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UPS Pilot
Topic Author
Posts: 901
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:17 pm

Read This About American Airlines

Wed Aug 18, 1999 12:08 pm


American Airlines Bans Flightsim Use Of Logos
FlightSim.Com Press Release
August 16, 1999
In a letter dated July 29, 1999, American Airlines legal representative Gardere & Wynne, L.L.P. of Dallas Texas has notified FlightSim.Com that all visual representations of their trademark and service mark must be removed from the www.flightsim.com Web site.

According to this letter, unauthorized use of their Marks "creates an incorrect perception that there is an association...between you and American Airlines" and further demands the immediate removal of the Marks from the Internet site. FlightSim.Com was given until August 16 to comply and respond to the demands in the letter and has now done so, with all American Airlines related material having been removed from the site.

FlightSim.Com president Nels Anderson had a lengthy phone conversation with the lawyer in an attempt to resolve and clarify the issue. During this conversation it became clear that American Airlines is making a concerted attempt to remove all unauthorized use of their logos everywhere on the Internet. They were quit familiar with flightsim activities and made it clear that flightsim use of their logo, including the repainting of flightsim aircraft, was not allowed. The ban includes logos currently in use, historic logos and logos of their subsidiary American Eagle.

The lawyers involved are in the process of identifying and contacting other sites so other flightsim sites that have American Airlines planes or photos online should expect to be contacted.

The law firm involved is not authorized by American Airlines to negotiate, they simply are hired to seek and stop unauthorized use of American Airlines logos. In an effort to solve this problem for the flightsim community, FlightSim.Com contacted American Airlines' licensing agent to see if it was possible to obtain a license to use American Airlines logos. American does license their logos to other companies, however a commercial software publisher has already obtained an exclusive license to American's logos for flightsim use for an upcoming product. Because of this exclusive agreement the licensing agent was not able to offer any legal way to use American's logos for the general flightsim community. Neither the lawyer nor the licensing agent would name the commercial software publisher involved. The licensing agent informed FlightSim.Com that he would contact the software publisher and suggest that they contact us about this issue, but so far no contact has been received.



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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright 1999 by FlightSim.Com.
Permission to publish this press release is hereby granted to other flightsim related Web sites.
 
User avatar
VIflyer
Posts: 464
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 2:29 pm

RE: Read This About American Airlines

Wed Aug 18, 1999 2:28 pm

All I have to say is...Boooo to big business and lawyers, anything for the almighty dollar. I guess I should get all my now "bootleg" AA painted sim aircraft now.
 
pandora
Posts: 393
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:32 am

That Really Stinks...

Wed Aug 18, 1999 2:31 pm

This just shows that AA is really stingy. I also better download all AA bootleg FSFS planes right now.
 
Guest

Download Frenzy!

Wed Aug 18, 1999 2:45 pm

Well, that really bites the big one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You can bet as more people hear about this there will be an AA aircraft download frenzy, wait and see! And I will be part of it. Thank you for letting us know. I am now going to every FS aircraft site I know and download as many AA planes as I can.  

DL 604

P.S. What about American Virtual Airlines, what are they going to do???
 
Guest

Here's A Great Link

Wed Aug 18, 1999 3:33 pm

OK,
If you want the most detailed, most realistic American Airlines aircraft for Flight Simulator, visit this page:

http://avsim.colo.cais.net/cgi-bin/database/db.cgi?db=pfree&uid=default&ID=&Aircraft=---&Airline=American+Airlines&AFX=---&Paint=---&Date=&Image=&File=&Size=&Category=---&Description=&keyword=&mh=&sb=---&so=ascend&view_records=View+Records

Copy the WHOLE link. I know it's long, but this link takes you to all of Project Freeware's American Airlines aircraft. These guys have the BEST aircraft.  
CYA

DL 604
 
Guest

RE: That Really Stinks...

Wed Aug 18, 1999 4:01 pm

Any business, whether big or small has every right to protect their copyrighted name and logo as they please. That's what copyright means.

NAL757
 
kaitak
Posts: 10109
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Read This About American Airlines

Wed Aug 18, 1999 8:52 pm

While I can understand some logic in the view on simulation software, (i.e. if a plane carrying an AAL logo were crashed and seen publicly as doing so), one could understand some concern, BUT
PHOTOS?
Now this is going into very difficult waters. I don't see how it's going to work without have very adverse consequences. After all, AAL has a nice livery and interesting aircraft; why SHOULD they object to people liking it.
Are we going to see AAL going into EL A(A!)L territory and stop people taking photos of their aircraft?
Gotta think this through guys, or it will come back at you like the provebial custard pie!
 
UPS Pilot
Topic Author
Posts: 901
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:17 pm

RE: Read This About American Airlines

Wed Aug 18, 1999 10:06 pm

The thing is it just isn't applying to flight Simulator AA planes. They are going after photos of the AA logo too. Anything that doesn't have the expressed written consent of American Airlines will have to be removed. As far as copyrights go. Yes that is why we have copyrights so nobody can benefit from sombody else's creation. The thing American is missing here is they are the ones benefiting from this in free advertising. Every picture on the web of American makes them more recognizable. I think it's a stupid move on their part. If they come after Airliners.net which has over 1000 Pics of American and American eagle that would be ridiculous. What do you think?
 
administrator
Posts: 2702
Joined: Mon May 17, 1999 5:11 am

RE: Read This About American Airlines

Wed Aug 18, 1999 10:54 pm

People,

I appreciate your concern but you really don't have to worry. AA have no legal rights to demand that I remove any of the photos from Airliners.net nor have they made any such requests.

Johan
 
Al319
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 1999 9:05 am

I Bet...

Wed Aug 18, 1999 11:23 pm

I bet some other Airline is going to try & pull the same ridiculous stunt that AA is pulling right now.
 
Guest

RE: Administrator-That's A Relief!

Thu Aug 19, 1999 12:28 am

Thanks for putting that word in there.   Well, at least we can still see pictures of AA here. As for the virtual aircraft of AA, I downloaded all I could last night.   Tell me, Johan, what if AA does contact you about the pictures on airliners.net? What would you say to them?

DL 604
 
da Fwog
Posts: 845
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 1999 5:25 am

Copyrights Etc.

Thu Aug 19, 1999 5:34 am

There's a few ineteresting points to make here. Firstly, if I take a photograph of an AA aircraft, *I* own the copyright to that picture, *not* AA. However, AA still own the rights to the name and the logo. That doesn't mean that they can stop me from showing the picture - otherwise you'd never see pictures of air crashes on the news, because the lawyers would be on the phone to the news agencies before the wreckage had stopped burning...

On the other hand, if I design an aircraft for FS98 with an AA logo on the tail, AA can fairly reasonably argue that I have COPIED their logo... which I have.

Finally, I don't know about the rest of the world, but if AA fly their planes to the UK, they can't stop me from photographing them. On the other hand, if I go to the airport and stand on airport property, the *airport* can stop me from photographing the aircraft. If I stand the other side of the boundary though, not on airport land, there's nothing they can do. Not legally, anyway.
 
Guest

RE: Copyrights Etc.

Thu Aug 19, 1999 8:16 am

OK, but what if I create a painting of an AA aircraft (actually I was going to do Reno Air, but same difference)? It is a representation of a real thing, and in a sense I have copied their trademark.

And what if I take a picture of the painting and posting on my website?

Just wondering.
 
Guest

RE: Read This About American Airlines

Thu Aug 19, 1999 11:30 am

they seem to be on a rampage, i know of a fellow who makes airliners decal for plastic models and he got the same letters and warnings also, about AA logos and trademarks........
 
Guest

RE: Read This About American Airlines

Thu Aug 19, 1999 3:33 pm

You can thank the lawyers and our "sue them for everything they got" society for this. I work for AA as an aircraft technician and when I take pictures I am told not to post them on the web or on any other use for personal gain. As far as this website is concerned it is linked directly from AA employees website.
It has gotten so bad that even major league baseball players are not allowed to toss balls to fans anymore.
 
Delta737
Posts: 469
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 11:23 am

Delta's Logos

Fri Aug 20, 1999 12:11 am

If you've noticed, whenever you look at an add with airline logo t-shirts, models, books, or whatever, you rarely see a Delta jet. Reason being is that whenever the logo is used, Delta's lawyers want royalties.
 
Guest

RE: Delta Sponsors FS Aircraft!

Fri Aug 20, 1999 1:19 am

I have heard that Delta sponsors virtual aircraft. What I mean is, they sometimes give money to help buy webspace for Delta-related things, including FS aircraft. Delta helped Virtual Delta Airlines get started. This VA also has Delta employees flying for them. How do I know? I have e-mail contact with the CEO of VDA. I don't think Delta will hoard it's logo anytime soon.   One of the many reasons I like Delta.
Well, we can kiss AA good bye. Why go after model makers too? I have an AA DC-10 model. I will now put it away knowing I'll never get another one if it gets broke!!

Too bad we will never see these abound on the internet again.  

[img=www.avsim.com/mike/pfree/images/aa_763.gif]

DL 604
 
LanceR
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:43 pm

Defiance Where Defiance Is Needed!

Fri Aug 20, 1999 4:34 am


I have a plan. We not only keep taking pictures, publishing flightsim files about it, we also make a protest on the web about it. Expose the bulls--t they are pulling. Are you aware that according to the law, making a FSModel is not a copyright violation as long as you don't make the models for MONETARY VALUE? As long as there's not a price tag on it, there's not a thing they can do. Additionally, take all the AA flightsim files, and publish them rampant on the web, make as many sites as possible with these logos on them. They can try to sue them with their schiesters (lawyers/crooks), but they'll have difficulty stopping thousands of people from publishing models, and quickly sending them to thousands of other websites. Keep on making the sites, copying the material, faster than they can stop them. Remember, Defiance where Defiance is Needed!

-Lance

 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Read This About American Airlines

Fri Aug 20, 1999 5:49 am

So I can't design an aircraft with the AA logo on the tail because it would be copying the logo.

Does this mean that if I go and paint a picture of an airplane with the AA logo I am violating their copyright???

Would somebody point out the difference.
 
Denny
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 4:11 am

RE: Defiance Where Defiance Is Needed!

Fri Aug 20, 1999 6:59 am

There already is a protest site active and since being put up *yesterday* has already gotten almost 3000 hits. Most of the people (including myself) seem to have posted. The URL is http://shiyangtech.hypermart.net/antiaa/

Go and make our voices heard!

Denny

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