IAG orders Long Range A321Neo's for Aer Lingus

k900 · Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:52 pm

Bloomberg reports IAG has ordered Long Range A321Neo's for Aer Lingus.....

How many units? 4 current B757's. Will they go big and really take on Norwegian?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... aer-lingus

KarelXWB · Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:58 pm

This must be the least surprising order of the year. Nevertheless, it shows airlines believe it can replace the 757.

How many units?

The article says 7 aircraft.

EddieDude · Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:01 pm

Seven. The article mentions that in the first paragraph.

chiad · Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:01 pm

k900 wrote:
How many units? 4 current B757's. Will they go big and really take on Norwegian?

From the report.
Quote: IAG SA has sealed a deal to take seven long-range variants of Airbus Group SE’s A321neo single-aisle jetliner for Irish arm Aer Lingus

k900 · Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:06 pm

My apologies. I know the RFP was for 7 and the article says seven also, I should have phrased my question differently. In light of the imminent Norwegian service I wander if they'll look at topping up their inital order of seven. Replace the current B757's, expand in the NE US and really compete with Norwegian head-on. Is 7 enough?

seabosdca · Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:16 pm

I can't think of any airline more perfectly suited to the A321LR.

VS11 · Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:18 pm

IAG is doing a good job putting up a fight against Norwegian. I personally cannot wait for the A321LR to start service! I know it is only a derivative plane but I think it is very promising. With the stronger dollar and cheaper pound, US-originating TATL air travel can see some serious growth.

slcdeltarumd11 · Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:19 pm

I mean they are in a good location to make a WOW style connection hub with narrowbody across the atlantic. I see them actually doing pretty well. Its the legacy carriers that are gonna feel the pain of the ULCC and LCC across the Atlantic boom.

MrHMSH · Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:37 pm

Are these new orders or a conversion from an existing IAG order?

hispanola · Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:44 pm

This is fantastic, though expected. If indeed all 7 will go to EI there will most likely be an expansion to East Coast USA and CAN. I can't wait to see this development.

Revelation · Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:45 pm

seabosdca wrote:
I can't think of any airline more perfectly suited to the A321LR.

MrHMSH wrote:
Are these new orders or a conversion from an existing IAG order?

Article says:

The company is likely to take the jets via a lease deal involving a new order from a third party, one of the people said.

ClassicLover · Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:47 pm

hispanola wrote:
This is fantastic, though expected. If indeed all 7 will go to EI there will most likely be an expansion to East Coast USA and CAN. I can't wait to see this development.

It should be, because I think the 757s are on lease through to 2020 aren't they?

incitatus · Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:55 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
This must be the least surprising order of the year. Nevertheless, it shows airlines believe it can replace the 757.
(...)

It shows it can replace 757s to some extent. United showed the 757 will be borderline suitable for 3950 mi TXLEWR transatlantic. If the 321LR has exactly the same capability, Aer Lingus can have an amazing network covering all of North America east of a line that links STL with ATL - almost half of the US/Canada population.

Aer Lingus can make it useful with less range. At 500 mi less range, it can reach anything east of the line linking Cleveland and Richmond.

JannEejit · Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:58 pm

Can't wait to see those great big green shamrock sharklets, gonna be one smart looking airliner ! I wonder if this will have any effect on the 'will they, won't they' A350 ambitions ? Are Lingus more likely to be pitched as a narrow body trans-atlantic hauler to the US East Coast, much like United and their UK regional ops with 757's.

TWA772LR · Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:19 pm

Looks like IAG is shaping up EI to become their foray into the secondary markets of the NE USA. Places like PIT, ALB, YUL, St. Johns, and other Eastern Canada routes I can see EI fitting in nicely with the A321LR. It also gives EI the ability to hit all of the Mediterranean, most of the Middle East, and even down to LOS. Could we see non-TATL expansion for EI also? Would this be IAGs answer to Norwegian, FI, and WOW?

JerseyFlyer · Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:46 am

IAG will feed UK and EU traffic to secondary US cities via DUB, which would otherwise transit a US hub. Reduces UK passenger tax too. Clever.

sagechan · Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:50 am

TATL legs generally means 1 frame per route round trip each day. So roughly 7 daily or a few more if non-daily if they are used exclusively to fly across the pond. Where do they currently fly the 757?

aemoreira1981 · Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:56 am

I would imagine that some might be out of SNN as well. Might IAG also consider SNN as a transiting center?

WaywardMemphian · Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:39 am

JerseyFlyer wrote:
IAG will feed UK and EU traffic to secondary US cities via DUB, which would otherwise transit a US hub. Reduces UK passenger tax too. Clever.

Norwegian and IAG may compete on obvious routes like Boston but will have to venture past the Appalachian Range to find new pots o' gold.

TWA772LR · Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:51 am

WaywardMemphian wrote:
JerseyFlyer wrote:
IAG will feed UK and EU traffic to secondary US cities via DUB, which would otherwise transit a US hub. Reduces UK passenger tax too. Clever.

Norwegian and IAG may compete on obvious routes like Boston but will have to venture past the Appalachian Range to find new pots o' gold.

The A321LR won't make it past the Appalachians, unfortunately. But could the 757 from SNN/DUB make it to, say, STL, MEM, BNA, CMH?

oldannyboy · Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:51 am

Nevertheless, it shows airlines believe it can replace the 757.

Karel, are you kidding us, or simply looking for trouble??.. we all KNOW the 757 cannot be replaced. :laughing:

oldannyboy · Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:59 am

It also gives EI the ability to hit all of the Mediterranean, most of the Middle East, and even down to LOS. Could we see non-TATL expansion for EI also? Would this be IAGs answer to Norwegian, FI, and WOW?

[/quote]
Except the Med is already served where it matters for EI (Iberian Peninsula, that is), and I don't think they need to serve the Middle-East or expand towards Africa... TATL to mostly the eastern seaboard is what matters for EI and IAG at the moment.

rutankrd · Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:37 am

JerseyFlyer wrote:
IAG will feed UK and EU traffic to secondary US cities via DUB, which would otherwise transit a US hub. Reduces UK passenger tax too. Clever.

This will feed UK and EU secondary cities via Dublin is not proven in deed or action.
Aer Lingus Regional have recently scaled back the available UK connection opportunities from LPL,DVT and CWL rather than increase them !

Aer Lingus departures from Manchester allow for just one A320 morning flight to connect with the main TALC departure bank.(That morning flight has connected to the JFK/BOS flights since the 1950s !)

Much/most UK-Dublin traffic remains heavily point to point - Evidence the amount of Ryanair flights !

The Irish gentleman in charge at IAG has said that AA doesn't get EI and its telling they still aren't back in Oneworld.

And finally the last one there are NO tax advantages for a passenger departing from the UK regions via Dublin/Shannon to the USA on a single docket and connecting within 24 hours. UK ADP remains fully payable and at the same rate as a none stop or via Heathrow.

IMHO my reading is that the EI strategy is for the carrier to record a PROFIT to IAG as per the rest of the group ,however its not a complementary operation to BA/IB.

This is perhaps the biggest miss reading how a holding company works particularly in the EU/UK.

The IAG business groups are separate businesses not a US style merger.

VSMUT · Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:37 am

Will these be operated by Aer Lingus or ASL?

TWA772LR wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
JerseyFlyer wrote:
IAG will feed UK and EU traffic to secondary US cities via DUB, which would otherwise transit a US hub. Reduces UK passenger tax too. Clever.

Norwegian and IAG may compete on obvious routes like Boston but will have to venture past the Appalachian Range to find new pots o' gold.

The A321LR won't make it past the Appalachians, unfortunately. But could the 757 from SNN/DUB make it to, say, STL, MEM, BNA, CMH?

The A321LR will have more range than the 757, so if the A321 can't do it then neither can the 757.

BHXLOVER · Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:34 am

Whilst I agree that a lot of UK- Dublin traffic is point to point, there is definately traffic which feeds departures to the USA. My sister in law took this route to JFK only 2 weeks ago. I myself have arrived in DUB on the early morning EI flight from BHX and seen passengers from the flight heading for the US pre-clearance area.

Especially from the regions, there will always be those who would rather go via DUB than travel to LHR. The pre-clearance is also a extra benefit.

EI has recently received new A330's and we have already discussed that Willie Walsh has said that the A380 can fit in at EI, so IAG can obviously see potential.

rutankrd · Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:10 pm

BHXLOVER wrote:
Whilst I agree that a lot of UK- Dublin traffic is point to point, there is definately traffic which feeds departures to the USA. My sister in law took this route to JFK only 2 weeks ago. I myself have arrived in DUB on the early morning EI flight from BHX and seen passengers from the flight heading for the US pre-clearance area.

Especially from the regions, there will always be those who would rather go via DUB than travel to LHR. The pre-clearance is also a extra benefit.

EI has recently received new A330's and we have already discussed that Willie Walsh has said that the A380 can fit in at EI, so IAG can obviously see potential.

Again thats antidotal at best.

However do accept that pre-clearance has some value for those that know of its existence. Many more will simply have bought via Dublin on price via the consolidators (None the worse for that).

The question for me remains whether the BA/AA JV should relinquish any markets to EI to relieve LHR. I think they shouldn't its not in their own interests and bottom lines or in the general interests of the consumer taking out a competitor beyond the Dublin-US O and D point to point traffic (Where EI/AA have limited codesharing)

IAG will have set EI commercial targets and yet some of the strategic decisions will still need to be made in Dublin.

I believe this is what Willy is referring to when he said AA don't get EI -ie that it remains very much a standalone business and is not simply an adjunct and complementary to BA.

Clydenairways · Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:27 pm

Will TAP get their LR's first? Just wondering if EI will be the first to fly them across the Atlantic, like they pioneered with the A330.

LX138 · Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:56 pm

Seems like a good choice to replace the 757's. They definitely wont be using them from a feed perspective though. I'd say the yields on DUB-xxx US cities are probably fairly low as it is and feeding people through DUB can potentially see that yield dive lower. Yes people do connect via DUB but EI haven't pushed it that much. Their strongest offering would be US connections which I doubt BA would want any traffic taken away from them.

Oneworld re-entry was meant to happen ages ago but hasn't. It seems alliance activity from any of the alliances is coming to an end.

shamrock604 · Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:11 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I mean they are in a good location to make a WOW style connection hub with narrowbody across the atlantic. I see them actually doing pretty well. Its the legacy carriers that are gonna feel the pain of the ULCC and LCC across the Atlantic boom.

They already are! 11 destinations in North America now.

rutankrd wrote:
BHXLOVER wrote:
Whilst I agree that a lot of UK- Dublin traffic is point to point, there is definately traffic which feeds departures to the USA. My sister in law took this route to JFK only 2 weeks ago. I myself have arrived in DUB on the early morning EI flight from BHX and seen passengers from the flight heading for the US pre-clearance area.

Especially from the regions, there will always be those who would rather go via DUB than travel to LHR. The pre-clearance is also a extra benefit.

EI has recently received new A330's and we have already discussed that Willie Walsh has said that the A380 can fit in at EI, so IAG can obviously see potential.

Again thats antidotal at best.

However do accept that pre-clearance has some value for those that know of its existence. Many more will simply have bought via Dublin on price via the consolidators (None the worse for that).

The question for me remains whether the BA/AA JV should relinquish any markets to EI to relieve LHR. I think they shouldn't its not in their own interests and bottom lines or in the general interests of the consumer taking out a competitor beyond the Dublin-US O and D point to point traffic (Where EI/AA have limited codesharing)

IAG will have set EI commercial targets and yet some of the strategic decisions will still need to be made in Dublin.

I believe this is what Willy is referring to when he said AA don't get EI -ie that it remains very much a standalone business and is not simply an adjunct and complementary to BA.

It isn't anecdotal, the numbers are in the public domain, up to 60% of pax on the EI TATL network are connecting before or beyond the DUB-US flight. Even UA and DL have said they are now picking up connections from UK and rest of Europe.

Have a look at EI and DAA presentations, all are available online, if you want to see the numbers.

Yes, Stobart closed CWL, LPL. CWL because BE are now supplying the feed, LPL because FR are just too dominant in that market, I guess. Stobart is not the only story in terms of feeding EI. BE does too, and there's much more to come elsewhere.

queb · Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:16 pm

there is also some rumors for a CS300 order from IAG

"A new order for Bombardier C Series 300 jets by BA owners IAG to be announced. Deal is said to include jets for BA & Vueling & Aer Lingus"
https://twitter.com/FACFarnborough/stat ... 0008315904

ahj2000 · Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:21 pm

LX138 wrote:
Oneworld re-entry was meant to happen ages ago but hasn't. It seems alliance activity from any of the alliances is coming to an end.

The date has always just been2017 as far as I know. Saying the alliances are dead is a little premature. Give it until at least May before you hop to conclusions. I'd say that they will have something in place in the next couple of months

LXwing · Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:32 pm

Clydenairways wrote:
Will TAP get their LR's first? Just wondering if EI will be the first to fly them across the Atlantic, like they pioneered with the A330.

AFAIK TAP is scheduled to receive the LR from 2019, so it could possibly be the first to fly TATL with them to the north american east coast but also to south america.

BHXLOVER · Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:39 pm

Whilst this might be slightly off topic, it still illustrates the direction of traffic at DUB and the planning IAG an EI will be putting in to future growth. Which will include the A321LR aquisitions.

"Dublin Airport has announced that the number of passengers connecting onward to another destination exceeded one million between January and October 2016, which was an increase of 20% over the same period last year. This is believed to be largely due to the additional capacity on new and existing routes" And this does not include the busy Christmas period.

http://www.passengerterminaltoday.com/v ... wsID=82793

rutankrd · Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:23 pm

shamrock604 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I mean they are in a good location to make a WOW style connection hub with narrowbody across the atlantic. I see them actually doing pretty well. Its the legacy carriers that are gonna feel the pain of the ULCC and LCC across the Atlantic boom.

They already are! 11 destinations in North America now.

rutankrd wrote:
BHXLOVER wrote:
Whilst I agree that a lot of UK- Dublin traffic is point to point, there is definately traffic which feeds departures to the USA. My sister in law took this route to JFK only 2 weeks ago. I myself have arrived in DUB on the early morning EI flight from BHX and seen passengers from the flight heading for the US pre-clearance area.

Especially from the regions, there will always be those who would rather go via DUB than travel to LHR. The pre-clearance is also a extra benefit.

EI has recently received new A330's and we have already discussed that Willie Walsh has said that the A380 can fit in at EI, so IAG can obviously see potential.

Again thats antidotal at best.

However do accept that pre-clearance has some value for those that know of its existence. Many more will simply have bought via Dublin on price via the consolidators (None the worse for that).

The question for me remains whether the BA/AA JV should relinquish any markets to EI to relieve LHR. I think they shouldn't its not in their own interests and bottom lines or in the general interests of the consumer taking out a competitor beyond the Dublin-US O and D point to point traffic (Where EI/AA have limited codesharing)

IAG will have set EI commercial targets and yet some of the strategic decisions will still need to be made in Dublin.

I believe this is what Willy is referring to when he said AA don't get EI -ie that it remains very much a standalone business and is not simply an adjunct and complementary to BA.

It isn't anecdotal, the numbers are in the public domain, up to 60% of pax on the EI TATL network are connecting before or beyond the DUB-US flight. Even UA and DL have said they are now picking up connections from UK and rest of Europe.

Have a look at EI and DAA presentations, all are available online, if you want to see the numbers.

Yes, Stobart closed CWL, LPL. CWL because BE are now supplying the feed, LPL because FR are just too dominant in that market, I guess. Stobart is not the only story in terms of feeding EI. BE does too, and there's much more to come elsewhere.

Statistics are great however I could quote that just 4% of the SLF traffic through Dublin currently connect and that the 60% figure includes those transferring to another flight off of the Dublin flight in the States.

Through I do accept the other renowned Irish gentleman's small business is complicit in acts of Tax evasion on a daily basis and that UA/DL and EI are all beneficiaries in this fraud !

That is why a specifically referenced the single docket comment

shamrock604 · Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:30 pm

rutankrd wrote:
shamrock604 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I mean they are in a good location to make a WOW style connection hub with narrowbody across the atlantic. I see them actually doing pretty well. Its the legacy carriers that are gonna feel the pain of the ULCC and LCC across the Atlantic boom.

They already are! 11 destinations in North America now.

rutankrd wrote:

Again thats antidotal at best.

However do accept that pre-clearance has some value for those that know of its existence. Many more will simply have bought via Dublin on price via the consolidators (None the worse for that).

The question for me remains whether the BA/AA JV should relinquish any markets to EI to relieve LHR. I think they shouldn't its not in their own interests and bottom lines or in the general interests of the consumer taking out a competitor beyond the Dublin-US O and D point to point traffic (Where EI/AA have limited codesharing)

IAG will have set EI commercial targets and yet some of the strategic decisions will still need to be made in Dublin.

I believe this is what Willy is referring to when he said AA don't get EI -ie that it remains very much a standalone business and is not simply an adjunct and complementary to BA.

It isn't anecdotal, the numbers are in the public domain, up to 60% of pax on the EI TATL network are connecting before or beyond the DUB-US flight. Even UA and DL have said they are now picking up connections from UK and rest of Europe.

Have a look at EI and DAA presentations, all are available online, if you want to see the numbers.

Yes, Stobart closed CWL, LPL. CWL because BE are now supplying the feed, LPL because FR are just too dominant in that market, I guess. Stobart is not the only story in terms of feeding EI. BE does too, and there's much more to come elsewhere.

Statistics are great however I could quote that just 4% of the SLF traffic through Dublin currently connect and that the 60% figure includes those transferring to another flight off of the Dublin flight in the States.

Through I do accept the other renowned Irish gentleman's small business is complicit in acts of Tax evasion on a daily basis and that UA/DL and EI are all beneficiaries in this fraud !

That is why a specifically referenced the single docket comment

The overall figures for DUB are completely irrelevant as we are discussing one airline here. Hence, it's their figures are important. You seem to disparage statistics, yet then try to manipulate them yourself!

As I said, the numbers are available online. You'll find them in various EI and IAG presentations that have been made available online. And as I also said clearly, 60% connect before or beyond. I didn't state 60% connect on this side of the Atlantic.

Now, moving to the 'fraud', exactly what are you alleging? State it clearly rather than smearing.

Honestly, it would seem to me that fans of a certain UK airport are a little put out that the Paddies are making a go of things, in some warped notion that we actually compete, despite the fact we're on two separate islands in two separate countries. The only thing we do perhaps compete for is connections - and here's the thing: MAN doesn't own it. Besides, it isn't just a tiny number, as you say? Can't have it both ways.
There's no divine right to it. C'est la vie. Sorry that we have a based carrier here - You tend to get that advantage when you're a capital city.

It's getting a bit convenient to trot out some glib cliche about Tax every time Ireland is successful at something, without ever actually proving it. Empire State of mind, I guess.

shamrock604 · Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:32 pm

shamrock604 wrote:
rutankrd wrote:
shamrock604 wrote:

They already are! 11 destinations in North America now.

It isn't anecdotal, the numbers are in the public domain, up to 60% of pax on the EI TATL network are connecting before or beyond the DUB-US flight. Even UA and DL have said they are now picking up connections from UK and rest of Europe.

Have a look at EI and DAA presentations, all are available online, if you want to see the numbers.

Yes, Stobart closed CWL, LPL. CWL because BE are now supplying the feed, LPL because FR are just too dominant in that market, I guess. Stobart is not the only story in terms of feeding EI. BE does too, and there's much more to come elsewhere.

Statistics are great however I could quote that just 4% of the SLF traffic through Dublin currently connect and that the 60% figure includes those transferring to another flight off of the Dublin flight in the States.

Through I do accept the other renowned Irish gentleman's small business is complicit in acts of Tax evasion on a daily basis and that UA/DL and EI are all beneficiaries in this fraud !

That is why a specifically referenced the single docket comment

The overall figures for DUB are completely irrelevant as we are discussing one airline here. Hence, it's their figures are important. You seem to disparage statistics, yet then try to manipulate them yourself!

As I said, the numbers are available online. You'll find them in various EI and IAG presentations that have been made available online. And as I also said clearly, 60% connect before or beyond. I didn't state 60% connect on this side of the Atlantic.

Now, moving to the 'fraud', exactly what are you alleging? State it clearly rather than smearing.

Honestly, it would seem to me that fans of a certain UK airport are a little put out that the Paddies are making a go of things, in some warped notion that we actually compete, despite the fact we're on two separate islands in two separate countries. The only thing we do perhaps compete for is connections - and here's the thing: MAN doesn't own it. Besides, isnt it just a tiny number, as you say? Or is not? Can't have it both ways.
There's no divine right to it. C'est la vie. Sorry that we have a based carrier here - You tend to get that advantage when you're a capital city.

It's getting a bit convenient to trot out some glib cliche about Tax every time Ireland is successful at something, without ever actually proving it. Empire State of mind, I guess.

rutankrd · Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:28 pm

I not disparaging of Dublin and the excellent Aer Lingus experience or the facts that for fifty years EI201/202 have connected into IN110/111 or EI104/105 today.

As for the Tax issue bluntly there are people in the UK buying tickets to Dublin on one docket or using Ryanair then self connecting to the DL/AA/UA/EI offering on the same day on a differing docket and not paying the requisite UK ADP - This is fraud its not the fault of DAA or EI or even FR and actually just shows how absurd a tax it is, that UK government believe it can imposed on a UK citizen for travel between points outside of the UK

As for competition nothing wrong wth that at all.

Dublin is a capital city of a vibrant nation with not one but two major international resident carriers ,one of which is a significant TALC player that is now a subsidiary of a global holding company , Dublin Airport has seen a huge increase in traffic to just shy of 28,000,000 of which 1,200,000 have connected (4%)

Aer Lingus rightly make a good option for many from the UK regions and a few near EU countries to connect however question is at what yield.

However a-netters particularly on the US side seem to have the idea Aer Lingus somehow is about complementing the BA/AA joint venture when it may not be.

As for your slurs Manchester its an airport of some interest to me but its not my nearest (Thats actually Slough Windsor and Hounslow - just 8 miles down the road) and its more than able to meet its own potential imho - remarkably without a resident network carrier !

Does Dublin steal acquire traffic that might route through Manchester certainly however its probably less than some here might estimate.

The big evil remain my actual local airport and the multitude on non stop high frequency options with very real price dumping at the back of the bus.

skipness1E · Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:48 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I mean they are in a good location to make a WOW style connection hub with narrowbody across the atlantic. I see them actually doing pretty well. Its the legacy carriers that are gonna feel the pain of the ULCC and LCC across the Atlantic boom.

Aer Lingus ARE a legacy carrier dude...

airbazar · Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:05 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
[
The A321LR won't make it past the Appalachians, unfortunately. But could the 757 from SNN/DUB make it to, say, STL, MEM, BNA, CMH?

Should have no problem at all making it to places like Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, all of which are beyond the Appalachians. Even STL and MSP should be in range.

skipness1E wrote:
[
Aer Lingus ARE a legacy carrier dude...

Yeah but EI is hard to place. They are a legacy carrier that once was a full service carrier but are now described are a Low Cost carrier even though they still offer some full service carrier amenities. It's confusing

Cunard · Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:36 pm

airbazar

Aer Lingus was formed as the national carrier for the Republic of Ireland on the 15 August 1936 and are still flying so in that respect the airline is definitely a 'legacy carrier' so I don't know what's confusing about it.

All airlines adapt to changes (British Airways and BOB on short haul) but at the end of the day there is no doubt what so ever that Aer Lingus is a legacy carrier.

If your finding it confusing, I find that strange!

WaywardMemphian · Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:40 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Will these be operated by Aer Lingus or ASL?

TWA772LR wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:

Norwegian and IAG may compete on obvious routes like Boston but will have to venture past the Appalachian Range to find new pots o' gold.

The A321LR won't make it past the Appalachians, unfortunately. But could the 757 from SNN/DUB make it to, say, STL, MEM, BNA, CMH?

The A321LR will have more range than the 757, so if the A321 can't do it then neither can the 757.

This is what i've read as well. MEM to DUB is 3550nm. The latest estimates given by AB on the A321LR range is 4000nm as stated in this AB press release following Norwegian's purchase:

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/press ... ic-routes/

If AB improves the range via after entry into service enhancements, this bird could even do routes to London, Amsterdam, Paris and Madrid(all within, though barely, of 4,000nm) from MEM in the summertime, for example, along with STL, MCI, BNA, and others.

Even Tulsa/OKC could do Dublin if the 4000nm range is true.

superjeff · Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:54 pm

Oneworld re-entry was meant to happen ages ago but hasn't. It seems alliance activity from any of the alliances is coming to an end.[/quote]

Which leads one to the questions: When? Why not?

shamrock350 · Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:15 pm

Cunard wrote:
airbazar

Aer Lingus was formed as the national carrier for the Republic of Ireland on the 15 August 1936 and are still flying so in that respect the airline is definitely a 'legacy carrier' so I don't know what's confusing about it.

All airlines adapt to changes (British Airways and BOB on short haul) but at the end of the day there is no doubt what so ever that Aer Lingus is a legacy carrier.

If your finding it confusing, I find that strange!

That's a bit unfair.

The phrase 'legacy carrier' has been misused somewhat, especially on these forums which has blurred the definition for many. It's often used when describing a more traditional full service carrier which isn't accurate when you consider a number of those airlines have gone through substantial change, Aer Lingus more than most.

Aer Lingus is definitely a legacy carrier in terms of history but it's also one of the few legacies to transform its business completely from full service to near low cost, it didn't just make a few service adaptations, it changed culturally from the very top to the bottom. These days externally it appears somewhere in the middle, a transatlantic product on par or even better than its rivals and a short haul product designed to compete head on with Europe's low cost carriers, internally Aer Lingus is relatively lean for a 'legacy' which is why Willie Walsh recently described it as evidence of long haul, low cost working long before the likes of Norwegian came along.

So yes, Aer Lingus is difficult to category and the misuse of certain phrases can make it even more confusing.

shamrock604 · Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:25 pm

rutankrd wrote:
I not disparaging of Dublin and the excellent Aer Lingus experience or the facts that for fifty years EI201/202 have connected into IN110/111 or EI104/105 today.

As for the Tax issue bluntly there are people in the UK buying tickets to Dublin on one docket or using Ryanair then self connecting to the DL/AA/UA/EI offering on the same day on a differing docket and not paying the requisite UK ADP - This is fraud its not the fault of DAA or EI or even FR and actually just shows how absurd a tax it is, that UK government believe it can imposed on a UK citizen for travel between points outside of the UK

As for competition nothing wrong wth that at all.

Dublin is a capital city of a vibrant nation with not one but two major international resident carriers ,one of which is a significant TALC player that is now a subsidiary of a global holding company , Dublin Airport has seen a huge increase in traffic to just shy of 28,000,000 of which 1,200,000 have connected (4%)

Aer Lingus rightly make a good option for many from the UK regions and a few near EU countries to connect however question is at what yield.

However a-netters particularly on the US side seem to have the idea Aer Lingus somehow is about complementing the BA/AA joint venture when it may not be.

As for your slurs Manchester its an airport of some interest to me but its not my nearest (Thats actually Slough Windsor and Hounslow - just 8 miles down the road) and its more than able to meet its own potential imho - remarkably without a resident network carrier !

Does Dublin steal acquire traffic that might route through Manchester certainly however its probably less than some here might estimate.

The big evil remain my actual local airport and the multitude on non stop high frequency options with very real price dumping at the back of the bus.

LOL! My sincerest apologies that I have confused you with the MAN massive! And I agree, it more than holds its own, without a resident hub carrier, so I can't comprehend the issue a lot of its fans have with DUB. I agree, the raw number of connections isn't (presently) large - but it's growing like crazy and it's making a number of routes viable that wouldn't have been previously. DUB is in its infancy as regards to connections, and with that in mind, the growth is impresssive.

Re the Tax issue, you can't blame anyone here for that. Your government designed the tax, and its loopholes will of course be exploited. And that goes for every other county UK pax may choose to connect through.

airbazar · Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:53 pm

Cunard wrote:
airbazar

Aer Lingus was formed as the national carrier for the Republic of Ireland on the 15 August 1936 and are still flying so in that respect the airline is definitely a 'legacy carrier' so I don't know what's confusing about it.

All airlines adapt to changes (British Airways and BOB on short haul) but at the end of the day there is no doubt what so ever that Aer Lingus is a legacy carrier.

If your finding it confusing, I find that strange!

I'm old enough to remember EI's 747's at Boston. I don't need a history lesson.
My point was that a lot of "younger" people associate the term "legacy carrier" with anything that is not a LCC. And since EI is now a LCC, they get confused. I for one knew exactly what the poster was trying to say, even if the wrong term was used.

WaywardMemphian · Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:06 pm

Let's also keep the IAG rumors of a CS300 purchase in mind. Those have a supposed range of 3300nm. I see Aer Lingus using those for New England Routes along with eastern Canada.

rutankrd · Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:08 pm

airbazar wrote:
Cunard wrote:
airbazar

Aer Lingus was formed as the national carrier for the Republic of Ireland on the 15 August 1936 and are still flying so in that respect the airline is definitely a 'legacy carrier' so I don't know what's confusing about it.

All airlines adapt to changes (British Airways and BOB on short haul) but at the end of the day there is no doubt what so ever that Aer Lingus is a legacy carrier.

If your finding it confusing, I find that strange!

I'm old enough to remember EI's 747's at Boston. I don't need a history lesson.
My point was that a lot of "younger" people associate the term "legacy carrier" with anything that is not a LCC. And since EI is now a LCC, they get confused. I for one knew exactly what the poster was trying to say, even if the wrong term was used.

Utter pedantry - Aer Lingus is most definitely a legacy carrier imho , however its back office is something of a hybrid leading to reduced costs and overhead closer to that of a so called LCC.

Their sparse EU service levels and flexible fares with complex algorithms and yield optimisation especially at the back of the bus, is being replicated right across the board these days.

keesje · Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:52 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
Let's also keep the IAG rumors of a CS300 purchase in mind. Those have a supposed range of 3300nm. I see Aer Lingus using those for New England Routes along with eastern Canada.

I don't. Smaller than 757/A321 and unit costs become unsustainable high, unless niche full C class like products like BA and LH use.

TheLion · Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:04 pm

keesje wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
Let's also keep the IAG rumors of a CS300 purchase in mind. Those have a supposed range of 3300nm. I see Aer Lingus using those for New England Routes along with eastern Canada.

I don't. Smaller than 757/A321 and unit costs become unsustainable high, unless niche full C class like products like BA and LH use.

Actually Norwegian, WestJet and Air Canada might beg to differ there, with their TATLs on B738MAX (soon), B73G and A319 respectively, as would Copa, who fly several long B737 sectors.

Then there's numerous other low cost and leisure airlines in Europe and Asia, plus US/Canadian transcons & Hawaii routes.

In short there are plenty of 6 hour sectors in existence today using ostensibly shorthaul A320 family and B737NG & (soon) MAX aircraft.

n272wa · Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:34 pm

rutankrd wrote:
I not disparaging of Dublin and the excellent Aer Lingus experience or the facts that for fifty years EI201/202 have connected into IN110/111 or EI104/105 today.

As for the Tax issue bluntly there are people in the UK buying tickets to Dublin on one docket or using Ryanair then self connecting to the DL/AA/UA/EI offering on the same day on a differing docket and not paying the requisite UK ADP - This is fraud its not the fault of DAA or EI or even FR and actually just shows how absurd a tax it is, that UK government believe it can imposed on a UK citizen for travel between points outside of the UK

As for competition nothing wrong wth that at all.

Dublin is a capital city of a vibrant nation with not one but two major international resident carriers ,one of which is a significant TALC player that is now a subsidiary of a global holding company , Dublin Airport has seen a huge increase in traffic to just shy of 28,000,000 of which 1,200,000 have connected (4%)

Aer Lingus rightly make a good option for many from the UK regions and a few near EU countries to connect however question is at what yield.

However a-netters particularly on the US side seem to have the idea Aer Lingus somehow is about complementing the BA/AA joint venture when it may not be.

As for your slurs Manchester its an airport of some interest to me but its not my nearest (Thats actually Slough Windsor and Hounslow - just 8 miles down the road) and its more than able to meet its own potential imho - remarkably without a resident network carrier !

Does Dublin steal acquire traffic that might route through Manchester certainly however its probably less than some here might estimate.

The big evil remain my actual local airport and the multitude on non stop high frequency options with very real price dumping at the back of the bus.

There's no EI201.... it's the 203 and 205 which connect from MAN to DUB and onwards to the USA. So, there's not only the 1 connecting flight. The EI203 allows for connections to Los Angeles and Hartford and the afternoon JFK, ORD and BOS.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net