simpv
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Sun May 28, 2017 8:16 am

Would it not be a better strategy for UA at this point to let its *A partners fly the international routes, and instead build a domestic hub to provide connecting traffic?
 
klwright69
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Sun May 28, 2017 3:21 pm

Oh dear, here we go again...

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/05/ ... no-se.aspx

The Motley Fool's airline writer is at it again. He's advocating UA dumps LAX and IAD hubs. He's written about this before.
 
klwright69
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Sun May 28, 2017 7:40 pm

Does anyone else in the media still writing that UA should dehub LAX? Or is it just Adam Levin Weinberg?
 
grbauc
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Sun May 28, 2017 7:57 pm

simpv wrote:
Would it not be a better strategy for UA at this point to let its *A partners fly the international routes, and instead build a domestic hub to provide connecting traffic?


This would be a bold idea and since there more profit supposedly in domestic I can some merit to the idea. Not sure they have the room to build a major domestic hub and the transfer to international is far from ideal. I can see this move more so if shit was going down and they were in the hell in a handbasket kind away.
 
gregn21
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Tue May 30, 2017 2:57 am

Has anything come out regarding new routes/extra frequencies?
 
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LAXintl
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:40 pm

And that new route is Singapore.
http://newsroom.united.com/2017-06-01-U ... -Singapore

Also per a UA executive, there will be more coming as UA "regains" its share in LA.
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The777Man
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:06 pm

LAXintl wrote:
And that new route is Singapore.
http://newsroom.united.com/2017-06-01-U ... -Singapore

Also per Patrick Quayle, VP planning, there will be more coming as UA "regains" its share in LA.


More international routes ? Or more domestic ?

The777Man
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ldvaviation
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:21 pm

LAXintl wrote:
And that new route is Singapore.
http://newsroom.united.com/2017-06-01-U ... -Singapore

Also per Patrick Quayle, VP planning, there will be more coming as UA "regains" its share in LA.


No LAX-HKG?

This is a Valerie Cherish-type "comeback".
 
WPvsMW
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:48 pm

The T9 concept won't work without a subway to connect the western terminal complex. Surface rail.... impossible. Add a $billion and 5 years to the timeline.
 
flyfresno
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:51 pm

LAXintl wrote:
With Kirby's focus being domestic flying, I would expect them to beef up that first at LAX to give UA a more appealing and pertinent schedule offering.

Top 10 O&Ds from LAX are:
NYC, SFO, CHI, SEA, DC, DFW, HNL, LAS, BOS, MIA/FLL, there is good room for them to grow frequency and even add new market such as MIA.
The next 10 top markets are DEN, ATL, SJC, OAK, PHX, MCO, IAH PDX, PHL, MSP.


I'm surprised SMF isn't in the second 10.
 
SeaDoo
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:47 pm

LAXintl wrote:
And that new route is Singapore.
http://newsroom.united.com/2017-06-01-U ... -Singapore

Also per Patrick Quayle, VP planning, there will be more coming as UA "regains" its share in LA.


I was surprised to see the above thread. When this thread came up, I didn't suspect UA would be jumping into LAX-SIN. Shows how much I know.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:21 pm

The777Man wrote:
More international routes ? Or more domestic ?


Suppose since he is responsible for international planning its international, but I see definite room for domestic adds.

WPvsMW wrote:
The T9 concept won't work without a subway to connect the western terminal complex. Surface rail.... impossible. Add a $billion and 5 years to the timeline.


All 3 T-9 design concepts are linked to T-8 by bridge. No tunnel or subway.
Only real difference is will Sepulveda Blvd be left alone, or will the existing tunnel be extended a bit further north so T-9 gates can be closer and more directly connected to T-8.
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chrisnh
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:26 pm

LAXintl wrote:

Top 10 O&Ds from LAX are:
NYC, SFO, CHI, SEA, DC, DFW, HNL, LAS, BOS, MIA/FLL, there is good room for them to grow frequency and even add new market such as MIA.
The next 10 top markets are DEN, ATL, SJC, OAK, PHX, MCO, IAH PDX, PHL, MSP.


You mean DTW isn't among the Top 20? Someone gonna be mad, yo. :lol:
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:48 pm

ldvaviation wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
And that new route is Singapore.
http://newsroom.united.com/2017-06-01-U ... -Singapore

Also per Patrick Quayle, VP planning, there will be more coming as UA "regains" its share in LA.


No LAX-HKG?

This is a Valerie Cherish-type "comeback".


That market is flooded right now with CX already flying multiple trips per day. The same can't currently be said with SQ as they fly via ICN and NRT.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:58 pm

flyfresno wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
With Kirby's focus being domestic flying, I would expect them to beef up that first at LAX to give UA a more appealing and pertinent schedule offering.

Top 10 O&Ds from LAX are:
NYC, SFO, CHI, SEA, DC, DFW, HNL, LAS, BOS, MIA/FLL, there is good room for them to grow frequency and even add new market such as MIA.
The next 10 top markets are DEN, ATL, SJC, OAK, PHX, MCO, IAH PDX, PHL, MSP.


I'm surprised SMF isn't in the second 10.

Not in a long time. I counted 21 SMF-LAX flights today operated for 4 carriers (AA, DL, UA, WN, counting the Eagles, Expresses and Connections under the marketing carrier), and UA/OO operates only three of them; at least 2x CRJ200, with the third alternating with the CRJ, CR7 or E170. UA is the smallest presence in that market.
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flyfresno
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:26 pm

Wingtips56 wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
With Kirby's focus being domestic flying, I would expect them to beef up that first at LAX to give UA a more appealing and pertinent schedule offering.

Top 10 O&Ds from LAX are:
NYC, SFO, CHI, SEA, DC, DFW, HNL, LAS, BOS, MIA/FLL, there is good room for them to grow frequency and even add new market such as MIA.
The next 10 top markets are DEN, ATL, SJC, OAK, PHX, MCO, IAH PDX, PHL, MSP.


I'm surprised SMF isn't in the second 10.

Not in a long time. I counted 21 SMF-LAX flights today operated for 4 carriers (AA, DL, UA, WN, counting the Eagles, Expresses and Connections under the marketing carrier), and UA/OO operates only three of them; at least 2x CRJ200, with the third alternating with the CRJ, CR7 or E170. UA is the smallest presence in that market.


Ohhhh ok, I thought you meant total among all airlines. UA makes sense, there are more seats per day to FAT than SMF on UA many days...
 
N505fx
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:00 am

TWA772LR wrote:
This should kill the "UA to dehub LAX" rumors. Kirby already knows a lot about LAX from his AA days. This is going to be intense!

Can we expect them to create a virtual SFO 2.0? Mirroring Chinese expansion as well as seasonal LAX-AKL during the northern summer to compliment SFO's winter seasonal AKL flight to keep some kind of year-round service?


You mean going back to the way UA was at LAX before the merger when they were good?
 
Bald1983
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:03 am

I would think that LA has a lot of O&D traffic and demand for connections across the Pacific. They should build up the hub. One thing that would help, in my very uneducated view, is to upgrade more mainline flights to places such as Seattle. I have no problem with regional airlines, or their planes, but both Seattle and LAX are large and should support larger capacity flights. Given UAL's addition of a LAX to Singapore non-stop, more connecting traffic needs to be brought in. All that being said, I have yet to see any airline recruiting me to be its CEO so take this with a grain of salt.
 
Bald1983
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:09 am

N505fx wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
This should kill the "UA to dehub LAX" rumors. Kirby already knows a lot about LAX from his AA days. This is going to be intense!

Can we expect them to create a virtual SFO 2.0? Mirroring Chinese expansion as well as seasonal LAX-AKL during the northern summer to compliment SFO's winter seasonal AKL flight to keep some kind of year-round service?


You mean going back to the way UA was at LAX before the merger when they were good?

You mean going back to the way UA was at LAX before the merger when they were good?[/quote] Selective history on your part. UAL stunk before and after its bankruptcy. It was making a comeback by the time of the merger. It still had one of the oldest fleets in the industry. It was disliked big time. It only started to modernize its fleet when it ordered, pre-merger an equal number of 787's and A-350's. I flew them in the early days of the merger and noticed a difference in the quality of the service between ex CO crews and pre merger United crews. It was easy to tell who they were because they were still running separate operations as far as their flight attendants. CO people did better. So I would review your history.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:32 am

A little snippet of a comment from Scott Kirby....


According to the June 12th edition of Airline Weekly, Kirby was asked at last week's Deutsche Bank airline conference about LAX and why United not just drop the hub.

His answer was according to the article:
"Why would it do that, Kirby asked, when its profits margins there were higher than those of all of its rivals? "
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RyanairGuru
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:19 am

That wouldn't shock me because AA and DL flow more connections over LAX than UA do, who use SFO as their main West Coast hub. LAX for UA is more an oversized focus city than a hub, so without looking at the data I wouldn't be surprised if they have a higher proportion of O&D.

Before someone jumps down my throat that different to saying they are the largest O&D carrier.
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adlight105
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:14 pm

UA isn't in the business of building up a major Pacific hub seeing that they have already "won" that with SFO. Shouldn't their operation at LAX look a lot like DL's or AA's at JFK? By that I mean, their flights fall under three flavors at LAX: 1) premium transcon routes; 2) local connecting traffic on regionals and; 3) just enough long-haul internationals to support O&D demand and local LA-elite flyers.

Seems to me that we shouldn't be thinking of UA at LAX in terms of how 'big' it is relative to AA or DL (or even in past lives of UA)- but rather how well it's supporting those three flavors of missions. Just my two cents.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:51 pm

Wingtips56 wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
With Kirby's focus being domestic flying, I would expect them to beef up that first at LAX to give UA a more appealing and pertinent schedule offering.

Top 10 O&Ds from LAX are:
NYC, SFO, CHI, SEA, DC, DFW, HNL, LAS, BOS, MIA/FLL, there is good room for them to grow frequency and even add new market such as MIA.
The next 10 top markets are DEN, ATL, SJC, OAK, PHX, MCO, IAH PDX, PHL, MSP.


I'm surprised SMF isn't in the second 10.

Not in a long time. I counted 21 SMF-LAX flights today operated for 4 carriers (AA, DL, UA, WN, counting the Eagles, Expresses and Connections under the marketing carrier), and UA/OO operates only three of them; at least 2x CRJ200, with the third alternating with the CRJ, CR7 or E170. UA is the smallest presence in that market.


United doesn't fly to SJC from LAX and doesn't serve OAK at all, so it's not a ranking of top UA routes from LAX
 
atl100million
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:42 pm

LAXintl wrote:
A little snippet of a comment from Scott Kirby....


According to the June 12th edition of Airline Weekly, Kirby was asked at last week's Deutsche Bank airline conference about LAX and why United not just drop the hub.

His answer was according to the article:
"Why would it do that, Kirby asked, when its profits margins there were higher than those of all of its rivals? "


The problem with talking about how profitable any hub is requires also admitting that there are some parts of any carrier's network that don't generate profits near as high as other carriers - which Kirby hasn't done and which is relevant given that UAL's system profits are below a number of other carriers.

LAX is strategically important to a number of airlines right now because the lack of space to grow is pushing fares up and the long-term prospects are for above average fare growth.

However, there simply is not enough terminal and runway space for everyone that is talking about growth at LAX to actually translate that growth into reality.

UA can reallocate its assets to get the most out of its LAX facilities and everything they are doing says exactly that.
 
jayunited
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:40 pm

This morning I was on Flying Together and decided to watch Oscars Munoz conversation with employees at LAX. First of all I'm glad UA records these meeting that both Oscar and Scott Kirby have with employees all across the system but I hate the fact we can not post these videos in public forums there is so much good information given out in these meetings.
I was looking at the video, and the part that really grabbed my attention was the segment on balanced flying, when Oscar address the fact that (and I quote) "all hubs are going to get some incredible potential for growth". While talking about that growth potential he later referenced the fact that soon UA would be flying LAX-SIN and he stated there are other things coming later on referring to more flights at LAX. However what caught my attention was later when he stated (and I quote) "as Singapore and Tel Aviv become successful we have to feed them with certain aircraft." So my question is when Oscar mentioned Tel Aviv was he referring to SFO-TLV-SFO? Or is UA looking at possibly launching LAX-TLV and Oscar let it slip out in his town hall meeting? In the video after he mentions expansion and references both Singapore which has been announced and Tel Aviv it doesn't seem like he finished his sentence but instead changes the topic and starts talking about IAH, and what has been happening in IAH

So I'm putting this question to a.netters does anyone think LAX-TLV-LAX is on UA's radar of future flights from LAX?
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:29 am

jayunited wrote:
This morning I was on Flying Together and decided to watch Oscars Munoz conversation with employees at LAX. First of all I'm glad UA records these meeting that both Oscar and Scott Kirby have with employees all across the system but I hate the fact we can not post these videos in public forums there is so much good information given out in these meetings.
I was looking at the video, and the part that really grabbed my attention was the segment on balanced flying, when Oscar address the fact that (and I quote) "all hubs are going to get some incredible potential for growth". While talking about that growth potential he later referenced the fact that soon UA would be flying LAX-SIN and he stated there are other things coming later on referring to more flights at LAX. However what caught my attention was later when he stated (and I quote) "as Singapore and Tel Aviv become successful we have to feed them with certain aircraft." So my question is when Oscar mentioned Tel Aviv was he referring to SFO-TLV-SFO? Or is UA looking at possibly launching LAX-TLV and Oscar let it slip out in his town hall meeting? In the video after he mentions expansion and references both Singapore which has been announced and Tel Aviv it doesn't seem like he finished his sentence but instead changes the topic and starts talking about IAH, and what has been happening in IAH

So I'm putting this question to a.netters does anyone think LAX-TLV-LAX is on UA's radar of future flights from LAX?

What did they say about IAH?
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gregn21
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:04 am

jayunited wrote:
This morning I was on Flying Together and decided to watch Oscars Munoz conversation with employees at LAX. First of all I'm glad UA records these meeting that both Oscar and Scott Kirby have with employees all across the system but I hate the fact we can not post these videos in public forums there is so much good information given out in these meetings.
I was looking at the video, and the part that really grabbed my attention was the segment on balanced flying, when Oscar address the fact that (and I quote) "all hubs are going to get some incredible potential for growth". While talking about that growth potential he later referenced the fact that soon UA would be flying LAX-SIN and he stated there are other things coming later on referring to more flights at LAX. However what caught my attention was later when he stated (and I quote) "as Singapore and Tel Aviv become successful we have to feed them with certain aircraft." So my question is when Oscar mentioned Tel Aviv was he referring to SFO-TLV-SFO? Or is UA looking at possibly launching LAX-TLV and Oscar let it slip out in his town hall meeting? In the video after he mentions expansion and references both Singapore which has been announced and Tel Aviv it doesn't seem like he finished his sentence but instead changes the topic and starts talking about IAH, and what has been happening in IAH

So I'm putting this question to a.netters does anyone think LAX-TLV-LAX is on UA's radar of future flights from LAX?


Well there was a rumor at one point that the SFO-TLV service was going to be moved to LAX. . .
 
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LAXintl
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:48 am

At LAX employee townhall event last week Kirby had a few things to say

o Says UA most profitable of majors @ LAX with "double-digit margins". Says AA/DL "basically breakeven"
o More flying coming to LAX in 2018. Will back fill lost flying - example given was UAX to Medford. Also more Hawaii
o Facility limitations will constrain growth in short-term
o Longer term says T9 is happening and United will get it
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IPFreely
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:13 am

LAXintl wrote:
o More flying coming to LAX in 2018. Will back fill lost flying - example given was UAX to Medford. Also more Hawaii


With all that growth maybe LAX-MSP will come back.
 
strfyr51
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:18 am

flyfresno wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
With Kirby's focus being domestic flying, I would expect them to beef up that first at LAX to give UA a more appealing and pertinent schedule offering.

Top 10 O&Ds from LAX are:
NYC, SFO, CHI, SEA, DC, DFW, HNL, LAS, BOS, MIA/FLL, there is good room for them to grow frequency and even add new market such as MIA.
The next 10 top markets are DEN, ATL, SJC, OAK, PHX, MCO, IAH PDX, PHL, MSP.


I'm surprised SMF isn't in the second 10.



How did you manage to include Oakland when we don't fly there anymore?? And you left out SMF?? That's a surprise!!
 
cledaybuck
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:28 am

strfyr51 wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
With Kirby's focus being domestic flying, I would expect them to beef up that first at LAX to give UA a more appealing and pertinent schedule offering.

Top 10 O&Ds from LAX are:
NYC, SFO, CHI, SEA, DC, DFW, HNL, LAS, BOS, MIA/FLL, there is good room for them to grow frequency and even add new market such as MIA.
The next 10 top markets are DEN, ATL, SJC, OAK, PHX, MCO, IAH PDX, PHL, MSP.


I'm surprised SMF isn't in the second 10.



How did you manage to include Oakland when we don't fly there anymore?? And you left out SMF?? That's a surprise!!
I think that is O&D from LAX as a whole, not just UA.
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flyfresno
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:33 am

strfyr51 wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
With Kirby's focus being domestic flying, I would expect them to beef up that first at LAX to give UA a more appealing and pertinent schedule offering.

Top 10 O&Ds from LAX are:
NYC, SFO, CHI, SEA, DC, DFW, HNL, LAS, BOS, MIA/FLL, there is good room for them to grow frequency and even add new market such as MIA.
The next 10 top markets are DEN, ATL, SJC, OAK, PHX, MCO, IAH PDX, PHL, MSP.


I'm surprised SMF isn't in the second 10.



How did you manage to include Oakland when we don't fly there anymore?? And you left out SMF?? That's a surprise!!


I was saying second 10 as a whole among all airlines...I thought SMF-LAX was one of the top 50 markets in the US, but maybe that's SMF-SoCal as a whole. UA's LAX-SMF service is almost an afterthough...FAT has the same number of seats to LAX on UA that SMF does. I doubt either would make top 20 from there if it was just about UA.
 
Justapax
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:56 am

flyfresno wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
flyfresno wrote:

I'm surprised SMF isn't in the second 10.



How did you manage to include Oakland when we don't fly there anymore?? And you left out SMF?? That's a surprise!!


I was saying second 10 as a whole among all airlines...I thought SMF-LAX was one of the top 50 markets in the US, but maybe that's SMF-SoCal as a whole. UA's LAX-SMF service is almost an afterthough...FAT has the same number of seats to LAX on UA that SMF does. I doubt either would make top 20 from there if it was just about UA.


SMF-LAX is one of those markets that UA seems to have given up on. 3 flights a day, 2 on CR2s. Delta, American and Southwest do a lot better than that. I guess upgrading 1 of the 3 CR2s to an E175 is "competing."
 
flyguy84
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:13 am

Justapax wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:


How did you manage to include Oakland when we don't fly there anymore?? And you left out SMF?? That's a surprise!!


I was saying second 10 as a whole among all airlines...I thought SMF-LAX was one of the top 50 markets in the US, but maybe that's SMF-SoCal as a whole. UA's LAX-SMF service is almost an afterthough...FAT has the same number of seats to LAX on UA that SMF does. I doubt either would make top 20 from there if it was just about UA.


SMF-LAX is one of those markets that UA seems to have given up on. 3 flights a day, 2 on CR2s. Delta, American and Southwest do a lot better than that. I guess upgrading 1 of the 3 CR2s to an E175 is "competing."

Kirby also said it’s going to take time to undo the damage of the past 7-8 years. It can’t be done overnight.
SFO
 
lavalampluva
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:21 am

This should be interesting. Has UA been dropping flights out of LAX for a while now?
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
commavia
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:31 pm

LAXintl wrote:
o Says UA most profitable of majors @ LAX with "double-digit margins". Says AA/DL "basically breakeven"
o More flying coming to LAX in 2018. Will back fill lost flying - example given was UAX to Medford. Also more Hawaii


Ha, so translation (half-kidding):

"We're making money and they're break even, so we're going to keep dumping more seats into this already-saturated market until we're breakeven, too!"

:lol:

LAXintl wrote:
o Facility limitations will constrain growth in short-term
o Longer term says T9 is happening and United will get it


That will be interesting to watch given competitors' moves for more gates as well.

In general - this entire thing will be fascinating to watch, and one thing is for sure: LA basin travelers will be the beneficiaries of these five airlines all falling all over each other to add capacity into LAX.
 
tphuang
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:52 pm

I find this interesting. Ua is clearly far and away the most profitable of the legacies in NYC. Now Kirby also says it is the most profitable by quite a bit in lax. How is it still getting yield that is so much lower than delta overall? I am sure delta runs up the score in its fortress hubs, but united also has Houston, sfo and Denver.
 
flyfresno
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:28 pm

LAXintl wrote:
At LAX employee townhall event last week Kirby had a few things to say

o Says UA most profitable of majors @ LAX with "double-digit margins". Says AA/DL "basically breakeven"


This seems very unlikely.
 
ldvaviation
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:28 pm

commavia wrote:

Ha, so translation (half-kidding):

"We're making money and they're break even, so we're going to keep dumping more seats into this already-saturated market until we're breakeven, too!"



Kirby seems to be picking fights everywhere at the expense of RASM. No kidding.

LAXintl wrote:
o Facility limitations will constrain growth in short-term
o Longer term says T9 is happening and United will get it


Remember he would tell AA employees all sorts of things at LAX town hall meetings too. But he was outsmarted by Delta and never delivered.
 
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:37 pm

tphuang wrote:
I find this interesting. Ua is clearly far and away the most profitable of the legacies in NYC. Now Kirby also says it is the most profitable by quite a bit in lax. How is it still getting yield that is so much lower than delta overall? I am sure delta runs up the score in its fortress hubs, but united also has Houston, sfo and Denver.


I suspect AA and DL are driving similar double-digit margins at fortress hubs of ATL, DFW, CLT, etc. where they also have massive throughput. I don't doubt United's profitability at LAX, but the volume of seats isn't enough to close the gap when, structurally, UA has certain disadvantages to AA and DL. United's largest hubs, comparatively, are smaller and/or face greater competition/yield pressure than their analogues at AA/DL.
 
incitatus
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:49 pm

SESGDL wrote:

All the more reason for UA to try to hit back at AA. While UA's dominance over the Pacific is not contested by AA's recent buildup at LAX, this is United's chance to stop any further growth for AA. LAX is AA's only shot at a West Coast TPAC hub, while both DL and UA have two (albeit of smaller scale for both DL and UA at LAX compared to SEA and SFO, respectively). If AA fails with its LAX efforts, AA will be forced to accept being a bit player in the market. Though seemingly successful from the outside, AA is very likely losing money at LAX over the Pacific. One needs to only look at the hyper-competitive market and rock bottom fares; although from a network perspective it's simply too important for AA to give up. UA has much less to lose given its overwhelming dominance as a result of its stellar hub network and the SFO TPAC superhub. UA refocusing on LAX could really make things difficult for AA.

Jeremy


Therein lies the problem for UA and DL at LAX: Any buildup they do at LAX is at the expense of their other hubs in SFO and SEA. AA has no such issue.

As far as stopping any further growth from AA, I find that really unlikely and I would point to DL at NY. In general, for large corporations, once a strategic direction has been set, there is very little competitors can do to stop it. Same for DL at SEA. Why is UA all excited about LAX again? Is it just to slow down competitors growth or they see a market opportunity? If it is the former, UA is going to burn resources with very little to show for in the end.
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:27 pm

incitatus wrote:


Therein lies the problem for UA and DL at LAX: Any buildup they do at LAX is at the expense of their other hubs in SFO and SEA. AA has no such issue.

Why is UA all excited about LAX again? Is it just to slow down competitors growth or they see a market opportunity?


UA might see LAX as more of an O&D centric market. Let's face it, except for Hawaii, LAX is geographically lacking as a US domestic hub. SFO is at least somewhat more ideally located for funneling N-S traffic throughout CA. The fact that any LAX additions by UA have not resulted in cuts at SFO but only complimented them is a sign that they can operate in both markets just fine.

Additionally, with the recent announcement of more Hawaii flights out of DEN, this will allow even more LAX-Hawaii seats to be available for locals and make LAX less dependent on connecting traffic.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:01 pm

flyfresno wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
At LAX employee townhall event last week Kirby had a few things to say

o Says UA most profitable of majors @ LAX with "double-digit margins". Says AA/DL "basically breakeven"


This seems very unlikely.


Seems unlikely based on which data you’re using?
 
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LAXintl
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:55 pm

Flight Global picked up the news

United plans more flights at Los Angeles
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... es-441829/
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commavia
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:17 pm

incitatus wrote:
As far as stopping any further growth from AA, I find that really unlikely and I would point to DL at NY. In general, for large corporations, once a strategic direction has been set, there is very little competitors can do to stop it. Same for DL at SEA. Why is UA all excited about LAX again? Is it just to slow down competitors growth or they see a market opportunity? If it is the former, UA is going to burn resources with very little to show for in the end.


Agreed. I don't think AA is going anywhere at LAX, regardless of what United does - and I'm quite confident that Scott Kirby, for obvious reasons, knows that full well. So I doubt that he is banking on that in any way as part of his strategy for the airport. The only question, to me, is how much yield and profit dilution United is willing to tolerate - because I don't see any other plausible and realistic outcome for United, or any other airline, if United wants to add even more capacity on top of what AA, Delta and Southwest are already adding.
 
ldvaviation
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:29 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Flight Global picked up the news

United plans more flights at Los Angeles
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... es-441829/


From the Flight Global article:

"We're going to wind up getting T9," says Kirby on growth opportunities at LAX. However, he does not provide specifics on the proposed terminal that would be located across Sepulveda Boulevard from the existing terminal complex.

Rough translation: There is no agreement in principle with LAWA. We are just waiting for everything to fall into place. I did the same thing when I was at AA and watched Delta outsmart me.
 
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OA412
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:46 pm

commavia wrote:
Agreed. I don't think AA is going anywhere at LAX, regardless of what United does - and I'm quite confident that Scott Kirby, for obvious reasons, knows that full well. So I doubt that he is banking on that in any way as part of his strategy for the airport. The only question, to me, is how much yield and profit dilution United is willing to tolerate - because I don't see any other plausible and realistic outcome for United, or any other airline, if United wants to add even more capacity on top of what AA, Delta and Southwest are already adding.

You're right, AA's not going anywhere because LAX is their "only shot" at a West Coast-Asia hub. Without it, they're an also-ran to Asia. What I find most interesting/perplexing about UA's sudden interest in rebuilding/reclaiming LAX, is the hub they already have up the road. It seems to me the smarter thing would be to pour even more resources into SFO where they're the dominant airline, rather than fighting it out at LAX with two other airlines also determined to build up that gateway (not to mention WN and AS).
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aaway
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:57 pm

[quote="ldvaviation] "We're going to wind up getting T9," says Kirby on growth opportunities at LAX. However, he does not provide specifics on the proposed terminal that would be located across Sepulveda Boulevard from the existing terminal complex.

Rough translation: There is no agreement in principle with LAWA. We are just waiting for everything to fall into place. I did the same thing when I was at AA and watched Delta outsmart me.[/quote]

Frankly, I have little doubt that UA will "get" a T-9. I'm more interested in how many alliance partners come under that roof. The desire for more space is more about regaining some semblance of parity with facilities (particularly in regard to partner proximity) than about massive, organic growth.

Interesting that Kirby (and Flightglobal) mention Pacific N.W. destinations as (potential) targets. I can see it, though. The QX disruptions and effective dissolution of the AA-AS relationship creates an opportunity. UA typically maintains a strong #2 market presence in those small & mid-sized PNW markets.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
aaway
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:07 pm

OA412 wrote:
What I find most interesting/perplexing about UA's sudden interest in rebuilding/reclaiming LAX, is the hub they already have up the road. It seems to me the smarter thing would be to pour even more resources into SFO where they're the dominant airline....


From my experience (having worked in sales for UA years ago) UA typically shows interest in/expands LAX once it begins to bump up against some sort of capacity constraint at SFO.

Despite SFOs current and ongoing airside constraints, I know there are gate expansion plans for the G concourse, but those are still away off.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
commavia
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Re: UA Plans LAX Push in Comeback Effort

Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:11 pm

OA412 wrote:
You're right, AA's not going anywhere because LAX is their "only shot" at a West Coast-Asia hub. Without it, they're an also-ran to Asia.


Yep. AA executives have pretty much said as much. AA must succeed at LAX because of its broader strategic importance for AA's network - domestically, and especially internationally, across the Pacific. Neither Delta or United "need" LAX to quite the same extent.

OA412 wrote:
What I find most interesting/perplexing about UA's sudden interest in rebuilding/reclaiming LAX, is the hub they already have up the road. It seems to me the smarter thing would be to pour even more resources into SFO where they're the dominant airline, rather than fighting it out at LAX with two other airlines also determined to build up that gateway (not to mention WN and AS).


It is indeed fascinating to watch, particularly given that United appears intent on fighting a two-front war where it's at arguably a disadvantaged position in one "battle" (LAX) and in an excellent position but facing arguably its strongest opponent in decades in another "battle" (SFO). The dichotomy of how United is approaching the dual poles of SFO and LAX in California, versus its largest network rivals both focusing solely on LAX, will be very interesting to watch play out.

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