jmmadrid
Posts: 342
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:00 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:04 pm

TK787 wrote:

Not that everyone would want to avail of this, but doesn't TK also offer free tours of Istanbul for layovers of 10 hours or longer?
Yes. Last year I was offered one, even for shorter layover there was a half day tour. IIRC, TK also offers rooms to sleep in at the airport. Not too many rooms,but they do offer. Even some at the TK/Star Gold lounge.


I checked with my friend and he would have accepted a city tour during one layover and a room to rest of the overnight flight in the other, but he was offered neither.

This is sad. Two passengers lost just because the agent that handled the situation did not even try to retain them using some of the tools they have at their disposal at a small cost for the airline.

I hope at least one TK manager reads this, feels upset and takes action.
 
User avatar
TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4242
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:58 pm

OA260 wrote:
TK787 wrote:
Pegasus numbers for January; yoy pax numbers up 4.2%, load factor is up 1%. Both international and domestic numbers are better for Jan 17. This makes the Jan. numbers for TK even more troubling.
http://www.airkule.com/haber/8203-PEGAS ... LADI/26202 (Turkis only)


Do you think that Pegasus will eat more into TK routes with their LCC model? Maybe Turks will become a lot more cost driven then they already are and will start looking for no frills more and more.

Well, like everyone else on the planet they have been doing that for a longtime. Most of my friends look for only one thing, that is "price". To give examples from my immediate family; my brother and his family take advantage of Pegasus' sales and buy deep discount domestic tickets months in advance for short weekend getaways. And they fly AF to Paris since they are hooked into that mileage program for loyalty. My sister on the other hand flies mostly Pegasus, since SAW is closer to her home, but prefers whatever is cheapest from SAW; Pegasus or TK. The US company she works for recently asked all employees to travel with Pegasus if all possible for all business related travel domestic and international.
I fly TK for the last 2-3 years all over since I enjoy the EP perks. Not only I get two US-Istanbul free Y to J upgrades, I've been upgraded to J on 3 international flights so far. I have to admit, I make sure the company/client I work for buys my ticket in classes that would earn me 100% miles flown :) Domestically, I fly Pegasus maybe 10% of the time and it is just fine. It is usually for convenience of the schedule and I usually spend more for the scotch on board than the fare :)
Last edited by TK787 on Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
User avatar
TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4242
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:02 pm

jmmadrid wrote:

I hope at least one TK manager reads this, feels upset and takes action.

I doubt any TK manager visit this site. I think they do respond to their Facebook page comments.
 
User avatar
mafaky
Posts: 712
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:04 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:22 pm

Dear Yakamoz,

Landed last Friday afternoon in ZRH.


Are you definitely positive on this? Cannot trace that Irish tail number at all, on FR24. Flightaware only indicates that it has landed at Bangor, Maine (which is expected), but has never left that airport...
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24003
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:54 pm

jmmadrid wrote:
I checked with my friend and he would have accepted a city tour during one layover and a room to rest of the overnight flight in the other, but he was offered neither.

The city tour must be requested upon arrival by the passengers. It cannot be booked or offered in advance.

Here are details:

Passengers who arrive at our Istanbul station and are due to take a connecting flight on the same day can now choose between spending their waiting time relaxing in free daytime hotel accommodation or using our new service to enjoy a magnificent tour of Istanbul.

What you need to know about Touristanbul:

> No pre-booking or reservation is required but passengers must not have already used the accommodation service provided by us during the same connecting flight.
> Passengers must be traveling from one international location to another with a flight connection at Atatürk Airport. Both legs of the flight must be operated by Turkish Airlines.
> Passengers must have a waiting period of no more than 24 hours at Atatürk Airport. Connection times between flights should not be longer than 24 hours and shorter than 6 hours.
> Connection times must be appropriate for our tour schedule: Passengers need to be at the Hotel Desk of the International Arrivals terminal 30 minutes before the start of the tour. Passengers will arrive back at the airport at the scheduled finish time of the tour. Passengers must ensure their flight departure time is at least one and half hour after the finish time of the tour.
> Passengers who have already checked in for their ongoing flight must show their passport and boarding pass to the member of staff at the Hotel Desk.
> Passengers are responsible for making their own visa arrangements for entry into Turkey and any related costs.
> Passengers can find out the visa requirements and related costs for each nationality and passport type at http://www.evisa.gov.tr/en.
> Tours accompanied by an English speaking guide take place from 08:30-11:00,09:00-15:00, 09:00-18:00,12:00-18:00 and 16:00-21:00 every day.
> Tours may be subject to changes due to traffic or weather conditions, public events and restoration programs which are in progress at museums and archaeological sites.
> Tours include museums, historical sites and various religious establishments and for this reason passengers are not allowed to bring pets.
> As passengers are allotted some free time during the tour, those aged under 18 must be accompanied by an adult companion.
> The costs of meals (breakfast/lunch/dinner), transfers, entrance fees to museums and historical sites and the guided tour itself are met by us.
> Passengers should take into account the fact that during the tour they will be required to walk at a medium pace and remain on their feet for long periods of time.
> As this supplementary free service provided by Turkish Airlines is independent from the main contract of carriage and entirely optional, passengers who are unable to take advantage of Touristanbul due to flight delays, late application or other reasons cannot make a claim for compensation or any other demand.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
EvrenErdem
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:00 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:17 pm

LAXintl wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:
I checked with my friend and he would have accepted a city tour during one layover and a room to rest of the overnight flight in the other, but he was offered neither.

The city tour must be requested upon arrival by the passengers. It cannot be booked or offered in advance.

Here are details:

Passengers who arrive at our Istanbul station and are due to take a connecting flight on the same day can now choose between spending their waiting time relaxing in free daytime hotel accommodation or using our new service to enjoy a magnificent tour of Istanbul.

What you need to know about Touristanbul:

> No pre-booking or reservation is required but passengers must not have already used the accommodation service provided by us during the same connecting flight.
> Passengers must be traveling from one international location to another with a flight connection at Atatürk Airport. Both legs of the flight must be operated by Turkish Airlines.
> Passengers must have a waiting period of no more than 24 hours at Atatürk Airport. Connection times between flights should not be longer than 24 hours and shorter than 6 hours.
> Connection times must be appropriate for our tour schedule: Passengers need to be at the Hotel Desk of the International Arrivals terminal 30 minutes before the start of the tour. Passengers will arrive back at the airport at the scheduled finish time of the tour. Passengers must ensure their flight departure time is at least one and half hour after the finish time of the tour.
> Passengers who have already checked in for their ongoing flight must show their passport and boarding pass to the member of staff at the Hotel Desk.
> Passengers are responsible for making their own visa arrangements for entry into Turkey and any related costs.
> Passengers can find out the visa requirements and related costs for each nationality and passport type at http://www.evisa.gov.tr/en.
> Tours accompanied by an English speaking guide take place from 08:30-11:00,09:00-15:00, 09:00-18:00,12:00-18:00 and 16:00-21:00 every day.
> Tours may be subject to changes due to traffic or weather conditions, public events and restoration programs which are in progress at museums and archaeological sites.
> Tours include museums, historical sites and various religious establishments and for this reason passengers are not allowed to bring pets.
> As passengers are allotted some free time during the tour, those aged under 18 must be accompanied by an adult companion.
> The costs of meals (breakfast/lunch/dinner), transfers, entrance fees to museums and historical sites and the guided tour itself are met by us.
> Passengers should take into account the fact that during the tour they will be required to walk at a medium pace and remain on their feet for long periods of time.
> As this supplementary free service provided by Turkish Airlines is independent from the main contract of carriage and entirely optional, passengers who are unable to take advantage of Touristanbul due to flight delays, late application or other reasons cannot make a claim for compensation or any other demand.


I guess you are talking about Stopover, aren't you?

http://www.turkishairlines.com/tr-tr/ku ... e-kesfedin (TR)
http://www.turkishairlines.com/en-tr/co ... a-stopover (EN)

TK787 wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:

I hope at least one TK manager reads this, feels upset and takes action.

I doubt any TK manager visit this site. I think they do respond to their Facebook page comments.


I don't know about managers but I am pretty sure about that TK's human resources check here :)))
 
User avatar
Yakamoz
Posts: 543
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:30 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:40 pm

mafaky wrote:
Dear Yakamoz,

Landed last Friday afternoon in ZRH.


Are you definitely positive on this? Cannot trace that Irish tail number at all, on FR24. Flightaware only indicates that it has landed at Bangor, Maine (which is expected), but has never left that airport...


Yes. See photos here:
https://twitter.com/AirportWebcams/stat ... 0106792960
 
jmmadrid
Posts: 342
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:00 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:44 pm

LAXintl wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:
I checked with my friend and he would have accepted a city tour during one layover and a room to rest of the overnight flight in the other, but he was offered neither.

The city tour must be requested upon arrival by the passengers. It cannot be booked or offered in advance.

[/i]


Many thanks for your information, I didn't know these options existed (Neither did my friend!)

Just a short mention over the phone while discussing the refund would have triggered my friend's interest and kept his business.
 
User avatar
TK105
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:40 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:30 pm

There are some rumors that TK may be sold to investor(s) from Gulf in near future.
The future is in the skies.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24003
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:47 pm

TK105 wrote:
There are some rumors that TK may be sold to investor(s) from Gulf in near future.


Sure anything is possible, but remember updated (2013) privatization law still requires that 51% of shares must be held in Turkey, and that 3/4 of management be Turkish nationals including all accountable managers.

But I could see the government slowly sell off additional portions of the company, but any foreign partner would at best hold a small minority investment with minimal management/supervisory representation.

There is actually good example of how this works - myCargo(ACT) and myTechnic have HNA Group investment, but the Chinese to their surprise were barred from having much management participation due to ownership laws.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2188
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:24 pm

TK105 wrote:
There are some rumors that TK may be sold to investor(s) from Gulf in near future.

If rumors of TK's 2016 losses are true, it may fit the EY portfolio... :stirthepot:
 
User avatar
globetrotter94
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:05 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:19 am

jmmadrid wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:
I checked with my friend and he would have accepted a city tour during one layover and a room to rest of the overnight flight in the other, but he was offered neither.

The city tour must be requested upon arrival by the passengers. It cannot be booked or offered in advance.

[/i]


Many thanks for your information, I didn't know these options existed (Neither did my friend!)

Just a short mention over the phone while discussing the refund would have triggered my friend's interest and kept his business.


From my experience, the call centers are actually some of the weakest links in Turkish Airlines. Service from the call centers is very variable, depending on the country, and even the specific operator that you talk to. For example, in TK's London office, most operators are perfectly lovely and eager to help, but there is this one guy that I got into a really bad argument with regarding changing the date of travel on a full-fare economy ticket (conditions said 'Changes allowed' when I booked it, but he was reluctant to admit this).
6E, 9W, AF, AI, B6, BA, BI, BR, CA, DN, GA, IC, JL, KB, KL, KU, NH, QR, SQ, TG, TK, UA, VS
 
bahadir
Posts: 1339
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 4:57 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:51 am

EvrenErdem wrote:
According to one of Turkish aviation website, TK agreed with Atlas Air for a wet-leased Boeing 747 cargo and it will start flying for TK in next a couple of days.
http://www.kokpit.aero/thy-atlas-air-b747-kiralama (it's Turkish)


It's replacement of MyCargo 747 's mission. My sources in TK say that it will be doing IST-FRU-HKG and some European destinations.
Earthbound misfit I
 
User avatar
EvrenErdem
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:00 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:29 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
TK105 wrote:
There are some rumors that TK may be sold to investor(s) from Gulf in near future.

If rumors of TK's 2016 losses are true, it may fit the EY portfolio... :stirthepot:


I don't think and believe that the government is going to sell TK.
As you know 49% stocks belonged to Republic of Turkey Prime Ministery Privatization Administiration and all stocks were decided to transfer to Turkey Wealth Found in December 2016. so this year the government did it. TK is not in privatization list anymore.
 
User avatar
TK105
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:40 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:49 am

EvrenErdem wrote:
transfer to Turkey Wealth Found

This Fund has the right to sell TK or any other entity deposited to this Fund freely and without any obligations. Normally, selling TK will be a very long procedure with many administrative and law related layers (i.e. a lengthy privatisation marathon). However this Fund can sell TK in 2 minutes as easy as selling a chewing gum.
The future is in the skies.
 
User avatar
EvrenErdem
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:00 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:19 pm

TK105 wrote:
This Fund has the right to sell TK or any other entity deposited to this Fund freely and without any obligations. Normally, selling TK will be a very long procedure with many administrative and law related layers (i.e. a lengthy privatisation marathon). However this Fund can sell TK in 2 minutes as easy as selling a chewing gum.


Unfortunately, yes, you are right about this.... I don't have another word to say....
 
LJ
Posts: 4945
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:18 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
from a strictly legal point of view, they had no obligation to offer a refund for a schedule change, but did so anyway. It's not all bad, after all...


MalevTU134 wrote:
100% sure. It says so in the Terms of Carriage in your ticket. They can rebook you for, say, 4 days later, and you still have no legal right to a refund. A ticket is basically a contract where the airline is obliged to make its best endeavour to take you from A to B, but the time and date is not contractually binding for the airline in any way. So, a rescheduling of your flights does not entitle you to a refund. Now, many, if not most, airlines do offer you a refund in these cases, but they are in no way obliged to do so.


Actually not entirely correct as the passenger originated in the EU (at least if the poster says he paid in GBP I assume he comes from the UK) and travels from the EU to a final destination outside of the EU. As such the EU laws are applicable and regardless of what TK puts into its T&C, it must offer a refund based if the extra travel time exceeds the threshold of an extra 4 hours (if the cancellation article applies) or 5 hours (when the delay article is used). Note that this doesn't apply when only the return leg would see a schedule change of more than the threshold.

OA260 wrote:
That will be welcome news ( of sorts ) to the hoteliers and tourism industry in AYT. Any tourism generated is helpful even if they are not as lucrative as Western European tourists.


Not for those hotels who are now advertising their hotel as being "Russian-free" here in Western Europe.
 
Freshside3
Posts: 1590
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:11 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:37 pm

[photoid][/photoid]
NichCage wrote:
miaintl wrote:
How is TK now preforming in the US? have the loads improved? I am interested in Miami, Atlanta, and Houston. Which is the best preforming of the three now?


I'm sure Miami is doing good. Not related to how well the route is doing, I'm sure a lot of Jewish and Israeli passengers are flying MIA-IST-TLV and TLV-IST-MIA as direct flights between MIA and TLV do not exist.

Similarly with ORD-IST. Direct flights do not exist from ORD to TLV, ATH or ODS. Enough Jewish passengers in Chicago to warrant a non-daily flight, but neither AA/LY/UA are doing it. Despite some people not using the IST connection for "political correctness" reasons, TK still manages to get their fair share of ORD-ATH bookings. As for ODS, not everyone going to Ukraine is going to KBP. TK is one of the few carriers that can connect to ODS.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2188
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:41 pm

LJ wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
from a strictly legal point of view, they had no obligation to offer a refund for a schedule change, but did so anyway. It's not all bad, after all...


MalevTU134 wrote:
100% sure. It says so in the Terms of Carriage in your ticket. They can rebook you for, say, 4 days later, and you still have no legal right to a refund. A ticket is basically a contract where the airline is obliged to make its best endeavour to take you from A to B, but the time and date is not contractually binding for the airline in any way. So, a rescheduling of your flights does not entitle you to a refund. Now, many, if not most, airlines do offer you a refund in these cases, but they are in no way obliged to do so.


Actually not entirely correct as the passenger originated in the EU (at least if the poster says he paid in GBP I assume he comes from the UK) and travels from the EU to a final destination outside of the EU. As such the EU laws are applicable and regardless of what TK puts into its T&C, it must offer a refund based if the extra travel time exceeds the threshold of an extra 4 hours (if the cancellation article applies) or 5 hours (when the delay article is used). Note that this doesn't apply when only the return leg would see a schedule change of more than the threshold.


Apples and oranges. What you say is correct to delays and flight cancellations. This is not a delay. This is a rescheduling of the flight, which is not covered by the EU laws on passenger compensation.

OA260 wrote:
That will be welcome news ( of sorts ) to the hoteliers and tourism industry in AYT. Any tourism generated is helpful even if they are not as lucrative as Western European tourists.


LJ wrote:
Not for those hotels who are now advertising their hotel as being "Russian-free" here in Western Europe.

I was going to write the same days ago, but didn't want to end up in bringing the thread to nationalistic outbursts. But you are absolutely correct.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24003
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:27 pm

Some new routes for summer.

AtlasGlobal will launch IST-Sarajevo by "summer".

Turkish Airlines adds another Russian market, IST-Voronezh effective 04 April - 3x weekly.

TK105 wrote:
This Fund has the right to sell TK or any other entity deposited to this Fund freely and without any obligations. Normally, selling TK will be a very long procedure with many administrative and law related layers (i.e. a lengthy privatisation marathon). However this Fund can sell TK in 2 minutes as easy as selling a chewing gum.

Remember that even if this was the case, restrictions and rules on things like foreign ownership must still be complied with.

Already TK has significant percentage of foreign shareholders and has a limit that no more than 40% of total issued capital can be in the hands of non-Turkish investors.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
mafaky
Posts: 712
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:04 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:57 pm

Atlas will also be flying IST-BEG on daily basis, starting from March 15th...
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
User avatar
MiamiSpec
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:22 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:05 pm

Average load for MIA-IST is about 78%. https://www.transtats.bts.gov/Data_Elements.aspx?Sel=1
 
User avatar
MiamiSpec
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:22 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:14 pm

NichCage wrote:
miaintl wrote:
How is TK now preforming in the US? have the loads improved? I am interested in Miami, Atlanta, and Houston. Which is the best preforming of the three now?


I'm sure Miami is doing good. Not related to how well the route is doing, I'm sure a lot of Jewish and Israeli passengers are flying MIA-IST-TLV and TLV-IST-MIA as direct flights between MIA and TLV do not exist.

Atlanta will be downgraded from a 77W to A333, but the route seems to be doing well at the moment.

Houston has been flown for quite a while now, and other than frequency reductions it must be doing well at the moment.


El Al is in talks with MIA administration about returning. It will be interesting to see how much of a chunk that takes out of the market.
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4552
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:45 pm

mafaky wrote:
Atlas will also be flying IST-BEG on daily basis, starting from March 15th...


Yes was posted by LAXIntl, along with JAT dropping IST. Will be 3 Turkish carriers serving BEG soon.
mercure f-wtcc
 
User avatar
AirbusA343
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:38 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:45 pm

Don't know if it's been mentioned but I think TC-JUD (A319) is with Shaheen Air now.
 
User avatar
TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4242
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:38 pm

From Routesonline:
"Turkish Airlines in last week’s schedule update made further adjustment to planned Istanbul Ataturk – New York JFK operation, in particular for flights between 31MAY17 and 28OCT17. The airline previously planned 14 weekly 777-300ER and 7 weekly A330-300 service, however this is now revised to 12 and 9 weekly respectively.

TK003 IST0645 – 1045JFK 333 D
TK001 IST1335 – 1730JFK 77W D
TK011 IST1810 – 2215JFK 333 14
TK011 IST1810 – 2215JFK 77W x14

TK004 JFK1225 – 0515+1IST 333 D
TK002 JFK1910 – 1155+1IST 77W D
TK012 JFK2355 – 1645+1IST 333 14
TK012 JFK2355 – 1645+1IST 77W x14"
 
User avatar
EvrenErdem
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:00 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:27 pm

According to Kokpit.aero (A Turkish aviation website), TK cancels these routes in those paticular days in March 2017 due to low passenger load factor.
Atlanta: 7 – 21 Mart 2017
New York: 2, 6, 7, 13, 22, 28, 29 Mart 2017 (TK3 ve TK4)
Miami: 12, 19, 26 Mart 2017
Washington DC: 7, 21, 28 Mart 2017
San Francisco: 7, 13, 15 Mart 2017
Los Angeles: 21 Mart 2017
Houston: 24, 29 Mart 2017

Source; http://www.kokpit.aero/thy-abd-sefer-iptali (Turkish)
 
User avatar
TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4242
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:39 pm

-If the above cancellation list true, it is very telling :(
MIA with 3 Sunday flights cancelling, does that mean IST-MIA flights have only holiday travelers and no one wants to start a holiday arriving Sunday night in MIA, missing most of the cruises that leave usually on Saturdays?

-Also, looks like TK183 IST-Havana is diverted to IAD for technical reasons (engine out?) with 175 pax on board, 70% load.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 23747
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:51 pm

TK787 wrote:
If the above cancellation list true, it is very telling :(
MIA with 3 Sunday flights cancelling, does that mean IST-MIA flights have only holiday travelers and no one wants to start a holiday arriving Sunday night in MIA, missing most of the cruises that leave usually on Saturdays?


Could be a host of reasons but your right if going on the cruises many of them depart 4-5pm on a Sunday and passengers usually fly on a Saturday and overnight in Miami area before boarding the ships on a Sunday.
 
User avatar
TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4242
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:15 pm

OA260 wrote:
TK787 wrote:
If the above cancellation list true, it is very telling :(
MIA with 3 Sunday flights cancelling, does that mean IST-MIA flights have only holiday travelers and no one wants to start a holiday arriving Sunday night in MIA, missing most of the cruises that leave usually on Saturdays?


Could be a host of reasons but your right if going on the cruises many of them depart 4-5pm on a Sunday and passengers usually fly on a Saturday and overnight in Miami area before boarding the ships on a Sunday.

You are correct. Arriving on Sunday night from TK77 at 8:35pm, if any cruise pax they will go on the next day, Monday, on cruises leaving in the afternoon.
I just did a quick look and there are 6 ships leaving; on that first Monday March 13th, from Miami. Also 1 leaving from Fort Lauderdale, 2 from Port Caneveral, and 1 from Tampa.
But still, not sure about the Turkish cruise pax impact on this flight. If it was me, I would like to fly Friday out of IST and take a Saturday leaving cruise.
 
stylo777
Posts: 2750
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:30 pm

EvrenErdem wrote:
According to Kokpit.aero (A Turkish aviation website), TK cancels these routes in those paticular days in March 2017 due to low passenger load factor.
Atlanta: 7 – 21 Mart 2017
New York: 2, 6, 7, 13, 22, 28, 29 Mart 2017 (TK3 ve TK4)
Miami: 12, 19, 26 Mart 2017
Washington DC: 7, 21, 28 Mart 2017
San Francisco: 7, 13, 15 Mart 2017
Los Angeles: 21 Mart 2017
Houston: 24, 29 Mart 2017

Source; http://www.kokpit.aero/thy-abd-sefer-iptali (Turkish)

Specific cancelations in low season is in my opinion not a bad thing; to announce it just a few weeks prior is another story. Most established airlines just don't plan the flights and publish the winter schedule in their GDS accordingly.
More shockingly for me is the full cancelation of ATL. The route must be performing really bad.
 
LJ
Posts: 4945
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:55 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
LJ wrote:
Actually not entirely correct as the passenger originated in the EU (at least if the poster says he paid in GBP I assume he comes from the UK) and travels from the EU to a final destination outside of the EU. As such the EU laws are applicable and regardless of what TK puts into its T&C, it must offer a refund based if the extra travel time exceeds the threshold of an extra 4 hours (if the cancellation article applies) or 5 hours (when the delay article is used). Note that this doesn't apply when only the return leg would see a schedule change of more than the threshold.


Apples and oranges. What you say is correct to delays and flight cancellations. This is not a delay. This is a rescheduling of the flight, which is not covered by the EU laws on passenger compensation. /quote]

The EU considers a rescheduling the same as a delay. It uses article 6 sub 1iii for this purpose as it wants to avoid passengers claiming compansation even when the reseschudling takes place within 2 weeks (though when your flight is cancelled one can use this excuse to get compensation).

In other, somehow related, news, the British CAA named and shamed 5 non-EU airlines for not responfding correctly to passengers who filed a complain based on EU Directive 261/2004 (and refuse to pay compensation). The five are American Airlines, Emirates, Etihad, Singapore Airlines and Turkish Airlines. The CAA did'n't publish what it inteds to do against these 5 airlines, but it seems that they only get a warning.

http://www.caa.co.uk/News/Five-major-airlines-face-enforcement-action-for-denying-passengers-compensation-for-delayed-flights/
 
User avatar
mafaky
Posts: 712
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:04 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:58 pm

Also, looks like TK183 IST-Havana is diverted to IAD for technical reasons (engine out?) with 175 pax on board, 70% load.


Don't yet know what has been the real cause of that diversion to IAD, but what catched my interest has been the 70% load factor. It actually looks good to me; I was expecting figures in the 50-60% region. Cannot tell, if this 70% factor has been specific to this particular flight, or more of a consistent one, though.

Well, we all know that HAV is mostly a tourist destination from IST. And, indeed there are several tour operators on this market, enjoying nice occupancy since the last few years. One is done by an old friend of mine and she also was a TK higher-ranked employee until 2004 or so... (Naturally her job was terminated based on not "so normal or routine" reasons with the 2002-afterwards Management at TK :cry: ). Now all these tours are exclusively using TK or KLM.

I asked her the reason why she doesn't want to use TK. he had two basic answers: "1) Ticket pricing, 2) TK started news/rumours about this route pretty early but the service was not started. Then they started all of a sudden, with just few weeks in advance. But all tour operators have deals inked with AF/KLM on long term for best pricing. So we all still have long time to start negotiating with TK!" :banghead:
.
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
User avatar
mafaky
Posts: 712
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:04 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:03 pm

More shockingly for me is the full cancelation of ATL. The route must be performing really bad.


I had the same understanding as you had so spared the time to check on TK's flights between those dates, day by day. It happens to be a typographical mistake: only the flights on 7th & 21st March have been cancelled. But, in any case, TK hasn't been flying to ATL daily and in S17 they are downgrading equipment from B77W to A333. :? :(
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
User avatar
TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4242
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:06 pm

Finally, Last pax TK 77W, -LJK is scheduled for its first flight shortly this evening:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE549
 
miaintl
Posts: 776
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:31 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:28 am

I wonder if OS and QR are benefiting in MIA from TK's decreased presence? I think TK will start cutting many US routes this year.
 
User avatar
mafaky
Posts: 712
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:04 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:51 am

TK183, diverted to IAD, while on to IST-HAV-CCS still seems to be on ground at IAD and its onwards flights are all cancelled. Wonder, what the pax destined for HAV and/or CCS be doing at IAD, as some of them may not even have valid visas for entry to USA soil. Of course,it was a clever move on behalf of TK183's crew that they decided to divert to IAD as the plane can be serviced/maintained there fully, rather than in CCS. Rumoured to be an engine problem.
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2188
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:30 am

mafaky wrote:
TK183, diverted to IAD, while on to IST-HAV-CCS still seems to be on ground at IAD and its onwards flights are all cancelled. Wonder, what the pax destined for HAV and/or CCS be doing at IAD, as some of them may not even have valid visas for entry to USA soil. Of course,it was a clever move on behalf of TK183's crew that they decided to divert to IAD as the plane can be serviced/maintained there fully, rather than in CCS. Rumoured to be an engine problem.


The flight was on its way to HAV, I suppose, so that was the other option. They had an engine ready there for them:

https://www.google.co.ve/search?q=home+ ... wBVmGRGSBM:

but the Captain declined. Said he needed GE, not GM.

Seriously, having passengers land unexpectedly in countries where they normally couldn't enter without a visa is no big issue, it happens quite often, sometimes even in "hostile" countries. (Remember the NW DC-10 that had to divert to THR (or IKA?) a decade or so ago?) Even CU has had forced landings in the US in the past (way before the thaw of relations), passengers were held in the terminal until flown to their destination. The bulk of the passengers on this flight are normally Turkish and Venezuelan, I suppose, both of which need a US visa.

I would be more worried about the passengers waiting to board at HAV and CCS, both of which have relatively limited scheduled service to Europe, so not too many options to rebook them. Maybe connect them to BOG/PTY ?
 
User avatar
Yakamoz
Posts: 543
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:30 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:34 pm

mafaky wrote:
Also, looks like TK183 IST-Havana is diverted to IAD for technical reasons (engine out?) with 175 pax on board, 70% load.


Don't yet know what has been the real cause of that diversion to IAD, but what catched my interest has been the 70% load factor. It actually looks good to me; I was expecting figures in the 50-60% region. Cannot tell, if this 70% factor has been specific to this particular flight, or more of a consistent one, though.

Well, we all know that HAV is mostly a tourist destination from IST. And, indeed there are several tour operators on this market, enjoying nice occupancy since the last few years. One is done by an old friend of mine and she also was a TK higher-ranked employee until 2004 or so... (Naturally her job was terminated based on not "so normal or routine" reasons with the 2002-afterwards Management at TK :cry: ). Now all these tours are exclusively using TK or KLM.

I asked her the reason why she doesn't want to use TK. he had two basic answers: "1) Ticket pricing, 2) TK started news/rumours about this route pretty early but the service was not started. Then they started all of a sudden, with just few weeks in advance. But all tour operators have deals inked with AF/KLM on long term for best pricing. So we all still have long time to start negotiating with TK!" :banghead:
.


CEO Bilal Eksi wrote today on Twitter their new Havana-Caracas route has a load factor of %65 which is good for them.
 
User avatar
TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4242
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:54 pm

mafaky wrote:
Of course,it was a clever move on behalf of TK183's crew that they decided to divert to IAD as the plane can be serviced/maintained there fully, rather than in CCS. Rumoured to be an engine problem.

I doubt that TK183 would have continued all the way to Havana on one engine even if they wanted to.
On one engine, they had to power up and use more fuel on one engine to compensate and not sure if they had enough fuel to reach Havana under those conditions. Also, not sure if it is legal, had to divert to a suitable airport ASAP. Maybe someone can correct me.
BA 747 comes to mind when it lost one of its engines during take off at LAX and decided to continue to England, eventually had to land and refuel in Ireland.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2188
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:14 pm

TK787 wrote:
mafaky wrote:
Of course,it was a clever move on behalf of TK183's crew that they decided to divert to IAD as the plane can be serviced/maintained there fully, rather than in CCS. Rumoured to be an engine problem.

I doubt that TK183 would have continued all the way to Havana on one engine even if they wanted to.
On one engine, they had to power up and use more fuel on one engine to compensate and not sure if they had enough fuel to reach Havana under those conditions. Also, not sure if it is legal, had to divert to a suitable airport ASAP. Maybe someone can correct me.
BA 747 comes to mind when it lost one of its engines during take off at LAX and decided to continue to England, eventually had to land and refuel in Ireland.

In the BA case that plane had 3 serviceable engines left, this TK A332 had only one. Huge difference. Have a look over at the "Crossing the Atlantic with 3 out of 4 engines" thread for a more detailed discussion on this issue. As I understand, they were above South Carolina when they lost the engine, so no more than 2 hours from HAV. They would probably have had enough fuel, and I'm sure TK's A332s are certified to fly 120 minutes ETOPS, based on the routes they routinely fly. But ending up in HAV with possibly needing a change of engines is not a good option at all. Probably one of the worst in the region. So IAD made total sense. The only advantage in getting into HAV is making the 70-80% of the passengers happy, as that is where they are going...
 
OGLOBAL
Posts: 199
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:29 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:12 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:
A friend of mine is planning a trip to Seychelles with his wife in late March. He was doubting between flying Ethiopian (the cheapest), Turkish (second cheapest) and Qatar (more expensive but shortest layover). His first decision was to choose Ehiopian but I convinced him to choose Turkish instead. Two days later he received an email saying that the times of their flights had been changed and offered a new itinerary with a 10-hour layover in IST both ways. He was also given the option to receive a refund, which he accepted. To his surprise, he was told that the refund will take...... 3 MONTHS! ...... My friend calls this a 0% interest compulsory loan and he's not happy about it because those 2000 pounds account for a big proportion of his budget. He could not cancel the hotel that had already been paid for, so he had to fork out another 2500 pounds and purchase new tickets with Qatar.

I´m aware that Turkish are neither the first nor the sole airline to change their itineraries, nothing wrong with this, but requiring 3 months to process a refund of tickets paid with a credit card two days ago is insulting.

Welcome to TK customer care. As long as you're onboard one of their planes or in their lounges, service is usually between good and fabulous. Anything else is usually between pathetic and horrendous. It really feels like two separate companies or organisations. This, as I have stated earlier, is one if TK's big problems. I suppose they have lost your friend and his wife, maybe you and a few acquaintances as well, as customers forever...and over an administrative thing that just shouldn't be an issue. Of course there is no reason why this should take 3 months. Having said that, and looking at it from a strictly legal point of view, they had no obligation to offer a refund for a schedule change, but did so anyway. It's not all bad, after all...


i received my refund after 3 days it did say within 8 weeks i dunno if it was me yelling on the phone and threatening with lawsuit that made them refund me quicker or if it was a normal procedure
 
User avatar
TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4242
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:13 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
TK787 wrote:
mafaky wrote:
As I understand, they were above South Carolina when they lost the engine, so no more than 2 hours from HAV. .

From what I can find out, here is the TK 183 timeline:
-4:40pm heading 227deg at 400kt @ 38,000
-4:44pm heading 227deg at 400kt @32,000 (I think somewhere here they lost the engine)
-4:48pm heading 242deg at 380kt @30,000 (I think this is where they changed route for IAD)
-5:41 to 6:50pm............... at 350kt @26,000
-7:12pm landed at IAD
So, after assuming that they lost one engine around 4:40pm, TK 183 continued on to IAD for about 2.5 hrs.
From what I can find out; at the point of losing that engine the plane was 2216km from Havana and only 1189km from IAD.
Probably our pilot friends here can chime in, but it took TK183 around 2.5hrs to travel 1189km on one engine to IAD.
Using those numbers, it would have taken them over 4.5 hours to fly to Havana, if they had enough fuel on board.

Further research, I found out that A330 burns average 5.5 tons fuel an hour. Toward the end of the trip, (since the plane is lighter) probably less.
From the Airbus330 Handbook it says, if your plane is 200tons and you loose an engine go down to 22,000 and 380kts to minimize fuel burn. TK 183 by going down to 26,000 feet and 350kts optimized its fuel burn and was using around 6 tons of fuel an hour.
If all my calculations are good.... yes you are correct, it would have made it to Havana on one engine in 4.5 hours by burning .5 tons more fuel an hour than usual, which they would have carried in their reserves. But like I said earlier, ETOPS or not, this emergency requires landing at the nearest suitable airfield.
 
User avatar
mafaky
Posts: 712
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:04 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:31 pm

A question that those with "reliable antennas" may answer:

The first of the seven ex-Skymark / IAP A333s entered service with TK during the last few days of 2016 (reg.: TC-LOE). This bird started its flights in a short while, and flew to many domestic & international destinations. With the exception of more frequent IST-ES & IST-ADB flights you may classify these flights as "orientation flights", domestically it even flew to Adana & Trabzon which are not typical 330 destinations. These ex-Skymark birds cannot take TK's ER flights over the Atlantic or to Far East, so they typically can replace the grounded 332s for medium-haul services to Europe, Middle East & Africa. The only "unusual" thing seems to be this bird flew only to ESB and/or ADB only once per day, for a week during mid-February. Nowadays, it seems to have returned back to the usual/routine schedules... So far, so good!...

But then the second bird of this series (the TC-LOF) arrived to IST at early morning hours on 10th February.

But this bird didn't take off even an inch from the ground, since its landing at IST.

Anybody, has any reasonable explanation for this"temporary" grounding???
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
User avatar
alaturka
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:14 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:21 am

OGLOBAL wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:
A friend of mine is planning a trip to Seychelles with his wife in late March. He was doubting between flying Ethiopian (the cheapest), Turkish (second cheapest) and Qatar (more expensive but shortest layover). His first decision was to choose Ehiopian but I convinced him to choose Turkish instead. Two days later he received an email saying that the times of their flights had been changed and offered a new itinerary with a 10-hour layover in IST both ways. He was also given the option to receive a refund, which he accepted. To his surprise, he was told that the refund will take...... 3 MONTHS! ...... My friend calls this a 0% interest compulsory loan and he's not happy about it because those 2000 pounds account for a big proportion of his budget. He could not cancel the hotel that had already been paid for, so he had to fork out another 2500 pounds and purchase new tickets with Qatar.

I´m aware that Turkish are neither the first nor the sole airline to change their itineraries, nothing wrong with this, but requiring 3 months to process a refund of tickets paid with a credit card two days ago is insulting.

Welcome to TK customer care. As long as you're onboard one of their planes or in their lounges, service is usually between good and fabulous. Anything else is usually between pathetic and horrendous. It really feels like two separate companies or organisations. This, as I have stated earlier, is one if TK's big problems. I suppose they have lost your friend and his wife, maybe you and a few acquaintances as well, as customers forever...and over an administrative thing that just shouldn't be an issue. Of course there is no reason why this should take 3 months. Having said that, and looking at it from a strictly legal point of view, they had no obligation to offer a refund for a schedule change, but did so anyway. It's not all bad, after all...


i received my refund after 3 days it did say within 8 weeks i dunno if it was me yelling on the phone and threatening with lawsuit that made them refund me quicker or if it was a normal procedure


It's kind a turkish mentality. I regularly fly TK in domestic, even in 15 minutes schedule change they offer me refund and if I was accepted mostly say you will be recevied your money a couple of weeks. But moslt when I check my credit cards transactions, already refunded in a couple of days. So IMO They tend to give you legal refund times to avoid any unwanted costumer recalls.
 
User avatar
TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4242
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:46 pm

8 years ago today, TK 1951 crashed at AMS, killing 9 pax/crew on board :(
I still remember getting up in NYC, turning on CNN like I always did then and the first image was a broken TK bird, and it felt terrible.
RIP to all who lost their lives that day and we take it granted for most of the time but,
Safe landings to all.
I tried to find the "Turkish Aviation February 2009" thread to see what we talked about then, but couldn't. If you could, please add the link. Thanks.
 
User avatar
TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4242
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:50 pm

Here are the latest pics from the Istanbul 3rd Airport to be opened less than 12 months later :)
http://www.kokpit.aero/son-durum-25-subat-2017
 
leftyboarder
Posts: 894
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:38 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:28 am

TK787 wrote:
Here are the latest pics from the Istanbul 3rd Airport to be opened less than 12 months later :)
http://www.kokpit.aero/son-durum-25-subat-2017


Doesn't look like either of the two initial runways is ready. I think they should postpone it to 26 February 2019 if they don't want to fail at this.
 
User avatar
mafaky
Posts: 712
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:04 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:56 am

Well, we all know the reason behind that particular date of 26th Feb. Of course, with all good willing one may expect that the said honorable person will be able to celebratee his birthdays on 2019, 2020, 2021, and so on so forth!...

However the deadline that IGA Consortium to start operations from the New Airport is 28th or 30th of October 2018 (nothing to do with the official foundation date of Turkish Republic). It's due to the BOT Agreement they have signed (without hesitation!...) :cry: Otherwise, for every passing day, they have to start paying penalties to the State. :banghead:
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
User avatar
TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4242
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: Turkish Aviation February 2017

Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:39 pm

Any ideas why TK1753 Istanbul-Oslo flight is operated by a 77W today?
https://www.flightradar24.com/THY1MS/c935b72

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos