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Eindhoven
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Why does HV not fly to the UK and Ireland from NL

Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:36 pm

HV does have two destinations in the UK (LTN and EDI) and one in Ireland (DUB), but only from ORY. They do not fly to any English or Irish airports from AMS, RTM, EIN or MUC for example. Why not? Is it because HV France does have landing rights there and HV Netherlands does not? Or is there something else going on? I think U2 and FR can use a bit of LCC competition on these routes and HV can just be that competition.
 
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Re: Why does HV not fly to the UK and Ireland from NL

Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:48 pm

No need for landing rights: any EU airline can fly anywhere in the EU. Probably due to competition, large presence of LCCs on NL-UK, that KL doesn't want them to, and that HV probably think alternative routes are more likely to succeed. AMS-LTN is even less likely now due to Vueling flying it alongside EZY.
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shamrock321
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Re: Why does HV not fly to the UK and Ireland from NL

Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:53 pm

HV previously operated RTM-DUB, IT got cut, plenty of competition from surrounds airports in NL.
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Why does HV not fly to the UK and Ireland from NL

Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:59 pm

KLM and/or KLM Cityhopper does all the AMS-UK flying for the group, and possibly there just isn't the demand from the Dutch side for flights to the UK from RTM and EIN (i.e. tourists going there from the UK, yes, but perhaps it's not worth it from the Dutch side to fly from RTM or EIN when you can drive/train to a larger airport). MUC to the UK would be largely a business route and it seems Air France-KLM are happy just taking whatever traffic they can get to go via PAR or AMS.

Transavia and Transavia France have the same rights in the UK (at least for now) as all three are EU member states.
 
by738
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Re: Why does HV not fly to the UK and Ireland from NL

Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:35 pm

im sure they tried PIK-AMS and it flopped. KLM have it covered
 
eicvd
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Re: Why does HV not fly to the UK and Ireland from NL

Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:11 am

They are starting MUC-DUB soon.
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vv701
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Re: Why does HV not fly to the UK and Ireland from NL

Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:22 pm

DeltaB717 wrote:
KLM and/or KLM Cityhopper does all the AMS-UK flying for the group, and possibly there just isn't the demand from the Dutch side for flights to the UK from RTM and EIN (i.e. tourists going there from the UK, yes, but perhaps it's not worth it from the Dutch side to fly from RTM or EIN when you can drive/train to a larger airport).


There would certainly appear to be a substantial mainly business demand between RTM and LON. BA CityFlyer operate 25 weekly mainly E190 flights between RTM and LCY. That's well over 2,000 seats per week. They operate four flights on Day 1 and 5, five on Day 2, 3, and 4 and two on Day 7.

Note that there are also 37 weekly BA CityFlyer LCY-AMS flights.
 
rutankrd
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Re: Why does HV not fly to the UK and Ireland from NL

Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:21 pm

Simply immense competition I suppose.

They have operated scheduled services before from both Amsterdam and Rotterdam into Luton, Stansted and Gatwick at differing times.

With KLM/KLC serving just about every nook and cranny little need for the leisure brand at the moment.

From Eindhoven Ryanair cover Manchester and Stansted,

From Rotterdam other than London City numerous attempts at connections to Manchester and Birmingham in particular seem to end in the bin - Largely because of the proximity and frequencies available just up the rail line.

South of Apeldoorn and east of Arnhem and Nijmegen and frankly Dusseldorf becomes appealing rather than sitting on traffic on the A15/A2 or A1 imho

With Manchester having services to Amsterdam multiple times a day by KLM/KLC additional flights by Easyjet and Flybe with Vueling joining the party in the spring and that just one city pair, one has to wonder what market is left .
 
Jerry123
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Re: Why does HV not fly to the UK and Ireland from NL

Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:50 pm

Just too much competition on the routes. There may be a market at some of the smaller airports like CWL or NQY for say 2 to 3 flights a week targeting the leisure market for AMS but I doubt KLM would let them because of the potential of it effecting the Cityhopper loads.
 
EIDL
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Re: Why does HV not fly to the UK and Ireland from NL

Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:52 pm

DUB-AMS is not quite a bloodbath but very competitive at the moment (KL often cheapest); DUB-EIN would see Ryanair put up an immense fight and that is basically the bulk of the ROI-NL traffic. ORK-AMS is also served fairly well.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Why does HV not fly to the UK and Ireland from NL

Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:51 pm

vv701 wrote:
There would certainly appear to be a substantial mainly business demand between RTM and LON. BA CityFlyer operate 25 weekly mainly E190 flights between RTM and LCY. That's well over 2,000 seats per week. They operate four flights on Day 1 and 5, five on Day 2, 3, and 4 and two on Day 7.

Note that there are also 37 weekly BA CityFlyer LCY-AMS flights.


But other than London City no other London airports are served from Rotterdam, and the CityJet / BA CityFlyer flights are hardly low-cost so there's a lot to gain. I can see Transavia starting Rotterdam - Stansted or Rotterdam - Gatwick or something like that.

At Eindhoven it might be a little more difficult because Ryanair already flies Eindhoven - Stansted, but again none of the other London airports are served. There are no Eindhoven - Gatwick flights for example.

Jerry123 wrote:
Just too much competition on the routes. There may be a market at some of the smaller airports like CWL or NQY for say 2 to 3 flights a week targeting the leisure market for AMS but I doubt KLM would let them because of the potential of it effecting the Cityhopper loads.


Maybe not from Amsterdam since that would mean direct competition with KLM, but what about Eindhoven? Would that work? Let's say they start Eindhoven - Edinburgh, a route that's currently unserved. Flying from Eindhoven would not beat competition from Amsterdam, and I think there's enough demand.
 
Jerry123
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Re: Why does HV not fly to the UK and Ireland from NL

Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:58 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
vv701 wrote:
There would certainly appear to be a substantial mainly business demand between RTM and LON. BA CityFlyer operate 25 weekly mainly E190 flights between RTM and LCY. That's well over 2,000 seats per week. They operate four flights on Day 1 and 5, five on Day 2, 3, and 4 and two on Day 7.

Note that there are also 37 weekly BA CityFlyer LCY-AMS flights.


But other than London City no other London airports are served from Rotterdam, and the CityJet / BA CityFlyer flights are hardly low-cost so there's a lot to gain. I can see Transavia starting Rotterdam - Stansted or Rotterdam - Gatwick or something like that.

At Eindhoven it might be a little more difficult because Ryanair already flies Eindhoven - Stansted, but again none of the other London airports are served. There are no Eindhoven - Gatwick flights for example.

Jerry123 wrote:
Just too much competition on the routes. There may be a market at some of the smaller airports like CWL or NQY for say 2 to 3 flights a week targeting the leisure market for AMS but I doubt KLM would let them because of the potential of it effecting the Cityhopper loads.


Maybe not from Amsterdam since that would mean direct competition with KLM, but what about Eindhoven? Would that work? Let's say they start Eindhoven - Edinburgh, a route that's currently unserved. Flying from Eindhoven would not beat competition from Amsterdam, and I think there's enough demand.

Eindhoven might work for say LGW or EDI or maybe MAN but you have to ask why they haven't already tried it?
 
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BasilFawlty
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Re: Why does HV not fly to the UK and Ireland from NL

Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:25 pm

Eindhoven wrote:
and HV can just be that competition.

No they can't (although they think they can, that's why they aren't profitable for quite a while now :wink2:), fixed costs at HV are much higher when compared to FR or EZY.

But... HV flew to the UK and Ireland in the past, AMS-STN, AMS-PIK, RTM-STN, RTM-LTN, RTM-DUB...

PatrickZ80 wrote:
But other than London City no other London airports are served from Rotterdam, and the CityJet / BA CityFlyer flights are hardly low-cost so there's a lot to gain. I can see Transavia starting Rotterdam - Stansted or Rotterdam - Gatwick or something like that.

HV already tried both RTM-STN and RTM-LTN several years ago.
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skipness1E
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Re: Why does HV not fly to the UK and Ireland from NL

Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:43 am

They flew LGW-AMS for years on behalf of KLM
 
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Eindhoven
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Re: Why does HV not fly to the UK and Ireland from NL

Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:08 pm

Jerry123 wrote:
Eindhoven might work for say LGW or EDI or maybe MAN but you have to ask why they haven't already tried it?


FR tried EIN-MAN and it is a success for them. Right now FR is the only airline flying EIN to the UK and Ireland. If it is for FR then why not for HV?

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