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chiraagnt
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SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:50 pm

Singapore Air plans to retain its New York-via-Frankfurt service even after it resumes direct flights from its home base to the American metropolis next year, Mr Hee said.



Source: http://www.thenational.ae/business/avia ... stop-route


Quite curious about the Singapore-New York market and viability of SQ keeping 2 daily flights in this market. SIN-JFK/EWR will target business travellers who value the non-stop premium service and SIN-FRA-JFK will be targeting the VFR and 5th Freedom Markets I'm assuming but is having two routes to New York viable from Singapore especially with the ME3 and Chinese Airlines competition and sub 1000 SGD fares being offered in this market.

Any other markets will be able to sustain the one stop and non stop flight combination like the New York and SFO markets? SIN-SFO seems to be doing well (both via HKG and direct) but will SIN-LAX remain 2x daily plus the nonstop? Or will SQ redeploy its ICN/NRT stopover flight to another market like ORD/BOS?

Lastly, how is SIN-MAN-IAH doing? Transitioned to the A350 this week so assuming loads aren't the greatest but with the Flybe Codeshares and A350 on it, is the route there for longhaul? SQ seems determined to make Houston work from its Changi Hub. Any possibility that the A359 ULR is used for SIN-IAH non stops since oil prices are on an upward trajectory?

Singapore-Houston's 8,629nm is just under the A350-900ULR's stated range of 8,700nm – this is probably not a coincidence. With seven aircraft, SIA would be able to launch a daily service (or about) to one additional point but could not manage two additional points.


Source: https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... ive-248462
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:59 pm

They would need an extra margin to fly SIN-IAH non stop. I don't think it would be commercially desirable, even if it were technically possible.

SIN-MAN is doing well, MAN-IAH has not been doing well but I understand it is about where it was expected to be at this stage. Unless something strange happens, I think SQ are in this for the long haul and the A350 makes a daily service more viable in the short to mid term.

I am pretty sure the outbound SIN-FRA sector pretty much duplicates LH's SIN-FRA route, which is also on an A380. There is the slightly unusual situation where they follow one another. I suspect this signifies a strong demand, which can be supported.
 
dmstorm22
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:13 pm

Not a huge surprise given the co-existed fine for a number of years before SQ21/22 was cancelled the first time around.

As you laid out, they target different markets. Also, both times I've gone SIN-FRA-JFK, there was a lot of people who seemed to be taking one of the legs and not both. Admittedly, this is just two data points, but I feel like there is decent demand for each of the legs in JFK-FRA-SIN (maybe more-so on the SIN-FRA side?)
 
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:22 pm

I think the flying to JFK via FRA is viable along with direct flights between SIN and EWR.

SFO will sustain a flight to SIN via HKG, along with the non-stop.

I honestly think that SQ will fly to direct to LAX from SIN along with a flight coming from an Asian stop, like from NRT. I feel like SIN-ICN-LAX will be ended and no more fifth freedom routes will be flown from ICN anymore.

What makes SQ fly to Houston? Otherwise, I think Houston will be a good market for SQ for the long term. However, I heard that as a result of ending the flights between MUC and MAN made MUC less profitable. I also heard that DUS is not doing well for SQ, is that true? SIN-MAN-IAH seems like it is doing fine, but if SQ flew non-stop between SIN and IAH, would MAN be able to handle direct flights to SIN without any fifth freedom flights to IAH?
 
infinit
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:10 am

This news does not surprise me. There are a number of factors here.
- Like you pointed out, they cater to different segments for those coming from New York. The non-stop will be expensive but command a premium (most likely in a J and PY only config) whereas the one-stop will allow SQ to capture the lower yielding part of the market which is evidently still big and profitable enough

- I heard mixed reports on the loads of FRA-JFK but SQ has a JV with Lufthansa now. If not for them the pre-existing codeshare, the route will probably benefit from closer cooperation wih LH

- These flights do not only serve Singapore. In every other discussion about SQ or SIN, some people on this site will go pull out a map to show how SIN isn't an optimal hub for Asia from the West based on distance.
But the fact of the matter is SIN has been one of the largest international connection hubs the last two decades and SQ's business model has been based on this. Even with the ME taking a lot of traffic away, the passenger and freight traffic through SIN has been growing.
I have taken SQ to SFO via HKG twice and on both times , most of the plane was filled with passengers from South Asia which I noticed from the point of origin indicated on their luggage tags. In addition to quite a few from Southeast Asia.
 
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:15 am

Right now, SQ flies to San Francisco both via Hong Kong and as a nonstop service (competing with UA on the nonstop service; there is no codeshare on the nonstop). I am not surprised that they would keep the FRA one-stop service...probably desired by Lufthansa as well as they can put early passengers on that flight.
 
westgate
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:53 am

Considering that the non-stops to EWR and LAX were already cancelled once, and the one-stops have had continuous uninterrupted service in the mean time, why cancel them ? If anything gets cancelled in the future it will likely be the non-stops again, unless the A350's really do make the routes a lot more economical to operate .

It will be interesting to see what happens with these and the new QF non-stop from PER to LHR, will such ridiculously long flight times ultimately drive passengers towards the one-stop options instead ? I honestly have no idea what the loads/yields were like on the A340-500 flights, I know it was a fairly low-density aircraft with just J and premium economy, but why were those flights cancelled ? Not enough demand or poor economics as a result of the aircraft type ? They did last almost 10 years nonetheless . . .
 
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:38 am

chiraagnt wrote:
Lastly, how is SIN-MAN-IAH doing?


It's only one piece of data, but except for the occasional fare sale miracle, Y fares on IAH-MAN are the cheapest flights from Texas to Europe by hundreds of dollars. Typical fares are $600-750. I'm hoping this flight is still around for my honeymoon next year...

(edited for wording)
 
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:43 am

westgate wrote:
Considering that the non-stops to EWR and LAX were already cancelled once, and the one-stops have had continuous uninterrupted service in the mean time, why cancel them ? If anything gets cancelled in the future it will likely be the non-stops again, unless the A350's really do make the routes a lot more economical to operate .

It will be interesting to see what happens with these and the new QF non-stop from PER to LHR, will such ridiculously long flight times ultimately drive passengers towards the one-stop options instead ? I honestly have no idea what the loads/yields were like on the A340-500 flights, I know it was a fairly low-density aircraft with just J and premium economy, but why were those flights cancelled ? Not enough demand or poor economics as a result of the aircraft type ? They did last almost 10 years nonetheless . . .


The previous nonstops were cancelled due to the A345s poor economics however the load factors weren't bad after the switched to the all J class config. The A350s are just about the most efficient thing in the sky other than birds at this point, so if they can't make it work with those than I'd say that experiment is over.
 
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:05 am

RL777 wrote:
The previous nonstops were cancelled due to the A345s poor economics however the load factors weren't bad after the switched to the all J class config. The A350s are just about the most efficient thing in the sky other than birds at this point, so if they can't make it work with those than I'd say that experiment is over.


I remember the switch to all J now. What will the new config on the A359's be, all J as well or with some Y+ or even just plain Y in the mix ???
 
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:17 am

westgate wrote:
RL777 wrote:
The previous nonstops were cancelled due to the A345s poor economics however the load factors weren't bad after the switched to the all J class config. The A350s are just about the most efficient thing in the sky other than birds at this point, so if they can't make it work with those than I'd say that experiment is over.


I remember the switch to all J now. What will the new config on the A359's be, all J as well or with some Y+ or even just plain Y in the mix ???


I don't think its been revealed yet however I'd imagine it'll be all J class given that PEY didn't do so hot last time around.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:33 am

I'd expect SQ to go nonstop on SIN-ORD before nonstop to IAH. There is a much more sizeable high yielding demand from ORD to SIN than from IAH. Does anyone know why SQ chose to move the IAH stop to MaN?
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Casablanca
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:52 am

My current carrier also flies the 350....I will admit I do not fly it, but it doesn't appear to be the most "efficient thing in the sky", at least the early models. I would be surprised if they can actually do this route, as the 350-800 seems to struggle on 12-13 hour flights, often payload restricted. I know the later airplanes will be 4-5 tons lighter, not sure if that is enough to make such a difference?
 
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:02 am

RL777 wrote:
westgate wrote:
RL777 wrote:
The previous nonstops were cancelled due to the A345s poor economics however the load factors weren't bad after the switched to the all J class config. The A350s are just about the most efficient thing in the sky other than birds at this point, so if they can't make it work with those than I'd say that experiment is over.


I remember the switch to all J now. What will the new config on the A359's be, all J as well or with some Y+ or even just plain Y in the mix ???


I don't think its been revealed yet however I'd imagine it'll be all J class given that PEY didn't do so hot last time around.


According to SQ the A350ULR will be configured into 2 classes

https://www.ausbt.com.au/singapore-airl ... us-a350ulr
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LAX772LR
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:42 am

Not sure what the big revelation is. The 1stops existed throughout the duration of the previous A345 nonstops, and apparently did just fine.... the 1stops being taken away would actually be news, now the inverse.


westgate wrote:
I remember the switch to all J now. What will the new config on the A359's be, all J as well or with some Y+ or even just plain Y in the mix ???

SQ has confirmed that they'll have multiple classes, but haven't revealed which classes and what configuration they'll use. It'll have to be lite, as the A359ULR can't op such routes with typical cabin density.

The number of 170 seats is often tossed around among AvGeeks, but IINM it's just speculation.


TWA772LR wrote:
I'd expect SQ to go nonstop on SIN-ORD before nonstop to IAH.

Based on what? They couldn't even make ORD work 1stop. At least IAH justifies service at all.


Casablanca wrote:
I would be surprised if they can actually do this route, as the 350-800 seems to struggle on 12-13 hour flights, often payload restricted. I know the later airplanes will be 4-5 tons lighter, not sure if that is enough to make such a difference?

SQ will utilize the A359ULR, which has much more fuel capacity and a higher MTOW than any A359 model currently flying.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Cointrin330
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:45 am

When SQ ran the EWR-SIN flights on the A340-500, they maintained JFK-FRA-SIN throughout.
 
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:42 am

LAX772LR wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
I'd expect SQ to go nonstop on SIN-ORD before nonstop to IAH.

Based on what? They couldn't even make ORD work 1stop. At least IAH justifies service at all.

IIRC, they served ORD via AMS. Had they served it from a Star hub, or a city with larger O&D with ORD in general, it could've lasted.

UA actually operates ORD-HKG-SIN with the same flight number, that gives it some merit that there is O&D for SQ to tap into. Also, if the SQ/UA relationship really is thawing, it'd be easier to make connections in ORD than IAH because of the flight time and distance, as well as ORDs larger domestic network. SFO, ORD and EWR would be the perfect destinations to hit O&D as well as UAs mpressive US coverage from those hubs.

IAH I can see if the demand to get to South America from Singapore is large enough, but I don't know how to get information like that. As much as I am an IAH fanboy, I do think n/s to ORD would be better for SQ, at least at first.
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LAX772LR
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:50 am

TWA772LR wrote:
IIRC, they served ORD via AMS. Had they served it from a Star hub, or a city with larger O&D with ORD in general, it could've lasted.

Hmm, so SQ couldn't have figured that out themselves (despite having all the numbers on: their aircraft, the O&D between the points of sale, partners' willingness to contribute, corporate contracts/retention, opportunity cost, etc).... but you had the answer to making the station viable-- without any of the above?

Sounds legit. :lol:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:01 am

LAX772LR wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
IIRC, they served ORD via AMS. Had they served it from a Star hub, or a city with larger O&D with ORD in general, it could've lasted.

Hmm, so SQ couldn't have figured that out themselves (despite having all the numbers on: their aircraft, the O&D between the points of sale, partners' willingness to contribute, corporate contracts/retention, opportunity cost, etc).... but you had the answer to making the station viable-- without any of the above?

Sounds legit. :lol:

Thanks for the professional reply.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:13 am

TWA772LR wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
IIRC, they served ORD via AMS. Had they served it from a Star hub, or a city with larger O&D with ORD in general, it could've lasted.

Hmm, so SQ couldn't have figured that out themselves (despite having all the numbers on: their aircraft, the O&D between the points of sale, partners' willingness to contribute, corporate contracts/retention, opportunity cost, etc).... but you had the answer to making the station viable-- without any of the above?

Sounds legit. :lol:

Thanks for the professional reply.

Oh, a thousand pardons.

Back to FantasyLand, where amateurs who have access to no specific information, somehow understand route performance better than corporate planners who do.

Silly me for suggesting otherwise. :roll:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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wolfsburg
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:11 pm

NichCage wrote:
I think the flying to JFK via FRA is viable along with direct flights between SIN and EWR.

SFO will sustain a flight to SIN via HKG, along with the non-stop.

I honestly think that SQ will fly to direct to LAX from SIN along with a flight coming from an Asian stop, like from NRT. I feel like SIN-ICN-LAX will be ended and no more fifth freedom routes will be flown from ICN anymore.

What makes SQ fly to Houston? Otherwise, I think Houston will be a good market for SQ for the long term. However, I heard that as a result of ending the flights between MUC and MAN made MUC less profitable. I also heard that DUS is not doing well for SQ, is that true? SIN-MAN-IAH seems like it is doing fine, but if SQ flew non-stop between SIN and IAH, would MAN be able to handle direct flights to SIN without any fifth freedom flights to IAH?

SQ is always doing promotion on the Dusseldorf flight so I think it is not doing very well. The flexi fare is too high and under such market condition more people are going for one stop cheaper product...
 
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:20 pm

Casablanca wrote:
My current carrier also flies the 350....I will admit I do not fly it, but it doesn't appear to be the most "efficient thing in the sky", at least the early models. I would be surprised if they can actually do this route, as the 350-800 seems to struggle on 12-13 hour flights, often payload restricted. I know the later airplanes will be 4-5 tons lighter, not sure if that is enough to make such a difference?

A350-900 is flying daily between SIN and SFO now....
 
wjcandee
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:26 pm

This was the funniest thing in the article:

"Non-stop operations ended in 2013 after the ageing, four-engine Airbus A340-500 jets deployed were rendered uneconomic by an increase in fuel costs."

Those incredibly-cool, 100-seat A340s, were exactly 9 years old at the time. "Ageing." Gotta love that excuse.
 
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:49 pm

The EWR side of the EWR-SIN route has very good connections from other flights in the Northeast USA vs. JFK. I am glad to see EWR take back the historical title of longest commercial scheduled flight.
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:58 pm

what is the rationale for SQ doing JFk FRA instead of EWR where they could get Star feed?
 
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:07 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Hmm, so SQ couldn't have figured that out themselves (despite having all the numbers on: their aircraft, the O&D between the points of sale, partners' willingness to contribute, corporate contracts/retention, opportunity cost, etc).... but you had the answer to making the station viable-- without any of the above?

Sounds legit. :lol:

Thanks for the professional reply.

Oh, a thousand pardons.

Back to FantasyLand, where amateurs who have access to no specific information, somehow understand route performance better than corporate planners who do.

Silly me for suggesting otherwise. :roll:


SQ started SIN-AMS-ORD-AMS-SIN on August 2, 2001. A month later the entire airline industry was in total chaos. It was an ill-timed launch. It is not to say that it would still be going, but the fact that 9/11 happened, ultimately destroyed this route before it ever had an opportunity to take off.
 
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:14 pm

What fifth freedoms does SQ hold? Can they do anything SIN-Europe-Americas? I know they are limited on SIN-East Asia-Americas and the Aussies kept them off of anything Oceania-Americas.
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:45 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
SQ started SIN-AMS-ORD-AMS-SIN on August 2, 2001. A month later the entire airline industry was in total chaos. It was an ill-timed launch. It is not to say that it would still be going, but the fact that 9/11 happened, ultimately destroyed this route before it ever had an opportunity to take off.

True, but the fact that they've never found it worthwhile to attempt again, 16yrs and two economic swings later, speaks even louder.


adamh8297 wrote:
What fifth freedoms does SQ hold? Can they do anything SIN-Europe-Americas? I know they are limited on SIN-East Asia-Americas and the Aussies kept them off of anything Oceania-Americas.

Singapore and the USA have open skies, so SQ can fly to any destination in the USA either 1) nonstop or 2) via any 3rd country that permits it.

The only way to know the latter, however, is to look up the bilateral agreements that SQ has with individual countries or united territories.

Personally not familiar with their bilaterals are with Canada and the rest of the Americas. Do hope one day to see them launch nonstop SIN-GRU (just slightly longer than SIN-NYC), but due to the Brazilian economy, that's probably a longggg way off.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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intotheair
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:07 pm

Does anyone know the likelihood of the nonstop returning still at EWR and not JFK?

EWR-SIN always seemed a little strange to me since SQ was already at JFK and didn't really have any partners at EWR, although with SQ trying to get a little closer with UA, I would imagine EWR has a stronger case now.
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cheeken
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:00 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
IAH I can see if the demand to get to South America from Singapore is large enough, but I don't know how to get information like that. As much as I am an IAH fanboy, I do think n/s to ORD would be better for SQ, at least at first.


They pulled out of South America, I take that as a sign of weak demand.....
 
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:00 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
What fifth freedoms does SQ hold? Can they do anything SIN-Europe-Americas? [...]


Be assured that a vast number of airlines are free to operate from points in Asia via points in Europe to points in North America and vice versa with complete 5th freedom rights.

However, most of them who tried just utterly failed economically and Singapore Airlines is just the exception to the rule. As mentioned in an earlier post above, there are almost no passengers using both legs. The schedule is near to ideal on both legs. SQ has an excellent reputation and they can operate the FRA-JFK-FRA legs without codesharing with UA/LH! (They did for a short time, but later it had been prohibited by one of the competition authorities. If memory serves me correctly, it was the EU one, but it could also have been the US or the FRG authority).
 
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:19 am

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
what is the rationale for SQ doing JFK FRA instead of EWR where they could get Star feed?


JFK is a huge O&D market and a significant percentage of the premium market prefers JFK to EWR. I doubt SQ has much interest in carrying lower-yield connecting traffic via EWR. And until fairly recently SQ didn't even codeshare with UA. UA and SQ had a very poor working relationship for years.
 
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:55 am

cheeken wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
IAH I can see if the demand to get to South America from Singapore is large enough, but I don't know how to get information like that. As much as I am an IAH fanboy, I do think n/s to ORD would be better for SQ, at least at first.


They pulled out of South America, I take that as a sign of weak demand.....

Codesharing to South America on United would be very low risk versus habing a tag-on flight. Maybe that's part of LAX772LRs point of IAH still having service over ORD on SQ, the Latin connections.
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:03 am

SQ has operated JFK-FRA-SIN since the early 1990's. It was a 747-400 and then up gauged to the A380.
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:43 am

Viscount724 wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
what is the rationale for SQ doing JFK FRA instead of EWR where they could get Star feed?


JFK is a huge O&D market and a significant percentage of the premium market prefers JFK to EWR. I doubt SQ has much interest in carrying lower-yield connecting traffic via EWR. And until fairly recently SQ didn't even codeshare with UA. UA and SQ had a very poor working relationship for years.


ok why would they do the SIN non-stop to EWR then?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:58 am

Viscount724 wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
what is the rationale for SQ doing JFK FRA instead of EWR where they could get Star feed?

JFK is a huge O&D market and a significant percentage of the premium market prefers JFK to EWR. I doubt SQ has much interest in carrying lower-yield connecting traffic via EWR. And until fairly recently SQ didn't even codeshare with UA. UA and SQ had a very poor working relationship for years.

And yet, for 9yrs, they chose EWR over JFK for the nonstop; despite the ability to switch it at any time.

So there's that...
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Max Q
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:04 am

Almost but not quite a RTW operation then with these flights, just a few miles between EWR and JFK !
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
usflyer123
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:30 am

Viscount724 wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
what is the rationale for SQ doing JFK FRA instead of EWR where they could get Star feed?


JFK is a huge O&D market and a significant percentage of the premium market prefers JFK to EWR. I doubt SQ has much interest in carrying lower-yield connecting traffic via EWR. And until fairly recently SQ didn't even codeshare with UA. UA and SQ had a very poor working relationship for years.


"a significant percentage of the premium market prefers JFK to EWR", based on what? EWR Is closer to Manhattan, where most of the premium pax go. I think the reason they chose to fly to JFK is that they have a codeshare agreement with B6.
for most people the sky is the limit. for those who love aviation, the sky is home...
 
IAHWorldflyer
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:27 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
I'd expect SQ to go nonstop on SIN-ORD before nonstop to IAH. There is a much more sizeable high yielding demand from ORD to SIN than from IAH. Does anyone know why SQ chose to move the IAH stop to MaN?



The decline in oil prices, along with sanctions on Russia due to their Ukraine aggression led to a lack of demand for IAH-DME service. I think in choosing MAN as the stop, they were also trying to prop up SIN-MAN passenger numbers. I don't see a huge amount of local business demand for IAH-MAN, but I suspect SQ's route planners saw an opportunity there, versus a transit in another European station.

As to IAH having service on SQ and ORD lacking it, due to oil and shipping, there are strong ties between Houston and Singapore. I would venture to say that the business demand to SIN out of Houston is probably higher than any other SE Asian destination, including HKG.
 
airbazar
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:13 pm

RL777 wrote:
I don't think its been revealed yet however I'd imagine it'll be all J class given that PEY didn't do so hot last time around.

I fully expect these to be 3-class (J/Y+/Y). The current A359 is doing on occasion nearly 18 hour segments:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SIA3 ... /KSFO/WSSS
That is what NYC/LAX will be. I suspect that the ULR in a 3-class configuration will be able to fly these routes without blocked seats for much of the year and that SQ will just block seats on the worst days, as it does now on SFO-SIN.

LAX772LR wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
IIRC, they served ORD via AMS. Had they served it from a Star hub, or a city with larger O&D with ORD in general, it could've lasted.

Hmm, so SQ couldn't have figured that out themselves (despite having all the numbers on: their aircraft, the O&D between the points of sale, partners' willingness to contribute, corporate contracts/retention, opportunity cost, etc).... but you had the answer to making the station viable-- without any of the above?

Sounds legit. :lol:

There were two very important factors contributing to the failure of this route: 1) 9/11; and 2) The UA/SQ feud.
The first explains why it was terminated so quickly and the second explains why they never returned. Unlike LAX/SFO/NYC, SQ does not need UA feed and support but ORD is a small market (for SQ) and they would need cooperation with UA to make it viable. A lot of things have changed but mainly UA and SQ have warmer relations now.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:47 pm

IAHWorldflyer wrote:

The decline in oil prices, along with sanctions on Russia due to their Ukraine aggression led to a lack of demand for IAH-DME service. I think in choosing MAN as the stop, they were also trying to prop up SIN-MAN passenger numbers. I don't see a huge amount of local business demand for IAH-MAN, but I suspect SQ's route planners saw an opportunity there, versus a transit in another European station.


I think this is pretty much on the money.

SQ wanted to reintroduce a MAN-SIN nonstop service (previously went via MUC) and decided a US tag was one way to derisk it.

At the same time, the IAH-DME sector struggled due to the reasons noted above. There might be an element of MAN-IAH being chosen by default because of the timing, but it has been sold on the basis of oil, pharma and shipping connections. It may work, but there is a lot of work to do in order to get this sector to where they want it to be.

If MAN-IAH fails, I'm sure SQ will try routing through another European hub.

The handy thing about MAN moving forward is USPC, which will enable passengers to arrive at IAH as "domestic". This should make transfers at IAH much easier and hopefully deliver more transfer traffic via MAN than would otherwise be the case and perhaps attract more TATL flying from MAN (SQ or otherwise).
 
SIA77W
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:46 pm

There has been multiple mentions of previously frost relationship between UA and SQ?

What is the reason or divisive factor contributing to the tensions between UA and SQ? Especially seeing as they are both part of Star Alliance.

And what is contributing to them thawing these relations, pressure from ME3?
 
avek00
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:27 pm

SIA77W wrote:
There has been multiple mentions of previously frost relationship between UA and SQ?

What is the reason or divisive factor contributing to the tensions between UA and SQ? Especially seeing as they are both part of Star Alliance.

And what is contributing to them thawing these relations, pressure from ME3?


There's really no animosity between United Airlines and Singapore Airlines, despite any a.net portrayals to the contrary. The two carriers cooperate as members of Star Alliance, and jointly led efforts within the Alliance to improve key business processes on interline journeys.

The carriers presently have varying commercial positions and interests that tend to preclude expansive codesharing or a joint venture arrangement. It's not bad blood, just business.
Live life to the fullest.
 
sgbroimp
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:11 pm

Just to come back to the OP's topic, SQ is probably doing ok on the NY-FRA leg as they are running a 380 year round. LH backs off in the fall from its 380 on the afternoon flight to a 747-8. In some winter months, it even drops the evening flight (LH 405) altogether. That helps SQ a lot and gives SQ a better position for the business traveler who wants to depart after work. Having said that, I flew SQ 26 (FRA-JFK) yesterday morning on a 1/2 full 380, so Jan-Feb is tough for everybody.
 
airDFW
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:31 pm

CalTex wrote:
chiraagnt wrote:
Lastly, how is SIN-MAN-IAH doing?


It's only one piece of data, but except for the occasional fare sale miracle, Y fares on IAH-MAN are the cheapest flights from Texas to Europe by hundreds of dollars. Typical fares are $600-750. I'm hoping this flight is still around for my honeymoon next year...

(edited for wording)


What is there around MAN for a tourist?
 
Curiousflyer
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:52 am

airDFW wrote:

What is there around MAN for a tourist?


There is a pretty active nightlife and plenty of pleasant pills and powders can be popped and smelled. During the day, the fun options include going to the country and grabbing sheep.

http://www.visitmanchester.com
 
3AWM
Posts: 232
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:01 am

[/quote]

What is there around MAN for a tourist?[/quote]

It's only an hour and a half from Birmingham by train.

http://visitbirmingham.com/
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 1157
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:01 am

The hinterland around MAN is very good if you like your history, the outdoor lifestyle and "olde England".

For example:

1 - the Lake District, Yorkshire Dales, Snowdonia and Peak District national parks.

2 - historical houses such as Chatsworth, fountains abbey (pretty much anywhere that you see in a period drama).

3 - more modern culture - the Beatles started off in Liverpool, obviously the Football teams are popular.

4 - history. The region was the birthplace of the (first?) industrial revolution and the subject matter the TV show Game of thrones is based on (war of the roses) also took place here.

5 - historical town and vibrant cities. Places like Chester and York are full of history, spa towns like Harrogate and vibrant and fun cities like Manchester, Liverpool and Leeds. They are not London, but few places are.

You can also get to Scotland, Wales,
Northern Ireland and other parts of the UK easily from MAN (it is fairly central in the UK).

It's not what I'd choose for a honeymoon, but the region does offer a lot of interesting things to do for a tourist. I'm sure there are other things but that's what springs to mind.
 
cheeken
Posts: 165
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Re: SQ plans to retain SIN-FRA-JFK after resuming SIN-JFK/EWR

Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:55 pm

Max Q wrote:
Almost but not quite a RTW operation then with these flights, just a few miles between EWR and JFK !


actually, i'm quite sure based on winds, sometimes it is a RTW operation (only eastbound, i think!) so SIN-EWR goes over the pacific and EWR-SIN goes over atlantic on the same day

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