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AirbusMDCFAN
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Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:29 pm

Link/Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -300-spare

Another meat cleaver thrown in the Delta vs Emirates / ME3 battle:

"Mechanical fault stalled Seattle-Dubai service for six hours"

"Gulf carrier says U.S. rival located part but wouldn’t sell it"

" A Boeing Co. 777 due to depart the American city at 9 a.m. on Feb. 2 was held up by a mechanical issue requiring the replacement of a minor hydraulic component, Emirates says. While the part was sourced from Delta’s local engineering office and installed on the plane, a senior manager at the U.S. carrier’s Atlanta base later ordered that it be removed, it claims."

Last time a Delta B777 sat at a gate blocking the QR inaugural DOH-ATL flight which was operated with an A380 (1 time deal only)
 
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SFOA380
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:31 pm

Sounds pretty par for the course for Delta...
 
ltbewr
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:35 pm

That is just stupid, if true. Someday DL may need a part that an ME3 airline may have and get hurt over.
 
airtran737
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:45 pm

ltbewr wrote:
That is just stupid, if true. Someday DL may need a part that an ME3 airline may have and get hurt over.


What if it was the last one that DL had in their stores department in SEA? I wouldn't sell my last part to my competitor when I had a flight that may have needed it.
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PerfectGriffin
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:46 pm

Wow, that's very immature. Delta is starting to lose my respect with their childish behaviour.
 
conflats
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:52 pm

Why would EK not just give Boeing a call when they were in Seattle? Seems fishy this story
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:54 pm

I have two questions:

1). Since this happened in SEA with Boeing's HQ just down the road - why didn't they just get it directly from Boeing?

2). IF this is true about DL - it's completely immature. Please correct me if I'm wrong - but as far as I'm aware DL has no 777 flights ex-SEA currently, so even if it was their last part they have no immediate need for it and could easily sell it to EK for a profit and just order another one.
 
ericm2031
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:58 pm

conflats wrote:
Why would EK not just give Boeing a call when they were in Seattle? Seems fishy this story


Exactly what I was thinking.
 
ba319-131
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:58 pm

Well that explains why I saw 2 EK 777's depart SEA that day, thought it was a bit odd.
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Prost
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:02 pm

EK got the part from partner Alaska Airlines, so it wasn't a 777 specific part. Delta asserts it was their last of this part in Seattle and their policy is to never give out the last one, but to keep it for their own operation. If you choose to operate your business differently that's fine, otherwise, it's just ganging up on Delta again.
 
FGITD
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:02 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
I have two questions:

1). Since this happened in SEA with Boeing's HQ just down the road - why didn't they just get it directly from Boeing?

2). IF this is true about DL - it's completely immature. Please correct me if I'm wrong - but as far as I'm aware DL has no 777 flights ex-SEA currently, so even if it was their last part they have no immediate need for it and could easily sell it to EK for a profit and just order another one.



Boeing might not have one immediately available. I'm sure they could source I've pretty quickly, but it's not as simple as just driving down to the shop to pick one up.

Also, think on the larger scale. Maybe no flights for Delta 777s in that immediate area, but parts do travel. If that's the last one, you don't want to give it away just in case anything should happen
 
bennett123
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:04 pm

If true, then what goes around tends sooner or later to come around.

Hope DL do not need a favour any time soon.
 
ericm2031
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:11 pm

DL probably keeps some spares there for any diversions that land there or anywhere else on the west coast. Also, KE flies their 777 there and DL probably does the maintenance for them if they were to need it.
 
mcdu
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:12 pm

I don't fault DL for not loaning the part. Perhaps EK should have better contingency plans for the maintenance of their aircraft.
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:12 pm

Is there a hydraulic part shared by 737 & 777?
 
jakubz
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:17 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
I have two questions:

1). Since this happened in SEA with Boeing's HQ just down the road - why didn't they just get it directly from Boeing?


Umm... Boeings HQ is in Chicago, not Seattle. Unless you were refering to Renton or Everett.
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keesje
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:19 pm

FGITD wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
I have two questions:

1). Since this happened in SEA with Boeing's HQ just down the road - why didn't they just get it directly from Boeing?

2). IF this is true about DL - it's completely immature. Please correct me if I'm wrong - but as far as I'm aware DL has no 777 flights ex-SEA currently, so even if it was their last part they have no immediate need for it and could easily sell it to EK for a profit and just order another one.



Boeing might not have one immediately available. I'm sure they could source I've pretty quickly, but it's not as simple as just driving down to the shop to pick one up.

Also, think on the larger scale. Maybe no flights for Delta 777s in that immediate area, but parts do travel. If that's the last one, you don't want to give it away just in case anything should happen


- something happened. AOG, 300 people waiting while you order to uninstall a part. Probably a fatneck mngr that never expected this to become public, now biting his lip while trying to hide behind a procedure.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
flyingcat
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:25 pm

Policy is one thing, but when the part is already installed it's too late to take back your mistake.

Looks like the big D stands for something else these days, of course the Fox Theater found that out already.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:27 pm

PerfectGriffin wrote:
Wow, that's very immature. Delta is starting to lose my respect with their childish behaviour.


Just because one random manager removed the order doesn't mean we should blame the entire company. We don't know why the manager acted this way: is it company policy to bully the ME3, did the manager had a bad day or does the manager have personal issues with the ME3?
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jetwet1
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:32 pm

keesje wrote:
- something happened. AOG, 300 people waiting while you order to uninstall a part. Probably a fatneck mngr that never expected this to become public, now biting his lip while trying to hide behind a procedure.


Not really, if it was as DL claims the last one in stock, then the manager is covered, if however he sold it to EK and as Muphy's Law says, a DL plane went tech because of that part, then yes, he would be biting his lip.
 
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ER757
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:34 pm

jakubz wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
I have two questions:

1). Since this happened in SEA with Boeing's HQ just down the road - why didn't they just get it directly from Boeing?


Umm... Boeings HQ is in Chicago, not Seattle. Unless you were refering to Renton or Everett.

Probably meant Boeing Spares which is at the north end of KSEA. You'd think they'd have the part in stock but I'm sure EK asked them first before trying to source it elsewhere.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:40 pm

Delta being petty? Never
 
coolian2
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:44 pm

This sounds exactly like Delta being petty. Sucks they can't work out how to be classy and professional.
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catiii
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:45 pm

What's the big deal? It's DL's part to do with as they wish. Emirates can learn something from DL here. After all, they rarely of ever cancel flights for maintenance and have strived to have a downline maintenance program to support that. Remember, they spent $2 million supplying 767 engine starters to every station that supports the plane, and developed a vibration monitor to replace instrument cooling fans before they break.
 
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:46 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
PerfectGriffin wrote:
Wow, that's very immature. Delta is starting to lose my respect with their childish behaviour.


Just because one random manager removed the order doesn't mean we should blame the entire company. We don't know why the manager acted this way: is it company policy to bully the ME3, did the manager had a bad day or does the manager have personal issues with the ME3?

The evidence is stacking up that it's practically (unwritten) company policy. I like Delta more than Emirates, but it's beyond childish now.
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Aesma
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:51 pm

Keeping the last part would be fine, nobody has a problem with that.

Giving then taking back, that's another story.
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ikramerica
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:54 pm

It's very possible it was the last one on hand and a part that DL requires SEA to have on hand for their own aircraft. Just because a manager decided to offer it doesn't mean he was allowed to.

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KiloRomeoDelta
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:55 pm

AirbusMDCFAN wrote:
Last time a Delta B777 sat at a gate blocking the QR inaugural DOH-ATL flight which was operated with an A380 (1 time deal only)


Not even a 777, it was an A320 which could have used any of the 100 other gates at ATL that Delta decided to park at the only gate that can take an A380. Not petty at all la la la...
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:07 pm

KiloRomeoDelta wrote:
AirbusMDCFAN wrote:
Last time a Delta B777 sat at a gate blocking the QR inaugural DOH-ATL flight which was operated with an A380 (1 time deal only)


Not even a 777, it was an A320 which could have used any of the 100 other gates at ATL that Delta decided to park at the only gate that can take an A380. Not petty at all la la la...


Since when does Delta handle gate assignments on E at ATL?
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RL777
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:15 pm

I don't generally side with any of the American 3 in this ongoing battle (actually I never do), but this doesn't add up. With Boeing not too far away (lets say the parts are in Everett) it shouldn't have taken sourcing the part from DL to get the flight off and away.
 
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keesje
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:35 pm

Probably a standard part, it probably wasn't the last one & Delta probably will handle this differently next time, although they'll never admit.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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klm617
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:43 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
PerfectGriffin wrote:
Wow, that's very immature. Delta is starting to lose my respect with their childish behaviour.


Just because one random manager removed the order doesn't mean we should blame the entire company. We don't know why the manager acted this way: is it company policy to bully the ME3, did the manager had a bad day or does the manager have personal issues with the ME3?


Delta policy is very clear when dealing with the ME3 so he was probably looking for a pat on the back for doing a good job screwing EK. It was already installed so as others have said this was a directed at EK to upset their customers and operations. This is nothing new with DL when people don't comply to their way of thinking. Wonder what that managers bonus is going tro be for a job well done screwing EK
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klm617
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:45 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
KiloRomeoDelta wrote:
AirbusMDCFAN wrote:
Last time a Delta B777 sat at a gate blocking the QR inaugural DOH-ATL flight which was operated with an A380 (1 time deal only)


Not even a 777, it was an A320 which could have used any of the 100 other gates at ATL that Delta decided to park at the only gate that can take an A380. Not petty at all la la la...


Since when does Delta handle gate assignments on E at ATL?


Since the beginning of time. It's an gentleman's agreement between DL and all it's hub airports take care of us or we will retaliate in a not so nice way.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:57 pm

They could have borrowed from one of their builds at Everette.
All posts are just opinions.
 
Passedv1
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:01 pm

And this was Delta's responsibility to bail them out? Why?
 
ryan78
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:02 pm

We've gone through this a few times at my airline. We have had the part available but it was our last one across all of our stations and we refused to sell it to the competing airline in case we went AOG for the same thing. Crazier things have happened. A lot of the time if we have extra stock we will sell it or loan it to the airline in question, obviously with the price hiked up a bit more then usual.

Once we had a part on loan from another airline and someone forgot it was still on loan after a few months and we ended up paying twice what the part was actually worth in loan fees, eventually we just bought the part outright instead of returning it. Business as usual here.
 
JetPilotMike
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:09 pm

Bravo Delta! The ME3 are screwing the US3 over at every opportunity with their government subsidized flights from the US to all over the world. Very few people want to go to Doha or Dubai, yet they operate hundreds of the largest jets in the world. Since they have priced the US3 out of flying to the Middle East, there is very little chance Delta will need a part at their hub. Maybe Delta offered the part at a price they wouldn't agree to, so uninstalled it was!
 
n272wa
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:11 pm

Another reason I detest Delta.... nasty airline.
 
toobz
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:13 pm

I have to laugh...same DL haters coming out again. It's DL's part and they can do whatever they want with it. Simple as that.
 
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11725Flyer
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:13 pm

Correct move by Delta. They're under no obligation to help out a competitor. No matter how you feel, Emirates should be prepared for any maintenance issue that may arise.
 
qcpilotxf
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:33 pm

klm617 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
KiloRomeoDelta wrote:

Not even a 777, it was an A320 which could have used any of the 100 other gates at ATL that Delta decided to park at the only gate that can take an A380. Not petty at all la la la...


Since when does Delta handle gate assignments on E at ATL?


Since the beginning of time. It's an gentleman's agreement between DL and all it's hub airports take care of us or we will retaliate in a not so nice way.


Delta has preferred access to the CUTE gates on F, this wasn't an E gate, but they also have preferred access there too. The QR plane wasn't scheduled far enough in advance for the ATL CUTE policy so DL had every right to park their plane there.
 
sxf24
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:39 pm

11725Flyer wrote:
Correct move by Delta. They're under no obligation to help out a competitor. No matter how you feel, Emirates should be prepared for any maintenance issue that may arise.


It is totally normal behavior for airlines to share (sell) spare parts to each other. You usually extend the favor because you never know when you're going to need it returned. I'd add that airport staff are generally quite friendly with their counterparts at other airlines.

Someone in ATL instructuing the part be removed after it was installed is shortsighted and petty. It very likely diminished the value and utility of the part.
 
jayunited
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:49 pm

I understand both sides of the argument in most cases airlines do help out their competitors in emergency situations when they may need a part but don't have it available locally. Reading some of the internal maintenance reports US3 help each other out all the time. However there is no rule or regulation that requires another airline to supply a part to a competitor it just an unstated gentleman rule. So whether you agree with DL's decision or not they have every right to refuse to help a competitor.

I will say the US3 have done a great job making sure they have parts available at many stations all over the world and if the parts are not at the local station then they are at a hub or a busy international station. For instance UA stocks a lot of part at LHR and FRA to support their European flights. If a flight goes tech UA can dispatch parts from either LHR or FRA and if necessary mechanics from LHR. Same is true for Asia UA stocks parts at NRT and HKG, so while you may disagree with DL's decision they acted well within their rights. AS many flights as EK operates to the U.S. if they are not stocking parts at a station on the East and West Coast then perhaps they need to start so they don't find themselves in this situation again.
 
B737900ER
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:50 pm

So when Burger King runs out of beef McDonald's is under obligation to supply them why?

Sounds like business being business to me.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:51 pm

I don't trust either carrier to speak the truth, but it's totally plausible that DL would pull such a stunt based on their actions in the past. A disgusting culture infests that airline.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:51 pm

11725Flyer wrote:
Correct move by Delta. They're under no obligation to help out a competitor. No matter how you feel, Emirates should be prepared for any maintenance issue that may arise.


What Delta did (if the assertions in the Bloomberg article are true) is so egregiously immoral that no one should countenance their wickedness.

Delta could have refused to make the part available for any reason they chose. But they did not do that.

After they made the part available, and after it had been installed on the Emirates' aircraft, they caused it to be removed in a wicked, immoral, fit of spleen.

If this is "business as usual" I hoped the practice is limited to Delta, and that they be considered as a pariah within the airlines industry.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:53 pm

A $300 part is probably some standard hydraulic fitting or hose. A $300 part very well could have been a hose being temporarily installed because a hydraulic tube broke, cracked or was leaking excessively. It happens every day. Valves and custom tubes that are unique to an airplane type are usually more expensive than that.

dtw2hyd wrote:
They could have borrowed from one of their builds at Everette.


Boeing has a giant parts warehouse at the north end of Sea-Tac Airport. They have everything from hydraulic fittings to a spare landing gear.

However most airlines prefer to loan, borrow and buy parts from other airlines. It is extremely common for an airline to go to another with a big operation to buy a part from their spares inventory. It is usually faster and cheaper than getting a brand new part from Boeing.

I have never heard of an airline taking a part back that had been installed on a different airplane. Something is wrong with this because Delta can't always return that part back in their inventory if it was sold and installed on an airplane outside of their control. They probably will need some type of inspection paper work to document that it is useable again.
Last edited by Newbiepilot on Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
B737900ER
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:54 pm

jayunited wrote:
Reading some of the internal maintenance reports US3 help each other out all the time.

There are also many instances when they refuse to sell parts. It's not uncommon. There are even parts in the inventory listed as do not sell. So DL was well within their right to refuse to help.
 
B737900ER
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:59 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
11725Flyer wrote:
Correct move by Delta. They're under no obligation to help out a competitor. No matter how you feel, Emirates should be prepared for any maintenance issue that may arise.


What Delta did (if the assertions in the Bloomberg article are true) is so egregiously immoral that no one should countenance their wickedness.

Delta could have refused to make the part available for any reason they chose. But they did not do that.

After they made the part available, and after it had been installed on the Emirates' aircraft, they caused it to be removed in a wicked, immoral, fit of spleen.

If this is "business as usual" I hoped the practice is limited to Delta, and that they be considered as a pariah within the airlines industry.

Really? Genocide is wicked. Refusing to sell their property isn't something anyone could classify as "egregiously immoral"
Get a grip people.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:02 am

B737900ER wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Reading some of the internal maintenance reports US3 help each other out all the time.

There are also many instances when they refuse to sell parts. It's not uncommon. There are even parts in the inventory listed as do not sell. So DL was well within their right to refuse to help.


It is very common for airlines to refuse to sell parts to another. Many times they want the part for themselves, have limited inventory, or don't have the time or approval to sell a part. Most airlines cooperate with each other. Occasionally there are disputes that sour a relationship, but even the most outwardly competitive airlines often help each other. You never know when you will be grounded and need help. Unless you happen to be at a spares distribution center for Boeing or Airbus, buying a part from the manufacturer rarely saves a flight from being cancelled whereas borrowing from the local airline probably works better.

Now Delta probably won't be buying much from Emirates. They don't fly to Dubai and Emirates probably doesn't have large parts inventories available to at outstations that Delta flies to. Delta has much better options at LHR for example.

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