Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
oldannyboy
Topic Author
Posts: 2623
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:48 am

Dear Friends,

I remember when the Mercure was flying for Air Inter. I was always intrigued by this 737 look-alike (and with whom it shared engines), and I always thought it was sad that it didn't enjoy more success.. allegedly because of a lack in operating range? It did however have a long, successful, accident-free career at Air Inter.

I was wondering if any of you ever had a chance to ride this beautiful airliner, and if so what you thought of it. Also, did anyone know if the aircraft was ever used on international routes (and by that I mean on behalf of AF, or on charters); and additionally if anyone has any information on operational quirks or characteristics of this rare and often forgotten aircraft....

Thank You all.
 
Someone83
Posts: 5254
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:06 pm

The lack of range was probably the key factor, together with the case it came at the same time as the oil crisis and following economic difficulties of the early 70s.

At 1700km range at full payload, the joke that Mercure didn't achieve any sales outside France as it didn't have the range to fly out of France, was sort of almost true
 
BlueberryWheats
Posts: 751
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:46 am

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:06 pm

I remember reading that it was often joked that the Mercure never sold outside France because it never had the range to leave France.

It's a shame, I always liked the Mercure. Apparently it was more like a military aircraft in design (control systems etc)
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
BlueberryWheats
Posts: 751
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:46 am

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:07 pm

Ah! "Someone" beat me to it.
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
User avatar
cv990Coronado
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:38 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:41 pm

I flew on the Mercure from PAR (Can't remember the airport) to MRS in 84. I remember it seemed comfortable inside, not sure if the cabin was the same width as the 737. It's nice to say one has flown on such a rare aircraft. I have been lucky to fly on a few other fairly rare ones such as the Convair 880, Junkers JU 52 and Concorde.
SSC-707B727 737-741234SP757/762/3/772/WA300/10/319/2/1-342/3/6-880-DAM-VC10 TRD 111 Ju52-DC8/9/10/11-YS11-748-VCV DH4B L
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2189
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:45 pm

I had a lovely, smooth but noisy ride on one of Air Inter's Mercures CDG-MRS in 1990. Memorable flight.
I think the range issue is exaggerated, I mean, what was the range of the 737-100, its main competitor of the time?
The DAM (not Damascus, but the abbreviation for the Dassault Mercure in the reservation systems, for those of you who weren't around) flew routinely from France to Morocco and probably other Maghreb destinations as well. Don't remember if it was AF or IT code on those flights, or both...

Such a lovely bird, too bad there were so few of them ever built (11, if memory serves me right).
Last edited by MalevTU134 on Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
WIederling
Posts: 10022
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:46 pm

BlueberryWheats wrote:
Ah! "Someone" beat me to it.


Ground Hog Day. Forever. Horray!
Murphy is an optimist
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5335
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:02 pm

The limited range was indeed a handicap to sell the Dassault Mercure abroad. However, Air Inter used the Mercure on several European routes : ORY-IBZ, ORY-AGP, ORY-MAD, ORY-LGW, ORY-PMI and more, so the range was not that limited.
Dring its certification, Dassault flew a Mercure from BOD to CMN.
Dassault tried to attract important airlines of that time, as well as regional airlines in presenting he Mercure as the successor of the DC9 (There was already a project of a Mercure 200 bigger with a longer range and the will to create a "family" of similar aircraft). Some airlines showed some interest but never placed order. Due to the economical difficulties (oil crisis, devaluation of the dollar etc.) and a market dominated by Boeing and Douglas it was hard to convince airlines to buy a brand new aircraft from a manufacturer known until then for its military jet fighters, and despite the Mercure showing operational costs inferior by 25% compared to its competitors.
Some political reasons and "pressure" came out also : Europe wanted to set up the Airbus Consortium and nobody wanted a competition between european manufacturers. The project of a Mercure 200 was abandoned by Dassault… and became later more or less the A300.

Technically, the Mercure was a great aircraft. Very safe. The pilot loved it and used to call it "the jet fighter".
 
Someone83
Posts: 5254
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:08 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
I think the range issue is exaggerated, I mean, what was the range of the 737-100, its main competitor of the time?.


The range was a little more, but the 737-100 shared many issues with the Mercury, and with only 30 aircraft produced it can't be said to be a success (although of course it was the basis for other 737s versions to come)
 
oldannyboy
Topic Author
Posts: 2623
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:29 pm

ThankYou all for your precious feedback. Much appreciated!
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 11705
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:36 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
I think the range issue is exaggerated, I mean, what was the range of the 737-100, its main competitor of the time?

It should be noted that the Mercure is much larger than the 737-100 (and -200). It was almost equivalent to the later 737-400 in size.
 
GianiDC
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:30 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:36 pm

I remember reading in a book that the main problem wasn´t necessarily the range but the tanks were too small so that you had to refuel after every flight. Is this information right?
 
MainelyRick
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:49 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:36 pm

The Mercure performed a lively demonstration at the Paris Air Show in 1971. I vaguely recall that the company booth inside was mostly a Mercure booth.
 
kelval
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:09 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:52 pm

I didn't get to fly the Mercure, but my grandfather did.
It was said to be damn fast for an airliner, and that the pilots took pride in making the fastest block to block times they could.
My grandfather did report a time when he was bleeding from both ears after the flight. Never got to know if it was from cabin low pressure or from a fast descent.
 
WIederling
Posts: 10022
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:53 pm

GianiDC wrote:
I remember reading in a book that the main problem wasn´t necessarily the range but the tanks were too small so that you had to refuel after every flight. Is this information right?


Hmm.
useable size of tanks ~= range.
:-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 22075
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:03 pm

Polot wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
I think the range issue is exaggerated, I mean, what was the range of the 737-100, its main competitor of the time?

It should be noted that the Mercure is much larger than the 737-100 (and -200). It was almost equivalent to the later 737-400 in size.

The Mercury was competing with the 4,800km range 737-200. Yes, almost triple the range and airlines in the Americas wanted more range!

If the 737-100 was competing with the Mercure, the 737-100 would have sold more. Instead it was the -200.

While the Mercury had size there are certain range thresholds required for resale. For it isn't just buying a plane, the financing company wants to know they can resell the collateral.

With such low range, there was no way to get a Mercury across the Atlantic. At that time, over half the market was the Americas, so there was a day 1 handicap. Getting the 737-100s to LH was a challenge itself.

Boeing could sell 737s to the world. Dassault was limited where they could sell due to the range. 1,700km range meant great circle route planning of only 850nm or so. Not much flexibility.

The 737-100 had 2,700km range and the airlines rejected the type. For example, DTW or ORD to South Florida was a challenge for the 2,200nm DC-9. Delta wanted more range, and got it in the MD-80, from ATL.

It was also support. Due to the cold war, US aviation companies were everywhere.

Lightsaber

PS, late edit:
The Mercure entered service 9 years after the DC-9. A wee bit late for JT8D powered aircraft to compete...
6 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 6488
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:09 pm

I used to fly it (and the Caravelle) a lot between CDG and TLS as we did our recurrent training in TLS on the A300 and A310. Honestly, unless one knew better, you'd just think it was an A320 or 737. But, it was a lot more comfortable than the ITs A300s that also flew the route!

I understand a lot of the enginnering and advances that eventually ended up in the A320 series aircraft originated on the Mercure. Also, as it was designed from the start as a short haul aircraft, it could do it more efficiently than anything else in the day. Everything is a trade off.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
oldannyboy
Topic Author
Posts: 2623
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:14 pm

Polot wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
I think the range issue is exaggerated, I mean, what was the range of the 737-100, its main competitor of the time?

It should be noted that the Mercure is much larger than the 737-100 (and -200). It was almost equivalent to the later 737-400 in size.


Yes, maximum seating capacity was *I think* for 156..
 
GianiDC
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:30 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:44 pm

WIederling wrote:
GianiDC wrote:
I remember reading in a book that the main problem wasn´t necessarily the range but the tanks were too small so that you had to refuel after every flight. Is this information right?


Hmm.
useable size of tanks ~= range.
:-)


What a shocker. ;)

What I meant is that f.e. a route like ORY-MRS-ORY the plane had to be refueled in MRS before doing the return flight thus prolonging the ground time which we all know is something you don´t want to have.
But perhaps I got it wrong.
 
titus95
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:52 am

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:27 pm

Sabena and Air France were the killers for the Mercure , by NOT ordering it.

Sabena choose the 732 over the Mercure to replace theirs SE210s , and Air France did the same by rejecting an offer by Dassault for both versions 100 and 200.
After both these failures , Dassault was no more on the race to try to sell it at other Airlines.

All pilots at Air Inter having flown it , were in love with it ! A true fighter !
Merci Monsieur Marcel Dassault.
 
B777LRF
Posts: 2821
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:52 pm

GianiDC wrote:
What I meant is that f.e. a route like ORY-MRS-ORY the plane had to be refueled in MRS before doing the return flight thus prolonging the ground time which we all know is something you don´t want to have.
But perhaps I got it wrong.


You did get it slightly wrong. Refuelling a short-haul aircraft will never have a negative impact on ground time; the time needed to get pax off, prepare the cabin and get the next lot of SLF onboard, is way beyond the time needed to refuel the aircraft.

It is, however, standard practice to only load the fuel you need for a given flight, unless fuel at your destination is either a) unavailable or b) very expensive. In those cases an airline may opt to 'tanker fuel', that is to carry enough fuel to complete both the outbound and inbound legs. But that's the exception, not the rule.
Signature. You just read one.
 
dergay
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:42 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:12 pm

:D
oldannyboy wrote:
Dear Friends,

. Also, did anyone know if the aircraft was ever used on international routes (and by that I mean on behalf of AF, or on charters); and additionally if anyone has any information on operational quirks or characteristics of this rare and often forgotten aircraft....

Thank You all.


I have recollection of logging the Mercure at DUB in January 1975 (probably a rugby charter) and also at SNN in August 1975, accompanied by an Air Inter SE-210 (no idea why!). Love to have welcomed more of them..................
Flown on A300,A310,A318,A319,A320,A321,A330,B707,B720,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,L382,L1011,C5,DC-3,DC8,
 
planeophilic
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 6:18 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:17 pm

Although I never got to fly, but I remember hearing the 'Its truly French, because that's all where it can go' joke more than once.
IQ 6969- If I wasn't addicted to Frog Porn, I would be perfect.
 
User avatar
DLHAM
Posts: 616
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:10 am

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:19 pm

As a 4 year old I had the pleasure to fly on a Mercure between CDG and DUB (I dont remember if it was both ways on the Mercure). It was in 1993. We came from HAM on AF.

As I was that young I dont remember much details, just the weird looking engines compared to other airliners.
I also remember that we boarded through one of those Mobile Lounges either in CDG or DUB.
My Instagram Account: Instagram
 
PaulYUL
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:36 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:42 pm

I flew the Mercure many times between ORY and MRS/TLS/LYS. Generally speaking the pilots loved the airplane (fighter like and fun to fly according to some of my friends who were flying it for Air Inter) but passengers were not as exited by the capacity of the aircraft to accelerate and decelerate quickly. That was exacerbated by the culture of Air Inter to shorten flight time as much as possible (visual approaches were used as much as possible and stabilized approached were mostly unknown except for CAT3) . I remenber a flight between LYS (old Bron Airport) and ORY where I stayed 45 minutes in the airplane (I was flying non rev and was the last to board and the first on out). I was also told, when interning at the MRS TWR, that they would start the downwind for a visual on RWY 31 at 350 kts in spite of the fact that you had to turn quickly on base because of the L'Estaque hills south of the airport.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:44 pm

I guess the Bombardier C series has a gratuitous amount of range partly for this reason.

But still, a shame that the Mercure did not get further development, unless you consider the A320 to be that development. Maybe it is, but the Dassault touch was likely lost!
 
timz
Posts: 6581
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

Re: Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:49 pm

lightsaber wrote:
The Mercure was competing with the 4,800km range 737-200. Yes, almost triple the range...


Obvious question: why would the 737-200 have more range than the Mercure with the same payload and the same (?) engines? Dumb designers at Dassault? Must have been pretty dumb, if the 737 had three times the range.

Next question: what was the Mercure's range with the same payload as the 737-200? What was the Mercure's maximum payload?
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 6488
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:04 pm

timz wrote:
Obvious question: why would the 737-200 have more range than the Mercure with the same payload and the same (?) engines? Dumb designers at Dassault? Must have been pretty dumb, if the 737 had three times the range.

Next question: what was the Mercure's range with the same payload as the 737-200? What was the Mercure's maximum payload?

It is all a function of designed mission.

The B737-200 could carrry up to 34,000 lbs of fuel. That could be as much as 6 hours flying time. The longest I flew the 737-200 was YYZ-YYJ ... about 5 1/2 hours. MTOW was ~128,000 lbs. The aircraft was in a 100 seat configuration J/Y, the most I ever saw was all Y at 127.

Even though a larger aircraft, the MTOW of the Mercure was ~124,000 lbs. So it was not just a function of what it could carry, but also what it could lift. Especially when carrying 162 passengers. I am sure the designers at Dassault wondered about carrying all that expensive capability if it were never used. If 99% of the flying was going to be a flight less than an hour, why build an aircraft that can fly 6?

Hindsight is great. In restrospect, Boeing had the right idea with the 737. But as I said above, in it's day it was far far more efficient on short flights than what was offered as competition .... like the Trident 3 or 727-200.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
User avatar
hOMSaR
Moderator
Posts: 2381
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:47 am

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:20 pm

This thread has a lot of lessons that folks could learn from today. Namely, that being the most efficient plane in a very narrow market segment doesn't necessarily mean the plane will sell.
I was raised by a cup of coffee.
 
FlyingHamster33
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:41 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:03 pm

I flew it several times between Nantes and Orly in the late 80s..even have the safety card somewhere! I remember it feeling very "nippy" on take off, a bit like the Caravelle.
 
hynithuchi
Posts: 338
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:28 am

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:16 pm

AF used it for a while on their NCE/GVA route in the 70s, but it was of course an Air Inter aircraft ( probably wetleased ).
 
TC957
Posts: 4059
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:27 pm

I recall that Sabena almost bought the Mercure, but decided on the 737-200 at the last minute instead, again range being the issue.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14272
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:02 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
This thread has a lot of lessons that folks could learn from today. Namely, that being the most efficient plane in a very narrow market segment doesn't necessarily mean the plane will sell.


Yes, for example the A345 is very efficient when flying between two points in France 16683Km apart (CDG-NOU) yet that's such a niche that nobody has tried that flight.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
richcam427
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:55 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:04 am

It can be reasonably said that the A320 has it's roots in the Mercure's design, especially considering the 200 was to be fitted with CFM56 engines.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2813
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:15 am

I flew it between Orly and Lyons in 1985. I booked the flight just to fly roundtrip on a Mercure. Stayed on the ground at Lyons just for the turn. The one thing I do remember was no overhead bins and just the one long luggage rack the entire length with pull down mesh doors. We did board from the rear door too.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14272
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:23 am

FlySSC wrote:
Some political reasons and "pressure" came out also : Europe wanted to set up the Airbus Consortium and nobody wanted a competition between european manufacturers.


Considering the awkward situation with the Rafale and Eurofighter, probably the right decision.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tp1040
Posts: 373
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:30 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:53 am

Did the flight engineer on the Mecure make a difference in some orders?
 
frequentpete
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:45 am

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:17 am

Flew the Mercure between Paris Orly and Bordeaux in 1993 or 1994, glad to have had an opportunity to fly this unique airplane. A bit noisy and a somewhat old-school passenger cabin, but otherwise a good flight, preferable to the larger Airbuses used on internal flights in France.
 
raylee67
Posts: 981
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:51 am

The issue is more on the size of the fuel tank. The story is that Dassault actually went to do an in-depth study of airlines' requirements. They went to talk to many potential customers, especially in Europe, to learn about what they need. And they learned that for the capacity, 90% of the routes the airlines fly are less than 1500km. Consider this, if you draw a 1500km radius circle from FRA, it would cover everything from Tallinn to Palermo to Madrid to Shannon. By doing the extensive homework before actually going to the design board, Dassault is actually doing it right. But their military jet design experience doomed it. They did not consider that airliners, especially those flying short routes, need to turn around quickly and thus do not refuel at every destination. Every lengthy ground stop for refuel strip away the profitability of the aircraft. It is a simple logic and it is not that Dassault does not understand this. It's just Dassault never thought about it at all. So it designed an aircraft that exactly fit the "need" of the airlines: a 130-seat aircraft that flies 1500km, except that it's not what the airlines need. I can imagine how the executives of Dassault react when they found the one simple mistake they made. They basically translated the business requirements from the clients directly into the design, without additional thinking and analysis of what the requirements mean given the business model of the airlines.

For those of you who manage projects (any projects), I am sure you have experienced moments like this, realizing something big was missed in the analysis only at the very end of the project. That's what the Mercure is.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI LX
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
Max Q
Posts: 8905
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:21 am

tp1040 wrote:
Did the flight engineer on the Mecure make a difference in some orders?



Don't think it had a Flight Engineer.


It did have a very nice cockpit in my opinion and quite advanced for its day, including I believe a HUD.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
oldannyboy
Topic Author
Posts: 2623
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:30 am

Thanks everyone for the amazing response! I am VERY grateful to all of you! :-)
Regards,
danny
 
QueenoftheSkies
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:48 am

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:53 am

Fabulous aircraft name though.....
 
WIederling
Posts: 10022
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:18 pm

737-200 and Mercure have similar MTOW ( and thus similar thrust engines as available at the time) and similar OEW.

737-200 has 100 seats
Mercure has 150 seats
737 needs the structure to carry fuel
Mercure needs the structure to carry pax.
Same capabilities swap you see for A300 and 767.
Murphy is an optimist
 
xdlx
Posts: 975
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:29 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:25 pm

Who manufacture the engines? Avionics? Probably very French concentric and with limited civilian support worldwide?
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 11705
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:46 pm

xdlx wrote:
Who manufacture the engines? Avionics? Probably very French concentric and with limited civilian support worldwide?

PW made the engines. JT8Ds like on the 737-200

WIederling wrote:
Same capabilities swap you see for A300 and 767.

Not really. The A300 and 767 were similar sizes with similar OEWs but the 763ER had about a 15t greater MTOW and ~23,000L greater fuel capacity over the -600R.
 
tp1040
Posts: 373
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:30 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:08 pm

Max Q wrote:
tp1040 wrote:
Did the flight engineer on the Mecure make a difference in some orders?



Don't think it had a Flight Engineer.


It did have a very nice cockpit in my opinion and quite advanced for its day, including I believe a HUD.


Everything I have read about the Mecure said it required the flight engineer. IIRC, a big selling point of the 737 over the 727 was the move from 3 to 2 on the flight deck.

Just speculating that at the time that the Mecure, could have been hurt by that requirement.
 
LCKip
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:39 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:22 pm

Max Q wrote:
tp1040 wrote:
Did the flight engineer on the Mecure make a difference in some orders?

It did have a very nice cockpit in my opinion and quite advanced for its day, including I believe a HUD.

There is a photo on this site which states there is a HUD. Look at F-BTTD. There is a round screen but I'm not sure it's a HUD. Seems to be a scope to me.
 
oldannyboy
Topic Author
Posts: 2623
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:37 pm

.
The one thing I do remember was no overhead bins and just the one long luggage rack the entire length with pull down mesh doors.


I think you might be confusing it with the Air Inter Caravelles: those indeed had the mesh doors and no rack covering doors. The Mercure had enclosed luggage compartments from day one.
 
WIederling
Posts: 10022
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:28 pm

Polot wrote:
xdlx wrote:
Who manufacture the engines? Avionics? Probably very French concentric and with limited civilian support worldwide?

PW made the engines. JT8Ds like on the 737-200

WIederling wrote:
Same capabilities swap you see for A300 and 767.

Not really. The A300 and 767 were similar sizes with similar OEWs but the 763ER had about a 15t greater MTOW and ~23,000L greater fuel capacity over the -600R.


A300 vs Boeing's answer the 767-200

A310 then matched the 767-200 on range but with the superior 222" cross section.
763ER is a compatriot to the A330 but smaller.
764ER tried to match the A330-200 but got limited interest.
Murphy is an optimist
 
Aircellist
Posts: 1676
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:43 am

Re: The Dassault Mercure

Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:14 pm

Mercure was fun, as a passenger. I actually quite enjoyed feeling the accelerations and slowing downs, a little bit like in a car; the Caravelle was also a little bit like that.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos