Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
infinit
Posts: 1058
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:12 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:12 am

conflats wrote:
Why would EK not just give Boeing a call when they were in Seattle? Seems fishy this story


My sentiments exact.
 
User avatar
BobPatterson
Posts: 3416
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:18 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:15 am

B737900ER wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
11725Flyer wrote:
Correct move by Delta. They're under no obligation to help out a competitor. No matter how you feel, Emirates should be prepared for any maintenance issue that may arise.


What Delta did (if the assertions in the Bloomberg article are true) is so egregiously immoral that no one should countenance their wickedness.

Delta could have refused to make the part available for any reason they chose. But they did not do that.

After they made the part available, and after it had been installed on the Emirates' aircraft, they caused it to be removed in a wicked, immoral, fit of spleen.

If this is "business as usual" I hoped the practice is limited to Delta, and that they be considered as a pariah within the airlines industry.

Really? Genocide is wicked. Refusing to sell their property isn't something anyone could classify as "egregiously immoral"
Get a grip people.


Read what I wrote. I said they could have refused to sell/make available the part for any reason.

Their wicked immoral behavior began AFTER they agreed to sell the part and it was installed. They reneged, broke a contract, and acted as a petulant child. They need a good spanking.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8412
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:20 am

BobPatterson wrote:
11725Flyer wrote:
Correct move by Delta. They're under no obligation to help out a competitor. No matter how you feel, Emirates should be prepared for any maintenance issue that may arise.


What Delta did (if the assertions in the Bloomberg article are true) is so egregiously immoral that no one should countenance their wickedness.

Delta could have refused to make the part available for any reason they chose. But they did not do that.

After they made the part available, and after it had been installed on the Emirates' aircraft, they caused it to be removed in a wicked, immoral, fit of spleen.

If this is "business as usual" I hoped the practice is limited to Delta, and that they be considered as a pariah within the airlines industry.

Really, they should have gotten a TRO from local judge pleading irreparable damage.
All posts are just opinions.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9305
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:21 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
11725Flyer wrote:
Correct move by Delta. They're under no obligation to help out a competitor. No matter how you feel, Emirates should be prepared for any maintenance issue that may arise.


What Delta did (if the assertions in the Bloomberg article are true) is so egregiously immoral that no one should countenance their wickedness.

Delta could have refused to make the part available for any reason they chose. But they did not do that.

After they made the part available, and after it had been installed on the Emirates' aircraft, they caused it to be removed in a wicked, immoral, fit of spleen.

If this is "business as usual" I hoped the practice is limited to Delta, and that they be considered as a pariah within the airlines industry.

Really, they should have gotten a TRO from local judge pleading irreparable damage.


Good one! Seattle's answer for everything ;)
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
Tedd
Posts: 474
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:22 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:23 am

I find it hard to believe this story. Is it naïve of me to think that the airlines would go out of their way help each other in
the knowledge it would one day be reciprocated? Each would understand the misery to passengers, the financial cost
to themselves, & the knock-on effect to schedules that would ensue to make any refusal to help seem totally ridiculous.
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:26 am

BobPatterson wrote:
B737900ER wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:

What Delta did (if the assertions in the Bloomberg article are true) is so egregiously immoral that no one should countenance their wickedness.

Delta could have refused to make the part available for any reason they chose. But they did not do that.

After they made the part available, and after it had been installed on the Emirates' aircraft, they caused it to be removed in a wicked, immoral, fit of spleen.

If this is "business as usual" I hoped the practice is limited to Delta, and that they be considered as a pariah within the airlines industry.

Really? Genocide is wicked. Refusing to sell their property isn't something anyone could classify as "egregiously immoral"
Get a grip people.


Read what I wrote. I said they could have refused to sell/make available the part for any reason.

Their wicked immoral behavior began AFTER they agreed to sell the part and it was installed. They reneged, broke a contract, and acted as a petulant child. They need a good spanking.

Once the part is sold it no longer belongs to DL, which makes me question the accuracy of the story. However if the part is borrowed delta can ask for it back whenever they'd like. It's unlikely EK would borrow a 300 dollar part because the rent on it would be three times as much. If that did happen it's petty, but wickedly immoral? There's a whole lot more wrong with the world that goes in that category, but not this.
 
User avatar
AerolineasAR343
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:43 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:44 am

What I don't get is, if the story going around is correct, why did Emirates allowed that the part be removed from their aircraft if it had already been installed and, I assume, paid for aswell? From that moment on, it's Emirates part and they can do whatever they want with it, it doesn't make any sense that they would allow other company to just take their property like that. Something smells here, IMO.
 
bluejuice
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:55 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:46 am

Based on my experience as an AA passenger, I've has 3 occasions out of ATL where DL provided a part or technical assistance and one occasion where UA provided a part out of SFO. Seems airlines are willing to provide mutual assistance when they can. One captain even called out the fact that they may be rivals on the business side, no one wants to have an unsafe plane in the air. If it truly was the last part on hand, I do not blame Delta for not letting it go. Sure they could have borrow the part from AS but that would mean they would have to take a longer delay, Immoral is a very strong word to use.
Not biased against vacuum flush.
 
User avatar
BobPatterson
Posts: 3416
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:18 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:54 am

AerolineasAR343 wrote:
What I don't get is, if the story going around is correct, why did Emirates allowed that the part be removed from their aircraft if it had already been installed and, I assume, paid for aswell? From that moment on, it's Emirates part and they can do whatever they want with it, it doesn't make any sense that they would allow other company to just take their property like that. Something smells here, IMO.


Several such questions beg for answers.

I'm just guessing that Emirates called the local engineering shop to look at their problem, and the mechanic knew he could get the part from Delta. Why not from Alaska or Boeing? Who knows, maybe it would have taken longer. Just get the job done and the plane back in service.

I'd also guess that the directive from Delta to take back the part came along shortly after it was installed and the same mechanic, perhaps fearing unwanted trouble, took the easy way out and "recovered" the part without holding a conference between his employer, Delta and Emirates.

Maybe I'm all wet with this scenario. But maybe something like this is what really happened.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
7673mech
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:10 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:01 am

ER757 wrote:
jakubz wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
I have two questions:

1). Since this happened in SEA with Boeing's HQ just down the road - why didn't they just get it directly from Boeing?


Umm... Boeings HQ is in Chicago, not Seattle. Unless you were refering to Renton or Everett.

Probably meant Boeing Spares which is at the north end of KSEA. You'd think they'd have the part in stock but I'm sure EK asked them first before trying to source it elsewhere.


Getting something from Boeing spares is not as easy as going to Auto Zone.
Even paying AOG fees it takes hours sometimes to get something pulled.
Also believe it or not sometimes they are out or have it in a different city.
 
travaz
Posts: 902
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:03 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:15 am

While there is no question that Delta has the right to refuse Emirates the part, the fact that it was installed and then removed is strange. I also understand the rule about the last one in inventory. It seems that the simple answer was to get AS to give Delta thier part and Emirates continue on its way with Emirates reimbursing AS. The whole story has questions on both sides. As the saying goes: There are 2 sides to the story and the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
 
GamingPolaris
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:20 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:19 am

It could be a possibility that EK is using the supposed, "DL sells $300 part and takes it back" as an excuse to cover for the delayed flight. Think about it, if EK tells that to its passengers or/and the public, there wouldn't be criticism for EK, but instead towards DL, which is exactly what's happening.

I honestly believe it is a petty excuse used by EK and it's just killing two birds with one stone. It's not only turning the passengers/public attention away from them, but also making DL look bad.
 
StrandedAtMKG
Posts: 304
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:51 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:00 am

I'm totally puzzled by the mindset of people in this thread who seem to think it's incumbent upon DL or any other carrier to bail out a competitor in any situation, much less providing a piddly little aircraft part at an outstation. They're a *competitor*. Screw 'em. The situation wouldn't be any different if it was Emirates, with whom they're currently embroiled in a multi-national public policy battle, or a reasonably friendly domestic carrier like United. Whether they were down to their last part at SEA or had fifty lying around is irrelevant. The parts are DL's to use as they see fit. As for being sympathetic to Emirates' passengers, again, screw 'em. They had the option of flying a DL alliance or codeshare partner and they chose not to. They're not Delta's responsibility. If Emirates can't provide reliable service on their own metal, that's their problem.
 
Varsity1
Posts: 2226
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:23 am

EK should be embarrassed to rely on a COMPEDITOR for parts.

"Hey, let us steal your traffic and while we're at it we'll try to publicly shame you for not fixing our airplanes."
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
69bug
Posts: 159
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:28 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:28 am

On some routes where there is commonality airlines will enter into a reciprocal agreement for certain items, things like tyres and filters and other common items.

It is common for airlines to make it difficult in order to gain in some other way.

One example.. My airline was handled by a smaller handling company which was not a division of an airline but rather a stand-alone. The major handling agent was part of the flag-carrier with full facilities in the airport. One day I had a flight came in with high vibration in one engine. This resulted in a boroscope and eventually required an engine-change.

We requested hangar space from the Main handling agent as our handlers did not have hangars, the initial answer was no and after a few hours of 'negotiating' we were allowed to park in the hangar but there were a lot of references to the fact that it would have been much easier if we were their customer.

Another example of the pettiness that can come in at a lower level. One day I had to handle a military flight from the country where the airline I worked for is based (this is quite normal). On this occasion there was no tow-bar and we requested ad-hoc provision of a tow-barless tug from a rival company.

The original company refused to provide a steering bypass pin on the basis that the pin was part of the push-back service!. The plane had a pin in the cockpit and we used that. After push completed the pilot dangled a string out the DV window and we tied the pin to it and they went on their way. Well we could have re-positioned the steps and handed over the pin but the string was so much simpler!

There are also examples where airlines go out of their way to help each other. Pre-09/11 it was common for airlines to carry parts for other 'by safe hand of captain'. You just walked up to an aircraft which was heading to where you wanted the part to go, speak to the ground engineer and Pilots.. wait for the aircraft to get airborne and call the receiving station.

Operations guys tend to help out as there is the '..there but for the grace of God ...' mentality but in these crazy times your bosses would take a dim view of you helping out the opposition. Especially if the part is the last you have on hand. I wouldn't like to be the one who has to answer if the part is required and its not in stock.

Have a nice day
Anil
 
jbflyguy84
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:30 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:36 am

StrandedAtMKG wrote:
I'm totally puzzled by the mindset of people in this thread who seem to think it's incumbent upon DL or any other carrier to bail out a competitor in any situation, much less providing a piddly little aircraft part at an outstation. They're a *competitor*. Screw 'em. The situation wouldn't be any different if it was Emirates, with whom they're currently embroiled in a multi-national public policy battle, or a reasonably friendly domestic carrier like United. Whether they were down to their last part at SEA or had fifty lying around is irrelevant. The parts are DL's to use as they see fit. As for being sympathetic to Emirates' passengers, again, screw 'em. They had the option of flying a DL alliance or codeshare partner and they chose not to. They're not Delta's responsibility. If Emirates can't provide reliable service on their own metal, that's their problem.


Its not incument - I don't think one person here as said DL must give EK the said part.

Moving onto the rest of your rant, as some of the posters have alluded upthread, although the bosses of the two organisations are at loggerheads with one another, the working level certainly isn't. We all help one another when the proverbial hits the fan. Engineers source parts from other airlines, check in agents source seats from other airlines, ramp staff use other airlines or other GHAs equipment. At the end of the day all we care about is getting the freakin' aircraft off the ground safely and as ontime as possible. I work for one of the ME3. I guess it would surprise you my employer has internline agreements with all the US majors and I as an employee also get non rev tickets on the US majors (and minors to be honest) just as they get access to our flights.

The point of my post is that while the top boys and girls might be bitching and moaning publicly (all sides are included here - what my boss has been talking about recently I do not agree with at all), us on the ground are not. Get em in, get em off, get em on and get em out. Thats it then its time to chill.
 
CaliAtenza
Posts: 1686
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:43 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:39 am

JetPilotMike wrote:
Bravo Delta! The ME3 are screwing the US3 over at every opportunity with their government subsidized flights from the US to all over the world. Very few people want to go to Doha or Dubai, yet they operate hundreds of the largest jets in the world. Since they have priced the US3 out of flying to the Middle East, there is very little chance Delta will need a part at their hub. Maybe Delta offered the part at a price they wouldn't agree to, so uninstalled it was!


Very few people want to go to Doha or Dubai? Can someone here pull up the figures...
 
catiii
Posts: 3607
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:42 am

klm617 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
KiloRomeoDelta wrote:

Not even a 777, it was an A320 which could have used any of the 100 other gates at ATL that Delta decided to park at the only gate that can take an A380. Not petty at all la la la...


Since when does Delta handle gate assignments on E at ATL?


Since the beginning of time. It's an gentleman's agreement between DL and all it's hub airports take care of us or we will retaliate in a not so nice way.


Incorrect. Delta doesn't handle gate assignments at E. The airport does.
 
UAEflyer
Posts: 1265
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:29 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:42 am

What if DL needed that part and EK installed and took it back again ? I think DL will call POTUS to ban EK !
Just remember that EK manners are unlike DL.
 
catiii
Posts: 3607
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:46 am

BobPatterson wrote:
11725Flyer wrote:
Correct move by Delta. They're under no obligation to help out a competitor. No matter how you feel, Emirates should be prepared for any maintenance issue that may arise.


What Delta did (if the assertions in the Bloomberg article are true) is so egregiously immoral that no one should countenance their wickedness.

Delta could have refused to make the part available for any reason they chose. But they did not do that.

After they made the part available, and after it had been installed on the Emirates' aircraft, they caused it to be removed in a wicked, immoral, fit of spleen.

If this is "business as usual" I hoped the practice is limited to Delta, and that they be considered as a pariah within the airlines industry.


Wickedness? This is sarcasm, right?
 
DexSwart
Posts: 748
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:03 am

JetPilotMike wrote:
Bravo Delta! The ME3 are screwing the US3 over at every opportunity with their government subsidized flights from the US to all over the world. Very few people want to go to Doha or Dubai, yet they operate hundreds of the largest jets in the world. Since they have priced the US3 out of flying to the Middle East, there is very little chance Delta will need a part at their hub. Maybe Delta offered the part at a price they wouldn't agree to, so uninstalled it was!



Few things:

1: If the Middle East is somewhere that "no one wants to fly to" then why is it such a loss for the US3 to not fly there?

2: The USA is NOT the be all and end all aviation market in the world. Not everything that an airline does is to spite the USA.

3: Dubai had 14 million tourist visits in 2015. Doesn't seem like "very few people want to go there"

Welcome to the forum, however lets use facts. :)
Durban. Melbourne. Denver. Hong Kong.
 
User avatar
BobPatterson
Posts: 3416
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:18 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:07 am

catiii wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
11725Flyer wrote:
Correct move by Delta. They're under no obligation to help out a competitor. No matter how you feel, Emirates should be prepared for any maintenance issue that may arise.


What Delta did (if the assertions in the Bloomberg article are true) is so egregiously immoral that no one should countenance their wickedness.

Delta could have refused to make the part available for any reason they chose. But they did not do that.

After they made the part available, and after it had been installed on the Emirates' aircraft, they caused it to be removed in a wicked, immoral, fit of spleen.

If this is "business as usual" I hoped the practice is limited to Delta, and that they be considered as a pariah within the airlines industry.


Wickedness? This is sarcasm, right?


No sarcasm. From the Bloomberg news article cited by OP:

"Qatar Air Chief Executive Officer Akbar Al Baker branded Delta “wicked” last year after the Doha-based carrier’s first flight to Atlanta with the Airbus Group SE A380 superjumbo was directed to a remote gate at the world’s busiest airport, leaving elderly and infirm passengers to disembark via temporary stairs rather than through the usual air-bridge."

Delta was wicked then in Atlanta and was also wicked just now in Seattle. I won't bother posting definitions from Webster's, but I just checked and the usage of "wicked" is appropriate.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
coolian2
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:34 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:12 am

If Delta had simply said no, that's fair play. To install the part, then demand to yank it? That's pathetic.
Q300/ATR72-600/737-200/-300/-400/-700/-800/A320/767-200/-300/757-200/777-300ER/
747-200/-300/-400/ER/A340-300/A380-800/MD-83/-88/CRJ-700/-900
 
alyusuph
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:38 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:54 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
B737900ER wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Reading some of the internal maintenance reports US3 help each other out all the time.

There are also many instances when they refuse to sell parts. It's not uncommon. There are even parts in the inventory listed as do not sell. So DL was well within their right to refuse to help.


It is very common for airlines to refuse to sell parts to another. Many times they want the part for themselves, have limited inventory, or don't have the time or approval to sell a part. Most airlines cooperate with each other. Occasionally there are disputes that sour a relationship, but even the most outwardly competitive airlines often help each other. You never know when you will be grounded and need help. Unless you happen to be at a spares distribution center for Boeing or Airbus, buying a part from the manufacturer rarely saves a flight from being cancelled whereas borrowing from the local airline probably works better.

Now Delta probably won't be buying much from Emirates. They don't fly to Dubai and Emirates probably doesn't have large parts inventories available to at outstations that Delta flies to. Delta has much better options at LHR for example.


DL should better not plan scheduled flights to Dubai soon...better wait until the wounds heal properly..
I am not an Airbus or Boeing fan, just an aircraft fan
 
ubeema
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:48 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:01 am

If only DL was as diligent with their IT infrastructure as they dealt with this situation, DL customers will probably stand to gain a lot. It is unfortunate how businesses (DL is not alone as you know it) too often put their efforts in the wrong places in terms of policies and/or SOPs.
 
Nabz82
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:09 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:18 am

Delta should not have allowed the 'part' to be used and then taken back.. that delays possible other options for Emirates in this case. Time was wasted due to Delta's mismanagement in this situation... After reading the entire article, EK proved to be the class act they are.!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8137
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:13 am

I don't trust the stories and hyperbole coming out of all sides in this matter. I don't trust what EK is saying, I don't trust what DL is saying, and I don't trust the media's interpretation or listing of this event. There is far too much posturing by all sides to and not enough information to draw any conclusions in this matter. Particularly from people who don't understand the business or the reasons why things may or may not occur or be acceptable business practices.
 
User avatar
PerfectGriffin
Posts: 539
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:35 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:48 am

coolian2 wrote:
If Delta had simply said no, that's fair play. To install the part, then demand to yank it? That's pathetic.


I agree.
And Delta served DXB for nearly 10 years. I'm sure there was at least one occasion when they bought parts from EK.
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 5732
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:50 am

Delta has a history of not wanting to play well with others. It's totally within their rights to behave that way if they wish.

I see it less about DL vs ME3 & more about an unspoken obligation to keep passengers moving, even if it's not your own bird that's doing the lifting. It used to be a great industry with help from other carriers when needed, now it's more like, I got mine, so screw you even if it takes innocent passengers into a lengthy delay.

Just today, the fact that DL doesn't accept passengers from other carriers, we had family stuck in Virginia when AA cancelled their flight. So I have zero love loss for DL, but again, they are free to act in any manner they wish & let the public interpret the situation for themselves.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1500
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:28 am

RWA380 wrote:
Delta has a history of not wanting to play well with others. It's totally within their rights to behave that way if they wish.

I see it less about DL vs ME3 & more about an unspoken obligation to keep passengers moving, even if it's not your own bird that's doing the lifting. It used to be a great industry with help from other carriers when needed, now it's more like, I got mine, so screw you even if it takes innocent passengers into a lengthy delay.

Just today, the fact that DL doesn't accept passengers from other carriers, we had family stuck in Virginia when AA cancelled their flight. So I have zero love loss for DL, but again, they are free to act in any manner they wish & let the public interpret the situation for themselves.


Oh, please. no carrier accept other airlines PAX when they cancel flights due to bad WX. they do that to keep the seats for their customer's.
2,600 flight were cancelled.

If your going to dog on DL then, at least let people who aren't in the industry know that's every airlines policy not just DL.
If DL had CNX the flight AA would't of take our customers.


It's still a great industry, and DL's policy is to help other airlines out if they can but their first priority is to look after their customers first.

i'm just going to paste below what happened.

Delta Spokesman Michael Thomas said the item in question was the last spare of its kind in Delta's Seattle inventory, company policy
requires that it keeps the last one on hand in case Delta needs it.
 
iamlucky13
Posts: 1239
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:35 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:44 am

coolian2 wrote:
If Delta had simply said no, that's fair play. To install the part, then demand to yank it? That's pathetic.


Which is a big part of why the story the way Emirates tells it is rather hard to believe. What legal authority does Delta have to demand the part be removed after it's been installed? Even if it hadn't been installed, but had been handed over to Emirates' possession, I'm struggling to understand how even refusing to process the payment would have given Delta authority to do so.
 
coolian2
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:34 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:54 am

iamlucky13 wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
If Delta had simply said no, that's fair play. To install the part, then demand to yank it? That's pathetic.


Which is a big part of why the story the way Emirates tells it is rather hard to believe. What legal authority does Delta have to demand the part be removed after it's been installed? Even if it hadn't been installed, but had been handed over to Emirates' possession, I'm struggling to understand how even refusing to process the payment would have given Delta authority to do so.

"We aren't going to continue the lease arrangement and require return immediately"
Q300/ATR72-600/737-200/-300/-400/-700/-800/A320/767-200/-300/757-200/777-300ER/
747-200/-300/-400/ER/A340-300/A380-800/MD-83/-88/CRJ-700/-900
 
ExDubai
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:52 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:59 am

KarelXWB wrote:
PerfectGriffin wrote:
Wow, that's very immature. Delta is starting to lose my respect with their childish behaviour.


Just because one random manager removed the order doesn't mean we should blame the entire company. We don't know why the manager acted this way: is it company policy to bully the ME3, did the manager had a bad day or does the manager have personal issues with the ME3?


If it was really the last part in stock, I do understand that. If not........
Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2368
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:59 am

I am lost here. So they paid for it, it was installed and then it was removed? In law surely when it was purchased it technically then was owned by EK? If DL removed it post that then shame on them but I am on the fence here, this does not add up.
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3670
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:48 am

Can I ask who the mechanic works for? Emirates usually uses contract mechanics, and I suspect that the mechanic at SEA works for Delta.
If so he probably took the part from his own stores and fixed the Emirates plane. Then when he sent the details to his stores base, they told him he should not have done that and please get it back.
 
Super Em
Posts: 427
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 7:55 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:58 am

Don't be so quick to judge. Maybe Delta's inventory is to blame. The Loans And Borrow desk probably saw they had a qty of 2 in stock so they lent out the part to Emirates.
When the stores guy checks inventory they find out it was the last one. As per Delta rules, they cannot loan out their last part. They ask for their part back. Unfortunate but it happens.

And its not that easy to go to a manufacturer at the last minute and buy parts. There's usually lead times for parts and if you want it right away I'm sure they would ask a ton load money.

Going to delta was probably the fastest and most cost effective way.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9391
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:33 am

Emirates got the part somewhere else and the frame was 6 hours delayed. So restocking should not have been difficult. To supply the part and than when it is installed, to reclaim it, seems to a bit petty. If Delta dos not want to help Emirates, they should be upfront about it.
 
vfw614
Posts: 3852
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:51 am

...the difference being that DL apparently first agreed to sell the part, Emirates installed and then had to remove it, wasting hours of time and inconveniencing 300 pax.

Given a) DL's history of childish behaviour and b) that certainly a company policy is in place how to deal with a last spare part in the inventory and/or which parts cannot be sold at all, this all smells rather fishy and could very well have been a deliberate act of pettiness and sort of slow-walking EK's maintenance challenge. Would DL have immediately said "no, we are not going to sell because as per company policy [...]", EK could have sourced the tool with minimum delay elsewhere (e.g. down the road at Boeing...).

Let's hope for DL that they will not have an AOG somewhere in the Middle East at some point, needing a spare part from one of the ME3. Their alternatives down there will be much more limited than EK's was in Seattle....
 
FrancisBegbie
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:22 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:03 am

mjoelnir wrote:
Emirates got the part somewhere else and the frame was 6 hours delayed. So restocking should not have been difficult. To supply the part and than when it is installed, to reclaim it, seems to a bit petty. If Delta dos not want to help Emirates, they should be upfront about it.


Exactly. If Emirates could get the part from AS in 6 hours, Delta could also after they had helped out EK and then realized they were out of stock, get the missing part replaced from AS' stock (and maybe even send the bill to EK if there was a price difference). So they would've been without the part for only a few hours.

I like it much better when they cooperate and don't dupe passengers.

From my own experience: I once got snowed in and could not get back home overnight. The next day, direct flights back home were a nightmare. I got offered alternative flights via a fellow Skyteam partner or via a star alliance competitor and the front desk did honestly not care a bit which one I chose. That's helping each other and the passengers out the way it should be.
 
User avatar
KruegerFlaps
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:17 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:11 am

This does seem to be a weird way to do business. From the linked article, it appears that DL agreed to sell the part, not lend it. They subsequently decided not to accept payment by credit card. Now isn't that something that you would state before handing over the part? Why hand it over, allow it to be installed and only then decide that payment must be by another means?

Rather than being a deliberate act by DL to frustrate a rival carrier, I suspect a bit of negligence on the part of at least one person. It is unclear whether the incompetency stems from the person agreeing to the original sale of the part, or the person refusing payment.

If the story is true, I can only hope that EK does not come down to that level if DL ever need a hand.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt Speech, 1783
 
TC957
Posts: 3840
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:17 am

Surely EK could have flown in the said spare part from DXB on their next flight to SEA to replace DL's precious stock ? That would have been a more professional way of dealing with this. Just as well DL don't serve DXB anymore for one of their 777's to go tech there.
 
WIederling
Posts: 9346
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:24 am

KruegerFlaps wrote:
Rather than being a deliberate act by DL to frustrate a rival carrier, I suspect a bit of negligence on the part of at least one person. It is unclear whether the incompetency stems from the person agreeing to the original sale of the part, or the person refusing payment.

If the story is true, I can only hope that EK does not come down to that level if DL ever need a hand.


I'm a bit surprised that up front payment was required at all.

If I need something urgent from a long time coop partner I'd expect to get the item together with a delivery note
and maybe signing a receipt. Invoice and payment would go the regular way ... .
Murphy is an optimist
 
conflats
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:06 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:41 am

Another point I was just thinking of is, Emirates is one of the largest 777 operators out there and the plane is assembled in Seattle.

Planes need spare parts and supposedly this flight would be carrying spare parts back to Dubai. On here previously there have been threads saying ek don't fly the A380 to SEA as it can't carry as much cargo as the 77W. I can't understand why they needed delta at all.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8412
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:42 am

Both DL and EK are members of International Airline Technical Pool, which allows them to share parts. I am sure DL (and another other US carriers) supply parts to EK on a regular basis.

IATP members reconcile payments, EK offering CC payment and DL denying story is just a journalistic hatch job.
Why Alaska Airlines would have a B777 part in stock? Is the author trying to say AS obtained part for EK.

Sounds like a planted story. This is the result.of an airline spending more on publicity than aircraft leases.
All posts are just opinions.
 
B777LRF
Posts: 2711
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:02 pm

Once upon a time, airlines would literally bend over backwards to help a colleague in need out. And they did this knowing the colleague would do the same for them.

Many moons ago I was supervising a load-control department for a large integrator at one of their hubs. A local carrier approached us, advising they had an AOG A300 with 300-odd passengers waiting to go on their vacation. The aircraft needed a new main-wheel and tire, and our freighter was the only aircraft a) large enough and b) going in the right direction. Trouble was, our flight was already full. I spoke with our operations manager, told him a bit about how airlines help each other out, and we agreed to off-load low priority freight in order to accommodate the wheel. We did not report this decision up the tree, so the airline never saw an invoice.

Few weeks later one of our aicraft goes tits up, in need of a part we could only find with Air Europa in PMI. Trouble was getting it from PMI to where it was needed. Quick call to the airline we helped out earlier and, yes they did have a flight from PMI later that day and, yes, they'd be happy to carry the part. Free of charge, of course.

This is what used to make the airline world go around; professionals helping each other out when the smelly stuff hit the spinning bits.
Signature. You just read one.
 
WIederling
Posts: 9346
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:10 pm

B777LRF wrote:
This is what used to make the airline world go around; professionals helping each other out when the smelly stuff hit the spinning bits.


This imho is a hint at the future
and could be a subconcious reveal that he US Three seem to be sure that they will no longer need to kiss up to the ME Three even in day to day helpful cooperation ...
Expect massive table tilting by Trump to the advantage of all things American.

Then I am wondering about what the blowback will turn out to be.
Murphy is an optimist
 
sxf24
Posts: 1007
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:48 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Why Alaska Airlines would have a B777 part in stock? Is the author trying to say AS obtained part for EK.

Sounds like a planted story. This is the result.of an airline spending more on publicity than aircraft leases.


It sounds like a standard commodity that is common across multiple aircraft, like a hose or fitting as previously mentioned. These type of parts aren't made by Boeing and might not be stocked in Seattle, which is why EK went to the only airline with a wide body maintenance base in Seattle.

As to he PR angle, Bloomberg has some of the best aviation journalists of any mainstream publication. I trust they wouldn't write a fake story. Also, I suggest you edit your post unless you can prove there is an airline spending more on publicity than leases.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8412
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:51 pm

conflats wrote:
On here previously there have been threads saying ek don't fly the A380 to SEA as it can't carry as much cargo as the 77W.


That's just a travel agent folklore or an excuse to justify lightly loaded double dailes.
All posts are just opinions.
 
sxf24
Posts: 1007
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:00 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
conflats wrote:
On here previously there have been threads saying ek don't fly the A380 to SEA as it can't carry as much cargo as the 77W.


That's just a travel agent folklore or an excuse to justify lightly loaded double dailes.


Seattle can't handle the A380. Two flights also allow for more connectivity. The rotation in question, EK227/228, tends to have weaker loads than EK229/230.
 
dtwpilot225
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:31 am

Re: Emirates Says Flight Was Delayed After Delta Withheld $300 Spare Part

Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:00 pm

This is when I hate social media: we don't know what really happen. Delta could have done this, emirates could be making it up. At the end of the day, there are starving children in the world so who cares

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos