wjcandee
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Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:05 pm

A female UA captain was removed from an AUS-SFO flight yesterday after boarding in street clothes, standing in the front of the cabin and activating the PA, whereupon she asked the pax to vote on whether she should change into her uniform. After that, she apologized to the pax of flight 455 (an A319) that she was late, stating that she was going through a divorce, pointed out an inter-racial couple in the front rows, talked about how she didn't vote for either Trump or Hillary because they were both a-holes, and acknowledged that some passengers seemed to be getting uncomfortable, telling them that they could get off the plane and otherwise "we can go".

She was wearing a green cap, green sweater, blue jeans, and flip-flops.

Pax began tweeting UA for a new pilot, which is bizarre to me (I would have called the Airport Police or UA, but okay).

When sensing that pax were getting uncomfortable, the pilot apparently stated, "So I’ll stop, and we’ll fly the plane. Don’t worry. I’m going to let my co-pilot fly it. He’s a man.”

Passengers reported that the pilot was cheery initially but also started crying at one point. Hello, time to disembark!!

I would be curious to know whether the passengers' Tweets caused the removal, or whether the other crew members called for a supervisor or otherwise alerted OPS about the bizarre situation. I have to assume from her comments about a "co-pilot" that she was the CPT, but also because I assume that no captain would accept someone in her state, and given how CRM teaches the obligation of the FO to be assertive, I would likewise have to assume that this would be a circumstance that would trigger the FO to call OPS or at least make an excuse to disembark and discuss the matter with others while off the aircraft. Also, the FAs and gate personnel were similarly in a position to raise issues with their superiors.

I don't agree with the articles' questioning "how she got on the plane" -- she had proper ID. But I do doubt that she could have performed all her pre-flight duties and check-ins without triggering some inquiry. Did she check in? Pick up paperwork and talk to a dispatcher? Interact with gate personnel and pick up printouts, etc., at the podium? I can't believe that she hit all these points of interaction before going down the jetway without causing someone to report it up the chain.

Also, how was she "removed"? Who came and took her off? Did she go willingly? Is she now in the Psych ER?

Instead of harming herself physically, did she just commit "career suicide" over the divorce instead?

She was obviously disconnected from reality. I did have a co-worker summer associate attorney get grease on his shirt while changing a flat on the way to work and, buff guy that he was, show up at the office wearing his suit but no shirt and tie. He actually thought this was the right solution -- don't be late for work but show up with no shirt -- but was just immature not crazy. He was there a couple of hours before a more senior attorney told him to go home and get a shirt. The lack of judgment he displayed in that one incident followed him for the rest of the summer. So this is at least that, but probably much more.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -rant.html (with photos of the pilot talking to pax on the PA)

http://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.com/ ... oard-rant/

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/ ... 2-00-37-16

https://www.buzzfeed.com/salvadorhernan ... .hnRk8eWLr

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Pi ... 11503.html
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:22 pm

Very sad for her, we all handle stress differently. Clearly she will not be flying anytime soon until the airline is happy with her Psych evaluation.
Get well soon.
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silverado6x6
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:38 pm

I would be saying to myself, just what in the heck is going on and would i get into trouble if i said anything.
 
flyguy84
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:43 pm

wjcandee wrote:
A female UA captain was removed from an AUS-SFO flight yesterday after boarding in street clothes, standing in the front of the cabin and activating the PA, whereupon she asked the pax to vote on whether she should change into her uniform. After that, she apologized to the pax of flight 455 (an A319) that she was late, stating that she was going through a divorce, pointed out an inter-racial couple in the front rows, talked about how she didn't vote for either Trump or Hillary because they were both a-holes, and acknowledged that some passengers seemed to be getting uncomfortable, telling them that they could get off the plane and otherwise "we can go".

She was wearing a green cap, green sweater, blue jeans, and flip-flops.

Pax began tweeting UA for a new pilot, which is bizarre to me (I would have called the Airport Police or UA, but okay).

When sensing that pax were getting uncomfortable, the pilot apparently stated, "So I’ll stop, and we’ll fly the plane. Don’t worry. I’m going to let my co-pilot fly it. He’s a man.”

Passengers reported that the pilot was cheery initially but also started crying at one point. Hello, time to disembark!!

I would be curious to know whether the passengers' Tweets caused the removal, or whether the other crew members called for a supervisor or otherwise alerted OPS about the bizarre situation. I have to assume from her comments about a "co-pilot" that she was the CPT, but also because I assume that no captain would accept someone in her state, and given how CRM teaches the obligation of the FO to be assertive, I would likewise have to assume that this would be a circumstance that would trigger the FO to call OPS or at least make an excuse to disembark and discuss the matter with others while off the aircraft. Also, the FAs and gate personnel were similarly in a position to raise issues with their superiors.

I don't agree with the articles' questioning "how she got on the plane" -- she had proper ID. But I do doubt that she could have performed all her pre-flight duties and check-ins without triggering some inquiry. Did she check in? Pick up paperwork and talk to a dispatcher? Interact with gate personnel and pick up printouts, etc., at the podium? I can't believe that she hit all these points of interaction before going down the jetway without causing someone to report it up the chain.

Also, how was she "removed"? Who came and took her off? Did she go willingly? Is she now in the Psych ER?

Instead of harming herself physically, did she just commit "career suicide" over the divorce instead?

She was obviously disconnected from reality. I did have a co-worker summer associate attorney get grease on his shirt while changing a flat on the way to work and, buff guy that he was, show up at the office wearing his suit but no shirt and tie. He actually thought this was the right solution -- don't be late for work but show up with no shirt -- but was just immature not crazy. He was there a couple of hours before a more senior attorney told him to go home and get a shirt. The lack of judgment he displayed in that one incident followed him for the rest of the summer. So this is at least that, but probably much more.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -rant.html (with photos of the pilot talking to pax on the PA)

http://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.com/ ... oard-rant/

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/ ... 2-00-37-16

https://www.buzzfeed.com/salvadorhernan ... .hnRk8eWLr

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Pi ... 11503.html


At an outstation the only likely interaction she would have would be from the gate agent. She can retrieve and sign the paperwork on the iPad and no need to call the dispatcher if everything looked good.
SFO
 
aviatorcraig
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:53 pm

Just think for a minute about the potential of her being a Federal Flight Deck Officer and legally carrying a weapon...
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planeophilic
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:02 pm

wjcandee wrote:

Pax began tweeting UA for a new pilot, which is bizarre to me (I would have called the Airport Police or UA, but okay).



I foresee a time in the near future when people will tweet for 911, tweet for Pizza delivery, tweet for emergency toilet paper, tweet for ''mom make dinner''....
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SWADawg
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:06 pm

She's probably done. The FAA will probably suspend her medical due to psychological reasons and it will be very difficult and time consuming for her to get it back. If she does manage to get it back, she will still face discipline from UA for her actions. Pilots rightly or wrongly are held to a higher standard than most other jobs and there will be severe ramifications for her actions unfortunately. Hopefully she gets the help she needs, but her career as a professional pilot maybe over.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:30 pm

Ascending to rank of Captain at a major legacy airline is an impressive collection of work and smarts for this woman. It's very sad that this happened and I hope UA takes into account all the behavioral circumstances that caused this to happen. Yes, she's a professional who should put those life events (divorce, political pressure) aside. But that's easier said than done.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:38 pm

wjcandee wrote:
I don't agree with the articles' questioning "how she got on the plane" -- she had proper ID. But I do doubt that she could have performed all her pre-flight duties and check-ins without triggering some inquiry. Did she check in? Pick up paperwork and talk to a dispatcher? Interact with gate personnel and pick up printouts, etc., at the podium? I can't believe that she hit all these points of interaction before going down the jetway without causing someone to report it up the chain.


Check in? At an outstation? It's called showing up for work. Paperwork is in the airplane and as was said, I've never once seen a crew call a dispatcher without there being some sort of issue.
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highflier92660
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:50 pm

Meg Ryan as Capt. Karen Walden in the movie Courage Under Fire: "It's just stress ass ****!" :white:
 
bigb
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:54 pm

SWADawg wrote:
She's probably done. The FAA will probably suspend her medical due to psychological reasons and it will be very difficult and time consuming for her to get it back. If she does manage to get it back, she will still face discipline from UA for her actions. Pilots rightly or wrongly are held to a higher standard than most other jobs and there will be severe ramifications for her actions unfortunately. Hopefully she gets the help she needs, but her career as a professional pilot maybe over.


I think it is far from help. The Union will get her the help she needs and once she is good to go, she will be back in the air.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:55 pm

It seems this alleged pilot was either under the influence of drugs or had a mental health breakdown. One has to wonder if there had been signs before of this person's mental health, but too many afraid to say something and health privacy laws getting in the way. Who knows if this pilot had been in uniform and didn't say this stuff if could have ended up as another 'Germanwings' suicide disaster.
 
kaitakfan
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:15 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

Check in? At an outstation? It's called showing up for work. Paperwork is in the airplane and as was said, I've never once seen a crew call a dispatcher without there being some sort of issue.


Unless you're doing international or a Hawaii-mainland leg then that is correct, no paper work pick up in ops or dispatcher call required for domestic trips at UAL.

All she needed to do was show her ID that matched the crew list, give some BS story her uniform was inop and the gate agent likely wouldn't ask any further questions. All in all pretty bizarre situation. I do hope she'll receive proper care for whatever psychological issues she has. Lord knows she isn't the last of them out there that need help.
 
texdravid
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:27 pm

SWADawg wrote:
She's probably done. The FAA will probably suspend her medical due to psychological reasons and it will be very difficult and time consuming for her to get it back. If she does manage to get it back, she will still face discipline from UA for her actions. Pilots rightly or wrongly are held to a higher standard than most other jobs and there will be severe ramifications for her actions unfortunately. Hopefully she gets the help she needs, but her career as a professional pilot maybe over.


As it should be. In certain jobs or specialties there are violations that are so egregious or so far out of line that immediate, swift, and harsh penalties are submitted before the end of that day and that individual is immediately terminated.

Being a pilot in charge of hundreds of other people's safety is one of those situations. I hope she's done and hope some union rule doesn't get her back into that seat ever.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
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Blimpie
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:37 pm

kaitakfan wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

Check in? At an outstation? It's called showing up for work. Paperwork is in the airplane and as was said, I've never once seen a crew call a dispatcher without there being some sort of issue.


All she needed to do was show her ID that matched the crew list, give some BS story her uniform was inop and the gate agent likely wouldn't ask any further questions. All in all pretty bizarre situation. I do hope she'll receive proper care for whatever psychological issues she has. Lord knows she isn't the last of them out there that need help.


I think if someone flashed an ID to me if I were a gate agent dressed in flip flops and a ball cap claiming to be the pilot, I likely wouldn't care if that badge was real or not; I'd be on a phone with somebody real fast.

Unrelated note, many years ago, I was an admin for a scooter forum, and we had a relatively new member who was a pilot for USAir. She was always well mannered and professional on the board so two of my super moderators jumped rank and made her a mod despite my disapproval because she had only been a registered member for a couple months. About two months in she had a breakdown and went in to a full rant not a hell of a lot different than what was in the OP here. Only time in years of moderating and administering a forum I ever banned a mod.

I really had hoped in the case of the OP and the linked articles that she was just a whack job and honestly not a commercial UA pilot.
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Sancho99504
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:40 pm

Wow! I'm appalled by some of these replies! I'm not shocked, but appalled. It is comments like these and many others that cause people with something going on to remain quiet for fear of retaliation by some very judgemental individuals. And you wonder why people snap and show up to work and kill co-workers or drove down a sidewalk and run people over. Or show up to God knows where with the intent to harm people because they snapped. She definitely shouldn't be fired. However, barring any setbacks, I think she should be demoted to the right seat whenever she is mentally cleared to fly again.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
Varsity1
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:09 pm

She's done. 1st class medical is bye bye.
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clrd4t8koff
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:18 pm

bigb wrote:
I think it is far from help. The Union will get her the help she needs and once she is good to go, she will be back in the air.


That's terrifying. So all she'll get is a slap on the wrist, a couple of counseling sessions and then she's back in the Captain's seat flying 100+ souls 30k+ feet in the air? She needs to be fired and never allowed to fly again.
 
CATIIIevery5yrs
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:21 pm

SWADawg wrote:
She's probably done. The FAA will probably suspend her medical due to psychological reasons and it will be very difficult and time consuming for her to get it back. If she does manage to get it back, she will still face discipline from UA for her actions. Pilots rightly or wrongly are held to a higher standard than most other jobs and there will be severe ramifications for her actions unfortunately. Hopefully she gets the help she needs, but her career as a professional pilot maybe over.



I don't think you understand how the profession works these days. They'll get a formal explanation from the pilot and most likely the pilot won't miss their next trip. The FAA won't get involved at all. It's a company thing not federal. Through industry cultural changes there's a lot more willingness and mandate to find out what went wrong for any given event, fix it, and learn from it.
 
Caspian27
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:34 pm

Pilots are not superhuman emotionless robots. They have the same highs and lows, ups and downs, excitements and fears as every one of you. When people let emotions take over they will make poor decisions. Did the OPs coworker get fired for his actions? No? Then why does every little thing a pilot does warrant a sacking?

Was the aircraft put in an undesired state? No. Was anything damaged? No. Was anyone hurt? No. Sounds like the system worked, the pilot will get some counseling on how to deal with work/life balance and stress; which is what is needed. Not her job.
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peterinlisbon
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:34 pm

To me, it sounds like either she took drugs or she has serious mental problems. Either way, I think she should be fired for her unprofessional behaviour and I wouldn't feel comfortable with her flying me anywhere on any airline.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:36 pm

Caspian27 wrote:
Pilots are not superhuman emotionless robots. They have the same highs and lows, ups and downs, excitements and fears as every one of you. When people let emotions take over they will make poor decisions. Did the OPs coworker get fired for his actions? No? Then why does every little thing a pilot does warrant a sacking?

Was the aircraft put in an undesired state? No. Was anything damaged? No. Was anyone hurt? No. Sounds like the system worked, the pilot will get some counseling on how to deal with work/life balance and stress; which is what is needed. Not her job.


No, but she turned up to work in a mental state that could have led to 200 million+ $ in damage and hundreds of people killed.
 
gzm
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:40 pm

Quoting Sancho99504 Reply#16
I think she should be demoted to the right seat whenever she is mentally cleared to fly again

That is exactly what I was thinking.I also agree with CATIIIevery5yrs. Besides,she never went into the cockpit.The lady took it very hard and got drunk, she is not mentally unstable. I also do not like those passengers who accuse an airline by name.(Fix it or you are losing me). Some day all this will be an American (or United) aeroflot...
 
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enilria
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:41 pm

Uniformless is like pantsless? ;)

This wasn't mainline was it?
 
coolian2
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:58 pm

The a.net understanding, or lack thereof, about mental issues out in force again
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bennett123
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:02 pm

With the best will in the world, which airline will take a chance of this happening again at 30K.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:29 pm

It does seem to me that the incident has brought up 2 clear camps, give her a second chance and never again.
And from site posters with over 10 yrs experience.
I understand the pros and cons, and I stand with one leg in the "second chance" camp.
If humanity gives up on its self at the first failing I doubt we would have achived the goals we have with the benefits to mankind.
Give the person help and encouragement as you would your own child.
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bennett123
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:39 pm

My question is how confident can you be it will not recur.

Not a question I am qualified to answer.
 
NoTime
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:48 pm

texdravid wrote:
SWADawg wrote:
She's probably done. The FAA will probably suspend her medical due to psychological reasons and it will be very difficult and time consuming for her to get it back. If she does manage to get it back, she will still face discipline from UA for her actions. Pilots rightly or wrongly are held to a higher standard than most other jobs and there will be severe ramifications for her actions unfortunately. Hopefully she gets the help she needs, but her career as a professional pilot maybe over.


As it should be. In certain jobs or specialties there are violations that are so egregious or so far out of line that immediate, swift, and harsh penalties are submitted before the end of that day and that individual is immediately terminated.

Being a pilot in charge of hundreds of other people's safety is one of those situations. I hope she's done and hope some union rule doesn't get her back into that seat ever.


Agree 100%.
 
traindoc
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:51 pm

This lady will indeed be grounded while undergoing mental health evaluation. That would happen even if there were no social media involved. The copilot would not have flown with her due to her condition, and would have called the chief pilots office.

My oldest daughter is a commercial pilot, and several years ago encountered a similar situation, while flying for one of the big three. Her pilot was talking suicide and problems with a pending divorce. She got off the plane and called flight operations. The flight was delayed, and the pilot in question was removed from the aircraft. The pilot underwent counselling and therapy, and was grounded for 11 months. I do not know if this person ever returned to flying.
 
IADCA
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:59 pm

wjcandee wrote:
She was obviously disconnected from reality. I did have a co-worker summer associate attorney get grease on his shirt while changing a flat on the way to work and, buff guy that he was, show up at the office wearing his suit but no shirt and tie. He actually thought this was the right solution -- don't be late for work but show up with no shirt -- but was just immature not crazy. He was there a couple of hours before a more senior attorney told him to go home and get a shirt. The lack of judgment he displayed in that one incident followed him for the rest of the summer. So this is at least that, but probably much more.


Not to make light of the main incident, but the one about the summer associate is pretty funny. He would have been much better off just (a) going home and changing like a reasonable person or (b) if he absolutely had to be there, showing up in the stained shirt and either borrowing an extra from someone else (most male law firm associates I know have an extra full suit, including shirt, in their offices) or hiding in his office until lunch and going out to get a new shirt then. Either one is vastly preferable to his solution, which is very amusing.

I feel bad for the captain here - things have obviously gotten very bad when you're so out of it psychologically that this happens instead of just calling in sick. I would have hoped that the FO had the sense to lock the door to keep her away from the controls until the situation was resolved, for everyone's good, but it doesn't look like that was the case.
 
davescj
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:00 pm

Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
Flaps
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:04 pm

coolian2 wrote:
The a.net understanding, or lack thereof, about mental issues out in force again


To add, the general a.net lack of understanding about how airline operations actually work in the real world is out in force again as well.
 
spacecadet
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:08 pm

coolian2 wrote:
The a.net understanding, or lack thereof, about mental issues out in force again


It takes a certain amount of age and life experience to begin to understand mental issues. All humans have the capacity for something like this, whatever their job. There's no on/off switch for the part of the brain that feels emotions, and you probably wouldn't want there to be because that's the same part of the brain that keeps pilots from crashing their plane into a warehouse because they're bored.

All a person needs to trigger a breakdown like this is a particularly devastating event, or a series of such events. For most people, the emotional upheaval they go through is temporary. But many need help to get through it, and it's neither unusual nor is it grounds for dismissal from *any* job. Also, at times like this, it's actually a legal requirement under the ADA for employers to be *more* understanding and accommodating, not less. And the reason for that is because the writers of that law understood that any human being can go through something like this, and no one should be persecuted for it.

Probably about 90% of all the people you meet over the age of 40 have had some kind of mental or emotional breakdown at some time in their lives. And those people are flying planes, driving trains and buses, operating construction equipment, running various parts of government, performing medical and surgical procedures, etc. You simply cannot expect anyone in any profession - be it a pilot or anything else - to be anything less than human.
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BravoOne
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:15 pm

She will be back and you can count on it, assuming she wants back in the first place. Maybe she doesn't want back after a year or so? I've seen lots worse and they got back.
 
bennett123
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:40 pm

Having never had a mental/emotional breakdown, I must be pretty exceptional.
 
Maverick623
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:53 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
However, barring any setbacks, I think she should be demoted to the right seat whenever she is mentally cleared to fly again.


That's not how it works at all. F/Os are held to the same training and ability standards as Captains. If she's not fit for duty as a Captain, she's not fit as an F/O.

You do realize the "right seat" flies the plane about half the time, right?

Depending on the exact circumstances, she may never return to the cockpit. But that's up to doctors, the FAA, and United.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
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Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:58 pm

traindoc wrote:
The pilot underwent counselling and therapy, and was grounded for 11 months. I do not know if this person ever returned to flying.


If you know the pilot was grounded for only 11 months, why wouldn't you know what happened afterwards? Seems to me the pilot was NOT grounded after 11 months. Maybe I'm missing something here.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
bennett123
Posts: 9110
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:00 pm

Perhaps traindoc left the company.
 
MartijnNL
Posts: 835
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:44 am

Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:02 pm

texdravid wrote:
I hope she's done and hope some union rule doesn't get her back into that seat ever.

Why do you hope she's done? Don't you think she needs help?
 
User avatar
BobPatterson
Posts: 3416
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:18 am

Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:06 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Having never had a mental/emotional breakdown, I must be pretty exceptional.


Welcome to our smallish club :-)

Do you think it is possible that we just don't realize that we endured a breakdown?

I once experienced a TIA or Transient (Temporary) Ischemic Attack). It's like saying I had a stroke but didn't have a stroke. I like to think I had the stroke but cured myself :-)
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
cat3appr50
Posts: 171
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:44 pm

Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:08 pm

The sterility of the cockpit works both ways, including from the cockpit towards the outside (cabin) as well. The flight crew in the cockpit (and the flight attendants in the cabin regarding their responsibilities) are to be focused only on flying the aircraft technically correctly and safely and to procedures and in the most professional manner to get the paying passengers in the cabin from the departure location to the arrival location. There is no part of their job and job description allowing them to leave the cockpit responsibilities and aggressively or otherwise assert their personal and political opinions and convictions outside the cockpit area in the cabin area, and beyond comprehension taunting paying passengers who would (should) oppose (her) the rants. Period. The flight crew and cabin crew’s political and personal convictions and personal issues, race, gender, etc. and public assertions regarding same are not to be allowed while on duty. The cockpit crew’s responsibility is to fly the aircraft professionally and FA’s to attend to the paying passengers and assure regulations are adhered to.

This UAL Captains reported actions (including showing up for duty in work clothes) are fully inappropriate, reckless, and a dereliction of duty and professional responsibility. Such emotional instability can eventually metastasize into dangerous technical inattention and instability and professional irresponsibility and recklessness. IMO it would be atrocious for UAL to look the other way and downplay this serious incident and not take the required aggressive action to remove this Captain from flight duties and from this airline. If UAL doesn’t act aggressively in this matter it will likely result in a less than desirable perception of the overall organization with the general (flying) public.

If I were the upper level operations manager of this organization, the sun would not set before this inappropriate action was severely dealt with and resulting in the immediate termination of this Captain regardless of flight hours, experience, gender, etc. and potentially any other member of the flight crew or cabin crew who may have looked the other way and not notified the proper authorities when this incident was occurring. They owed that to the (innocent) paying passengers they were hired to serve.
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 659
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:12 pm

Maverick623 wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
However, barring any setbacks, I think she should be demoted to the right seat whenever she is mentally cleared to fly again.


That's not how it works at all. F/Os are held to the same training and ability standards as Captains. If she's not fit for duty as a Captain, she's not fit as an F/O.

You do realize the "right seat" flies the plane about half the time, right?

Depending on the exact circumstances, she may never return to the cockpit. But that's up to doctors, the FAA, and United.


No, I'm a complete moron when it comes to this industry and flying an aircraft in general. Not only have I held my PPL for 25 years, worked the industry for 20 years below and above wing, I spent 20 years in the Marine Corps, both active and reserve. And maybe, just maybe, I might know a thing or two about mental illness. If she's cleared to fly again, then she's fit for right or left seat. Too eliminate the added stress of the left seat, a demotion to the right seat is a smart move.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
ewr757
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2000 8:47 am

Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:28 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
Maverick623 wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
However, barring any setbacks, I think she should be demoted to the right seat whenever she is mentally cleared to fly again.


That's not how it works at all. F/Os are held to the same training and ability standards as Captains. If she's not fit for duty as a Captain, she's not fit as an F/O.

You do realize the "right seat" flies the plane about half the time, right?

Depending on the exact circumstances, she may never return to the cockpit. But that's up to doctors, the FAA, and United.


No, I'm a complete moron when it comes to this industry and flying an aircraft in general. Not only have I held my PPL for 25 years, worked the industry for 20 years below and above wing, I spent 20 years in the Marine Corps, both active and reserve. And maybe, just maybe, I might know a thing or two about mental illness. If she's cleared to fly again, then she's fit for right or left seat. Too eliminate the added stress of the left seat, a demotion to the right seat is a smart move.


Oh well there you have it......ppl for 25 years. Listen, you're so far out of touch with airline/union/pilot policies you sound comical.
 
ewr757
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2000 8:47 am

Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:34 pm

cat3appr50 wrote:
The sterility of the cockpit works both ways, including from the cockpit towards the outside (cabin) as well. The flight crew in the cockpit (and the flight attendants in the cabin regarding their responsibilities) are to be focused only on flying the aircraft technically correctly and safely and to procedures and in the most professional manner to get the paying passengers in the cabin from the departure location to the arrival location. There is no part of their job and job description allowing them to leave the cockpit responsibilities and aggressively or otherwise assert their personal and political opinions and convictions outside the cockpit area in the cabin area, and beyond comprehension taunting paying passengers who would (should) oppose (her) the rants. Period. The flight crew and cabin crew’s political and personal convictions and personal issues, race, gender, etc. and public assertions regarding same are not to be allowed while on duty. The cockpit crew’s responsibility is to fly the aircraft professionally and FA’s to attend to the paying passengers and assure regulations are adhered to.

This UAL Captains reported actions (including showing up for duty in work clothes) are fully inappropriate, reckless, and a dereliction of duty and professional responsibility. Such emotional instability can eventually metastasize into dangerous technical inattention and instability and professional irresponsibility and recklessness. IMO it would be atrocious for UAL to look the other way and downplay this serious incident and not take the required aggressive action to remove this Captain from flight duties and from this airline. If UAL doesn’t act aggressively in this matter it will likely result in a less than desirable perception of the overall organization with the general (flying) public.

If I were the upper level operations manager of this organization, the sun would not set before this inappropriate action was severely dealt with and resulting in the immediate termination of this Captain regardless of flight hours, experience, gender, etc. and potentially any other member of the flight crew or cabin crew who may have looked the other way and not notified the proper authorities when this incident was occurring. They owed that to the (innocent) paying passengers they were hired to serve.


This is almost what will happen and very well said. However few terminatons are immediate but groundings are ( union protocol) My guess she will end up on disability and will never see a UAL flight deck again. There is zero chance of her flying again in my opinion despite all the feel good wishes about her emotional health. I going to guess United will never risk the liability.
Last edited by ewr757 on Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 14997
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:35 pm

ltbewr wrote:
It seems this alleged pilot was either under the influence of drugs or had a mental health breakdown. One has to wonder if there had been signs before of this person's mental health, but too many afraid to say something and health privacy laws getting in the way. Who knows if this pilot had been in uniform and didn't say this stuff if could have ended up as another 'Germanwings' suicide disaster.

Sadly it seems that her divorce is sending her over the edge, but if she is unstable as it seems, it's probably why she's getting divorced in the first place.

But we don't know why. I had an art teacher who this happened to. Turns out she was misdiagnosed with a mental disorder and treated for it, which cause her to have episodes, when her actual problem wasTMJ (this was before TMJ was a widely diagnosed thing). She lost her job, her husband, etc. I only found out a decade later when doing legal research at my first job, and found her malpractice case and multi million dollar award. It was one of the very few cases at the time that wasn't reduced on appeal or by the judge at the time of the jury award.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
sixtyseven
Posts: 807
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:51 pm

If anyone thinks she'll be flying her next trip you're nuts, pardon the pun.

This is what will happen. She will be held out of service pending an investigation. The company will have a meeting with her. The company will get her a medical. The company docs will likely get her referred to a shrink as they won't want to sign her off back to service on their own. It will all be an exercise in corporate liability

To say her career is over is a stretch. It may indeed be but they will get her help, she will be paid.

I would say she would be off work at least a month.
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
traindoc
Posts: 351
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:35 am

Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:52 pm

To BobPatterson,

My daughter left her airline and went to NetJets. That is why I don't know the resolution of the story.
 
SWADawg
Posts: 543
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:43 pm

Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:55 pm

CATIIIevery5yrs wrote:
SWADawg wrote:
She's probably done. The FAA will probably suspend her medical due to psychological reasons and it will be very difficult and time consuming for her to get it back. If she does manage to get it back, she will still face discipline from UA for her actions. Pilots rightly or wrongly are held to a higher standard than most other jobs and there will be severe ramifications for her actions unfortunately. Hopefully she gets the help she needs, but her career as a professional pilot maybe over.



I don't think you understand how the profession works these days. They'll get a formal explanation from the pilot and most likely the pilot won't miss their next trip. The FAA won't get involved at all. It's a company thing not federal. Through industry cultural changes there's a lot more willingness and mandate to find out what went wrong for any given event, fix it, and learn from it.


Yeah, I'm a Commercial Airline Pilot, so I think I do understand how the profession works these days since I've been in it for close to 20 years. I take no pleasure in seeing a fellow pilot in a situation like this, but the fact is the FAA takes these types of events very seriously. They can and most likely will suspend her medical which she must possess in order to fly as a pilot for United Airlines. There is nothing that comes into play with the ADA, or any other entity that can change that outcome. Pilots have different sets of rules that they must adhere to in order to exercise their privileges as a professional pilot, and while I don't always agree with the FAA's sometimes zero tolerance policies especially when it comes to areas of psychological issues, those are the rules that I and every commercial pilot must operate under. ALPA does have programs in place to help pilots that may be struggling with drugs, alcohol abuse, divorce, death of a loved one, you name it. But the caveat is that the pilot has to voluntarily come forward and ask for help before there is an incident like this and not after. I do hope this pilot gets the help she needs, but I'm under absolutely no illusion that she will be allowed back in the air anytime soon.
Last edited by SWADawg on Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
rnav2dlrey
Posts: 363
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:10 am

Re: Uniformless UA Pilot Removed From Flight After Bizarre Rant

Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:57 pm

the hogan assessment proves its effectiveness once again....

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