LHRFlyer
Topic Author
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Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:50 pm

BA returns to BHX & BRS for the summer

Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:59 am

BA CityFlyer's weekend leisure flights are to be extended from STN and MAN to both BHX and BRS with summer routes to Ibiza, Malaga, Palma and Florence:

http://mediacentre.britishairways.com/p ... 4?ref=Home
 
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TheLion
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Re: BA returns to BHX & BRS for the summer

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:59 am

This is pretty good news. Let's hope this is a success and encourages them to do more and set up small bases in future.
 
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TheLion
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Re: BA returns to BHX & BRS for the summer

Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:12 pm

Some more info. As covered in the Business Traveller article below, BA are finally back in the nation's second city, 10 years after acrimoniously departing and just a few weeks after they resumed limited non-London services to Manchester.

http://www.businesstraveller.com/busine ... am-bristol

Flights will be...you guessed it...operated by BA CityFlyer. The routes are summer only and include Malaga, Ibiza, Palma and Florence. They'll also be serving Bristol too with similar route profiles. (Copied) schedules below:

Bristol:

Bristol to Florence – departs 1310, arrives 1625
Florence to Bristol – departs 1105, arrives 1225
Bristol to Ibiza – departs 1525, arrives 1850
Ibiza to Bristol – departs 1310, arrives 1440
Bristol to Malaga – departs 1600, arrives 1940
Malaga to Bristol – departs 1330, arrives 1515
Bristol to Palma – departs 1630, arrives 1955
Palma to Bristol – departs 1415, arrives 1545

Birmingham:

Birmingham to Florence – departs 1930, arrives 2240
Florence to Birmingham – departs 1710, arrives 1835
Birmingham to Ibiza – departs 2210, arrives 0145 the following day
Ibiza to Birmingham – departs 1950, arrives 2125
Birmingham to Malaga – departs 2305, arrives 0255 the following day
Malaga to Birmingham – departs 0825, arrives 2220
Birmingham to Palma – departs 2300, arrives 0230 the following day
Palma to Birmingham – departs 2040, arrives 2215

Look forward to hearing your thoughts/views/opinions/sentiments/rants/jokes :)
 
User001
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Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: BA returns to BHX & BRS for the summer

Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:41 pm

Malaga to Birmingham departing 0825 but arriving 2220? Is it going via New York or something?
 
richardw
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

Re: BA returns to BHX & BRS for the summer

Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:46 pm

User001 wrote:
Malaga to Birmingham departing 0825 but arriving 2220? Is it going via New York or something?


No it leaves AGP at 8.25pm or 20.25hrs.
 
UAL777UK
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Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

Re: BA returns to BHX & BRS for the summer

Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:50 pm

This is good news, BA is getting back out to the regions.

Surprised we did not see Faro on any of those destinations though.
 
User001
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Re: BA returns to BHX & BRS for the summer

Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:56 pm

richardw wrote:
User001 wrote:
Malaga to Birmingham departing 0825 but arriving 2220? Is it going via New York or something?


No it leaves AGP at 8.25pm or 20.25hrs.



It was just in jest, due to the fact they used the 24h clock for all flights bar that one.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: BA returns to BHX & BRS for the summer

Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:23 pm

Hard to get excited over weekly "leisure scheduled charters", as I call them, operated purely to get some use out of otherwise idle LCY-based E-jets. This is NOT BA returning to the Regions folks....
 
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downtown273
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Re: BA returns to BHX & BRS for the summer

Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:36 pm

Agreed it's good news - but I don't really understand why are doing this:
- Most of these routes are 99% leisure traffic.
- They will be competing with 4-5 low cost airlines on those routes.
- Schedule is beyond poor: Those IBZ, PMI and AGP arrivals at 2am will be horrible. I know some low cost airlines have been doing that specially in IBZ for a few years now - But is that what BA customers are supposed to expect too?
- Some routes are already served by IAG (Operated by Vueling with BA code-sharing)
- BA don't offer anything extra that the other airlines don't (i.e. you have to pay for food on BA too)

Is it really worth it to enter those routes with BA City Flyer? BA could fill A380's on some of those routes.
Or is there really nowhere else where these Embraers could be flown to?
 
User001
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Re: BA returns to BHX & BRS for the summer

Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:43 pm

Scheduled charters? How are they charters, when no company has chartered out the aircraft? For the, to be a charter means someone has block booked the seats already.

Now, let's look into this shall we, as people are saying 'this is not a return to the regions'.

First and foremost in its most basic form, it is. These are flights, operating from a non-London airport, to a non-London airport. Ergo, it is a return to the UK regions, regardless of how brief.

Yes, these flights are using aircraft that may otherwise be redundant while LCY closes, but let's look at this subjectively shall we?

LCY closing of a weekend is nothing new, it's been happening for years, and BA have found ways to make this work, whether the aircraft sit on the ground or get chartered out by various companies.

Last year, they decided on a change, and that was to utilise the aircraft better. Stansted was first off the mark, it worked well, so then Manchester got the 'based' treatment. Now Birmigham and Bristol have joined in with flights on Saturdays.

The simple fact is, these aircraft could have gone anywhere, IAG has interests across Europe now, so, there would have been competition from many airports to get these flights.

But, they chose the UK. Not Barcelona, Dublin or Madrid where they could have just continued in the IAG hub fold, but instead, the U.K. Regions.

Whether you want to be cynical or not as to what these flights represent, to me, they do represent a return to the regions, as for me, a return to the regions is not quantified by how many flights they will operate, but, the intent behind them, and that is BA have seen there is money to be ,ace in the regions, so, have come back. They are not doing this out of sympathy, or charity, they are doing it because they have deemed the markets can offer a return of yield.

Also, I would rather they 'toe-dipped' back into the regions, as the 'cannonball' style from The likes of Ryanair with multiple aircraft may generate the headlines, but often has its issues:

-routes still tend to be low frequency, like 2-3 weekly, it's just the 'crowd effect' that makes it seem a lot more. Yes, you may start 23 routes in one go, but they are all low frequency, no different to this BA model.

-routes get canned a lot easier. Look at the route structure when Ryanair opens a base, then look at the routes today, often very very different. Anna.aero even did an article on it recently, where some airports only had 20% of the routes that the base started with!

So, yes, this is a return to the regions, and I welcome it!
 
by738
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Re: BA returns to BHX & BRS for the summer

Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:04 pm

The thing that is different is the larger Emb fleet now and so this will mean its harder to keep them all on the ground at the weekend. I dont see it as any more than that. Tight weird schedules will take some working. Presume the GLA schedules are too lucrative as a guaranteed charter model than convert to a similar scheduled program
 
LHRFlyer
Topic Author
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Re: BA returns to BHX & BRS for the summer

Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:29 pm

The STN experiment clearly worked last summer and BA has a lot of data on where it's Avios collectors are based. The frequencies are low enough to capture BA Holidays traffic, as well as BA loyalists, Avios collectors and those who'll pay for Club Europe.
 
AndyEastMids
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Re: BA returns to BHX & BRS for the summer

Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:42 pm

Nothing really significant to see here - just BA looking to use aircraft that would otherwise sit at LCY Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning. As long as the airline can cover the cost of any positioning flights and the DOCs for the routes, its better than having the aircraft at LCY accumulating parking charges. Anyone who thinks this is BA suddenly showing a renewed commitment to the regions should ask themselves - would BA would be at BHX, BRS, MAN or STN if London City didn't close overnight and for part of the weekend? I'm pretty confident the answer to that question is - no.
 
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Channex757
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Re: BA returns to BHX & BRS for the summer

Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:56 pm

The Embraer fleet was bought/leased and costed out when usage would only be at LCY during the weekdays and a few weekend flights. Otherwise they would sit idle and maintenance would get done then. It makes sense to work in some additional usage from the fleet out of regional airports as LCY holiday flying has apparently not shown any kind of profitability when it's been attempted.

There is also the weekend curfew at LCY.
 
vv701
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Re: BA returns to BHX & BRS for the summer

Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:00 pm

downtown273 wrote:
BA don't offer anything extra that the other airlines don't


The Press Release says these flights will be operated by BA CityFlyer E190s.

BACF's E190s are configured with 98 seats, They have 24 rows (2 to 25) configured 2 - 2 while Row 1 is configured 2 - 0.. So every passenger gets an aisle or a window seat.

BACF's E190s have 98 34" pitch seats that are 18.3" wide.

Does any other airline fly these routes with equal or better seat access AND equal or more seat pitch and width?
 
seansasLCY
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Re: BA returns to BHX & BRS for the summer

Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:30 pm

Channex757 wrote:
The Embraer fleet was bought/leased and costed out when usage would only be at LCY during the weekdays and a few weekend flights. Otherwise they would sit idle and maintenance would get done then. It makes sense to work in some additional usage from the fleet out of regional airports as LCY holiday flying has apparently not shown any kind of profitability when it's been attempted.

There is also the weekend curfew at LCY.


Sorry but how do you know that LCY holiday flights haven't shown any profitability. If anything I would suggest the opposite, BA have dropped business destinations and now serve more holiday flights. Florence, Granada, Ibiza, Malaga, Nice, Palma, Faro, Menorca, Mykonos, Santorini, Skiathos and Venice are all leisure orientated destinations and flown from LCY by BA. BA are known for not sticking at loss making routes. They have dropped MAD from LCY so I don't think they would stick with those routes if they were poor performers.

BA fly to IBZ up to three times a day from LCY (on a Friday). Mykonos is being increased to 5x weekly and Santorini is flown 3 times a week. If anything they seem to have more luck with these holiday routes where one of the few to fail was Alicante which won't return this year compared to many of the more business focused routes like ARN, CPH, LIN, MAD and HAM which have all been dropped. The holiday route portfolio has also grown each year.
 
LHRFlyer
Topic Author
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Re: BA returns to BHX & BRS for the summer

Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:33 pm

I don't think anyone is under any illusion that these routes wouldn't be happening if LCY wasn't closed at weekends.

However, there's clearly an interest from regional airports in attracting BA (note the comments from Birmingham airport in the press release about the hope of extending this) and the expansion of the Stansted operation this summer has shown that it has been a success.

It's also worth adding that there have been a number of LCY route suspensions in recent weeks such as MAD, ALC and HAM, so a long-term rebalancing of BACF capacity does not seem far fetched.
 
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Channex757
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Re: BA returns to BHX & BRS for the summer

Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:39 pm

Fair enough, I stand corrected on that. Must have been the ALC I read about and assumed that applied more widely.

I can see the more monied types who would use LCY from their Docklands residences not exactly being the type to want a weekend in Benidorm!!
 
richardw
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

Re: BA returns to BHX & BRS for the summer

Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:59 pm

Channex757 wrote:
....I can see the more monied types who would use LCY from their Docklands residences not exactly being the type to want a weekend in Benidorm!!


Plenty who'll say they're going to Altea, but pop to Benidorm on the tram for a night out.

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