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flyguy84
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UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:50 pm

According to reports, Julia Haywood who was recently announced as EVP and Chief Commercial Officer is no longer with the company.

Quite a strange turn of events...
Last edited by flyguy84 on Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:54 pm

Interesting. I was never sure what a CCO was and why UAL needed one.
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SFOtoORD
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:56 pm

She was also a BCG Consultant for 12 years and maybe the transition to going in house didn't go well.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:02 pm

She is going back to BCG.

With Kirby coming onboard who excels at revenue, pricing, and network, don't think Julia's stated position had much left anymore.

UA now just needs a sharp commercial/sales/marketing leader to round out the team in the C suite.
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commavia
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:03 pm

Interesting turn of events, indeed. I figured it had something to do with Kirby - seemed like competencies were somewhat overlapping.
 
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ua900
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:31 pm

There goes the UA millennial advocacy... sad... I respect Kirby for the outside perspective he brings to UA (much like I would have appreciated a high level DL defector), but Julia seemed to bring a fresh point of view to the table, for millennial 1k customers like myself. IMO her analysis of my segment was spot on: https://www.bcgperspectives.com/content ... llennials/
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:49 pm

I've never had a high opinion of consultants in the US airline arena. In a large organization as United they typically do work that was already done or come up with asinine marketing insights that are in dozens of industry publications. To mention nothing of the exorbitant amount they charge. Looks like Kirby saw through the smoke screen.

She just bought a multi million dollar home in the area so it's clear she was not expecting this but high ranking consultants take care of their own.I wonder how bcg will fair in getting United business in the future now that their inside person is out.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/realestate/elitestreet/ct-elite-street-lincoln-park-mansion-1225-biz-20161221-story.html
 
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:56 pm

Yuk, $2.8 for a house like that, more money than sense. To each their own.
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atcsundevil
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:03 pm

I'm glad to see they're trimming towards the top. They got so top heavy in the Smisek area, and there simply weren't results to prove their worth. I'm hoping that a more efficient, streamlined company can perform more effectively. UA has improved markedly in the past year, but they still have a long way to go to catch up with DL and once again be a market leader. I believe that moves like this help to that end.
 
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:09 pm

flyingcat wrote:
I've never had a high opinion of consultants in the US airline arena. In a large organization as United they typically do work that was already done or come up with asinine marketing insights that are in dozens of industry publications. To mention nothing of the exorbitant amount they charge. Looks like Kirby saw through the smoke screen.

She just bought a multi million dollar home in the area so it's clear she was not expecting this but high ranking consultants take care of their own.I wonder how bcg will fair in getting United business in the future now that their inside person is out.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/realestate/elitestreet/ct-elite-street-lincoln-park-mansion-1225-biz-20161221-story.html


Her golden parachute will probably cover the house price. That said seems she grossly overpaid what looks like a very average house. Good luck when she sells it.
 
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:30 pm

$500 sq ft is about average for Lincoln Park and not bad for a brand new house.

I don't understand all the consultant hate. Many top execs have had consulting backgrounds. Being a consultant isn't inherently good or bad. Just depends on the quality of staff and output you get. Some suck and some are great.
 
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ua900
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:50 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
I'm glad to see they're trimming towards the top. They got so top heavy in the Smisek area...


Jeff had nothing to do with this one. Munoz hired her as a backfill for Compton... Here's Carlos' statement on Julia from August, just a couple months ago: "I have spent the last few months working with Julia as she has been partnering with our revenue and network teams, and her expertise in global consumer travel will be a tremendous addition to drive United's strategic direction," said Munoz.

"Haywood has been at BCG for twelve years, where she has ascended to lead the firm's airline transformation practice globally, with specific expertise in commercial strategy and execution, network planning and revenue growth."

Which begs the question what changed between August and now, it practically only leaves Scott's hiring two weeks after Julia and the subsequent deterioration.

SFOtoORD wrote:
$500 sq ft is about average for Lincoln Park and not bad for a brand new house.

I don't understand all the consultant hate. Many top execs have had consulting backgrounds. Being a consultant isn't inherently good or bad. Just depends on the quality of staff and output you get. Some suck and some are great.


Gotta say that's an ugly property, small lot, terrible view considering it's multi-million. I thought we here in California have it bad when it comes to not getting any bang for our bucks in real estate, but ORD seems not far behind.

As far as the consultant hate, no idea. Maybe this board has a lot of long time airline workers on it, most people don't get to ever move up to the C suite. Perhaps a little too much envy, more precisely Futterneid as we say in German ;-)

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SFOtoORD
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:02 pm

ua900 wrote:
Gotta say that's an ugly property, small lot, terrible view considering it's multi-million. I thought we here in California have it bad when it comes to not getting any bang for our bucks in real estate, but ORD seems not far behind.


Lincoln Park is an urban neighborhood in Chicago so it's actually quite a large lot as mentioned in the article. Not many places in the Wrightwood section of LP where you can 6k sq ft.
 
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:11 pm

This is just crazy. This has delved into realty.net where we now criticize the house choices of airline executives? Please if you can't comment on her attributes then please leave your critique of her home off the table. That is a great neighborhood near downtown. The only other options are high rises and aged brownstones.

Can you guys please comment on things that actually matter in the airline industry? This belly aching over the most ridiculous stuff by the most ill informed is just too much.
 
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:05 pm

 
Varsity1
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:10 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
$500 sq ft is about average for Lincoln Park and not bad for a brand new house.

I don't understand all the consultant hate. Many top execs have had consulting backgrounds. Being a consultant isn't inherently good or bad. Just depends on the quality of staff and output you get. Some suck and some are great.



Consultants are fine for smaller organizations or one off circumstances. Unfortunately they don't bring alot of insight to large highly specialized organizations.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:47 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
$500 sq ft is about average for Lincoln Park and not bad for a brand new house.

I don't understand all the consultant hate. Many top execs have had consulting backgrounds. Being a consultant isn't inherently good or bad. Just depends on the quality of staff and output you get. Some suck and some are great.



Consultants are fine for smaller organizations or one off circumstances. Unfortunately they don't bring alot of insight to large highly specialized organizations.


Says who? Completely made up point.
 
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ua900
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:54 pm

So back on topic, does anyone on this board think that Scott has Julia's expertise when it comes to pitching UA to the next generation of 1Ks/Global Services? I have not seen AA under Scott do anything in that direction, of course I don't know him outside of AA products and the last couple months at UA, but I have not seen anything cool there (e.g. better on-time metrics, improvements to MP program, better customer segmentation) since Polaris rollout was already a given when Scott joined.
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:04 pm

ua900 wrote:
So back on topic, does anyone on this board think that Scott has Julia's expertise when it comes to pitching UA to the next generation of 1Ks/Global Services?


Don't worry - the marketing and sales organization will further evolve at United. Its a work in progress. More heads will change, while the message and technology behind it will evolve.

Kirby forte for nearly three-decade has been revenue, pricing and network which is what he can focus on. It was redundant to have Haywood around with title of being in charge of those areas (with solely theoretical experience about them) when the company lucked out with Kirby's departure from AA.
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SFOtoORD
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:08 pm

Scott Kirby probably doesn't have her same Millenial perspective, but the Skift report talks about Kirby wanting to be very hands on which I suspect is actually what UA needs. The WHQ staff need a real sense of urgency that he'll likely provide.
 
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:37 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
Scott Kirby probably doesn't have her same Millenial perspective, but the Skift report talks about Kirby wanting to be very hands on which I suspect is actually what UA needs. The WHQ staff need a real sense of urgency that he'll likely provide.


He certainly will. Things will get very measurable, and those who do not meet the measurements will be finding a new career soon. Those who do not commit now will be finding a new career right now.

Groups like BCG aspire to approach the type of expertise somebody like Scott would have. They are better than nothing, but not needed now.
 
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:36 am

LAXintl wrote:
ua900 wrote:
So back on topic, does anyone on this board think that Scott has Julia's expertise when it comes to pitching UA to the next generation of 1Ks/Global Services?


Don't worry - the marketing and sales organization will further evolve at United. Its a work in progress. More heads will change, while the message and technology behind it will evolve.

Kirby forte for nearly three-decade has been revenue, pricing and network which is what he can focus on. It was redundant to have Haywood around with title of being in charge of those areas (with solely theoretical experience about them) when the company lucked out with Kirby's departure from AA.


They are already hiring a new Director of Global Advertising so it appears that Julia wasn't the only one leaving.
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:39 am

ua900 wrote:
Jeff had nothing to do with this one. Munoz hired her as a backfill for Compton.

I wasn't necessarily referring to this move in particular, just a number of moves they've made similar to this in recent weeks. I'm not necessarily trying to pull the Smisek card, I just think that the company seemingly became very top-heavy, likely due to the merger and attempting to correct merger related issues. They've got what seems to be a competent group at the top now, and they've made competitive steps in the right direction, so all of that should give them the opportunity to shed redundancies in middle and upper management.
 
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:01 am

ua900 wrote:
So back on topic, does anyone on this board think that Scott has Julia's expertise when it comes to pitching UA to the next generation of 1Ks/Global Services? I have not seen AA under Scott do anything in that direction, of course I don't know him outside of AA products and the last couple months at UA, but I have not seen anything cool there (e.g. better on-time metrics, improvements to MP program, better customer segmentation) since Polaris rollout was already a given when Scott joined.



I am certainly not a millennial but I am married to one! The insights I get from his friends are usually, initially, "YOU FLY UNITED"? They all ask why no Emirates, why no other Star Alliance partners? I am GS and when I take them through the GS checkin at EWR they start to understand.

United has been an unimaginative airline weighed down by labor v mgmt, terror, bankruptcy in the last 20 years. But it is on an uptick and in 2-3 years time will/could be a new airline. If you live in SFO, HOU, CHI, NYC or WAS and travel a lot overseas it is has a formidable presence. Compelling.

Agree UA is just not cool to the hipsters or non-Americans. JetBlue and Virgin America with their slicker PR only preach to the NYC/SFO/LAX crowd who think they know it all, until they have to fly overseas.

The ranks who will replace us loyalists, to United's future - who is speaking to them? Because you know what, UA is a pretty cool airline. Safe. Amazing front line staff when you are upfront. Sure there is room to improve. It's still the airline everyone loves to hate, and that is a good story PR and Product can turn around if competent. Maybe wait a few years until the 747's fly off into the sunset and pmUA/CO 777's and 767's and 787's are reconfigured with Polaris Cabins with Polaris Seats . The potential is there. The reality is that European carriers are cooler and Asian Airlines offer much better soft product. But America is still the most innovative society in the world. United has a huge possibility to turn the industry upside down. Or Delta. Or AA. Because in the end they are now making the money the Europeans, the Middle Easterns, and the Asian carriers could only wish for.

25 years of UA I've seen it all. Change is afoot!

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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:21 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
$500 sq ft is about average for Lincoln Park and not bad for a brand new house.

I don't understand all the consultant hate. Many top execs have had consulting backgrounds. Being a consultant isn't inherently good or bad. Just depends on the quality of staff and output you get. Some suck and some are great.


They have taken over the corporate world. They do things exactly the same each time with no new ideas. They replace workers at companies. They jet set on the company's dime. They are robots that get an MBA degree and will squeeze their own mother out if they are consulting at a company she is running. The only solution they have to struggling companies is to raise the salaries of executives that give them contracts and fire as many regular workers as possible. They helped setup the golden parachutes that gives no executive a real threat of "do well for the company or else"

Consultants have helped make corporate America revise the world to be just a planet for corporations to have their playground and make as much money as possible. All for the next merger, IPO, or quarterly results. Corporations used to get charters to do the public good, now we all only exist to feed their bank accounts and 3 million dollar houses.
 
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:58 pm

She must have really failed big time... or didn't quite know what she was doing :/
 
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:14 pm

What b747400erf said.
 
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:26 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
ua900 wrote:
Jeff had nothing to do with this one. Munoz hired her as a backfill for Compton.

I wasn't necessarily referring to this move in particular, just a number of moves they've made similar to this in recent weeks. I'm not necessarily trying to pull the Smisek card, I just think that the company seemingly became very top-heavy, likely due to the merger and attempting to correct merger related issues. They've got what seems to be a competent group at the top now, and they've made competitive steps in the right direction, so all of that should give them the opportunity to shed redundancies in middle and upper management.


It wasn't just that things were seemingly top heavy, it's that Jeff and his henchmen took a very aggressive stance against all employees, particularly front line staff. Any discretion they may have had in the past to solve problems, as was the L-UA way was taken away and a heavy handed, top down mgt style substituted. Individual employees were told what to do in every instance from above which added to the discontent by both employees and customers. There could not have been a more destructive and out of touch way to run a service business as the "jeff way".
 
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:38 pm

There are two kind of consultants (if you're not British): Management and technical. Whilst the latter certainly has a role in play, say when integrating a new piece of software, the role of the former can best be summoned as thus: Someone who borrows your analogue watch, tells you what the time is in a digital format and charge you an arm and leg for the privilige.

The former CEO of TNT put it very well: To hire a management consultant is the same as saying the people you've hired full-time to do a job ain't good enough. The solution, therefore, is not to hire a consultant, but to hire the right person for the job.
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:23 pm

b747400erf wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

Consultants have helped make corporate America revise the world to be just a planet for corporations to have their playground and make as much money as possible. All for the next merger, IPO, or quarterly results. Corporations used to get charters to do the public good, now we all only exist to feed their bank accounts and 3 million dollar houses.


Many in this forum are airline consultants, or consultants who help with airlift related work. In can be a very specialised field. Yes, there are some bad apples, but in the course of doing what i need to do to survive, I have found many many consultants who are very good at what they do and I for one am grateful to have had their help.
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jetmatt777
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:15 pm

exunited wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
ua900 wrote:
Jeff had nothing to do with this one. Munoz hired her as a backfill for Compton.

I wasn't necessarily referring to this move in particular, just a number of moves they've made similar to this in recent weeks. I'm not necessarily trying to pull the Smisek card, I just think that the company seemingly became very top-heavy, likely due to the merger and attempting to correct merger related issues. They've got what seems to be a competent group at the top now, and they've made competitive steps in the right direction, so all of that should give them the opportunity to shed redundancies in middle and upper management.


It wasn't just that things were seemingly top heavy, it's that Jeff and his henchmen took a very aggressive stance against all employees, particularly front line staff. Any discretion they may have had in the past to solve problems, as was the L-UA way was taken away and a heavy handed, top down mgt style substituted. Individual employees were told what to do in every instance from above which added to the discontent by both employees and customers. There could not have been a more destructive and out of touch way to run a service business as the "jeff way".


If you think the Continental Way stuck around you are sorely mistaken. Both airlines cultures were ruined. I don't recognize anything from Continental's way of doing things. The same as you don't recognize United. It's truly a new company and we are all in t together. Let's drop the us vs them. I'm ready to get over it.
 
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:27 pm

In my view there are essentially four reasons a company hires a consultant:

1: To gain analytical capacity on an ad-hoc basis that they don't need full time. This is common in the airport world. Most airports don't have need of a full-time air-service development person, so they hire consultants to do the work and update things a few times a year. It's cheaper for the airport, the consultant can make more money by serving many clients, win-win for both sides.

2: To supplement analytical capacity during a time of transformation or turbulence. A company may in normal operations need only say 4 analysts of a certain type. But during a large strategy shift they may need more analytical capacity of the same type for a short period of time (ie less than a year or something). This allows the company to maintain the appropriate footprint (4 analysts in this case) while not having to increase long-term head count. In this instance the consultants supplement the analysts work, not replace it.

3: To independently analyze or verify the strategic direction of te company. Often times a board of directors wants a "second opinion", so they hire consultants to double check management's work.

4: Hire consultants because management thinks employees are not capable of delivering the strategy or quality analytics desired. This generally breeds mistrust, infighting and general dissatisfaction among existing employees.

Personally, I see reasons 1 & 2 as perfectly valid, reason 3 as "yeah I guess" and option 4 as unacceptable and a waste of time and money.

Given that UA has been engaged with the big 3 consulting firms virtually without pause (save for about 6 weeks at the beginning of Oscar's tenure) since UA declared bankruptcy in 2002, I'll let you all decide which of those four reasons is he prevailing.
Last edited by Rdh3e on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
strfyr51
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:37 pm

exunited wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
ua900 wrote:
Jeff had nothing to do with this one. Munoz hired her as a backfill for Compton.

I wasn't necessarily referring to this move in particular, just a number of moves they've made similar to this in recent weeks. I'm not necessarily trying to pull the Smisek card, I just think that the company seemingly became very top-heavy, likely due to the merger and attempting to correct merger related issues. They've got what seems to be a competent group at the top now, and they've made competitive steps in the right direction, so all of that should give them the opportunity to shed redundancies in middle and upper management.


It wasn't just that things were seemingly top heavy, it's that Jeff and his henchmen took a very aggressive stance against all employees, particularly front line staff. Any discretion they may have had in the past to solve problems, as was the L-UA way was taken away and a heavy handed, top down mgt style substituted. Individual employees were told what to do in every instance from above which added to the discontent by both employees and customers. There could not have been a more destructive and out of touch way to run a service business as the "jeff way".


Jeff and CO management had a a Top Down mentality and inefficient "by committee" management mantra where if some process didn't or doesn't work?
It's the employees who caused it to Fail rather than it was a Lousy Idea in the first place. AND??
GOD Forbid you question them about their stupidity while not even saying they're stupid, Oscar made the mistake of ASKING. Scott Kirby has caused tremors JUST by asking pointed questions we don't really know this lady in operations and she maybe didn't get to make her "mark" but she's probably better than what we HAD. And? Hopefully, She won't be anywhere as good as what we'll have going forward..
 
TW787
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:53 pm

Anyone who doesn't hate the big consulting firms that work in airlines such as BCG, McKinsey, Bain, or Oliver Wyman had never worked with them.

They steal the ideas of the employees, repackage them as their own, and take millions from the company. Not to mention that most of their so-called airline experts have never once actually worked FOR an airline or never had any real job outside the consulting firm, even if they have more experience than graduating from college two weeks ago, which most don't. Every time I've worked with one of these firms it has either ended with them getting fired, the company taking their advice and it failing, or the company not even taking the recommendation at all

Everyone I talked to in the industry when Julia was hired knew that it wouldn't last long for these reasons. Consultants are all style and no substance and it doesn't take that long for anyone who really understands the airline business (like Scott Kirby) to figure this out
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:42 pm

b747400erf wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
$500 sq ft is about average for Lincoln Park and not bad for a brand new house.

I don't understand all the consultant hate. Many top execs have had consulting backgrounds. Being a consultant isn't inherently good or bad. Just depends on the quality of staff and output you get. Some suck and some are great.


They have taken over the corporate world. They do things exactly the same each time with no new ideas. They replace workers at companies. They jet set on the company's dime. They are robots that get an MBA degree and will squeeze their own mother out if they are consulting at a company she is running. The only solution they have to struggling companies is to raise the salaries of executives that give them contracts and fire as many regular workers as possible. They helped setup the golden parachutes that gives no executive a real threat of "do well for the company or else"

Consultants have helped make corporate America revise the world to be just a planet for corporations to have their playground and make as much money as possible. All for the next merger, IPO, or quarterly results. Corporations used to get charters to do the public good, now we all only exist to feed their bank accounts and 3 million dollar houses.


Any company who have let consultants railroad Theo company has poor executive leadership that should be fired. With good leadership there are still perfectly good reasons to use outside expertise in wide variety of areas. Blaming the consultants is like shooting the messenger.
 
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:52 pm

I am one of the management consultants that have been maligned in this thread. The business is a little more layered than you'd think. Clients usually hire us for one of the following reasons, that all stem from them having a problem in their business:

1.) they don't know how to solve the problem
2.) they know how to solve the problem, but don't have the skills internally to do it
3.) they know how to solve the problem, but it sucks and they don't want to burden their employees with it

Scenario #1 is the type that firms like BCG (Ms. Haywood's) usually go after. Scenario #2 is the one my firm usually tries to solve. I would argue that Scenario #3 is probably the most common, and those projects can be awful - tons of grunt work/long hours, very little recognition, and less career advancement. I've had a few, and they aren't fun at all.

Some of the criticism is true. I've been on engagements where my leaders (the partners and directors in my firm) have been more focused on prolonging the problem as a means of bringing in more revenue and hitting their targets. But I've also been on engagements where we've helped clients completely transform elements of their business and become much more competitive. So it's a mix.

As for Ms. Haywood, not surprised she boomeranged back to her old firm. Her role at United was a pretty impressive feather in their cap ("one of our alumnae is the CCO at one of the world's largest airlines...") and so they likely needed to bring her back into the fold immediately to avoid getting egg on their face.
 
VC10er
Posts: 4274
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:25 pm

As I have been a "consultant" of sorts, but in a very specialized field, I have said and will say it again, it ALWAYS comes down to the actual individuals or teams from XYZ consulting / agency. One cannot paint an entire industry as a waste of time and money. There are some brilliant people with great experience and fresh ideas, it also requires a great client, ones vision and aren't afraid of change.

It is also the reason many mega companies have been turning to smaller shops vs the big names as the bigger the consulting company is, the more mediocre people are filling the ranks.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 1217
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:29 pm

Already seeing some of the pricing/yield stuff coming into play. One of the intl routes I do appears to have reinstituted the 7 day stay rule for fares below a U. However it also makes UA 5x the price of direct competitors so I'm sure we will see them tinkering and changing quite dramatically in the near future.
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:57 am

VC10er wrote:
As I have been a "consultant" of sorts, but in a very specialized field, I have said and will say it again, it ALWAYS comes down to the actual individuals or teams from XYZ consulting / agency. One cannot paint an entire industry as a waste of time and money. There are some brilliant people with great experience and fresh ideas, it also requires a great client, ones vision and aren't afraid of change.

It is also the reason many mega companies have been turning to smaller shops vs the big names as the bigger the consulting company is, the more mediocre people are filling the ranks.

Well said.

I've been consulting in the aviation industry for nearly four decades, initially finance, then processes, marketing and people, and now peer reviews of consulting, finance and audits.

Majority of consultants flit from employer to employer, either in dedicated consulting companies, or with accounting and HR firms.

Don't always blame the consultants. Often it's the Board and/or CEO's terms of reference. They want a scapegoat to blame changes on which are already obvious and overdue.

Having said that, there is certainly a group who lack the courage to defy or challenge customers, who behave as guns for hire. And others which are herd like, for example recommending centralisation in 2012, and then the same consultants (with a different consultancy) recommending to the same customer de-centralisation five years later.

Consultants 'borrow' ideas and promote them as their own. One originality 'test', is to create a fictitious best practice or improvement team within the client's business, often at a secret location (so real employees can't out them), leaving ideas on whiteboards, like improvement brain storming, focus group data and massaged data. In one sting, the consultants recommended changes which resulted in negative staff numbers in some locations, and closure of non-existent offices. Who says the old can't have fun at work?
 
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11725Flyer
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Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:06 am

I'm shocked anyone would be surprised by this move. She was a consultant but had no idea how to actually manage the day-to-day operation. Once Kirby was hired, her days were numbered.
 
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eta unknown
Posts: 2877
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:17 am

11725Flyer wrote:
I'm shocked anyone would be surprised by this move. She was a consultant but had no idea how to actually manage the day-to-day operation. Once Kirby was hired, her days were numbered.

She would have been in trouble after the first meeting with Kirby, then the clock started ticking. As correctly pointed out by many above, consultants don't do anything- they make suggestions for others to implement who are then blamed when things don't go according to the consultant's report.
As Kirby is an industry veteran who knows what he is doing and what can and cannot be achieved, Haywood would have been given some concrete, achievable tasks with deadlines which were outside her competence due to her background. All talk and no substance.

As for Haywood's touchy-feely millennial marketing, I doubt Kirby or the UA Marketing Dept. cares. With consolidation in the US marketplace, there's a good argument to be made that millennials (or anybody else for that matter) don't need individual advertising treatment.
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3172
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:52 am

yellowtail wrote:
b747400erf wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

Consultants have helped make corporate America revise the world to be just a planet for corporations to have their playground and make as much money as possible. All for the next merger, IPO, or quarterly results. Corporations used to get charters to do the public good, now we all only exist to feed their bank accounts and 3 million dollar houses.


Many in this forum are airline consultants, or consultants who help with airlift related work. In can be a very specialised field. Yes, there are some bad apples, but in the course of doing what i need to do to survive, I have found many many consultants who are very good at what they do and I for one am grateful to have had their help.


If you are really good at what you do, then you should be working directly for a company to help them. Not replace workers at a company.
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3172
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:53 am

jsnww81 wrote:
I am one of the management consultants that have been maligned in this thread. The business is a little more layered than you'd think. Clients usually hire us for one of the following reasons, that all stem from them having a problem in their business:

1.) they don't know how to solve the problem
2.) they know how to solve the problem, but don't have the skills internally to do it
3.) they know how to solve the problem, but it sucks and they don't want to burden their employees with it

Scenario #1 is the type that firms like BCG (Ms. Haywood's) usually go after. Scenario #2 is the one my firm usually tries to solve. I would argue that Scenario #3 is probably the most common, and those projects can be awful - tons of grunt work/long hours, very little recognition, and less career advancement. I've had a few, and they aren't fun at all.

Some of the criticism is true. I've been on engagements where my leaders (the partners and directors in my firm) have been more focused on prolonging the problem as a means of bringing in more revenue and hitting their targets. But I've also been on engagements where we've helped clients completely transform elements of their business and become much more competitive. So it's a mix.

As for Ms. Haywood, not surprised she boomeranged back to her old firm. Her role at United was a pretty impressive feather in their cap ("one of our alumnae is the CCO at one of the world's largest airlines...") and so they likely needed to bring her back into the fold immediately to avoid getting egg on their face.


Why did you leave out the real reason consultants are used rather than in house employees? Because the executives have an open door policy with the consulting firms that made them rich and will give them a job once they leave or get fired. It's a revolving door the same way government contractors and public employees are so favourable to each other. It is corruption. If a company cannot make decisions and survive on their own, they need to hire people that can change that or close shop.
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 1217
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:08 am

b747400erf wrote:
jsnww81 wrote:
I am one of the management consultants that have been maligned in this thread. The business is a little more layered than you'd think. Clients usually hire us for one of the following reasons, that all stem from them having a problem in their business:

1.) they don't know how to solve the problem
2.) they know how to solve the problem, but don't have the skills internally to do it
3.) they know how to solve the problem, but it sucks and they don't want to burden their employees with it

Scenario #1 is the type that firms like BCG (Ms. Haywood's) usually go after. Scenario #2 is the one my firm usually tries to solve. I would argue that Scenario #3 is probably the most common, and those projects can be awful - tons of grunt work/long hours, very little recognition, and less career advancement. I've had a few, and they aren't fun at all.

Some of the criticism is true. I've been on engagements where my leaders (the partners and directors in my firm) have been more focused on prolonging the problem as a means of bringing in more revenue and hitting their targets. But I've also been on engagements where we've helped clients completely transform elements of their business and become much more competitive. So it's a mix.

As for Ms. Haywood, not surprised she boomeranged back to her old firm. Her role at United was a pretty impressive feather in their cap ("one of our alumnae is the CCO at one of the world's largest airlines...") and so they likely needed to bring her back into the fold immediately to avoid getting egg on their face.


Why did you leave out the real reason consultants are used rather than in house employees? Because the executives have an open door policy with the consulting firms that made them rich and will give them a job once they leave or get fired. It's a revolving door the same way government contractors and public employees are so favourable to each other. It is corruption. If a company cannot make decisions and survive on their own, they need to hire people that can change that or close shop.


No offense, but I don't think you have any real experience in this area and don't know what you're talking about. This conspiracy theory revolving door stuff is nonsense.
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3172
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:53 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
b747400erf wrote:
jsnww81 wrote:
I am one of the management consultants that have been maligned in this thread. The business is a little more layered than you'd think. Clients usually hire us for one of the following reasons, that all stem from them having a problem in their business:

1.) they don't know how to solve the problem
2.) they know how to solve the problem, but don't have the skills internally to do it
3.) they know how to solve the problem, but it sucks and they don't want to burden their employees with it

Scenario #1 is the type that firms like BCG (Ms. Haywood's) usually go after. Scenario #2 is the one my firm usually tries to solve. I would argue that Scenario #3 is probably the most common, and those projects can be awful - tons of grunt work/long hours, very little recognition, and less career advancement. I've had a few, and they aren't fun at all.

Some of the criticism is true. I've been on engagements where my leaders (the partners and directors in my firm) have been more focused on prolonging the problem as a means of bringing in more revenue and hitting their targets. But I've also been on engagements where we've helped clients completely transform elements of their business and become much more competitive. So it's a mix.

As for Ms. Haywood, not surprised she boomeranged back to her old firm. Her role at United was a pretty impressive feather in their cap ("one of our alumnae is the CCO at one of the world's largest airlines...") and so they likely needed to bring her back into the fold immediately to avoid getting egg on their face.


Why did you leave out the real reason consultants are used rather than in house employees? Because the executives have an open door policy with the consulting firms that made them rich and will give them a job once they leave or get fired. It's a revolving door the same way government contractors and public employees are so favourable to each other. It is corruption. If a company cannot make decisions and survive on their own, they need to hire people that can change that or close shop.


No offense, but I don't think you have any real experience in this area and don't know what you're talking about. This conspiracy theory revolving door stuff is nonsense.


A conspiracy theory is not something that is true but you do not like. Also personally insulting me does not change this fact either. The revolving door to corporations from consultants and the other way around is well documented. I suggest you find new argument tactics that are more adult oriented.
 
N505fx
Posts: 339
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:02 am

Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:04 am

Does anyone know what happened to Sandra Pinneau-Boddison, the former SVP of Customers. Seems like her departure after Kirby's arrival was rather sudden too. Which makes one wonder, if Kirby is letting all of these folks go, who was tolerating them all for this long? And, out of sheer curiosity, is tolerating dead weight or underperforming/non-innovative staff an endemic characteristic carried over from one of the other of the previous companies?
 
alasizon
Posts: 2630
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:17 am

N505fx wrote:
Does anyone know what happened to Sandra Pinneau-Boddison, the former SVP of Customers. Seems like her departure after Kirby's arrival was rather sudden too. Which makes one wonder, if Kirby is letting all of these folks go, who was tolerating them all for this long? And, out of sheer curiosity, is tolerating dead weight or underperforming/non-innovative staff an endemic characteristic carried over from one of the other of the previous companies?


Carrying dead weight/underperforming weight happens a lot more than it should in the airline industry just not typically so far up. I don't think that is so much a pmUA or pmCO item so much as it is just an industry item that festered as the new company struggled to gain a foothold.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:14 pm

"Haywood has been at BCG for twelve years, where she has ascended to lead the firm's airline transformation practice globally, with specific expertise in commercial strategy and execution, network planning and revenue growth."
:rotfl:
What a bunch of BS and of course Kirby saw right through it, because that's exactly what he's successfully been doing for over 30 years. I believe we're seeing United's next CEO in the making. ;)
 
RacheyFlies
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:48 pm

Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:21 pm

So who is the replacement for Julia as a CCO?
The best plane I've flown is an A380. They were the biggest and the best than other plane I've been on. :lol:
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

Re: UA CCO Julia Haywood is out

Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:49 pm

MariaLenin wrote:
So who is the replacement for Julia as a CCO?


“I, along with Oscar and the entire senior leadership team, appreciate the contributions Julia has made during this transformative period for our airline, and we wish her the very best,” Kirby said in a statement. “We will continue to focus on building out the commercial team to achieve our goal of becoming the world’s best airline.”

Something tells me there's been job openings posted in Fort Worth :biggrin:

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