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LAXintl
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UK - India liberalize air services

Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:00 pm

The UK and India today agreed to ease restrictions on the number of scheduled flights between the two countries.

Details are still coming out, but looks like restrictions of frequencies to/from secondary cities like Chennai and Kolkata have been scrapped entirely, while overall number of flights allowed between nations has been largely loosened. Currently there are 88 weekly services between the nations.

I saw in a news story that UK officials encouraging Indian carriers to look beyond LHR, and consider services to other UK airports such as BHX, MAN.

UK government press release:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/deal ... wo-nations

=
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oldannyboy
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:07 pm

Was about time... Glad to read this. Hoping for more Regions-to-India routes.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:46 pm

The UK did this with China last year, let's hope good things come of it.
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anshabhi
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:21 pm

I call this Karma. 100 years ago it was Jallianwala Wala Bagh masscare. Today their descendents are hoping for a trade deal.
 
Armaghman
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:36 pm

Better late than never - finally waking up to the ME3
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:23 pm

CCU hasn't seen a direct service to LHR since AI pulled out in the mid-2000s. BA, much earlier than that.
Vahroone
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:32 pm

This opens possibilities. Norwegian opening up a new India route from Gatwick with India-based crew? Very possible. They got a crew base in Thailand already, why not open a second one in India?
 
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Wingtip1005
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:53 pm

AI already have a daily service to BHX, with another leg to YYZ to start this year. It would be great to see 9W with a BOM route, there is certainly the market for it.
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atal17
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:50 pm

Time is ripe for Air India to consider Delhi-Manchester with a 787-8 Dream)Liner
 
Kilopond
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:31 pm

If I were an LCC like Easyjet or IndiGo I would hurry up to catch some of the new frequencies to operate between the UK and India with an intermediate stop at a GCC airport like Dubai. With full traffic rights on any legs, that is.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:41 pm

An Indian media site calls it "open sky pact".

I'd caution accepting this as the UK government press release did not call it such.

India, UK sign open sky pact
http://www.newindianexpress.com/busines ... 68884.html

Another website says - limits on flights (with exception of LHR) to 6 Indian cities no longer will have frequency limits, while other routes will retain 7-weekly flight limit. Additionally codesharing has been liberalized allowing for increased domestic codeshares within India.

http://www.asianimage.co.uk/news/150819 ... _scrapped/
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vv701
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:43 am

Spiderguy252 wrote:
CCU hasn't seen a direct service to LHR since AI pulled out in the mid-2000s. BA, much earlier than that.


I flew LHR-CCU on 772 G-YMME (BA147) on 4 November 2008 and CCU-LHR on 772 G-YMMD (BA145) on 18 November. My best recollection is that BA suspended this service on 29 March 2009 but it could have been on 25 October of that year.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:50 am

Armaghman wrote:
Better late than never - finally waking up to the ME3

Agreed. This isn't enough either.

But a nice start.

Lightsaber
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BawliBooch
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:09 am

LAXintl wrote:
The UK and India today agreed to ease restrictions on the number of scheduled flights between the two countries.

Details are still coming out, but looks like restrictions of frequencies to/from secondary cities like Chennai and Kolkata have been scrapped entirely, while overall number of flights allowed between nations has been largely loosened. Currently there are 88 weekly services between the nations.

I saw in a news story that UK officials encouraging Indian carriers to look beyond LHR, and consider services to other UK airports such as BHX, MAN.

UK government press release:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/deal ... wo-nations

=


Air India is already flying to BHK/MAN apart from LHR.

But will Bleddy Awful look beyond LHR?
Mr.Kapoor's favorite poodle!
 
behramjee
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:46 am

Can someone please explain what is exactly allowed city wise as per this new accord of 88 weekly flights ?

Does it mean UK carriers can fly to any cities in India up to 88 flights per week combined or are their still limits on certain points ?
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:47 am

Kilopond wrote:
If I were an LCC like Easyjet or IndiGo I would hurry up to catch some of the new frequencies to operate between the UK and India with an intermediate stop at a GCC airport like Dubai. With full traffic rights on any legs, that is.


I would hate to be on a 180Y 6E aircraft all the way from MAA to LHR say, and a stop or two in between.
Vahroone
 
atal17
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:47 am

BawliBooch wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
The UK and India today agreed to ease restrictions on the number of scheduled flights between the two countries.

Details are still coming out, but looks like restrictions of frequencies to/from secondary cities like Chennai and Kolkata have been scrapped entirely, while overall number of flights allowed between nations has been largely loosened. Currently there are 88 weekly services between the nations.

I saw in a news story that UK officials encouraging Indian carriers to look beyond LHR, and consider services to other UK airports such as BHX, MAN.

UK government press release:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/deal ... wo-nations

=


Air India is already flying to BHK/MAN apart from LHR.

But will Bleddy Awful look beyond LHR?


When is AI flying to Manchester...?!
 
upwardfacing
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:11 am

For AI, it seems that other European routes are taking priority over MAN. Recent launches include VIE and MAD; CPH is upcoming. There are also planned frequency increases to some destinations.

IIRC in Western Europe BRU followed by BCN are larger unserved O&D markets from DEL than is MAN. Although size is clearly not the only consideration here, given that CPH is yet smaller than all of the above plus VCE.

The liberalised ASA comes at a rather unusual time given tightening of visa issuance to Indian nationals by the UK authorities, Brexit and its fallout effects (certain Indian companies may find that a UK presence is insufficient for European operations), and a drastic reduction in Indians studying in the UK. (For example, if current trends continue, the number of Indian students in Germany will soon be greater than in that in the UK. The former is rapidly increasing while the latter is contracting.) In fact the India-UK air travel market is relatively flat over the last decade while smaller ones like India-Spain are growing rapidly.
 
User001
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:52 am

IIRC in Western Europe BRU followed by BCN are larger unserved O&D markets from DEL than is MAN


I've not seen the 2016 figures but as of the 2015 figures MAN-DEL had a higher passenger flow than BRU and BCN. Even DEL themselves stated MAN was one of the largest unserved markets in Europe.

I'm lead to believe the MAN-BOM market is larger though, so ideally needs that route rather than DEL.
 
Cunard
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:41 pm

BawliBooch wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
The UK and India today agreed to ease restrictions on the number of scheduled flights between the two countries.

Details are still coming out, but looks like restrictions of frequencies to/from secondary cities like Chennai and Kolkata have been scrapped entirely, while overall number of flights allowed between nations has been largely loosened. Currently there are 88 weekly services between the nations.

I saw in a news story that UK officials encouraging Indian carriers to look beyond LHR, and consider services to other UK airports such as BHX, MAN.

UK government press release:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/deal ... wo-nations

=


Air India is already flying to BHK/MAN apart from LHR.

But will Bleddy Awful look beyond LHR?



Not sure what 'Bleddy Awful' means especially in the text but I can assure you that Air India are not already flying from MAN, BHX yes and of course LHR.

Air India briefly operated from Manchester in the 1990's with Airbus A310.

I am very surprised that 9W have not started flying from India to Manchester with Air India already flying from Birmingham.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:51 pm

Cunard wrote:

Not sure what 'Bleddy Awful' means especially in the text but I can assure you that Air India are not already flying from MAN, BHX yes and of course LHR.

Air India briefly operated from Manchester in the 1990's with Airbus A310.

I am very surprised that 9W have not started flying from India to Manchester with Air India already flying from Birmingham.


"Bleddy Awful" = BA.

AI has been off again-on again with MAN. I think the last time was when they first started operating the 777 - leased birds from UA.

I think DEL-MAN is definitely happening with 787's as they build up their European bank. For some reason, after Brexit Continental Europe is taking a higher priority.

9W? Forget it. Perhaps from BOM at a later date. 9W management is pretty much the pm-AI team and has much of that same attitude - cant think beyond LHR or JFK. They are now trying to do ex-BOM what AI did in DEL and build a proper international hub. Maybe they will have a change of heart and launch BOM-MAN with one of the A332's hatching eggs on the apron. But doubt it.
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Cunard
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:10 pm

"Bleddy Awful" = BA.

YOU = PATHETIC
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BawliBooch
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:12 pm

Cunard wrote:
"Bleddy Awful" = BA.

YOU = PATHETIC


Oh! I cant claim credit for that wonderful turn of phrase. I was told by my Scottish friends that this is what they think BA stands for. Think it was Sir Branson who coined the phase?

Apt no? :lol:
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Channex757
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:18 pm

MAN-BOM would fit right in with TCX. They already operate into Goa so have experience of flying to India.
 
Cunard
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:16 pm

BawliBooch wrote:
Cunard wrote:
"Bleddy Awful" = BA.

YOU = PATHETIC


Oh! I cant claim credit for that wonderful turn of phrase. I was told by my Scottish friends that this is what they think BA stands for. Think it was Sir Branson who coined the phase?

Apt no? :lol:


No it's not Apt actually and why would you assume it was!

Are you a frequent flier with BA or are you just jumping on the bandwagon by association in discrediting the airline with quotes such as that and I'm really sure Sir Richard Branson coined that phrase more like your 'Scottish Friends' did.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
Cunard
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:24 pm

Channex757 wrote:
MAN-BOM would fit right in with TCX. They already operate into Goa so have experience of flying to India.


Goa and Mumbai are two totally different markets, it's like flying to New York or Ibiza, just because TCX have experience flying charters to a leisure orientated destination in India such as Goa it doesn't mean it 'would fit right in', TCX would never enter the Indian scheduled market it just wouldn't work for them for so many reasons.

TCX fly to Cape Town in South Africa but you can't compare that to BOM.
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Channex757
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:01 pm

Cunard wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
MAN-BOM would fit right in with TCX. They already operate into Goa so have experience of flying to India.


Goa and Mumbai are two totally different markets, it's like flying to New York or Ibiza, just because TCX have experience flying charters to a leisure orientated destination in India such as Goa it doesn't mean it 'would fit right in', TCX would never enter the Indian scheduled market it just wouldn't work for them for so many reasons.

TCX fly to Cape Town in South Africa but you can't compare that to BOM.

Rubbish.

TCX have experience of what it is like flying into India; their pilots are familiar with Indian ATC procedures and the airline as a whole operates with Indian companies to support the flights. Everyone from handling agents through fuel companies and hotel chains providing crew rest.

The airline itself is being repositioned to be more like its German cousin Condor. Are you suggesting Condor would be incapable of operating a route to India?

Your comments are sneering and BOAC-like towards the TCX Longhaul operation. They have started well and BOM would be a potential goldmine route to a carrier that can keep costs and fares down. Not everyone wants gold leaf on their meal plates and champagne. The TCX cabins fit well with long flight times and India is ideal for them.
 
Andy33
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:27 pm

Channex757 wrote:
TCX have experience of what it is like flying into India; their pilots are familiar with Indian ATC procedures and the airline as a whole operates with Indian companies to support the flights. Everyone from handling agents through fuel companies and hotel chains providing crew rest.

The airline itself is being repositioned to be more like its German cousin Condor. Are you suggesting Condor would be incapable of operating a route to India?

Your comments are sneering and BOAC-like towards the TCX Longhaul operation. They have started well and BOM would be a potential goldmine route to a carrier that can keep costs and fares down. Not everyone wants gold leaf on their meal plates and champagne. The TCX cabins fit well with long flight times and India is ideal for them.


There's no doubt that TCX has the capability to operate flights to mainland India. The point is that neither TCX nor Condor are free-standing airlines. They exist to supply air services to the package holiday businesses run by the Thomas Cook Group. The group makes more money out of supplying a package including flights than it does out of selling plane seats on their own, so assets such as planes are deployed on routes where there's a good base load of package passengers. Then topping up with flight-only passengers makes the whole route successful.
The package passengers don't have to take the traditional 2 weeks in the sun on a beach, like Goa. Condor has done very well out of the air component of long haul city breaks and flight+tour or flight+cruise, and TCX is now doing the same. This is why they offer such a range of big-city destinations. If the Thomas Cook Group can develop package business based on flights to BOM I'm sure we'll see TCX and DE flying there, it is mainly a question of how long it takes to put the deals together. I agree with you that they could make money just operating flights there, but that isn't the business model the Group follows.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:34 pm

Cunard wrote:

No it's not Apt actually and why would you assume it was!

Are you a frequent flier with BA or are you just jumping on the bandwagon by association in discrediting the airline with quotes such as that and I'm really sure Sir Richard Branson coined that phrase more like your 'Scottish Friends' did.


No I am not a frequent flyer with BA. Only Freq Flyers are allowed to comment on the airline is it?

BA used to be an annual ride back home when I was studying. Last flew them in 2012 (in Business) and it was awful! Will be flying in to MAN in March - plan to do a bicycle ride to Scotland & back. Flying EK - anything to avoid Bleddy Awful!

TCX caters to a different market. I can totally see them working on a route like MAN-ATQ : an untapped market. Does Virgin have a base at MAN? Perhaps they could?
Mr.Kapoor's favorite poodle!
 
Kilopond
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Re: UK - India liberalize air services

Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:35 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
[...]I would hate to be on a 180Y 6E aircraft all the way from MAA to LHR say, and a stop or two in between.


So would most others do as well. But airlines like Easyjet could sell tickets from the UK to the Arabian Penninsula seperately from those that start at the intermediate point and finish in India. Just like SQ is flying their SIN-FRA leg with a completely different set of passengers compared to the FRA-JFK leg.

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