Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
usxguy
Posts: 1898
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:27 pm

Q400s can't fly commercially into HHH due to a wingspan size limitation, I believe, or is it taxiway turning limitation? I recall Eric Morgan, who once ran USAirways Express (unless he still does) mention that they can't bring anything larger than a Dash 8-300 into HHH due to operational size limits.
xx
 
CairnterriAIR
Posts: 691
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:52 am

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:51 pm

HVN is not loosing service. All flights as of end of November will be operated with CRJ-200’s.
 
GoHokies
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 2:53 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:41 pm

usxguy wrote:
Q400s can't fly commercially into HHH due to a wingspan size limitation, I believe, or is it taxiway turning limitation? I recall Eric Morgan, who once ran USAirways Express (unless he still does) mention that they can't bring anything larger than a Dash 8-300 into HHH due to operational size limits.


We should find out in the next few months if American will continue servicing HHH because Piedmont has announced that all Dash 8-300s(all currently based in CLT) will be retired by June 2018.
 
GoHokies
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 2:53 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:42 pm

CairnterriAIR wrote:
HVN is not loosing service. All flights as of end of November will be operated with CRJ-200’s.


Perhaps you misread the airport code? This thread is about Hilton Head, SC not New Haven, CT.
 
User avatar
usxguy
Posts: 1898
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:37 pm

but this is a.net and we like to

SQUIRREL!
xx
 
DaufuskieGuy
Posts: 411
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:35 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:24 am

GoHokies wrote:
usxguy wrote:
Q400s can't fly commercially into HHH due to a wingspan size limitation, I believe, or is it taxiway turning limitation? I recall Eric Morgan, who once ran USAirways Express (unless he still does) mention that they can't bring anything larger than a Dash 8-300 into HHH due to operational size limits.


We should find out in the next few months if American will continue servicing HHH because Piedmont has announced that all Dash 8-300s(all currently based in CLT) will be retired by June 2018.


runway extension to 5000 feet expected by mid 2018 http://www.islandpacket.com/news/local/ ... 83188.html - is that enough for a CRJ 2000 to get to CLT with a profitable payload?
 
DeSpringbokke
Posts: 371
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:27 am

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:03 pm

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
GoHokies wrote:
usxguy wrote:
Q400s can't fly commercially into HHH due to a wingspan size limitation, I believe, or is it taxiway turning limitation? I recall Eric Morgan, who once ran USAirways Express (unless he still does) mention that they can't bring anything larger than a Dash 8-300 into HHH due to operational size limits.


We should find out in the next few months if American will continue servicing HHH because Piedmont has announced that all Dash 8-300s(all currently based in CLT) will be retired by June 2018.


runway extension to 5000 feet expected by mid 2018 http://www.islandpacket.com/news/local/ ... 83188.html - is that enough for a CRJ 2000 to get to CLT with a profitable payload?


As mentioned earlier, it should be ok for a CRJ-700 to operate CLT-HHH. However, might see a reduction in flights due to size.
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2281
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:05 pm

DeSpringbokke wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
GoHokies wrote:

We should find out in the next few months if American will continue servicing HHH because Piedmont has announced that all Dash 8-300s(all currently based in CLT) will be retired by June 2018.


runway extension to 5000 feet expected by mid 2018 http://www.islandpacket.com/news/local/ ... 83188.html - is that enough for a CRJ 2000 to get to CLT with a profitable payload?


As mentioned earlier, it should be ok for a CRJ-700 to operate CLT-HHH. However, might see a reduction in flights due to size.




ER145s might work with a 4600' takeoff field, but that is Max Pax and only 400nm range of fuel. I expect the CRJ would have similar performance.

Q400 looks to be the best answer as it could take off and land with a full load inside 5000' ...but not many of those in the AA fleet...in fact none, IINM.
 
TWFlyGuy
Posts: 430
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:05 pm

DLPMMM wrote:
DeSpringbokke wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:

runway extension to 5000 feet expected by mid 2018 http://www.islandpacket.com/news/local/ ... 83188.html - is that enough for a CRJ 2000 to get to CLT with a profitable payload?


As mentioned earlier, it should be ok for a CRJ-700 to operate CLT-HHH. However, might see a reduction in flights due to size.




ER145s might work with a 4600' takeoff field, but that is Max Pax and only 400nm range of fuel. I expect the CRJ would have similar performance.

Q400 looks to be the best answer as it could take off and land with a full load inside 5000' ...but not many of those in the AA fleet...in fact none, IINM.



400nm from HHH gets you ATL, CLT, DCA, IAD, MIA. That covers more than enough and certainly more than today. And that's at max pax according to the charts you're using...AA currently weight restricts and has kept the service going. What's to say they wouldn't pull 5 seats off a CRJ700 or even a 145 to get a bit more range for PHL and UA could then add EWR, LGA/JFK for DL.
 
evank516
Posts: 2175
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:18 pm

Not that they would, but with a 5,000 foot runway, DL could fly the 737-700 in there if we're just talking about runway length. They're in EYW regularly, and they have a shorter runway than 5,000. However, the terminal at HXD probably can't handle the capacity of a 737, but I can definitely see DL heading back in once the runway is lengthened.
 
flyjoe
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:10 am

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:18 pm

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
runway extension to 5000 feet expected by mid 2018 - is that enough for a CRJ 2000 to get to CLT with a profitable payload?


Key West's runway is 4801'x100', at the same elevation and they see 737s, CR7s and E175s So HHH should be okay for the RJ types, although there may be payload restrictions.
 
TWFlyGuy
Posts: 430
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:31 pm

flyjoe wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
runway extension to 5000 feet expected by mid 2018 - is that enough for a CRJ 2000 to get to CLT with a profitable payload?


Key West's runway is 4801'x100', at the same elevation and they see 737s, CR7s and E175s So HHH should be okay for the RJ types, although there may be payload restrictions.


Interesting you note DL's ATL-EYW route. If you apply similar distances, that could make a WN BNA-HHH flight feasible in a 73G. Maybe some seat blocking on the EYW-BNA segment but definitely in that range at ~200nm shorter. Also, not sure what the 319's runway requirements are but could that put PHL in range? Obviously more capacity than needed but does make for some interesting possibilities if a CR7 would be too much from CLT at current schedule, is a PHL flight a better way to increase opportunities?
 
aaflyer222
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:34 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:11 pm

GoHokies wrote:
usxguy wrote:
Q400s can't fly commercially into HHH due to a wingspan size limitation, I believe, or is it taxiway turning limitation? I recall Eric Morgan, who once ran USAirways Express (unless he still does) mention that they can't bring anything larger than a Dash 8-300 into HHH due to operational size limits.


We should find out in the next few months if American will continue servicing HHH because Piedmont has announced that all Dash 8-300s(all currently based in CLT) will be retired by June 2018.


Where did you hear that piedmont will remove all of the dh3 by June 2018?, the last announcement that I heard was end of 2018. Also at this time I would only expect OH cr2 service, as the terminal is very small and SAV is much cheaper.
74m, 772, 763, 764, 752, 733, 734, 738, 739, a319, a320, a321, s80, m88, m90, e190, e170, e175, e140, e145, cr2, cr7, cr9, dh1, dh3, dh4, at72, s340
 
evank516
Posts: 2175
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:28 pm

aaflyer222 wrote:
GoHokies wrote:
usxguy wrote:
Q400s can't fly commercially into HHH due to a wingspan size limitation, I believe, or is it taxiway turning limitation? I recall Eric Morgan, who once ran USAirways Express (unless he still does) mention that they can't bring anything larger than a Dash 8-300 into HHH due to operational size limits.


We should find out in the next few months if American will continue servicing HHH because Piedmont has announced that all Dash 8-300s(all currently based in CLT) will be retired by June 2018.


Where did you hear that piedmont will remove all of the dh3 by June 2018?, the last announcement that I heard was end of 2018. Also at this time I would only expect OH cr2 service, as the terminal is very small and SAV is much cheaper.


The CR2 doesn't have the short field performance like the CR7 does.
 
User avatar
usxguy
Posts: 1898
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:59 pm

CRJ 200s still flew into EYW with a weight restriction, although it was just to FLL and normally took about 42 pax. Once the runway was wet it dropped to 35. So it can be done, however the obstacles on takeoff could be enough of paper-penalty to make it a no-go.
xx
 
DeSpringbokke
Posts: 371
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:27 am

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:46 am

Interesting mention of the 73G with HHH's short runway. ATL-HHH is roughly a third of the distance of ATL-EYW. I wonder if Delta would consider starting a seasonal frequency into HHH, albeit Friday/Saturdays only, with the 73G flying into HHH in the evening, remaining overnight, and taking off in the morning, avoiding any potential problems with the heat and humidity of summertime Low Country South Carolina. Not sure if HHH would have the facilities for such a large aircraft, especially if it remained on the ground overnight. Could be problematic with summertime thunderstorms having such a large aircraft being a sitting duck for lightning. I think the CRJ-700 is the better bet. But again, I am not sold on the idea Delta could make this work other than weekends only from Spring to Fall.
 
DaufuskieGuy
Posts: 411
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:35 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:58 am

there was daily (3X?) atr72 service from atl in the mid 2000s don't see why couldn't return with cr7. the clt connex are almost entirely inferior to atl of course so why not compete?
 
cheapgreek
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:48 am

I remember reading where the runway would be expanded in two stages, first to 5000 feet then to 5400 feet. I hope that plan is still on as 5400 feet would make weight restricted flights rare.
 
TWFlyGuy
Posts: 430
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:43 pm

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
there was daily (3X?) atr72 service from atl in the mid 2000s don't see why couldn't return with cr7. the clt connex are almost entirely inferior to atl of course so why not compete?


I get that ATL has more flights and thus more connecting opportunities but why do you say CLT connections are inferior? Just curious. There likely aren't many, if any, sizable PDEW markets that CLT isn't serving for HHH connections.
 
evank516
Posts: 2175
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:33 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
flyjoe wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
runway extension to 5000 feet expected by mid 2018 - is that enough for a CRJ 2000 to get to CLT with a profitable payload?


Key West's runway is 4801'x100', at the same elevation and they see 737s, CR7s and E175s So HHH should be okay for the RJ types, although there may be payload restrictions.


Interesting you note DL's ATL-EYW route. If you apply similar distances, that could make a WN BNA-HHH flight feasible in a 73G. Maybe some seat blocking on the EYW-BNA segment but definitely in that range at ~200nm shorter. Also, not sure what the 319's runway requirements are but could that put PHL in range? Obviously more capacity than needed but does make for some interesting possibilities if a CR7 would be too much from CLT at current schedule, is a PHL flight a better way to increase opportunities?


But why would WN go to HHH if they don't even go into SAV? WN's 737-700s don't have the same short field retrofitting that DL's has either. Also, IIRC DL does not weight restrict their 737s on ATL-EYW. Those flights are usually jam packed. The CR7 took a penalty here and there though. DL could easily do ATL-HHH with no payload penalty on a 737-700, but I'm also pretty sure wingspan is a problem.
 
TWFlyGuy
Posts: 430
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:48 pm

evank516 wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
flyjoe wrote:

Key West's runway is 4801'x100', at the same elevation and they see 737s, CR7s and E175s So HHH should be okay for the RJ types, although there may be payload restrictions.


Interesting you note DL's ATL-EYW route. If you apply similar distances, that could make a WN BNA-HHH flight feasible in a 73G. Maybe some seat blocking on the EYW-BNA segment but definitely in that range at ~200nm shorter. Also, not sure what the 319's runway requirements are but could that put PHL in range? Obviously more capacity than needed but does make for some interesting possibilities if a CR7 would be too much from CLT at current schedule, is a PHL flight a better way to increase opportunities?


But why would WN go to HHH if they don't even go into SAV? WN's 737-700s don't have the same short field retrofitting that DL's has either. Also, IIRC DL does not weight restrict their 737s on ATL-EYW. Those flights are usually jam packed. The CR7 took a penalty here and there though. DL could easily do ATL-HHH with no payload penalty on a 737-700, but I'm also pretty sure wingspan is a problem.


I was merely laying out a hypothetical. The runway lengthening opens up new possibilities. As you suggest, WN would likely just go to SAV. DL could add 73G service for peak season/days. AA could potentially, if the aircraft are capable, add 319 service to CLT on peaks as well. Isn't this what A.net is about...hypotheticals? I do think it would be cool if DL comes back with CR700's and AA adds them too...could reduce fares some even if they optimize schedules to keep seat counts somewhat flat.
 
evank516
Posts: 2175
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:59 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
evank516 wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:

Interesting you note DL's ATL-EYW route. If you apply similar distances, that could make a WN BNA-HHH flight feasible in a 73G. Maybe some seat blocking on the EYW-BNA segment but definitely in that range at ~200nm shorter. Also, not sure what the 319's runway requirements are but could that put PHL in range? Obviously more capacity than needed but does make for some interesting possibilities if a CR7 would be too much from CLT at current schedule, is a PHL flight a better way to increase opportunities?


But why would WN go to HHH if they don't even go into SAV? WN's 737-700s don't have the same short field retrofitting that DL's has either. Also, IIRC DL does not weight restrict their 737s on ATL-EYW. Those flights are usually jam packed. The CR7 took a penalty here and there though. DL could easily do ATL-HHH with no payload penalty on a 737-700, but I'm also pretty sure wingspan is a problem.


I was merely laying out a hypothetical. The runway lengthening opens up new possibilities. As you suggest, WN would likely just go to SAV. DL could add 73G service for peak season/days. AA could potentially, if the aircraft are capable, add 319 service to CLT on peaks as well. Isn't this what A.net is about...hypotheticals? I do think it would be cool if DL comes back with CR700's and AA adds them too...could reduce fares some even if they optimize schedules to keep seat counts somewhat flat.


DL heading back in would be fantastic. I think the A319 could technically do CLT as well, DL's A319 actually did do ATL-EYW. However, I highly doubt that tiny terminal can handle mainline flights, and I think wingspan is an issue.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14637
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:06 pm

evank516 wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
evank516 wrote:

But why would WN go to HHH if they don't even go into SAV? WN's 737-700s don't have the same short field retrofitting that DL's has either. Also, IIRC DL does not weight restrict their 737s on ATL-EYW. Those flights are usually jam packed. The CR7 took a penalty here and there though. DL could easily do ATL-HHH with no payload penalty on a 737-700, but I'm also pretty sure wingspan is a problem.


I was merely laying out a hypothetical. The runway lengthening opens up new possibilities. As you suggest, WN would likely just go to SAV. DL could add 73G service for peak season/days. AA could potentially, if the aircraft are capable, add 319 service to CLT on peaks as well. Isn't this what A.net is about...hypotheticals? I do think it would be cool if DL comes back with CR700's and AA adds them too...could reduce fares some even if they optimize schedules to keep seat counts somewhat flat.


DL heading back in would be fantastic. I think the A319 could technically do CLT as well, DL's A319 actually did do ATL-EYW. However, I highly doubt that tiny terminal can handle mainline flights, and I think wingspan is an issue.


I measure about 300 feet between the centerlines of the runway and both taxiways, so wingspan isn't necessarily a problem for navigating on the airport. The ramp is awfully tight, however.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
TWFlyGuy
Posts: 430
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:14 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
evank516 wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:

I was merely laying out a hypothetical. The runway lengthening opens up new possibilities. As you suggest, WN would likely just go to SAV. DL could add 73G service for peak season/days. AA could potentially, if the aircraft are capable, add 319 service to CLT on peaks as well. Isn't this what A.net is about...hypotheticals? I do think it would be cool if DL comes back with CR700's and AA adds them too...could reduce fares some even if they optimize schedules to keep seat counts somewhat flat.


DL heading back in would be fantastic. I think the A319 could technically do CLT as well, DL's A319 actually did do ATL-EYW. However, I highly doubt that tiny terminal can handle mainline flights, and I think wingspan is an issue.


I measure about 300 feet between the centerlines of the runway and both taxiways, so wingspan isn't necessarily a problem for navigating on the airport. The ramp is awfully tight, however.


Using google maps so it could be deceiving, but it seems the ramp would be ok...the taxiway distance from the trees on the Western side might be a wingspan issue for a 73G/319. They tend to provide a good noise buffer as well so you might be hard pressed to remove more to get that size aircraft in. CR700 is likely to be the best option but that's still a win especially if DL comes back and creates some competition.
 
evank516
Posts: 2175
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:18 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
evank516 wrote:

DL heading back in would be fantastic. I think the A319 could technically do CLT as well, DL's A319 actually did do ATL-EYW. However, I highly doubt that tiny terminal can handle mainline flights, and I think wingspan is an issue.


I measure about 300 feet between the centerlines of the runway and both taxiways, so wingspan isn't necessarily a problem for navigating on the airport. The ramp is awfully tight, however.


Using google maps so it could be deceiving, but it seems the ramp would be ok...the taxiway distance from the trees on the Western side might be a wingspan issue for a 73G/319. They tend to provide a good noise buffer as well so you might be hard pressed to remove more to get that size aircraft in. CR700 is likely to be the best option but that's still a win especially if DL comes back and creates some competition.


With Google Maps, it does seem possible to fit a 737 in there. The markings on the ramp would have to be repainted because I don't think the 737 could park in the designated space the way it is, but I think it could manage. I'm more concerned with whether or not the terminal itself can handle that amount of passengers. ALSO, with the runway up to 5,000 feet this would be a prime CS100 airport if DL felt like throwing in LGA/JFK-HHH. I know they won't be based in ATL right away.
 
flyjoe
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:10 am

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:39 pm

There are a couple of things here not being thought about with suggestions of DL or AA flying mainline jets into HHH.

- There are no close alternate airports to EYW whereas HHH has SAV not that far away with lots of additional flight options.
- HHH has a lot more visitors driving (think MYR) from longer distances than EYW.
- I don't have numbers to confirm, but I believe HHH doesn't have the amount of visitors compared to EYW.
- As of now, you have obstructions (taller trees) at the end of HHH runways that aren't the same at EYW that could present problems.
- Can the runway (strength) at HHH support mainline aircraft?
- As mentioned earlier, the terminal at HHH can't support the level of traffic that EYW has.
 
cheapgreek
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:20 pm

evank516 wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
flyjoe wrote:

Key West's runway is 4801'x100', at the same elevation and they see 737s, CR7s and E175s So HHH should be okay for the RJ types, although there may be payload restrictions.


Interesting you note DL's ATL-EYW route. If you apply similar distances, that could make a WN BNA-HHH flight feasible in a 73G. Maybe some seat blocking on the EYW-BNA segment but definitely in that range at ~200nm shorter. Also, not sure what the 319's runway requirements are but could that put PHL in range? Obviously more capacity than needed but does make for some interesting possibilities if a CR7 would be too much from CLT at current schedule, is a PHL flight a better way to increase opportunities?


But why would WN go to HHH if they don't even go into SAV? WN's 737-700s don't have the same short field retrofitting that DL's has either. Also, IIRC DL does not weight restrict their 737s on ATL-EYW. Those flights are usually jam packed. The CR7 took a penalty here and there though. DL could easily do ATL-HHH with no payload penalty on a 737-700, but I'm also pretty sure wingspan is a problem.


"But why would WN go to HHH if they don't even go into SAV?" Because they would own the increased business considering they and AA would be the only carriers and WN the only LCC. In SAV the pie is too small to divide up among the other carriers so I don't think WN will go to SAV. The only airport of size that WN could probably fly to is BWI since it is the closest.
 
User avatar
zelalemon
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:51 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:22 am

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
mats wrote:

If you're headed to Sea Pines or thereabouts, the drive from SAV is around 50 minutes. Form HHH, it's about 25 minutes.
.


If you could get from northern HH (HHH) to SAV in 25 minutes, then HHH would never have had commercial service. It's 43 miles, half of that on a 45/55 MPH road with roughly 15 stoplights. And there will be more stoplights coming as Bluffton continues to grow. And more back ups on 95 which is only 4 lanes as the country grows. So that actually helps the case for HHH flights hanging on, though as commavia and others well point out, it's far from certain.


I know it's been 8 months, but he is not saying that it is 25 minutes from SAV to HHH. He says that it is 50 minutes from Sea Pines to SAV, and 25 minutes from Sea Pines to HHH. This means that it could be anywhere from 25 to 75 minutes from SAV to HHH (just by his information).
 
DaufuskieGuy
Posts: 411
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:35 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:00 am

TWFlyGuy wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
there was daily (3X?) atr72 service from atl in the mid 2000s don't see why couldn't return with cr7. the clt connex are almost entirely inferior to atl of course so why not compete?


I get that ATL has more flights and thus more connecting opportunities but why do you say CLT connections are inferior? Just curious. There likely aren't many, if any, sizable PDEW markets that CLT isn't serving for HHH connections.


if you want single transfer flights to south america, asia, most european cities, hawaii, alaska then atl works whereas clt does not. plus frequencies are fewer out of clt.
 
TWFlyGuy
Posts: 430
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:56 pm

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
there was daily (3X?) atr72 service from atl in the mid 2000s don't see why couldn't return with cr7. the clt connex are almost entirely inferior to atl of course so why not compete?


I get that ATL has more flights and thus more connecting opportunities but why do you say CLT connections are inferior? Just curious. There likely aren't many, if any, sizable PDEW markets that CLT isn't serving for HHH connections.


if you want single transfer flights to south america, asia, most european cities, hawaii, alaska then atl works whereas clt does not. plus frequencies are fewer out of clt.


Again, sizable PDEWs...I'm betting South America, Asia, secondary European markets, Hawaii and Alaska account for very little HHH traffic. As for frequencies, the only frequency that matters is the one that your flight connects to in CLT or ATL.
 
DaufuskieGuy
Posts: 411
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:35 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:16 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:

I get that ATL has more flights and thus more connecting opportunities but why do you say CLT connections are inferior? Just curious. There likely aren't many, if any, sizable PDEW markets that CLT isn't serving for HHH connections.


if you want single transfer flights to south america, asia, most european cities, hawaii, alaska then atl works whereas clt does not. plus frequencies are fewer out of clt.


Again, sizable PDEWs...I'm betting South America, Asia, secondary European markets, Hawaii and Alaska account for very little HHH traffic. As for frequencies, the only frequency that matters is the one that your flight connects to in CLT or ATL.


that's just wrong. I lived 15 years on hhh it is a very well to do demographic of retirees and self employed they fly all over the world plus there are numerous domestic destinations clt either serves sparsely or not at all relative to atl. and yes frequency does matter especially in irregular opps. the only reason dl left is they got rid of turboprops i think/hope they'd come back with the 5000 ft runway
 
evank516
Posts: 2175
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:33 pm

cheapgreek wrote:
evank516 wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:

Interesting you note DL's ATL-EYW route. If you apply similar distances, that could make a WN BNA-HHH flight feasible in a 73G. Maybe some seat blocking on the EYW-BNA segment but definitely in that range at ~200nm shorter. Also, not sure what the 319's runway requirements are but could that put PHL in range? Obviously more capacity than needed but does make for some interesting possibilities if a CR7 would be too much from CLT at current schedule, is a PHL flight a better way to increase opportunities?


But why would WN go to HHH if they don't even go into SAV? WN's 737-700s don't have the same short field retrofitting that DL's has either. Also, IIRC DL does not weight restrict their 737s on ATL-EYW. Those flights are usually jam packed. The CR7 took a penalty here and there though. DL could easily do ATL-HHH with no payload penalty on a 737-700, but I'm also pretty sure wingspan is a problem.


"But why would WN go to HHH if they don't even go into SAV?" Because they would own the increased business considering they and AA would be the only carriers and WN the only LCC. In SAV the pie is too small to divide up among the other carriers so I don't think WN will go to SAV. The only airport of size that WN could probably fly to is BWI since it is the closest.


No. If they don't even fly to SAV then HHH is not on their radar. There's no way that they could make HHH work over SAV. Plus, WN pulled out of EYW due to the short runway inhibiting their operations. The 5,000 runway will be exactly 199 feet longer than EYW. Not long enough to eliminate the obstacles that WN employees complained of in EYW. WN would most likely capture the traffic they want from HHH at SAV. That's what they do, because by your argument, WN should be flying to MLB over MCO, or LAL over MCO. WN competes well with other network carriers.
 
cheapgreek
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:21 am

evank516 wrote:
cheapgreek wrote:
evank516 wrote:

But why would WN go to HHH if they don't even go into SAV? WN's 737-700s don't have the same short field retrofitting that DL's has either. Also, IIRC DL does not weight restrict their 737s on ATL-EYW. Those flights are usually jam packed. The CR7 took a penalty here and there though. DL could easily do ATL-HHH with no payload penalty on a 737-700, but I'm also pretty sure wingspan is a problem.


"But why would WN go to HHH if they don't even go into SAV?" Because they would own the increased business considering they and AA would be the only carriers and WN the only LCC. In SAV the pie is too small to divide up among the other carriers so I don't think WN will go to SAV. The only airport of size that WN could probably fly to is BWI since it is the closest.


No. If they don't even fly to SAV then HHH is not on their radar. There's no way that they could make HHH work over SAV. Plus, WN pulled out of EYW due to the short runway inhibiting their operations. The 5,000 runway will be exactly 199 feet longer than EYW. Not long enough to eliminate the obstacles that WN employees complained of in EYW. WN would most likely capture the traffic they want from HHH at SAV. That's what they do, because by your argument, WN should be flying to MLB over MCO, or LAL over MCO. WN competes well with other network carriers.


As I mentioned earlier I heard the runway will go to 5400 feet after the 5000 foot extension and that would go a long way to eliminate weight restrictions. It used to be that WN went into a new city with 10-12 daily flights, but I have seen them start service with a smaller number of flights. While its a long shot, it would draw well from the local area with 3-4 daily flights. BWI,BNA,MCO,ATL all within close proximity with many connecting flights. Like I said, a long shot.
 
catiii
Posts: 3647
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Future of Hilton Head Island HXD

Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:02 am

N126DL wrote:
And those Dash-8s are weight restricted to about 23-25 pax. In the time it takes me to get to the island (45 mins) I can be in Pooler (35-40 mins) and have regional jet service on UA/AA and mainline service on DL, B6, G4, etc. Unless I lived on the island, I wouldn't see the appeal.


For a point of clarity, UA flies mainline to both EWR and IAD.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos