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afcjets
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:56 am

I wonder if they will have the screens in the aisle that come from the ceiling, or will FAs go back to doing safety demos.
 
wjcandee
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:49 am

jumbojet wrote:
I call BS on 90% of people bring a device on board capable of streaming video/audio content.


The PR idiots at AA are including your phone in that number. Phone. Great screen to watch movies on. (rolleyes)

Nobody has mentioned that JetBlue (and Virgin America) was basically founded on the idea that every seat should have IFE, in their case TV.

This "electronic babysitter" of children of all ages (including a lot of 40 year olds I know) has made the lives of B6 employees much easier than I'm sure they realize, as so many pax just lock their eyes on the screen for much of the flight. The IFE pacifies children that otherwise would busy themselves annoying me, and adults who otherwise would be looking for their 5th cocktail, and thereafter annoying me.

I know so many parents who will ONLY fly B6 with their children, because they know for sure that their monsters will behave like (distracted) little ladies and gentlemen.

And I agree that it is a PITA to pull out my laptop, and the phone is a poor IFE provider, and I don't want to waste its battery in any event.

Classic PR effort to pretend that something bad is in fact something good. Welcome to an inconsistent fleet of otherwise-identical aircraft.

DL and B6 and Virgin are better than anyone else at providing a truly-consistent product, and they get my business because of it.
 
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Qatara340
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:02 am

Personally, I believe IFE in the form of PTV's are important when flying. It gives me the comfort or psycological comfort to be able to entertain myself for the duration of the flight in the touch of a button--and to know where I am (in the seat map). To me, TV screens are essential. Its like sitting in an office without a computer...

Currently, Wifi inflight is notoriously slow--perhaps AA's planes will offer faster IFE, but I doubt that anything will be able to be as fast as to stream movies without hiccups.

IFE is also a way of marketing planes.--make it more appealing to customers.
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michman
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:13 am

enilria wrote:
Is long as they charge for WIFI and not for IFE it's crappier.


There's no charge for the WIFI when using it to stream the onboard entertainment.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:27 pm

Two things concern me:
1. If WiFi fails and it not properly restored, then no IFE for you. On a short flight, that doesn't matter, but on a transcon, I like to have something to do and it's been a few times when WiFi simply stops. Restarting it works most of them time, but not all the time.
2. Seat power ports? Again, on a short flight it's not a big deal, but on longer flights, depending on how new your device is, it may last a long time or it may be drained faster than anticipated. An alternative to this would be to provide as many power ports in the gate area so that devices are charged up and ready to go.
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commavia
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:30 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
If WiFi fails and it not properly restored, then no IFE for you. On a short flight, that doesn't matter, but on a transcon, I like to have something to do and it's been a few times when WiFi simply stops. Restarting it works most of them time, but not all the time.


I don't really see that as much different from any IFE solution, though. I've also been on plenty of flights over the years where the seatback AVOD PTVs have failed and had to be restarted, sometimes to varying degrees of success.

einsteinboricua wrote:
Seat power ports? Again, on a short flight it's not a big deal, but on longer flights, depending on how new your device is, it may last a long time or it may be drained faster than anticipated. An alternative to this would be to provide as many power ports in the gate area so that devices are charged up and ready to go.


As many have said - no question that powerports will be a critical component to an IFE solution like this going forward. Thankfully, AA is definitely moving in that direction with all of its new aircraft - all are getting USB and AC powerports at every seat.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:57 pm

Great Idea. Wireless streaming with FREE content is the way to go. All you need is a seat back tablet holder

Media server will be on-board and it won't be slow like internet. In fact most latest seat back monitors are wireless.
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spacecookie
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:20 pm

Streaming in airplanes is quite slow so it will be frustration
Not everyone has an ipad (i do)
Than you have to bring it charged on the plane because the normal USB ports wont charge it

More frustration guaranteed.
*i dont watch movies, i watch flight info like all a-netters no?
 
KLDC10
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:20 pm

Well, that stinks. I remember a few years ago that the introduction of narrowbody IFE was a key part of AA's rebranding effort. It is disappointing to see this backwards step - not everyone brings their own device onboard with them. I don't fly AA domestically very much, but I have even less reason to do so now.
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DL747400
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:22 pm

777PHX wrote:
DL747400 wrote:
AA takes a step backwards, while DL continues moving steps forward. This will be yet another opportunity for DL to further differentiate themselves in a positive way in the eyes of frequent flyers.


I knew it wouldn't be long before the DL cheerleaders descended on this thread.

Plus, I'm pretty sure AA stockholders would vehemently disagree with you.


Here is a slide from DL's December, 2016 Investor Day presentation. Clearly, product investments are a cornerstone of DL's plan to continue driving the revenue premium they enjoy versus the rest of the industry:

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jumbojet
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:22 pm

Seriously, where in the heck does AA come up with this 90% figure from? It is nowhere even close to that. Right off the bat, AA loses their credibility by making such obvious false statements.
 
commavia
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:26 pm

DL747400 wrote:
Clearly, product investments are a cornerstone of DL's plan to continue driving the revenue premium they enjoy versus the rest of the industry:


It is indeed clear - that is part of Delta's plan to continue driving a revenue premium. What I'm saying is that I'll be curious to see if that plan actually works out in practice.

Given where Delta has been relative to its two network carrier competitors, I think it's difficult at this point to use the recent past to forecast the recent future and separate out whether or not at least some portion of Delta's yield advantage is driven by PTVs, or operational reliability, and/or just the fact that it's competitors are still catching up to its merger integration.

So like with so many other things, I'll just say that it will be interesting to look back in five years from now and see where all three - AA, Delta and United - are. And, as part of that, I will be interested to see if Delta - then - still has a material, meaningful and sustainable yield advantage, and for that matter profit margin advantage (since, of course, it's possible to offset lower yields with lower costs).
 
FlyUSAir
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:39 pm

I agree with a previous poster when the economy goes south again, Delta will be completely fine while AA and possibly UA will struggle. It's actually kind of sad considering AA used to set examples, but now that Discount Dougie is in charge that is gone.
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airbazar
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:54 pm

I don't see BYOD as a replacement to IFE but rather a complement, and I would expect both offerings from a full service airline. I personally can't understand how people manage to watch video on their phones but then again there are a lot of things about today's generation that I don't understand :)
 
815Oceanic
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:07 pm

jumbojet wrote:
Seriously, where in the heck does AA come up with this 90% figure from? It is nowhere even close to that. Right off the bat, AA loses their credibility by making such obvious false statements.

What is the actual number (outside of just a best guess)? I would expect it is actually higher since most people have smartphones. Hell, even my 80 year old grandparents have a tablet!
 
superjeff
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:13 pm

The AA international 757's are on their way out. But on a 6 hour nonstop it is doable. Economy on a 787-9 is every bit as bad, or worse, than anything else out there, and on a DUB-LHR-PHL would add at least 2-3 hours to make the connection.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:25 pm

commavia wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
Seat power ports? Again, on a short flight it's not a big deal, but on longer flights, depending on how new your device is, it may last a long time or it may be drained faster than anticipated. An alternative to this would be to provide as many power ports in the gate area so that devices are charged up and ready to go.


As many have said - no question that powerports will be a critical component to an IFE solution like this going forward. Thankfully, AA is definitely moving in that direction with all of its new aircraft - all are getting USB and AC powerports at every seat.


AA is going to need to improve the reliability/maintenance of the powerports if this is going to work. Shedding weight is good, but if they are serious about a strong streaming solution I'm not sure that they will be shedding maintenance costs; powerports do not seem to be a maintenance priority at present, and most of AA's aircraft with power are relatively new.
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Keith2004
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:30 pm

Here is another opportunity for Delta to really differentiate and single themselves out as a more premium legacy carrier.

Even though Delta was the first to do things like monetize frequent flyer program and introduce basic economy, UA and AA have given opportunities to appear as more premium:
1. Free seat back IFE AND Streaming to personal device
2. Free Liquor in long haul Economy
3. Basic economy still includes FREE carry on in Overhead
4. All Aisle access in J on all Wide body long haul (for now)
5. If they added free Wi-Fi to this, even just for premium cabins they would run away with it

If marketed correctly Delta could present themselves as "more premium" than the other 2 in US3
"Adding amenities when competitors are subtracting"

And I'm not a DL Fan boy, but DL just seems to objectively offer a better experience in J, C and Y than UA and AA
 
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Keith2004
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:40 pm

Also even if they have power outlets at every seat, using your own device it not always ideal, especially if it is only a phone.
I rather use a seatback PTV than hold my phone for 2 hours to watch a movie.

Anything describing this as anything other than a downgrade is SPIN
 
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Keith2004
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:51 pm

airbazar wrote:
I don't see BYOD as a replacement to IFE but rather a complement, and I would expect both offerings from a full service airline. I personally can't understand how people manage to watch video on their phones but then again there are a lot of things about today's generation that I don't understand :)



:checkmark:

So many people here are quick to say, I don't use seatback, I prefer my own device.....But when your competitors offer Streaming AND Seatback you cant be a better option.
Domestically I tend to be more price based, lean towards US3, First class if I can, this could make me lean towards DL and away from AA, I already tend to book away from UA on domestic runs
Internationally unless I can do J its Delta or a foreign carrier
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:05 pm

Wireless streaming being slow is a myth. If passenger has a 801.11b/g device it will be slow.

Like I said seat back monitors are headache for mx and cabin crews. Once pax is on in-flight wireless network, burden is on passenger to make it work, not on FAs.

In premium cabins airlines may choose to mount tablets on seat back. A 12 inch iPad Pro will be cheaper and superior in every aspect than current bulky seat back monitors.

Use savings to pay royalty to studios and offer more or all content for free, rather than charging passengers for premium content.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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diverdave
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:18 pm

davescj wrote:
Delta is expanding IFE. They have Delta Studio when wi-fi is available, which gives options both for pay and for free. DL also seems to be expanding IFE in general. The remodeled A319s are a good example. Good sized screen, good choices. I don't find the box to be uncomfortable.


Even better, all IFE on Delta is now free! Don't hold your breath waiting for Doug Parker and company to match that. :D

David
 
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Revelation
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:27 pm

LAXintl wrote:
We know in-flight entertainment is important to our customers, which is why we’ve committed to offering free, streaming high-quality movies and music, and to investing in fast satellite-based Internet access and power at every seat across our domestic fleet.


Not a bad proposal, but there is some nuance here. To use the free movies you have to load their app. Once you load their app, you will be plugged in to their eco-system, and they will learn an awful lot about you and your habits. It's all gold to the marketing team.

And just because they mention free movies, it doesn't mean there is no paid content there, either now or in the future.

Getting the app onto your device is what gets their foot into your door. They can and do leverage that for increased revenue opportunities.

LAXintl wrote:
Entertainment and connection options like these are the future of in-flight entertainment, which is why we’ve decided that our new Boeing 737 MAX will arrive later this year without seatback video screens.


And thus, the dreaded 'inconsistent product' issue.

LAXintl wrote:
More than 90 percent of our passengers already bring a device or screen with them when they fly. Those phones and tablets are continually upgraded, they’re easy to use, and most importantly they are the technology that our customers have chosen. So it makes sense for American to focus on giving customers the best entertainment and fast connection options rather than installing seatback monitors that will be obsolete within a few years.


There's the big rub: AA is going to move away from seatback IFE and towards BYOD, and NOT do both. It does leave a gap relative to others that will do both, such as DL.

Makes sense from a business point of view. Seatback IFE is heavy, costly, and goes obsolete fast, far faster than the aircraft themselves do, so it's a continuous problem.

The real issue is, what does it do to customer sat? It seems AA has decided the benefits outweigh the risk of decreased customer sat.

LAXintl wrote:
Every customer with a phone, tablet or laptop will be able to watch free movies and TV shows from our extensive on-board library, as well as free live television channels, all without purchasing an in-flight Internet connection.


I agree with a lot of the complaints here:
  • I don't like holding a phone/tablet for the entire duration of the movie
  • I don't like keeping a laptop out during meal service
  • I don't like loading various apps onto my device
  • The 'standard' USB charging port is becoming less standard over time so people will have to bring the right cables and/or dongles with them
  • The industry is moving towards Bluetooth headsets so that's one more thing that needs to stay charged
  • The crew is increasingly going to have to become IT consultants to debug things that don't work
  • So many things (power point, WiFi, IFE server, device, app) ALL have to work reliably together, or you end up with no IFE.

But, in my mind, the shift to BYOD is INEVITABLE. Millions in fuel burn savings. Millions less in equipment costs. Millions in new revenue opportunities.

I think we're all just going to have to get used to it eventually, just like 10 across 777s and crappy seat pitch.

Free advise: Bring a book! :biggrin:

enilria wrote:
Is long as they charge for WIFI and not for IFE it's crappier.


The clear industry trend is to charge for each and every thing they can separately.

RamblinMan wrote:
Maybe I'm the oddball but last trip I took I had a laptop, phone, and small tablet with me but I still used the seatback IFE on the AA 319 I had on the return. It was just easier than digging any of my devices out of my bag. Took a DL MD88 on the outbound and while I'm pretty partial to DL I got off the AA flight thinking that it had really been nice and maybe AA is worth taking more often.

That being said, as long as they keep offering free streaming content I'll use my own device without whining and if it gets rid of those boxes under the seats then I can definitely see an upside.


Interesting. From the airline's point of view, you're carrying around all those IFE-ready devices anyway, and increasing the fuel burn to do so, so you might as well put them to use.
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jetlanta
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:35 pm

jumbojet wrote:
I call BS on 90% of people bring a device on board capable of streaming video/audio content. I fly a lot and often walk the length of the plane to stretch my legs and more often than not, folks have the in-seat IFE on. Although I might bring a laptop, I hate taking it out and having it take up the entire tray table which, when meal/beverage/snack service comes around, makes for a very awkward situation in trying to find room for my food and beverage and my laptop. Plus, with in-seat IFE, I can watch my program until basically the plane touches down and the IFE is switched off. Some things just aren't worth saving the extra money and this is one of them. AA is making billions of dollars. Parker is notorious for trying to pinch his pennies. Long live the in-seat IFE


This. Every last bit of it. Not to mention that watching TV at eye-level is naturally more comfortable. The rationale makes financial sense, but the customer experience will suffer in comparison to the carriers that offer it. It may not be a primary purchase driver, but it is a significant experience contributor.
 
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:50 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
AA is going to need to improve the reliability/maintenance of the powerports if this is going to work. Shedding weight is good, but if they are serious about a strong streaming solution I'm not sure that they will be shedding maintenance costs; powerports do not seem to be a maintenance priority at present, and most of AA's aircraft with power are relatively new.


And didn't AA transition to two powerports for every three seats? Or was that US. Anyway, if they want to go this route, one hopes they'll add one powerport per seat.
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Cubsrule
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:59 pm

OA412 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
AA is going to need to improve the reliability/maintenance of the powerports if this is going to work. Shedding weight is good, but if they are serious about a strong streaming solution I'm not sure that they will be shedding maintenance costs; powerports do not seem to be a maintenance priority at present, and most of AA's aircraft with power are relatively new.


And didn't AA transition to two powerports for every three seats? Or was that US. Anyway, if they want to go this route, one hopes they'll add one powerport per seat.


I can't speak to every aircraft in the fleet (most of my AA flights are sub-1,000 miles, so I often don't need power), but for me 100 percent streaming is a very different matter with one power port that is almost always working per seat versus what seems to be the status quo on AA.
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jumbojet
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:05 pm

wjcandee wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
I call BS on 90% of people bring a device on board capable of streaming video/audio content.


The PR idiots at AA are including your phone in that number. Phone. Great screen to watch movies on. (rolleyes)

Nobody has mentioned that JetBlue (and Virgin America) was basically founded on the idea that every seat should have IFE, in their case TV.

This "electronic babysitter" of children of all ages (including a lot of 40 year olds I know) has made the lives of B6 employees much easier than I'm sure they realize, as so many pax just lock their eyes on the screen for much of the flight. The IFE pacifies children that otherwise would busy themselves annoying me, and adults who otherwise would be looking for their 5th cocktail, and thereafter annoying me.

I know so many parents who will ONLY fly B6 with their children, because they know for sure that their monsters will behave like (distracted) little ladies and gentlemen.

And I agree that it is a PITA to pull out my laptop, and the phone is a poor IFE provider, and I don't want to waste its battery in any event.

Classic PR effort to pretend that something bad is in fact something good. Welcome to an inconsistent fleet of otherwise-identical aircraft.

DL and B6 and Virgin are better than anyone else at providing a truly-consistent product, and they get my business because of it.



Very well put. :checkmark:
 
airzona11
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:05 pm

As long as they get rid or Gogo wifi on the LUS bird, terrible. A huge portion of their fleet already does not have in seat TVs so this is not a huge change. Better wifi, more options = better. Especially for seasoned travelers, I could hazard a guess that Gold/Plat/Exec Plat etc all travel with a device to take advantage of the BYOD.

WN= BYOD
UA= BYOD
AA= BYOD
Not all DL planes have TVs, but they have a lot of seatback TVs, but clearly are AA is not going out on a limb with this decision.
 
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Keith2004
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:16 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Wireless streaming being slow is a myth. If passenger has a 801.11b/g device it will be slow.

Like I said seat back monitors are headache for mx and cabin crews. Once pax is on in-flight wireless network, burden is on passenger to make it work, not on FAs.

In premium cabins airlines may choose to mount tablets on seat back. A 12 inch iPad Pro will be cheaper and superior in every aspect than current bulky seat back monitors.

Use savings to pay royalty to studios and offer more or all content for free, rather than charging passengers for premium content.



Right....this is what they will use the savings for :lol: :lol:

Any savings garnered from IFE removal will be directly to profits...and expect fares to continue to go up
 
ckfred
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:16 pm

Here's the $64,000 question. Will you have to pay for streaming video? About the only thing you can do with a phone on an AA jet that doesn't incur the Wi-Fi charge is go to AA.com to check you gate assignments and see if the captain's arrival time estimate matches what AA.com says.

But, here's something that AA should have thought about. If you have to stream video on a device, then do you do, if you are eating a meal in first or working in coach? I've been on widebody aircraft with seatback screens and watched programming while eating a meal. My wife has had movies running while doing work on tray table.

If they make a slot in the seatback, so the cover of a tablet slips in, allowing the tablet to sit along the seatback where the screen sits, that could be workable.

Here's another issue. A lot of people carry company-issued laptops and aren't supposed to use them for anything personal. A former boss of my wife's was terminated, because a search of her laptop showed that she was shopping on line, at home, with the laptop.

Now, if AA goes to streaming, does that mean the IFE boxes under the seats come out? Those have become an issue for people who want to put something larger than a purse or attache case under the seat.
 
flymia
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:22 pm

Eh. Its really not a big deal if this is only a narrow body issue. Long Haul is where IFE is most important, and my most common domestic flight MIA-LAX I try to get on a wide body. But I still highly prefer in seat IFE. Its more comfortable and easier to use. This is a money saving play, as is most things companies do, but AA marketing will do its best (which they do a horrendous job at doing) to make it seem like this is a win for the passenger, which it is not.

Its not a big deal because the flights that matter most, long haul will still have the in seat IFE. I have used streaming IFE before and its pretty good. I just really prefer the ease of use and comfort of the instead screen.

As long as powerports are given and actually work this is not terrible, just not my preferred way.
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USAirALB
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:25 pm

Wow.

That's really all I can say. I'm pretty annoyed with this announcement. I kind of find it hard to believe. After AA invested so much into installing AVOD's (and advertising the fact that they have them), I'm pretty surprised that they are making such a drastic change.

Two things I am confused about:

1. It says "seatback screens". Will drop down monitors remain on the 738?
2. "Our widebodies will continue to have seatback screens, and some of our narrowbodies used for specific flights will also keep their seatback screens. We’ll keep seatback monitors on Boeing 777s, 787s, Airbus A330s, and our A350s, which begin arriving next year. We’re also committed to seat-back screens on our three-class A321s."

It says "some of our narrowbodies" followed by "we're also committed to seat-back screens on our three-class A321s." That makes me believe that other narrow-bodies besides the A321T will keep there PTVs, no?

Edit: It seems that AA is now more inclined to compete with UA, rather than DL. DL offers free-carry on items with access to overhead bin space with their Basic fares, offers free liquor/more food/amenity kits in Y on long-haul, and is still installing seatback IFE on their narrow-body fleet. If DL were to resume complimentary meal service on domestic flights (As they have trialed and are rumored to do so), I wonder if AA will not follow DL, but simply follow UA's lead.
Last edited by USAirALB on Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:30 pm

I remembered something I heard, maybe a couple of years ago. I watch "Mike & Mike" on ESPN2. Mike Greenberg said that he once was flying on United and sat next to a UA vice president. They got to talking about the airline industry. The VP said that the industry was probably going to drop seatback entertainment, because so many people tavel with a laptop, a tablet, or an oversized smartphone. So, people are bringing a lot of entertainment, downloaded onto their devices, with them. Or, they would rather stream video. The VP's comment was that no matter how often new IFE equipment is installed, some device with a better screen comes along.

So, AA's announcement isn't all that surprising.

But, will narrowbody jets still have the drop-down LCD screens? Think about it. If the 737MAX doesn't have drop-down screens, then the F/As will have to perform safety demonstrations like they do on the MD-80.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:13 pm

Having seatback IFE is convenient, but I think this is the one place that likes to pretend it is vital. I flew WN last month and having the streaming TV on my iPad was fantastic. DL the next trip with the other entertainment options were just fine. Now with Netflix you can even download your movies or tv shows to your tablet. Options are getting better and better everyday. Even the newest IFE systems feel clunky and outdated, using my iPad is miles easier.

The one thing I will agree with though is inflight power is a problem. I can really stretch my iPad battery. But if I'm at work all day and catch a late flight, a power port is a must.
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jeffh747
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:35 pm

This is where JetBlue excels. I often find myself choosing them over the countless AA PHL-South Florida flights because B6 offers both. Free Wifi (with the option to upgrade to higher speed), and the PTVs. AA's product is just so inconsistent that you never really know what you're getting when you fly on them as far as IFE goes.
From a customer perspective, it looks like they're going one step forward and two steps back.
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usflyer msp
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:46 pm

caoimhin wrote:
I flew DUB-PHL on an AA 757 a few months back. Bloody nightmare.

I usually fly this trip on BA via LHR, typically on a 789 in the past year or so. I look forward to IFE. It's a nice opportunity to stare at a slightly larger screen than my phone, and perhaps watch something I would not otherwise have watched.

BestWestern wrote:
.

Off topic, but is that true even if you use a dongle/splitter? What about Bluetooth headphones?


Oh Please. A nightmare? I flew PHL-AMS-PHL on an AA 757 last week and it was fine. I prefer to sleep, so I rarely use the IFE at all if the flight is less than 8 hours...
 
PRAirbus
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:47 pm

AA is not removing IFE from the seatbacks on the planes that have it...
 
toobz
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:03 pm

To those that say that most people use their own devices..sure if the airline doesn't offer seatback IFE I can totally see that. But if anyone flies DL a lot, they have noticed that 90%+ are utilizing and enjoying the seatback IFE. This is a move in the wrong direction for AA, in my opinion.
 
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res77W
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:06 pm

PRAirbus wrote:
AA is not removing IFE from the seatbacks on the planes that have it...


Beat me to it. So it seems just the 737MAX won't have seat back IFE. This just complicates the inflight experience with AA imho. There is no set standard. New jets without in-seat IFE, new jets with in-seat IFE, now back to no in-seat IFE.

-Rowen
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:15 pm

caoimhin wrote:
I flew DUB-PHL on an AA 757 a few months back. Bloody nightmare.


Much of their international 757 fleet is still really outdated. I flew an AA 757 with no IFE BOS-CDG. It was borderline torture. I don't think it should matter if its widebody vs narrowbody. If you are flying it across the pond....you should have IFE. Period.

They should take some notes from Delta. Their 757's are pretty snazy.
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AtlasRise
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:14 pm

AA has been slowly declining for well over a decade or two. The smaller usairways brought a stop to the decline but the larger AA is digesting it and the decline continues.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:29 pm

commavia wrote:
It is indeed clear - that is part of Delta's plan to continue driving a revenue premium. What I'm saying is that I'll be curious to see if that plan actually works out in practice.


I don't think we have to be curious about it. It likely won't command any meaningful revenue premium. Even after a few years or making it priority, DL is barely now breaking over the 50% mark for domestic mainline AVOD. If you consider flights flown, it certainly would be under half with all those MDs on short stage lengths. And if you include regionals, AVOD is still on a small fraction of their domestic flights. And to top it off, their top margin hubs in MSP, DTW, and ATL are dominated by PTV-less planes.

Keith2004 wrote:
And I'm not a DL Fan boy, but DL just seems to objectively offer a better experience in J, C and Y than UA and AA


Don't forget that DL passengers "pay" for the bells and whistles in the way of less personal/shared space and other cutbacks. DL's configurations are consistently the tightest and most dense, or near it, of the non-LCCs.

jetlanta wrote:
This. Every last bit of it. Not to mention that watching TV at eye-level is naturally more comfortable. The rationale makes financial sense, but the customer experience will suffer in comparison to the carriers that offer it. It may not be a primary purchase driver, but it is a significant experience contributor.


It may more comfortable for you, but it's not for me. I find a personal device more comfortable (and of better quality) to watch.

toobz wrote:
To those that say that most people use their own devices..sure if the airline doesn't offer seatback IFE I can totally see that. But if anyone flies DL a lot, they have noticed that 90%+ are utilizing and enjoying the seatback IFE. This is a move in the wrong direction for AA, in my opinion.


I don't get the luxury of narrowbody AVOD planes very often, but when I do, it's not even close to 90% usage. I wonder if it's even 50%.
 
USAirALB
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:42 pm

res77W wrote:
PRAirbus wrote:
AA is not removing IFE from the seatbacks on the planes that have it...


Beat me to it. So it seems just the 737MAX won't have seat back IFE. This just complicates the inflight experience with AA imho. There is no set standard. New jets without in-seat IFE, new jets with in-seat IFE, now back to no in-seat IFE.

-Rowen

Where is that posted?

The memo says that PTVs will be removed, except for widebodies and A321Ts.
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tcfc424
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:43 pm

I am Plat with AA and Gold with UA...oh, about 98 segments last year. As a regular business traveler (lets be honest, this is what the airlines are after) I travel with a laptop, ipad, and iphone. My biggest concern is power at every seat. I rarely use the seatback monitors when provided, as I prefer to use my Bose earbuds. I have an iPhone 7, and so they're bluetooth...while I do carry my Apple earpods as a back up, I don't carry the lightning -> 3.5mm dongle with me. Every single time I have been on an AA aircraft with seatback IFE, I have heard at least 1 person lament about not being able to connect their bluetooth headphones. DL is the only "competitor" that is actively installing seatback IFE. To be honest, B6 and VA are not competitors a similar number of domestic markets like AA, DL, UA, and WN do. Sure, maybe occasionally you can catch one of their flights...but for me its AA or UA because B6 and VA do not serve the markets I am flying to. As the "quintessential business pax" the airlines are targeting, here are my IFE concerns, in order of priority.

1) Working AC power at every seat (standard 110v plug)
2) Quality WiFi ---no, GoGo does not cut it.
3) Free on-demand entertainment via my own device.

The only other thing, and it has been mentioned...it would be really nice to attach my ipad to the seat in front of me somehow...but I'll deal with it.
 
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res77W
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:45 pm

USAirALB wrote:
res77W wrote:
PRAirbus wrote:
AA is not removing IFE from the seatbacks on the planes that have it...


Beat me to it. So it seems just the 737MAX won't have seat back IFE. This just complicates the inflight experience with AA imho. There is no set standard. New jets without in-seat IFE, new jets with in-seat IFE, now back to no in-seat IFE.

-Rowen

Where is that posted?

The memo says that PTVs will be removed, except for widebodies and A321Ts.


https://airwaysmag.com/industry/america ... g-737-max/

-Rowen
 
AABB777
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:37 pm

Sadly another step backwards for AA. I completely understand the rationale stated by AA for their decision regarding IFE. However, from a premium travelers perspective, it's another decision that devalues the product and overall travel experience across all cabins. Slowly but surely the inevitable is happening: AA is becoming the airline we hope it would not. I am one of AA's biggest fans, and travel often on revenue F tickets, but am now seeing the slow transformation. I secretly now wish DL was a better option for me and my travel needs.
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:46 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
I don't get the luxury of narrowbody AVOD planes very often, but when I do, it's not even close to 90% usage. I wonder if it's even 50%.


I think the low usage of IFE that people describe is due more to the options being less than ideal. For example whenever I'm flying B6 with their free live tv I feel like almost everyone takes advantage of it. I think B6 has done probably the best job out of all the airlines here in the US when it comes to this. There implementation ages well too. Who is going to call live TV outdated.
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USAirALB
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:48 pm

res77W wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
res77W wrote:

Beat me to it. So it seems just the 737MAX won't have seat back IFE. This just complicates the inflight experience with AA imho. There is no set standard. New jets without in-seat IFE, new jets with in-seat IFE, now back to no in-seat IFE.

-Rowen

Where is that posted?

The memo says that PTVs will be removed, except for widebodies and A321Ts.


https://airwaysmag.com/industry/america ... g-737-max/

-Rowen


At the bottom it says "IFE screens will remain of planes used for international flights, as well as in its three-class Airbus A321Ts and some single-aisle planes used for specific flights."

So A321Ts and some single-aisle planes. That doesn't mean all AA single-aisle planes today that have IFE will keep it, but a select few will.

My guess is that L-AA A319s that have IFE will probably keep it, seeing as that they fly Latin American and Northern-South American routes. We still don't know about the fate of overhead screens on 738s, but I am willing to bet they will probably be removed. I could see A321H planes keeping their PTV's as well.
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rta
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:57 pm

I really like the idea of having seatback entertainment but most AA domestic planes don't have them. If I'm only getting seatback 10% of the time I'm flying domestic AA, then I basically consider that as not getting seatback IFE while flying domestic AA. With the size of the combined fleet, and given that a majority of planes don't have it, I can understand why they decided to do this.

Objectively, Delta will have a more complete experience but I think AA (and UA) will be fine.
 
OB1504
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Re: AA To Remove Narrowbody IFE

Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:06 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
In premium cabins airlines may choose to mount tablets on seat back. A 12 inch iPad Pro will be cheaper and superior in every aspect than current bulky seat back monitors.


AA already does this in the premium cabin on the 767-300 and on the 757-200s with the new fully lie-flat business class seats.

Cabin crews have a tendency to collect the tablets maddeningly early (up to an hour before arrival), and when these aircraft are used on domestic flights, the tablets aren't given out at all. I've had the unique experience of sitting in a brand-new state-of-the-art lie-flat bed for an entire flight... with no IFE (or Wi-Fi, since the addition of satellite-based Wi-Fi to the 767 fleet was scrapped).

diverdave wrote:
Even better, all IFE on Delta is now free! Don't hold your breath waiting for Doug Parker and company to match that. :D


You can breathe now... AA already did the same thing a few months ago shortly after Delta announced it.

OA412 wrote:
And didn't AA transition to two powerports for every three seats? Or was that US. Anyway, if they want to go this route, one hopes they'll add one powerport per seat.


The 737s without seatback screens (nose numbers 3AA-3LB) have two power ports per three seats in the main cabin, but the ones that do have seatback screens (nose numbers 3LC and up) have individual power and USB ports.

The LAA A319s and A321s (nose numbers 001-032, 783-799, 850-899, 986 and up) also have individual power and USB ports as well as seatback screens across the fleet. Power ports were added to the LUS A319s (nose numbers 700-770, 801-840) when they were reconfigured to add Main Cabin Extra, but I can't recall if they offer individual power or if it's two power ports per three seats in the main cabin.

res77W wrote:
Beat me to it. So it seems just the 737MAX won't have seat back IFE. This just complicates the inflight experience with AA imho. There is no set standard. New jets without in-seat IFE, new jets with in-seat IFE, now back to no in-seat IFE.


It boggles the mind that there are going to be brand new aircraft joining the fleet at the end of this year with an inferior onboard product to the aircraft that were delivered last year.

USAirALB wrote:
Where is that posted?

The memo says that PTVs will be removed, except for widebodies and A321Ts.


What I read only stated that the 737 MAX would not be delivered with seatback screens, and I think we read the same memo.

Then again, US Airways ripped out all of the IFE from their aircraft at one point, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised if AA decides to rip out the screens, too.

USAirALB wrote:
At the bottom it says "IFE screens will remain of planes used for international flights, as well as in its three-class Airbus A321Ts and some single-aisle planes used for specific flights."

So A321Ts and some single-aisle planes. That doesn't mean all AA single-aisle planes today that have IFE will keep it, but a select few will.

My guess is that L-AA A319s that have IFE will probably keep it, seeing as that they fly Latin American and Northern-South American routes. We still don't know about the fate of overhead screens on 738s, but I am willing to bet they will probably be removed. I could see A321H planes keeping their PTV's as well.


"Some" single-aisle planes could also include the 66-strong 738A subfleet. I doubt it, but perhaps they could be intentionally scheduled on longer and/or international flights. International flights in particular are what concerns me about the BYOD approach since the Wi-Fi on narrowbodies generally only works while over the continental US.

Why would they remove the overhead screens too, though?

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