport lounge at PER by end of the year

https://www.ausbt.com.au/air-new-zealan ... ort-lounge


I wonder if Eithad and Virgin will do something as well.


Interesting didn't NZ just kick VA out of all its lounges on the east coast and LAX except for Tasman traffic? VA now use DL in LAX, EY in SYD an no idea for new MEL-LAX flight. MEL-NAN pax are sent to domestic lounge or given a voucher... Not very premium for LAX pax unless they use EY or SQ - bit of a mess!
 
zkncj
Posts: 3892
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:02 am

smi0006 wrote:
waoz1 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Air New Zealand will open its first airport lounge at PER by end of the year

https://www.ausbt.com.au/air-new-zealan ... ort-lounge


I wonder if Eithad and Virgin will do something as well.


Interesting didn't NZ just kick VA out of all its lounges on the east coast and LAX except for Tasman traffic? VA now use DL in LAX, EY in SYD an no idea for new MEL-LAX flight. MEL-NAN pax are sent to domestic lounge or given a voucher... Not very premium for LAX pax unless they use EY or SQ - bit of a mess!


Wouldn't say NZ kicked them out, more VA didn't want to pay the price that NZ wanted so they choose to leave.

VA Lounge Access is an joke! https://www.virginaustralia.com/nz/en/e ... ge-access/

In LAX VA hasn't moved to T2 (Happens later this year), so J gets EH Lounge and VA Gold no longer has access in LAX.

In MEL NAN/LAX passengers have to use the Domestic Lounge.

SYD - you need an guide book just to workout what lounge your allowed access to:
SYD-AKL,WLG,CHC,ZQN - NZ Lounge
SYD-APW - SkyTeam Lounge (20minute walk to gate)
SYD-DPS,NAN,TBU - SQ Lounge
SYD-LAX/ABU - EH Lounge
 
CXfirst
Posts: 3022
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:13 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:09 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
Re: TT and the B737s:

What's so 'difficult' about securing CASA approval to add the B737 to their AOC is that TT itself has no experience operating the B737 (VA's experience doesn't really count as TT has to demonstrate it can manage on its own), until recently has had little (if anything) in the way of pilots qualified on the B737, etc. It has to be considered as though VA were not the parent because TT's AOC is considered separate.


This process just seems to have been more difficult and outdrawn than a normal new type entering a fleet. Can't remember VA having this sort of trouble with the E190 for instance.

qf789 wrote:
BME-SIN flights could be a step closer though likely to start as a charter and if received well may see regular flights

A proposal to introduce flights between Broome and Singapore this year is progressing with a consortium looking to appoint an airline to run the services.
The intent is to trial three to four return flights this year as a pilot to determine passenger demand and viability of regular services between the two locations into the future.
Meetings have been held with Singapore Airlines subsidiary Silk Air and travel agents in the Asian city to sell five-day/four night packages into Broome.


https://thewest.com.au/news/regional/si ... b88363291z


Broome airports infrastructure is a bit lacking in my opinion. There is just one arrivals belt, with a small customs area (that is normally closed off). 180 passengers would take some time. Also, there is only one departures area. It would be easy enough to put some outgoing immigration counters (non permanent) just past security. However, biggest problem would be that they could not handle domestic and international at the same time. This limits the times of day that they could handle international flights, and any delays would cause even more problems.

Also, ingoing immigration would either be at the door from the apron (so a line standing outside in the sun) or through a part of the departures area, which would either mean that all arrivals must be processed before departure passengers are let through security, or some sort of fencing (that can be opened) must be installed.

Worked there for a while, and it needs a big upgrade for any serious RPT international. A couple charters can be worked, but far from ideal (operations wise).

-CXfirst
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 11137
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:02 am

Effective 15 July 17 PR will send a 309 3 class seat A333 instead of a 363 2 class A333 on MNL-MEL

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... e-changes/
Forum Moderator
 
Ryanair01
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:27 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:07 am

Whoever takes over VA, I really hope they begin to get the customer service offer sorted out. Incomprehensible lounge access in Sydney (intl), no credible lounge access in Melbourne (intl) and seemingly random inflight offer varying by route domestically really devalue the brand to me. I want to like Virgin, but they make it hard sometimes.
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2859
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:09 am

smi0006 wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
Norfolk Island Airlines (Norfolk Island) has announced that it will be launching a Brisbane Int'l–Norfolk Island–Auckland Int'l service, following the decision by Air New Zealand (NZ, Auckland Int'l) to abandon the Auckland – Norfolk route.

Gregg Prechelt, Director of Norfolk Island Airlines, confirmed on his LinkedIn page that the start-up will commence a once weekly passenger service from May 27, 2017 using a B737-300 wet-leased from Nauru Airlines (ON, Nauru). Depending on demand, a second flight may be added. Prechelt has said that they will be targeting travel wholesalers and agents.

Air New Zealand is the only scheduled airline currently serving the tiny Australian island, which is located 1,466 kilometres from Brisbane and 1,090 kilometres from Auckland. It flies once weekly Norfolk – Auckland direct, but has announced it will stop the route in May 2017, saying that it is not commercially viable. Without a direct flight, Kiwis would need to fly an additional 3,000 kilometres to go via Brisbane or Sydney.

Prechelt previously headed up Norfolk Jet Express (YE, Norfolk Island), which connected Norfolk Island with mainland Australian cities as well as Auckland. That airline went into liquidation in 2005.

Source: http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/ ... land-route


Interesting to see, not sure how successful it will be but wish them all the best.

On a side note, now that Norfolk Island is a domestic destination, could this flight leave from the BNE Domestic Terminal? Obviously Immigration wouldn't be a problem but what about Quarantine? I believe there are still quarantine restrictions in place between Oz and Norfolk that are stricter than interstate rules (e.g. Tasmania to Mainland)


How odd, NZ drop AKL-NLK, so you start BNE-NLK which NZ continue to operate on? Am I missing something I don't see the connection?


As Nauru Airlines has lots of spare capacity around BNE, I see this as a creative way to kick NZ off the BNE-NLK (and SYD-NLK later) routes come tender time. Also, there's a chance of selling BNE-AKL tickets as well to fill up spare seats.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:37 am

eta unknown wrote:
As Nauru Airlines has lots of spare capacity around BNE, I see this as a creative way to kick NZ off the BNE-NLK (and SYD-NLK later) routes come tender time. Also, there's a chance of selling BNE-AKL tickets as well to fill up spare seats.


I wish 'em luck, always, but there's a strong sense of deja vu about it. Nauru and the contractor Norfolk Air had an unhappy history of providing service to the island and it ended in tears. I believe the same people are involved this time around.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 5558
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:28 am

On the topic of QF A330 reconfigure program I'm totally baffled why they didn't simply reconfigure the entire fleet with 1 product offering. Would've meant a consistent product offering & flexibility! A mini iPad isn't a international product offering!

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
Qantas16
Posts: 767
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:02 am

eta unknown wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:

Interesting to see, not sure how successful it will be but wish them all the best.

On a side note, now that Norfolk Island is a domestic destination, could this flight leave from the BNE Domestic Terminal? Obviously Immigration wouldn't be a problem but what about Quarantine? I believe there are still quarantine restrictions in place between Oz and Norfolk that are stricter than interstate rules (e.g. Tasmania to Mainland)


How odd, NZ drop AKL-NLK, so you start BNE-NLK which NZ continue to operate on? Am I missing something I don't see the connection?


As Nauru Airlines has lots of spare capacity around BNE, I see this as a creative way to kick NZ off the BNE-NLK (and SYD-NLK later) routes come tender time. Also, there's a chance of selling BNE-AKL tickets as well to fill up spare seats.


I would question if anyone beyond some AvGeeks would purchase tickets BNE-NLK-ALK when fares are dirt cheap anyway (especially once you include OOL-AKL flights)
 
BNEFlyer
Posts: 263
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:41 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:20 am

zkncj wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
waoz1 wrote:

I wonder if Eithad and Virgin will do something as well.


Interesting didn't NZ just kick VA out of all its lounges on the east coast and LAX except for Tasman traffic? VA now use DL in LAX, EY in SYD an no idea for new MEL-LAX flight. MEL-NAN pax are sent to domestic lounge or given a voucher... Not very premium for LAX pax unless they use EY or SQ - bit of a mess!


Wouldn't say NZ kicked them out, more VA didn't want to pay the price that NZ wanted so they choose to leave.

VA Lounge Access is an joke! https://www.virginaustralia.com/nz/en/e ... ge-access/

In LAX VA hasn't moved to T2 (Happens later this year), so J gets EH Lounge and VA Gold no longer has access in LAX.

In MEL NAN/LAX passengers have to use the Domestic Lounge.

SYD - you need an guide book just to workout what lounge your allowed access to:
SYD-AKL,WLG,CHC,ZQN - NZ Lounge
SYD-APW - SkyTeam Lounge (20minute walk to gate)
SYD-DPS,NAN,TBU - SQ Lounge
SYD-LAX/ABU - EH Lounge


*EY not EH. When VA move they'll have access to new DL SkyClubs.

In MEL I suspect VA will use the NZ or EY lounges.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 11137
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:27 am

Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
LionelHutz
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:39 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:46 pm

mariner wrote:

I'm also a bit alarmed about the idea that James Hogan - departing CEO of Etihad - will take over as CEO at Virgin Australia:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1353711&p=19315381#p19315381

Virgin Australia needs a feet-on-the-ground realist, not another high-flying, big-spender with stars in his eyes.

mariner


My thoughts exactly.
I can't imagine SQ is exactly thrilled with performance of late and wouldn't look kindly on someone like Hogan...
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4529
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:00 am

Happy Straya Day!
The rumour mill is swirling that QF are about to order the 778 and announce non-stop SYD-LHR and SYD-JFK services with them.
Then presumably they would replace the A380 with 779 at some point down the road.
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 11137
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:04 am

737MAX8 will visit Australia for the first time today. Test aircraft N8704Q is scheduled to arrive in DRW at 520pm. Will be here in Australia for about a week for high humidity testing

https://www.facebook.com/pg/AIRLINESECRETS/posts/
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 11137
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:12 am

Zkpilot wrote:
Happy Straya Day!
The rumour mill is swirling that QF are about to order the 778 and announce non-stop SYD-LHR and SYD-JFK services with them.
Then presumably they would replace the A380 with 779 at some point down the road.


I was about to post the same thing but you beat me to it, oh well. On airline secrets it mentions a rather pleasant announcement coming for QF at Seattle.

Newscorp also seems to be reporting QF is in the market for a ULH aircraft

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-ad ... 1781c7cd62
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
KruegerFlaps
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:17 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:38 am

Regular visitors to PER will have noticed a pair of 737-200s that were formerly with OzJet and have been parked there since that airline's demise. The aircraft have now changed ownership and are to be relocated to White Gum Airfield, near York in Western Australia. Because they are no longer airworthy, the aircraft will be disassembled and moved by road and then rebuilt on site.

It is planned that one will be converted into novelty accommodation, while the other will be set up as a display:
will have an attraction that not many country’s have; a unique opportunity to see and touch parts of an aircraft only a very few get to experience. We will showcase the aircraft in a unique way, stripping back some of the internal facades to reveal what goes on under the skin. Opening the hatches and the secrets that lie beneath. Where is the black box anyway?


http://www.737-200.com.au/index.htm
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt Speech, 1783
 
smi0006
Posts: 2575
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:39 am

qf789 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Happy Straya Day!
The rumour mill is swirling that QF are about to order the 778 and announce non-stop SYD-LHR and SYD-JFK services with them.
Then presumably they would replace the A380 with 779 at some point down the road.


I was about to post the same thing but you beat me to it, oh well. On airline secrets it mentions a rather pleasant announcement coming for QF at Seattle.

Newscorp also seems to be reporting QF is in the market for a ULH aircraft

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-ad ... 1781c7cd62


Interesting if it does come to fruition. And would make for more interesting thinner longer routes.

10-15 789 for services ex-MEL, PER, BNE to US, LHR and Asia. Or would more be required? A330s still do a good job to Asia where range isn't an issue.
8 778 for services ex-SYD, MEL (LHR, JFK, DFW, CDG, SCL, JNB)
12-14 779 for MEL/SYD to LHR, LAX, HKG, HND, etc

Domestic & Tasman could be 320NEO/321NEO and 330. With a premium 321 config for transcon and Tasman.

Or could the 380 positions become 350?
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 11137
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:40 am

Breaking news, a light aircraft has crashed into the Swan River in Perth around 5pm local time, both pilot and 1 passenger have been killed

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western ... d033feeece
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
angusjt
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:08 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:42 am

Light aircraft crash on the Swan River in Perth has seen two fatalities and ultimately cancelled the fireworks

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/34277136/pl ... -sky-show/
 
bunumuring
Posts: 2531
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:56 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 149

Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:13 am

jupiter2 wrote:
You are kidding about that last statement aren't you ? He is an egotist has has done nothing but commission monuments to himself.


Hey mate, we will have to agree to disagree on that one. Mike Baird is the most genuine politician and a good guy. He has done wonders to get Sydney's transport infrastructure developing forward, amongst a ton of other things. He would continue to do wonders as PM... As long as the federal Libs get behind him in the way the state Libs did (excepting a certain poor decision on a certain form of racing...)

And Mariner, As for James Hogan at Virgin Australia... There's always Qantas up for grabs when Alan Joyce moves on... but then again, there are at least two other well-respected non-Aussie ex airline leaders in this part of the world who may be ready to step back into battle. Might be quite a while before QF has an Aussie accent again rallying the troops from the very top! Just my humble opinion of course. Have no doubt however that succession planning is not as important in the local airline industry as it is in politics, lol.

As for the QF 777 rumours... Wouldn't it have been awesome for QF to announce such an order today, Australia Day, linked to the simultaneous announcement of nonstop Sydney-LHR and / or Sydney-JFK flights? I truly hope the rumours come true soon! In my fantasy world, QF would also offer one stop flights to LHR via JFK, wink.... Yep, round the world flights Sydney-JFK-LHR-Sydney. Sigh, it will never happen as it would be a monumental black hole financially but wouldn't it be great for prestige... Well, back to reality now!

Cheers,
Bunumuring.
I just wanna live while I'm alive!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos