Northwest1988
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Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:11 am

Hello all,

So HXD airport recently began lengthening its runway to 5,000 feet as well as widening the space between the runway and taxiway on the general aviation side. Us airways now American Eagle is currently the only airline flying to the island using Dash 8s. Piedmont recently began flying the ERJ-145 as well. Do you think it's safe to say they are paving the way for regional jets? The local residents have never been a fan of the idea of jets.

Almost every airline has served the airport in the past. Most recently Delta until the retirement of the Saabs as well as Continental Express with the Beech 1900 and American Eagle back in the ATR days. With a larger runway do you think other carriers will come back? It's always been a popular destination. I'm sure a lot of people would like to avoid the drive from SAV... even though it's not terribly long.

Thank you all!
 
DLPMMM
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:21 am

When did AA/Piedmont start flying ERJs into HHI?

I haven't seen anything but DH-8-100s overhead.

I just drive to SAV, as the flights to HHI are just too undependable.
 
Northwest1988
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:30 am

It's still only Dash 8s flying to the island. Don't think anything bigger will come along until the runway is finished. I hear that even on the dash 8-100 the flights are often payload restricted. Will be interesting to see what happens if the jets do make their way there after the Dash 8s are retired.
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:34 am

DL served it with ATRs from ATL, where on earth would AA have flown to with theirs? Are you thinking of SAV, which did see MIA service on ATRs for a while?

The RJs are supposedly quieter than the DH8s, so that NIMBY argument has been batted down pretty much. Besides CLT, I could see DL returning with RJ service to ATL maybe, HHH is too small for service to any other hub I think.

Some good info and reader comments are here - http://www.islandpacket.com/news/busine ... 17475.html
 
Northwest1988
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:40 am

American Eagle served HHI with ATRs with service to RDU. It was back in the days of Americans Raleigh hub. It was throughout the early and mid 1990s.
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:51 am

wow RDU ATL and CLT simultaneously then. Won't see that again. My hunch is that the runway takes so long that AA drops service and maybe comes back when it's RJ ready. Per the article they are still working the design until March and construction will take 18 months (at least).
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:04 am

Hilton Head Island IATA code is HHH. Could mods please change the title?
 
sagechan
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:09 am

Piedmont operates both the 100 & 300 Into HHH actually. Though it looks like they only authorize the 300 to sale to 30 seats, 18 seat hit is pretty big.
717, 733, 734, 738, 744, 752, 763, 772, 77W, 789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A359, MD88, CRJ, CR7, CR9, DH1, DH2, DH3, S340, ER4, E170, E175, E190/CO, NW, US, AC, NH, AA, UA, DL, WN, WS, SK, VY, LA, QF, AR, AV, MH, KA
 
Northwest1988
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:26 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
Hilton Head Island IATA code is HHH. Could mods please change the title?


My mistake.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:44 am

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
wow RDU ATL and CLT simultaneously then. Won't see that again. My hunch is that the runway takes so long that AA drops service and maybe comes back when it's RJ ready. Per the article they are still working the design until March and construction will take 18 months (at least).


I don't think the DL service was until sometime in the 2000s, shortly after the NW merger (when they flew Saabs to ATL).
 
Northwest1988
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:00 am

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
wow RDU ATL and CLT simultaneously then. Won't see that again. My hunch is that the runway takes so long that AA drops service and maybe comes back when it's RJ ready. Per the article they are still working the design until March and construction will take 18 months (at least).


I don't think the DL service was until sometime in the 2000s, shortly after the NW merger (when they flew Saabs to ATL).


Yes it was not until the mid 2000s that DL began service, but it was before the NW merger using the ATR-72. They discontinued the route when the ATRs were retired and then restarted when they had the saabs.
 
drdisque
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:55 am

The saabs were usually weight restricted since they weren't as good on the short field (especially on hot days) and Delta was not too fond of the Saab fleet in general and in particular, having a small Saab base at ATL, so that went away pretty quickly.

Once the runway extension is completed. I can see DL coming back with a seasonal E-175 or CRJ-700 and possibly AA adding seasonal service to DCA or LGA (maybe Saturday only).

I don't see UA as thinking it will be worth their while as the flight to EWR or ORD is quite a bit longer and there's a good chance the E-170 would still be weight restricted.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:05 am

drdisque wrote:
The saabs were usually weight restricted since they weren't as good on the short field (especially on hot days) and Delta was not too fond of the Saab fleet in general and in particular, having a small Saab base at ATL, so that went away pretty quickly.

Once the runway extension is completed. I can see DL coming back with a seasonal E-175 or CRJ-700 and possibly AA adding seasonal service to DCA or LGA (maybe Saturday only).

I don't see UA as thinking it will be worth their while as the flight to EWR or ORD is quite a bit longer and there's a good chance the E-170 would still be weight restricted.


Interesting, I recall DL flying into HHH, and as SAV was an airport I frequently flew into I recall at least UA saying "Welcome to Savannah/Hilton Head". I suppose it was both for them.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
bhmdiversion
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:04 am

There is a county/city covenant that is in place on why a CRJ/ERJ couldn't fly into HHH. The covenant is the tree height at the end of runway 3 that doesn't meet the climb gradient for these aircraft unless they are severely restricted. Business jets are ok, however a 50k+ pound RJ wouldn't meet that criteria.
 
flyjoe
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:23 pm

Barring a prop replacement at Piedmont or another American Eagle carrier, going to HH on AA will end up through Savannah. I wouldn't be surprised to see Via Air flying into HHH one day with the EMB-120, with their buildup in Charlotte over the last year or two.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:49 pm

flyjoe wrote:
Barring a prop replacement at Piedmont or another American Eagle carrier, going to HH on AA will end up through Savannah. I wouldn't be surprised to see Via Air flying into HHH one day with the EMB-120, with their buildup in Charlotte over the last year or two.


Has the 120 served HHH before? I assume it would have been EV to ATL if it happened.
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Cubsrule
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:50 pm

bhmdiversion wrote:
There is a county/city covenant that is in place on why a CRJ/ERJ couldn't fly into HHH. The covenant is the tree height at the end of runway 3 that doesn't meet the climb gradient for these aircraft unless they are severely restricted. Business jets are ok, however a 50k+ pound RJ wouldn't meet that criteria.


At risk of being crass, did Matthew affect the tree height? The island lost a ton of trees.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:57 pm

bhmdiversion wrote:
There is a county/city covenant that is in place on why a CRJ/ERJ couldn't fly into HHH. The covenant is the tree height at the end of runway 3 that doesn't meet the climb gradient for these aircraft unless they are severely restricted. Business jets are ok, however a 50k+ pound RJ wouldn't meet that criteria.


they've been cutting trees back over the past few years - I've never heard anything about a covenant and I've followed this as a local resident since 2001. Do you think the RJ is still a no go even with the 5000 ft. runway? Fuel requirements to ATL/CLT can't be that great.

It's a shame that the Q400 is not used by DL or AA that to me is the best equipment for HHH.

Tree cutting info here - http://www.islandpacket.com/news/busine ... 83652.html
Last edited by DaufuskieGuy on Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
commavia
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:02 pm

flyjoe wrote:
Barring a prop replacement at Piedmont or another American Eagle carrier, going to HH on AA will end up through Savannah. I wouldn't be surprised to see Via Air flying into HHH one day with the EMB-120, with their buildup in Charlotte over the last year or two.


Yes.

There are multiple markets currently receiving service from a Piedmont DH1/DH3 that will likely see their AA service eliminated altogether with the transition to RJs, either for operational and/or economic reasons, and/or due to proximity to nearby, alternative, airports.

Specifically, the Piedmont DH1/DH3 markets I could easily see losing AA service altogether:
* HHH - distinct/generally more specialized/premium market, but <1 hr to SAV plus runway issue
* HTS - 1 hr from CRW
* IPT - 1 hr from SCE

The Piedmont DH1/DH3 markets I think are "on the bubble," and at risk of losing AA service altogether:
* EWN - 1 hr to from OAJ and PGV
* HVN - large market, but <1 hr from multiple airports
* SBY - isolated from other airports, serves all of Delmarva and Piedmont's current HQ, but quite a small market
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:42 pm

commavia wrote:

The Piedmont DH1/DH3 markets I think are "on the bubble," and at risk of losing AA service altogether:
* EWN - 1 hr to from OAJ and PGV
* HVN - large market, but <1 hr from multiple airports
* SBY - isolated from other airports, serves all of Delmarva and Piedmont's current HQ, but quite a small market


EWN will be served 5x/day from CLT this summer and only 2 flights are on the Dash, with 2 others being on CR7 equipment. It's served 5x/day in winter, still with only 2 flights on the Dash. It seems even with elimination of the Dash fleet EWN would be okay with consolidation to an all-jet fleet.

Even with OAJ so close, EWN has a decent sized catchment area and serves MCAS Cherry Point, and its boardings are double what PGV does (mostly because PGV is closer to RDU). I would think PGV (which, unlike EWN, is only served by AA) would be more at risk of losing service entirely.
 
commavia
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:53 pm

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
EWN will be served 5x/day from CLT this summer and only 2 flights are on the Dash, with 2 others being on CR7 equipment. It's served 5x/day in winter, still with only 2 flights on the Dash. It seems even with elimination of the Dash fleet EWN would be okay with consolidation to an all-jet fleet.

Even with OAJ so close, EWN has a decent sized catchment area and serves MCAS Cherry Point, and its boardings are double what PGV does (mostly because PGV is closer to RDU). I would think PGV (which, unlike EWN, is only served by AA) would be more at risk of losing service entirely.


Interesting insight - thank you. Given their relatively proximity, I could see the two markets being consolidated down to one - either EWN or PGV. Given the unique characteristics of EWN, maybe that would be the "winner."
 
USAirALB
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:05 pm

commavia wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
EWN will be served 5x/day from CLT this summer and only 2 flights are on the Dash, with 2 others being on CR7 equipment. It's served 5x/day in winter, still with only 2 flights on the Dash. It seems even with elimination of the Dash fleet EWN would be okay with consolidation to an all-jet fleet.

Even with OAJ so close, EWN has a decent sized catchment area and serves MCAS Cherry Point, and its boardings are double what PGV does (mostly because PGV is closer to RDU). I would think PGV (which, unlike EWN, is only served by AA) would be more at risk of losing service entirely.


Interesting insight - thank you. Given their relatively proximity, I could see the two markets being consolidated down to one - either EWN or PGV. Given the unique characteristics of EWN, maybe that would be the "winner."


Not trying to detour this thread...

I would say that PGV is safe as well. As of right now there are 3 daily flights on PGV-CLT, and 2 out of the 3 flights are on CRJs. PGV serves East Carolina University, which is the 3rd largest university in the state at almost 30,000 students.
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commavia
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:21 pm

USAirALB wrote:
I would say that PGV is safe as well. As of right now there are 3 daily flights on PGV-CLT, and 2 out of the 3 flights are on CRJs. PGV serves East Carolina University, which is the 3rd largest university in the state at almost 30,000 students.


Maybe. I think all of this needs to be viewed, though, in the context of the changing composition of AA's regional fleet. AA's 50-seat fleet is forecast to be nearly 25% smaller at the end of this year than last year, and no doubt will shrink further in 2018. As I've said previously, I personally would not be at all surprised if, within the near future, AA's entire 50-seat fleet was comprised entirely of the Envoy/Piedmont ERJ145s and nothing else. So in that context, any market getting flights from 50-seat RJs has to support the opportunity cost of what will undoubtedly become a relatively scarce resource (small jets), not to mention obviously the higher direct operating costs of an RJ vs a prop. Any or all of the markets I listed may well be able to support 50-seat flying going forward once the DH1/DH3 fleet is fully gone. But I do think that when the DH1/DH3 fleet is gone, and as the remaining small jet fleet continues to shrink steadily over the next 12-24 months, difficult choices will have to be made in terms of capacity allocation.

If, hypothetically, things shake out as theorized - AA's entire 50-seat fleet is just the Envoy/Piedmont ERJ145s, spread roughly evenly between DFW, ORD, CLT and PHL, plus maybe a few in and out of MIA, that is almost by definition going to require some capacity curtailment in some places. Some of the existing 50-seat flying will obviously be upgauged to 2-class RJs. But for DH1/DH3 markets in particular that cannot support that, for economic and/or operational reasons, I think some will just see 50-seat jets at lower frequency, while others - like some of those I mentioned - may simply see AA end service altogether.
 
N126DL
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:15 pm

And those Dash-8s are weight restricted to about 23-25 pax. In the time it takes me to get to the island (45 mins) I can be in Pooler (35-40 mins) and have regional jet service on UA/AA and mainline service on DL, B6, G4, etc. Unless I lived on the island, I wouldn't see the appeal.

DLPMMM wrote:
When did AA/Piedmont start flying ERJs into HHI?

I haven't seen anything but DH-8-100s overhead.

I just drive to SAV, as the flights to HHI are just too undependable.
DH84 E135/145/175/190 CR2/7/9 A319/20/21 A332/3 D95 M80/83/88/90/95 73W/8/9 752/3 763/4 772/L
 
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mats
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:45 pm

I gave up on HHH.

Too many cancellations and long delays. The Dash-8s seem pretty darn tired, and they're quite noisy. I also dislike Concourse E at Charlotte.

If you're headed to Sea Pines or thereabouts, the drive from SAV is around 50 minutes. Form HHH, it's about 25 minutes.
Fares are usually the same, but I have found that rental cars are much cheaper out of SAV.

A taxi from HHH to Sea Pines is extortionate, and the taxis are allowed to make stops (I took this up with Beaufort County.) One can now take Uber from SAV to HHH if a car rental is an option.

Above all, SAV has lots of flights, many connection opportunities, and it's a nice facility (except for their TSA agents). It's worth driving just a little bit longer to get to a more reliable airport. Sure, I've had SAV delays and cancellations too, but these have been nowhere near as difficult as the HHH flights. There's just no point.

Prior to the legay US Airways monopoly, one at least had the option of taking a Delta Connection SAAB 340 to Atlanta. This provided additional connecting opportunities. Now one is restricted to Charlotte only. With my family travelling from the US West Coast, France, and Israel, SAV is much, much easier.
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:29 am

mats wrote:

If you're headed to Sea Pines or thereabouts, the drive from SAV is around 50 minutes. Form HHH, it's about 25 minutes.
.


If you could get from northern HH (HHH) to SAV in 25 minutes, then HHH would never have had commercial service. It's 43 miles, half of that on a 45/55 MPH road with roughly 15 stoplights. And there will be more stoplights coming as Bluffton continues to grow. And more back ups on 95 which is only 4 lanes as the country grows. So that actually helps the case for HHH flights hanging on, though as commavia and others well point out, it's far from certain.
 
kcrwflyer
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:50 am

flyjoe wrote:
Barring a prop replacement at Piedmont or another American Eagle carrier, going to HH on AA will end up through Savannah. I wouldn't be surprised to see Via Air flying into HHH one day with the EMB-120, with their buildup in Charlotte over the last year or two.


It doesn't work if you connect to nothing. Just like the EAS that connects to nothing wouldn't work without the heavy subsidies behind EAS. If I were HHH Id just cut down those damn trees and bring on the RJ's. I'd even bet the yields there are strong enough for them try some CR7.


commavia wrote:
Specifically, the Piedmont DH1/DH3 markets I could easily see losing AA service altogether:
* HHH - distinct/generally more specialized/premium market, but <1 hr to SAV plus runway issue
* HTS - 1 hr from CRW
* IPT - 1 hr from SCE

The Piedmont DH1/DH3 markets I think are "on the bubble," and at risk of losing AA service altogether:
* EWN - 1 hr to from OAJ and PGV
* HVN - large market, but <1 hr from multiple airports
* SBY - isolated from other airports, serves all of Delmarva and Piedmont's current HQ, but quite a small market


I'd keep an eye on markets that see all DH3. That is still a 50 seater, so I wouldn't think they'd send 50 seats somewhere they don't want to when they don't have to. DH3 routes should, IMO, get a shot on the RJ unless they are tanking. Cities that only have low freq on the DH1...*makes peace sign*
 
commavia
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:05 am

kcrwflyer wrote:
I'd keep an eye on markets that see all DH3. That is still a 50 seater, so I wouldn't think they'd send 50 seats somewhere they don't want to when they don't have to. DH3 routes should, IMO, get a shot on the RJ unless they are tanking. Cities that only have low freq on the DH1...*makes peace sign*


But again, the number of small (37-/50-seat) aircraft - prop or jet - is going down considerably. AA forecasts this aircraft segment to decrease by over 50 aircraft between the end of last year and the end of this year - it's more than one per week. Even with new 2-class RJ deliveries, it's still going to require cuts. Some existing 50-seat RJ markets will be upgauged to 2-class RJs (likely at somewhat reduced frequency, where practical), and in turn some existing DH1/DH3 markets will undoubtedly be upgauged to 50-seat RJs. But some existing DH1/DH3 missions - particularly those with operational limitations or those unable to handle the higher cost of jets - will almost certainly lose service altogether. In some cases - like, I suspect, PHL-AVP/ABE - this may take the form of markets losing service to one hub but seeing more capacity to other hubs. But in other cases - like some of those listed above, and as already announced, BGM and ELM - I think the market may simply lose all AA service altogether.
 
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wilcharl
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:11 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
Hilton Head Island IATA code is HHH. Could mods please change the title?


The ICAO code is KHXD along with the FAA Location Identifier... One of the few airports that has separate codes.

Anyways.... I always thought the NIMBYs did not want jet traffic or the runway increased due to "noise" (Though I would always laugh when a Spey powered Gulfscream came in or a JetStar)
 
Sightseer
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:27 am

mats wrote:
With my family travelling from the US West Coast, France, and Israel, SAV is much, much easier.


This. My family's been vacationing down there for a few decades, and everyone that flies uses SAV instead of HHH. While some of them have the convenience of nonstop flights to SAV, even those who have to connect regardless choose SAV instead.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:29 am

wilcharl wrote:
Anyways.... I always thought the NIMBYs did not want jet traffic or the runway increased due to "noise" (Though I would always laugh when a Spey powered Gulfscream came in or a JetStar)


Yep. I don't think it would matter a whole lot if they extended the runway to 12,000 feet and chopped down every tree on the island. Many of the NIMBYs would just as soon see HHH lose commercial air service entirely.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:57 am

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
mats wrote:

If you're headed to Sea Pines or thereabouts, the drive from SAV is around 50 minutes. Form HHH, it's about 25 minutes.
.


If you could get from northern HH (HHH) to SAV in 25 minutes, then HHH would never have had commercial service. It's 43 miles, half of that on a 45/55 MPH road with roughly 15 stoplights. And there will be more stoplights coming as Bluffton continues to grow. And more back ups on 95 which is only 4 lanes as the country grows. So that actually helps the case for HHH flights hanging on, though as commavia and others well point out, it's far from certain.


As compared to some other places along the coast, the drive from 95 to Hilton Head proper isn't that bad. We vacation on Amelia Island every year, and that drive feels about 3 times as long as the drive onto HH because of the lower speed limits and larger number of lights. 278 really moves pretty well in all but the highest peak seasons.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Flighty
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:40 am

Yeah, I have always had an interest in the HHH facility. I visited it. Do they still have the DCA-HHH saturday flights?

Are people agreed that the runway extension will allow ERJ-145 to serve HHH? Otherwise, we could be talking about the end of scheduled service there.
 
Northwest1988
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:11 am

Personally I don't think they would be expanding the runway if they didn't have every intention of keeping scheduled service or trying to attract new service. I could be wrong, but it's truly is a popular destination. And if they have sustained it this long, I don't think it's going anywhere. 278 is being built up very heavily just off the island. Hopefully all that indicates is growth at the airport as well!
 
bhmdiversion
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:27 am

Being involved with numerous conversations with HHH airport authority, county, and the airlines, once the ATR from ATL stopped serving HHH in 2007 only smaller planes were ever going to go in there. I appreciate Daufuskieguy's input with the tree trimming, and yes, Matthew did take a lot of trees down, but around the airport is HH Plantation, and numerous homeowners don't want to hear an increased level of traffic coming in there. Great to fly into if you have the chance, but SAV is easier and less restricted.
 
nc3rd
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:52 pm

Extending the runway to 5000 will have a huge impact on lessening the restrictions on weight as well as allowing RJs to service reliable. I'm curious to see if there will be a displaced threshold which could minimize the gain. Another big need to make reliable air service is approaches with lower mins. Only allowing you to get down to about 450 will not be low enough to often.
The views written above are mine and mine alone and do not represent any official information from any airline or company
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:39 pm

commavia wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I would say that PGV is safe as well. As of right now there are 3 daily flights on PGV-CLT, and 2 out of the 3 flights are on CRJs. PGV serves East Carolina University, which is the 3rd largest university in the state at almost 30,000 students.


Maybe. I think all of this needs to be viewed, though, in the context of the changing composition of AA's regional fleet. AA's 50-seat fleet is forecast to be nearly 25% smaller at the end of this year than last year, and no doubt will shrink further in 2018. As I've said previously, I personally would not be at all surprised if, within the near future, AA's entire 50-seat fleet was comprised entirely of the Envoy/Piedmont ERJ145s and nothing else. So in that context, any market getting flights from 50-seat RJs has to support the opportunity cost of what will undoubtedly become a relatively scarce resource (small jets), not to mention obviously the higher direct operating costs of an RJ vs a prop. Any or all of the markets I listed may well be able to support 50-seat flying going forward once the DH1/DH3 fleet is fully gone. But I do think that when the DH1/DH3 fleet is gone, and as the remaining small jet fleet continues to shrink steadily over the next 12-24 months, difficult choices will have to be made in terms of capacity allocation.

If, hypothetically, things shake out as theorized - AA's entire 50-seat fleet is just the Envoy/Piedmont ERJ145s, spread roughly evenly between DFW, ORD, CLT and PHL, plus maybe a few in and out of MIA, that is almost by definition going to require some capacity curtailment in some places. Some of the existing 50-seat flying will obviously be upgauged to 2-class RJs. But for DH1/DH3 markets in particular that cannot support that, for economic and/or operational reasons, I think some will just see 50-seat jets at lower frequency, while others - like some of those I mentioned - may simply see AA end service altogether.


Don't forget about the PSA 200's, I doubt they go away. They're some of the newest CR2's made.
From my cold, dead hands
 
commavia
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:55 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
Don't forget about the PSA 200's, I doubt they go away. They're some of the newest CR2's made.


At this point - it wouldn't surprise me. I was just hypothesizing that AA's entire 50-seat fleet would be consolidated down to just the 118 Envoy/Piedmont EMB145s, but it could be some mix with PSA CRJ200s, or something else. The broader point, though, is that either way the number of 50-seat aircraft - prop or jet, ERJ or CRJ - is going to be declining precipitously. This is, almost by definition, going to mean that cuts will have to be made in at least some small markets across the network - and, as said, I think at least some of those markets are fairly predictable.
 
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wilcharl
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:57 pm

My gut and just my thought as someone that has vacationed at Hilton Head annually since 1982, and flown there either to HXD/HHH or SAV every year since 2002:

1) The flights tend to go out full from HIlton Head. Full of Golf Clubs, Full of people with $$$$ and Full of people who don't want to drive to SAV
2) Many times in the summer, the flight is weight restricted, oversold, unreliable but still people take it
3) The same NIMBYs that don't want the noisy jets will be the same ones that will all the sudden have a change of tune if Piedmont stopped flying the Dash-Late into there
 
Flighty
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:48 pm

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
commavia wrote:

The Piedmont DH1/DH3 markets I think are "on the bubble," and at risk of losing AA service altogether:
* EWN - 1 hr to from OAJ and PGV
* HVN - large market, but <1 hr from multiple airports
* SBY - isolated from other airports, serves all of Delmarva and Piedmont's current HQ, but quite a small market


EWN will be served 5x/day from CLT this summer and only 2 flights are on the Dash, with 2 others being on CR7 equipment. It's served 5x/day in winter, still with only 2 flights on the Dash. It seems even with elimination of the Dash fleet EWN would be okay with consolidation to an all-jet fleet.

Even with OAJ so close, EWN has a decent sized catchment area and serves MCAS Cherry Point, and its boardings are double what PGV does (mostly because PGV is closer to RDU). I would think PGV (which, unlike EWN, is only served by AA) would be more at risk of losing service entirely.


Yes, EWN is a pretty strong market, and it will be served. HVN ought to be too. SBY, honestly, I have doubts.
 
slider
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:14 pm

wilcharl wrote:
My gut and just my thought as someone that has vacationed at Hilton Head annually since 1982, and flown there either to HXD/HHH or SAV every year since 2002:

1) The flights tend to go out full from HIlton Head. Full of Golf Clubs, Full of people with $$$$ and Full of people who don't want to drive to SAV
2) Many times in the summer, the flight is weight restricted, oversold, unreliable but still people take it
3) The same NIMBYs that don't want the noisy jets will be the same ones that will all the sudden have a change of tune if Piedmont stopped flying the Dash-Late into there


Totally agree. HHH has no need for scheduled commercial service, given the proximity to SAV. It's ridiculous in fact.

SAV has a good catchment and that deliberately includes HH, hence why they even changed the name of the airport and how they market it--to have that bigger draw, especially given the growth there and the focus on the golf and leisure economy. I love flying into SAV, so easy, rental cars out the back door, piece of cake. And easy quick hop to HHI.

Your point about weight restrictions and golf bags is a salient one as well.
 
Flighty
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:08 pm

slider, I think wilcharl's point was that HHH has strong local demand, and local flights will continue. Not because it "makes sense" but because those people are rich. That counts for something. Rich people tend to stay rich and they tend to get what they want.
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:26 am

IIRC part of the reason for the SAV name change to Savannah/Hilton Head was that more passengers actually come from SC than GA - military to Beaufort on top of tourists/locals to HH.
 
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Wynnster8
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:59 pm

Favorite plane is 757-200 Favorite airport is Singapore Favorite route is SYD-JNB
 
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enilria
Posts: 9662
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:29 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
Hilton Head Island IATA code is HHH. Could mods please change the title?

The only reason I opened the thread was thinking "Holy God, there are *two* airports in Hilton Head?"
 
DaufuskieGuy
Posts: 411
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:35 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:46 am

Wynnster8 wrote:


that's a lot of seats to fill over the DH planes though, would love to see it however
 
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LAX772LR
Posts: 12581
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:25 am

Pellegrine wrote:
I recall at least UA saying "Welcome to Savannah/Hilton Head". I suppose it was both for them.

The airport officially added "Hilton Head" to its name in 2003
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
cheapgreek
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:18 am

slider wrote:
wilcharl wrote:
My gut and just my thought as someone that has vacationed at Hilton Head annually since 1982, and flown there either to HXD/HHH or SAV every year since 2002:

1) The flights tend to go out full from HIlton Head. Full of Golf Clubs, Full of people with $$$$ and Full of people who don't want to drive to SAV
2) Many times in the summer, the flight is weight restricted, oversold, unreliable but still people take it
3) The same NIMBYs that don't want the noisy jets will be the same ones that will all the sudden have a change of tune if Piedmont stopped flying the Dash-Late into there


Totally agree. HHH has no need for scheduled commercial service, given the proximity to SAV. It's ridiculous in fact.

SAV has a good catchment and that deliberately includes HH, hence why they even changed the name of the airport and how they market it--to have that bigger draw, especially given the growth there and the focus on the golf and leisure economy. I love flying into SAV, so easy, rental cars out the back door, piece of cake. And easy quick hop to HHI.

Your point about weight restrictions and golf bags is a salient one as well.


If people choose to fly to HHH, then there is a need. The only reason there is very little service is the runway, not the lack of demand. At 4300 feet, its the shortest runway that receives commercial airline flights. When the runway project is completed which is in 2 phases, first to 5000 feet and then 5400 feet, more service will be added because the demand is there. HHH provides airport and airport related jobs and years ago when DL offered service, yearly boarding were quite higher than they are now. If people want to fly to Hilton Head and not SAV which is out of state and they are willing to pay for it, then there is a need for scheduled commercial airline service.
 
hawk2100n
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:25 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:20 pm

I grew up on HHH/KHXD. The runway extension is/has been a major pain point for everyone.
There is certainly need for air service and not the EAS type. The community has the $$ to support several daily flights year round.
I rode DL Saabs to ATL and many Dash-8s to CLT as US now AA is the only airline/route that has remained consistent over the years and not cancelled.
The noise can be an issue. Nearly the entire island is in the path of aircraft APCH noise and Biz Jet arrivals are frequent. Sometime there is a MiG-17 in the pattern but that's a different issue :)
The ends of the runways are sandwiched with highway, businesses, and a historically significant small black church, and it's been a long time coming to get those trees removed but it goes against the ethos of the island.

But seeing that my family still resides there and it's cheaper for me to fly to LHR on Thanksgiving than to HHH/SAV, I don't go back as often as I'd like. Closest Intl/intercon airport would probably be CHS, at 2.5 hour drive. Followed by CAE at 2.75 hours, then JAX at 3 hours, then GSP at 4, then CLT or ATL at 5. And its 50+ mins from my parent's house mid-Island to SAV, not 25 as others have said.
 
TWFlyGuy
Posts: 400
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Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:45 pm

My understanding is that the runway extension was primarily driven by the biz jet community needing more length to take off with full fuel. A by-product may be the ability to use CR7's at least from CLT & ATL but that was the driver according to a family member on the island with an aircraft based at HHH. It would be nice to see them keep service but I can see why they wouldn't. I agree with Hawk2100n about the drive to SAV. From my family's home just off the HHH runway, SAV is about an hour. Can be worse in peak season when a lot of tourists venture off island, especially to SAV to hit some of the restaurants, etc. there.

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