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DaufuskieGuy
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Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:00 pm

Outside the United States, in cities such as London, Paris, Madrid, Zurich, Frankfurt, Rome, Istanbul, Mumbai, Sydney, and Buenos Aires, public-private partnerships are transforming the industry, with airports getting sold or leased to private-management companies that focus on pleasing passengers. To make a profit, these managers must hold down costs, while enticing customers with lots of flights, competitive fares, and terminals with appealing stores and restaurants. London’s three airports have improved dramatically since they were privatized—first as a single company, and then divided into three separate firms so as to encourage competition. Heathrow, currently eighth in the international ranking, has been so intent on attracting passengers that it built and runs a nonstop express train linking the terminal to central London. To deal with surging demand, its management company is seeking to add another runway, as is the rival company in London running Gatwick Airport.

In the United States, by contrast, airports are still typically run by politicians in conjunction with the locally dominant airlines, which help finance the terminals in return for long-term leases on the gates and other facilities. Keeping costs down and customers happy are not the highest priorities. The airlines use their control of the gates and landing slots to keep out competitors so that they can charge higher fares; the politicians use their share of the revenue to reward supporters, especially the unionized airport workers who contribute to their campaigns.

https://www.city-journal.org/html/makin ... 14946.html
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:12 pm

I'll readily agree that New York's airports need help, but many of this article's premises seem wrong. It's not true that all airports in Europe or Asia or India are nice. It's not true that the US has no nice airports. It's not true that governments cannot build nice airports. So what exactly is the point?
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ty97
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:21 pm

PANYNJ tried private ownership of an airport (albeit the, by far, smallest airport) they oversee at SWF. It failed. I don't see them going that way again anytime soon.
 
ty97
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:23 pm

Also, very very few airports in the US are slot controlled, and that slot controlling has nothing to do with airport ownership.
 
sagechan
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:42 pm

Governmental agencies are capable of running an airport well and building great airports. Whether that applies to the PANYNJ is debatable. I'd honestly like to see the airport comparison of the expected earnings of selling off the land at LGA and JFK and building a modern airport further afield including transit links. My guess is despite the efficiency gains the cost even with the land sales would be insane.
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DaufuskieGuy
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:47 pm

sagechan wrote:
Governmental agencies are capable of running an airport well and building great airports. Whether that applies to the PANYNJ is debatable. I'd honestly like to see the airport comparison of the expected earnings of selling off the land at LGA and JFK and building a modern airport further afield including transit links. My guess is despite the efficiency gains the cost even with the land sales would be insane.


and where would that land "further afield" be and at what cost? A long way and a lot would be my guess...
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:01 pm

A skilled construction worker in India is paid $10/day, these are migrant workers (within India from different states), they live nomad life style, save almost entire earnings and move on to next project in different state.

They are relatively happy because they earn almost double than what other unskilled workers are getting paid. They don't need to borrow $8000-$10000 from a loan shark to pay an employment broker to land same job in middle east for $22/day.

When you have access to this kind of workforce you can build Mumbai T2 for meager $2 Billion and India is able to build lot of new airports like HYD,BLR, DEL T3,BOM T2, MAA, CCU and several others.

Try recreating Mumbai T2 terminal building here, it would cost $40 Billion.

Latest airport terminal building in India was completed in record 11 months. It is very small but...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJU7G8B2Q6A
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sagechan
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:04 pm


and where would that land "further afield" be and at what cost? A long way and a lot would be my guess...


Yeah I don't see it happening, as I tried to indicate at the end of the post, though I do see it as the only way to have a true modern airport in NYC area. JFK and LGA don't have the foot print to consolidate at either location.
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YIMBY
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:06 pm

The very most biggest problem in JFK and probably all the other international airports in the US is TSA, Border Control, Customs etc, which hardly can be privatized. The next biggest - much smaller though - is ground transport downtown. Then there are, or course, a quantity of other smaller problems, many of which are due to old infrastructure which isn't easily expanded. Competition between airport operators may not solve any but less significant problems.

(I am afraid that the overcrowding problem in international airports will be "solved" by involuntary reductions of international travels, though.)
 
ty97
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:14 pm

DaufuskieGuy wrote:

and where would that land "further afield" be and at what cost? A long way and a lot would be my guess...


Unless we build anew (seemingly impossible in such a populated area) it would have to be SWF or ISP, neither of which currently have the runway space to support it. And people live near those airports, so expect blowback if there was ever a plan to expand them greatly (SWF had to deal with this just to start the limited service they have)

And that doesn't even begin to speak to the rail connections to these airport and the cost of building those.

I'll keep my crappy LGA and JFK thank you very much.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:35 pm

New York City, as I, a DC-based traveler who once in a while connects there, see it:

--Congestion and delays, above all else, are the problem with the NYC region's three major airports. Sure, we all like updated terminal facilities (and newer terminals, like JFK T4, are very good). But above all, air travel is about getting places quickly on a schedule. Everything should be geared to that. And NYC, as we all know, fails miserably. So, top priority should be reducing congestion and delays. How to do that?

Simple: Airspace and number of airplanes need to be matched. Period. Politics will prevent any new runways from being built at the three big NYC airports. And the airspace couldn't handle the additional planes. So, keep all three airports slotted and reduce slots proportionally among all airlines 10 percent, while requiring at least two dailies be maintained to any small markets that currently have at least that many flights. DCA is slotted somewhat below its capacity, to help protect IAD. The side benefit is that DCA is not congested and delay-prone. The same should be done in New York.

Overnight, the gnarled mess of NYC airspace and the airports could be solved. Let the airlines howl. They have bigger planes, which typically are more efficient than smaller ones anyway, and people would get in and out of NYC on time, without major infrastructure spending. Airspace decongestion would no doubt have to be imposed by the Federal government, but too bad. NYC delays ripple around the country. NYC doesn't have the weather of LA and its airspace should be treated accordingly: reduce slots to keep NYC decongested in all weather conditions.

Would this happen? Probably not. But it's the only thing that could, at minimal cost, deal with the delay situation in NYC.

Once that's done, we can talk about terminals. :)

Jim
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JetBuddy
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:19 pm

YIMBY wrote:
The very most biggest problem in JFK and probably all the other international airports in the US is TSA, Border Control, Customs etc, which hardly can be privatized. The next biggest - much smaller though - is ground transport downtown. Then there are, or course, a quantity of other smaller problems, many of which are due to old infrastructure which isn't easily expanded. Competition between airport operators may not solve any but less significant problems.

(I am afraid that the overcrowding problem in international airports will be "solved" by involuntary reductions of international travels, though.)


The service TSA is providing is often done by private security contractors like Securitas and G4S in other countries. Customs and Border Control should remain government agencies though.
 
TW870
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:27 pm

It is important to also note that they were never great - perhaps other than Saarinen's architectural masterwork.

Read Robert Caro's excellent 1974 book _The Power Broker_, which is about the titan of New York urban planning Robert Moses. Because of the mid-20th century consensus that the car was the optimal mode of transit for the U.S., they purposely scuttled intermodal transportation at the airports, and in particular blocked efforts to run either an El or a Subway down the Van Wyck and into JFK. So from the get-go, the air to surface interface at JFK was a mess, as cabs and private cars (and PA's helicopters for those who could afford it) were the only easy way to get to JFK. When you layer that across the massive technological deficit on the Northeast Corridor rail network, which has always forced the airlines to have more than their fair share of shorthaul traffic, the system became unmanageable quickly. Thus, we would be making NY airports great for the first time, and not "again".
 
einkleinerknabe
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:50 pm

DCA-ROCguy wrote:
Simple: Airspace and number of airplanes need to be matched. Period. Politics will prevent any new runways from being built at the three big NYC airports. And the airspace couldn't handle the additional planes. So, keep all three airports slotted and reduce slots proportionally among all airlines 10 percent, while requiring at least two dailies be maintained to any small markets that currently have at least that many flights. DCA is slotted somewhat below its capacity, to help protect IAD. The side benefit is that DCA is not congested and delay-prone. The same should be done in New York.

Overnight, the gnarled mess of NYC airspace and the airports could be solved. Let the airlines howl. They have bigger planes, which typically are more efficient than smaller ones anyway, and people would get in and out of NYC on time, without major infrastructure spending. Airspace decongestion would no doubt have to be imposed by the Federal government, but too bad. NYC delays ripple around the country. NYC doesn't have the weather of LA and its airspace should be treated accordingly: reduce slots to keep NYC decongested in all weather conditions.


Airlines might complain publicly, but I don't think they would be that unhappy. Restricting capacity and increasing the difficulty for new competitors to enter the market should increase margins (as should a reduction in delays).
But how are you going to require two dailies be maintained to current destinations? Indefinitely? It seems like we might end up with ER4's to "required" destinations and WB's to most others. Otherwise you're cutting potential destinations while requiring the feed to be maintained.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:01 pm

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
Outside the United States, in cities such as London, Paris, Madrid, Zurich, Frankfurt, Rome, Istanbul, Mumbai, Sydney, and Buenos Aires, public-private partnerships are transforming the industry, with airports getting sold or leased to private-management companies that focus on pleasing passengers.

https://www.city-journal.org/html/makin ... 14946.html


That's an opinion from a right-wing think tank (that wants privatization), not a conclusion of multiple peer-reviewed journals of economics and government.
 
YIMBY
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:06 pm

TW870 wrote:
It is important to also note that they were never great - perhaps other than Saarinen's architectural masterwork.

Read Robert Caro's excellent 1974 book _The Power Broker_, which is about the titan of New York urban planning Robert Moses. Because of the mid-20th century consensus that the car was the optimal mode of transit for the U.S., they purposely scuttled intermodal transportation at the airports, and in particular blocked efforts to run either an El or a Subway down the Van Wyck and into JFK. So from the get-go, the air to surface interface at JFK was a mess, as cabs and private cars (and PA's helicopters for those who could afford it) were the only easy way to get to JFK. When you layer that across the massive technological deficit on the Northeast Corridor rail network, which has always forced the airlines to have more than their fair share of shorthaul traffic, the system became unmanageable quickly. Thus, we would be making NY airports great for the first time, and not "again".


As there are apparently too many legal and physical obstacles to build any railway in the ground, what prohibits to build a railroad deep underground, as in many places elsewhere, particularly Europe?
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:11 pm

ty97 wrote:
PANYNJ tried private ownership of an airport (albeit the, by far, smallest airport) they oversee at SWF. It failed. I don't see them going that way again anytime soon.

Except for Newark Terminal B and its own administration buildings...all of the buildings are privately managed under master leases...either by airlines, outside management, or REITs. The real problem is the crowded airspace, especially with the late morning-early afternoon rush in and the 5 PM-9PM rush out to make morning flight banks in Europe. That is why bigger planes are used here, but you have separation issues with LGA.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:20 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
Outside the United States, in cities such as London, Paris, Madrid, Zurich, Frankfurt, Rome, Istanbul, Mumbai, Sydney, and Buenos Aires, public-private partnerships are transforming the industry, with airports getting sold or leased to private-management companies that focus on pleasing passengers.

https://www.city-journal.org/html/makin ... 14946.html


That's an opinion from a right-wing think tank (that wants privatization), not a conclusion of multiple peer-reviewed journals of economics and government.


I.e. the exact people that will get listened to in Trump's America...
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jfk777
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:48 pm

Its time to have JFK ditch the last two circa 1970 terminals, Delta T2 & BA T7, The PANYNJ needs to do whatever it needs to do to buyout the leases and build new terminals on the sites. BA could move to AA's T8, after it gets built out to original specs. The T2 & T3 sites could be a great addition to T1 or T4. Those old Delta and Pan AM sites would get JFK badly needed gate space. The old BA T7 site could get added to JetBlue. The goal at JFK should be not terminal from the 20th century.
 
incitatus
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:05 pm

So many alternative facts in the opening post. Let's just charge London-level taxes and fees for airport usage in the US and there will be a good pile of money to fund spanking new infrastructure - and a revolt!
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
redroo
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:44 pm

Actually I would argue AGAINST private ownership of airports. In Australia Sydney has become incredibly expensive as MaqBank milk it for every dollar they can - $60 a day at domestic for parking. Perth have chronically underinvested and Melbourne is bursting at the seams. Don't get me started on Brisbane domestic either. Then in the UK, LHR has had money spent on it, but let's be honest, LHR is a shopping mall with gates attached to it.

Airports should be publicly owned infrastructure that are operated for the benefit of their customers - the airlines and the passengers. They should be easy and cheap to get to. Simple to navigate with plenty of space to get from check in to the gate. Plenty of seats at the gate - heck how about a seat for every passenger. And if there are a few places to buy something to eat / last minute gift that I don't have to avoid/snake through to get to my gate or immigration, then that would be nice too.

... I can dream...
 
atlflyer
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:35 pm

LGA is completely being rebuilt.

http://laguardiaairport.com/redevelopment/
 
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richcam427
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:17 am

Revelation wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
Outside the United States, in cities such as London, Paris, Madrid, Zurich, Frankfurt, Rome, Istanbul, Mumbai, Sydney, and Buenos Aires, public-private partnerships are transforming the industry, with airports getting sold or leased to private-management companies that focus on pleasing passengers.

https://www.city-journal.org/html/makin ... 14946.html


That's an opinion from a right-wing think tank (that wants privatization), not a conclusion of multiple peer-reviewed journals of economics and government.


I.e. the exact people that will get listened to in Trump's America...


Wrong. The US government is never for privatization, unfortunately.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:43 pm

I think this is an article more about right wing political theory about privatization than actually about how to fix the New York Airports.

I will start off saying that the Port Authority is not a well run efficient organization. With that said, the mix of private and public ownership at the New York airports is part of the problem. The JFK terminals were all built privately and are privately owned. Each does its own thing based on its owners desires. They do not cooperate yet the port authority is responsible for the overall airport. This setup is really messy. I don't see how US law could void those leases and somehow sell the terminals to another private company. I can't think of an example where the government confiscated private property and gave it to another private company.

The article seems confused about what is going on at LGA. The airport is getting all the new gates and modern terminal, yet the article is complaining about the current traffic situation. While obviously closing roads and demolishing a parking garage is going to cause traffic jams, can you really expect no traffic with such a construction project.

The article also seems to think privatizing airports will get new runways built. I don't think a private company is going to find the space to build a new runway at Newark.

The comparisons to Cancun and San Juan are simplistic. There are no where near as many constraints there. A private company can monetize those airports.

London is an interesting example. Heathrow is getting the terminals it needs although they look more like shopping malls. IST and FRA are hardly airports that should be held in high esteem. Both are bursting at the seams and over capacity.

The port authority situation in New York is a mess. It takes years to get things done at overinflated costs. I totally agree. I don't think privatization is a magic wand, but there are many opportunities for improvement.
 
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enilria
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:44 pm

When exactly were they all GREAT?

I'd like to point out that the airports are privatized even in places like Russia, where the USA is nearly completely government owned. Having said that, the Cost Per Enplanement in the USA averages around $10 which is one of the lowest in the world. SO, you get what you pay for...
ty97 wrote:
PANYNJ tried private ownership of an airport (albeit the, by far, smallest airport) they oversee at SWF. It failed. I don't see them going that way again anytime soon.

Didn't they also try that with ACY? ...and it clearly, oh nevermind...
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:49 pm

Guys some things need to be corrected above:

SWF: PA did not try privatization there. That is a NYS owned airport. NYS tried privatization and then hired the PA. The reason privatization failed there (and why the PA is failing miserably there) is that the airport is in an economically-depressed, sparsely-populated area with no easy connection to the population center to the south. But stay tuned...good things are finally starting to happen in the Hudson Valley...it may be a 20 year arc, but SWF may see its day yet.

JFK: All terminals now operated privately. T4 was the last PA run terminal. As for building T7 or T2, that will reside with a private operator. The PA has left the terminal building business.

LGA: Thank god all terminals are now operated privately! Delta is building their half, LaGuardia Partners building their half. Difference is, unlike previous projects at JFK and LGA, there is a unified vision under Gov Cuomo. Delta is essentially building out their piece of a larger airport.

EWR: Terminal A and B are still run by the PA. I imagine going forward that will change, especially with the Terminal A demo and rebuild.

JFK/LGA, NYS Troopers are beginning to supplement (and I imo eventually replace) the PAPD, thus putting the airport more firmly under local police protection. The state police answer to the governor who answers to voters. More accountability after the JFK active shooter fiasco of this past summer.

The PA actually does a good job of maintaining runways, taxiways and roadways...and that is what they should and will stick too going forward; at least on the NYS side of the border.
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:05 pm

richcam427 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

That's an opinion from a right-wing think tank (that wants privatization), not a conclusion of multiple peer-reviewed journals of economics and government.


I.e. the exact people that will get listened to in Trump's America...


Wrong. The US government is never for privatization, unfortunately.


I'm afraid so.

Why should a government relinquish control on things? It's counter-productive.

Now, I agree airports are probably not the best example, due to the presence and necessity of government agencies, but let's not kid ourselves. Governments are not businessmen.
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IPFreely
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:30 pm

YIMBY wrote:
The very most biggest problem in JFK and probably all the other international airports in the US is TSA, Border Control, Customs etc, which hardly can be privatized.


TSA can be privatized, and several airports have already ditched government TSA employees in favor of private contractors. The first to do so was FSD, the largest is probably SFO.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/24/opinions/ ... rell-issa/

https://skift.com/2016/05/27/more-airpo ... y-instead/
 
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Revelation
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:43 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
richcam427 wrote:
Revelation wrote:

I.e. the exact people that will get listened to in Trump's America...


Wrong. The US government is never for privatization, unfortunately.


I'm afraid so.

Why should a government relinquish control on things? It's counter-productive.

Now, I agree airports are probably not the best example, due to the presence and necessity of government agencies, but let's not kid ourselves. Governments are not businessmen.


Trump is a businessman. His party's policy is smaller government. There's profits to be made at airports. The trend will be to privatize. Don't be surprised if its Trump croneys and/or big campaign donors that walk away with the prizes. The 'culture war' things like abortion and immigration are getting the press these days, and that's by intent. The hollowing out of America is going to accelerate, and it's going to be done on the down-low. Airports are going to be plumb prizes.
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Cubsrule
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:49 pm

IPFreely wrote:
YIMBY wrote:
The very most biggest problem in JFK and probably all the other international airports in the US is TSA, Border Control, Customs etc, which hardly can be privatized.


TSA can be privatized, and several airports have already ditched government TSA employees in favor of private contractors. The first to do so was FSD, the largest is probably SFO.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/24/opinions/ ... rell-issa/

https://skift.com/2016/05/27/more-airpo ... y-instead/


I'm not convinced that private security is much different in quality than TSA, at least as far as passenger experience. The two largest airports with private security are MCI and SFO. MCI - where the terminal layout makes things really hard - is generally a treat. SFO often has surly screeners and long lines.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
global2
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:12 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
YIMBY wrote:
The very most biggest problem in JFK and probably all the other international airports in the US is TSA, Border Control, Customs etc, which hardly can be privatized.


TSA can be privatized, and several airports have already ditched government TSA employees in favor of private contractors. The first to do so was FSD, the largest is probably SFO.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/24/opinions/ ... rell-issa/

https://skift.com/2016/05/27/more-airpo ... y-instead/


I'm not convinced that private security is much different in quality than TSA, at least as far as passenger experience. The two largest airports with private security are MCI and SFO. MCI - where the terminal layout makes things really hard - is generally a treat. SFO often has surly screeners and long lines.


Wasn't 9/11 the reason the TSA was created in the first place? Prior to that, wasn't security farmed out to private firms? I'm not expressing a preference one way or another, but that's what I seem to recall.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:16 pm

global2 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
IPFreely wrote:

TSA can be privatized, and several airports have already ditched government TSA employees in favor of private contractors. The first to do so was FSD, the largest is probably SFO.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/24/opinions/ ... rell-issa/

https://skift.com/2016/05/27/more-airpo ... y-instead/


I'm not convinced that private security is much different in quality than TSA, at least as far as passenger experience. The two largest airports with private security are MCI and SFO. MCI - where the terminal layout makes things really hard - is generally a treat. SFO often has surly screeners and long lines.


Wasn't 9/11 the reason the TSA was created in the first place? Prior to that, wasn't security farmed out to private firms? I'm not expressing a preference one way or another, but that's what I seem to recall.


9/11 was the stated reason TSA was created, although no private security company did anything wrong on that day. Everything the perpetrators brought through the checkpoints was permitted.
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global2
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:19 pm

With the rebuild of LGA well underway, Governor Cuomo recently announced plans to re-build JFK:
http://www.politico.com/states/new-york ... ort-108469

I don't believe these plans are anywhere close to being finalized, and I don't think anyone has a real clue how it's going to be funded. But he also talked about widening the Van Wyck Expressway. Good God, we've just endured ten years of reconstructing the Kew Gardens interchange, and now this? Why spend more money to invite more cars to the airport? Why can't we finally get serious about building a direct rail link to Manhattan (like every other major world cities' airports)? Most of the right-of-way already exists (Rockaway Beach Branch of the LIRR).
 
DaveFly
Posts: 387
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:46 pm

ty97 wrote:
PANYNJ tried private ownership of an airport (albeit the, by far, smallest airport) they oversee at SWF. It failed. I don't see them going that way again anytime soon.


To be fair, Stewart Airport had way more commercial service under National Express Group than it currently does under the Port Authority.
717,727,737,747,757,767,777,787
L1011,DC8,DC9,DC10,MD80/90
A300,A319,320,321,330,340,
CRJ,E135/45/190,
DH8,Avro85,DHBeaver,AstarHelo,F100,ATR42
 
blacksoviet
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:13 pm

T7 is going to stay for many more years at JFK. They are currently remodeling it. I expect T4 to be completed before T8.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Making New York’s Airports Great Again

Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:36 pm

Please be aware that political comments do not belong in this thread or in this forum. Political commentary is restricted to the Non Aviation Forum by forum rules. Please keep this thread on topic and away from politics as much as possible, or the thread will have to be locked.

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