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11725Flyer
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:33 pm

klm617 wrote:

It's interesting how there is no market between two cities and an airline comes in and gives it a try and viola they is suddenly traffic for said route. There doesn't always have to be demand some times their just has to be faith that the product you are providing will attract the business you are trying to attract. I have nothing but gratitude for Frontier for trying something new with their out of the box thinking at DTW when adding new service if only more carriers would take this approach at Detroit this might be a real exciting market. That being said it's been a long time since we've had DTW-ISP service I think the last time was in the late 70s on American


Low fares stimulate traffic. That being said, I've often thought DL should pay more attention to ISP. As a former resident of Suffolk County (where ISP is located), I would take any airline there in a heartbeat to avoid driving into the city for a flight from LGA or JFK.
 
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:12 am

11725Flyer wrote:
klm617 wrote:

It's interesting how there is no market between two cities and an airline comes in and gives it a try and viola they is suddenly traffic for said route. There doesn't always have to be demand some times their just has to be faith that the product you are providing will attract the business you are trying to attract. I have nothing but gratitude for Frontier for trying something new with their out of the box thinking at DTW when adding new service if only more carriers would take this approach at Detroit this might be a real exciting market. That being said it's been a long time since we've had DTW-ISP service I think the last time was in the late 70s on American


Low fares stimulate traffic. That being said, I've often thought DL should pay more attention to ISP. As a former resident of Suffolk County (where ISP is located), I would take any airline there in a heartbeat to avoid driving into the city for a flight from LGA or JFK.



That's exactly why our WCAA needs to land DY, FI or WW for the summer of 2018. Start service with competitive pricing and they will come. Just because there is no market today doesn't mean after one of these carriers add Detroit that there won't be a market after they start flights here.
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2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:11 pm

klm617 wrote:
11725Flyer wrote:
klm617 wrote:

It's interesting how there is no market between two cities and an airline comes in and gives it a try and viola they is suddenly traffic for said route. There doesn't always have to be demand some times their just has to be faith that the product you are providing will attract the business you are trying to attract. I have nothing but gratitude for Frontier for trying something new with their out of the box thinking at DTW when adding new service if only more carriers would take this approach at Detroit this might be a real exciting market. That being said it's been a long time since we've had DTW-ISP service I think the last time was in the late 70s on American


Low fares stimulate traffic. That being said, I've often thought DL should pay more attention to ISP. As a former resident of Suffolk County (where ISP is located), I would take any airline there in a heartbeat to avoid driving into the city for a flight from LGA or JFK.



That's exactly why our WCAA needs to land DY, FI or WW for the summer of 2018. Start service with competitive pricing and they will come. Just because there is no market today doesn't mean after one of these carriers add Detroit that there won't be a market after they start flights here.

But Detroit isn't the most profitable market for them to open,out of the possibilities. They can make a lot more money flying to areas like PDX.
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:07 pm

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
klm617 wrote:
11725Flyer wrote:

Low fares stimulate traffic. That being said, I've often thought DL should pay more attention to ISP. As a former resident of Suffolk County (where ISP is located), I would take any airline there in a heartbeat to avoid driving into the city for a flight from LGA or JFK.



That's exactly why our WCAA needs to land DY, FI or WW for the summer of 2018. Start service with competitive pricing and they will come. Just because there is no market today doesn't mean after one of these carriers add Detroit that there won't be a market after they start flights here.

But Detroit isn't the most profitable market for them to open,out of the possibilities. They can make a lot more money flying to areas like PDX.
I disagree. NK and F9 put up good LF's and continue to expand, NK even said DTW is very profitable which is why they'll continue to expand their hub (which by the way does connect east/west traffic from BOS, LGA, MYR, BWI and PHL to LAS, LAX, OAK, DEN and SEA.) There's different types of travelers in Detroit but the market suggests a lot of passengers are low yielding which is why they travel elsewhere for a low international fare, so I disagree, WW or FI should be on the horizon. If PIT is doing so good on WOW like they suggest in the PIT thread, than think about the effect it could make for DTW pax.
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2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:18 pm

flymco753 wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
klm617 wrote:


That's exactly why our WCAA needs to land DY, FI or WW for the summer of 2018. Start service with competitive pricing and they will come. Just because there is no market today doesn't mean after one of these carriers add Detroit that there won't be a market after they start flights here.

But Detroit isn't the most profitable market for them to open,out of the possibilities. They can make a lot more money flying to areas like PDX.
I disagree. NK and F9 put up good LF's and continue to expand, NK even said DTW is very profitable which is why they'll continue to expand their hub (which by the way does connect east/west traffic from BOS, LGA, MYR, BWI and PHL to LAS, LAX, OAK, DEN and SEA.) There's different types of travelers in Detroit but the market suggests a lot of passengers are low yielding which is why they travel elsewhere for a low international fare, so I disagree, WW or FI should be on the horizon. If PIT is doing so good on WOW like they suggest in the PIT thread, than think about the effect it could make for DTW pax.

You do know PIT is not a fortress hub for Delta, right? NK fits a very steady niche in Detorit (like SY in MSP, but a ULCC), but the niche for FI and WW is already soaked up by Delta and friends.
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:09 pm

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
But Detroit isn't the most profitable market for them to open,out of the possibilities. They can make a lot more money flying to areas like PDX.
I disagree. NK and F9 put up good LF's and continue to expand, NK even said DTW is very profitable which is why they'll continue to expand their hub (which by the way does connect east/west traffic from BOS, LGA, MYR, BWI and PHL to LAS, LAX, OAK, DEN and SEA.) There's different types of travelers in Detroit but the market suggests a lot of passengers are low yielding which is why they travel elsewhere for a low international fare, so I disagree, WW or FI should be on the horizon. If PIT is doing so good on WOW like they suggest in the PIT thread, than think about the effect it could make for DTW pax.

You do know PIT is not a fortress hub for Delta, right? NK fits a very steady niche in Detorit (like SY in MSP, but a ULCC), but the niche for FI and WW is already soaked up by Delta and friends.
They may provide the connections but for the most part the price isn't right, It may be around 1K to go to MAN via AMS on KL but if that fare can be $800 without a back track I'm sure people will buy, that's the big issue with DTW. It's a chance for DTW to lose some bleed.
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:02 pm

Amazon is building a large distribution center near DTW and multiple other distribution centers in the area, do you think eventually Prime Air will fly in?
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:44 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Amazon is building a large distribution center near DTW and multiple other distribution centers in the area, do you think eventually Prime Air will fly in?

I think Amazon will absolutely add DTW-CVG eventually, not sure how long it is going to take though. They have a lot of planes coming into the fleet this fall, so new destinations should be coming. They are still a little constrained with space since they are sharing DHL's hub space, but construction on the new facility should begin soon, allowing for a lot of expansion. I think DTW would be an ideal distribution point to get packages from Michigan driven by truck to DTW, then flown to CVG for sorting.
 
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:18 pm

So I don't know if this is a mistake on Google Flights but it shows NK will fly 6 flights between DTW and MCO but their website still says 4.
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:25 pm

^also says nonstop flights are available to SJU, PHX, SAN, and OAK. Must be an error since these are all the same flight number via other airports as opposed to nonstops.
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:52 pm

flymco753 wrote:
^also says nonstop flights are available to SJU, PHX, SAN, and OAK. Must be an error since these are all the same flight number via other airports as opposed to nonstops.
Theyre mistakes so I'm not sure why theyre showing as nonstop. Its firm that MCO and RSW are going 4x daily. There's extra aircraft rotating through DTW this winter, I just dont know where they can fly the extra A319 next year perhaps BDL.
 
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:57 pm

Does anyone think that F9s winter schedule is kind of rediculous? I mean 4x weekly MIA and RSW are cool and all, but it's daily in October through December and down to 4x in peak season (Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr) and MCO went down to 1x on peak travel as well and has atrocious flight times unless they had 2x daily flights. That's just my opinion.
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:03 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Does anyone think that F9s winter schedule is kind of rediculous? I mean 4x weekly MIA and RSW are cool and all, but it's daily in October through December and down to 4x in peak season (Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr) and MCO went down to 1x on peak travel as well and has atrocious flight times unless they had 2x daily flights. That's just my opinion.
I dont know what goes on in Frontiers head, I just know that MCO for NK was upgauged from an A319 to an A320 in the winter so there's more seats on the route. NK is already 4 daily for RSW, I dont think NK will respond to F9 adding MIA.
 
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:34 pm

GRU has been oversold lately, I'd like to see GRU go back to daily, but if DL drops it (which there's no plans on dropping it) than LATAM would have 0 problems picking it up less than daily because there's plenty of traffic and surprisingly Detroit has a growing Brazilian population, it's not that of Miami or other big cities but it's growing along with business ties.
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:15 pm

flymco753 wrote:
GRU has been oversold lately, I'd like to see GRU go back to daily, but if DL drops it (which there's no plans on dropping it) than LATAM would have 0 problems picking it up less than daily because there's plenty of traffic and surprisingly Detroit has a growing Brazilian population, it's not that of Miami or other big cities but it's growing along with business ties.


I'd be interested to see how many PDEW there are between DTW and South America.... I'd be surprised if a foreign flag carrier really enters the DTW market. And not because the market isn't there, but because of the lack of awareness and aggressive practices of incumbent Delta.

I find it more surprising that not one Asian/ME3/British Airways carrier flies to Detroit despite having the market to support services. DTW definitely has an image problem and the airport needs to address this first. Delta is also very defensive of it's 'turf' and I believe this fact is also a significant factor why so little new entry has occurred in DTW.
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lavalampluva
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:32 pm

flymco753 wrote:
GRU has been oversold lately, I'd like to see GRU go back to daily, but if DL drops it (which there's no plans on dropping it) than LATAM would have 0 problems picking it up less than daily because there's plenty of traffic and surprisingly Detroit has a growing Brazilian population, it's not that of Miami or other big cities but it's growing along with business ties.

DTW-GRU is 3x per week on DL. And loads are modest. So IMO there would be a struggle filling daily flights.
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:34 pm

hjulicher wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
GRU has been oversold lately, I'd like to see GRU go back to daily, but if DL drops it (which there's no plans on dropping it) than LATAM would have 0 problems picking it up less than daily because there's plenty of traffic and surprisingly Detroit has a growing Brazilian population, it's not that of Miami or other big cities but it's growing along with business ties.


I'd be interested to see how many PDEW there are between DTW and South America.... I'd be surprised if a foreign flag carrier really enters the DTW market. And not because the market isn't there, but because of the lack of awareness and aggressive practices of incumbent Delta.

I find it more surprising that not one Asian/ME3/British Airways carrier flies to Detroit despite having the market to support services. DTW definitely has an image problem and the airport needs to address this first. Delta is also very defensive of it's 'turf' and I believe this fact is also a significant factor why so little new entry has occurred in DTW.
I think what DTW needs next is LCC's, I really think WW and Y4 would benefit from the market the most, after all, Y4 generally does off daily service so GDL wouldn't have to be daily, they could probably get away with doing MTY, QRO or BJX. WW is the best option because DY has publicly stated their plans that don't include DTW and FI seems to be wanting other markets at the moment so WW I think makes the most sense.
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:38 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
GRU has been oversold lately, I'd like to see GRU go back to daily, but if DL drops it (which there's no plans on dropping it) than LATAM would have 0 problems picking it up less than daily because there's plenty of traffic and surprisingly Detroit has a growing Brazilian population, it's not that of Miami or other big cities but it's growing along with business ties.

DTW-GRU is 3x per week on DL. And loads are modest. So IMO there would be a struggle filling daily flights.
IIRC, DL used to do daily on the 76W, were loads bad?
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lavalampluva
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:21 pm

flymco753 wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
GRU has been oversold lately, I'd like to see GRU go back to daily, but if DL drops it (which there's no plans on dropping it) than LATAM would have 0 problems picking it up less than daily because there's plenty of traffic and surprisingly Detroit has a growing Brazilian population, it's not that of Miami or other big cities but it's growing along with business ties.

DTW-GRU is 3x per week on DL. And loads are modest. So IMO there would be a struggle filling daily flights.
IIRC, DL used to do daily on the 76W, were loads bad?

They have been flying that route for a while, I think the Brazilian economy tanking a few years ago is the reason that flight frequency dropped. Possibly if the economy of Brazil improves then flights might go back up to daily.
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:53 pm

flymco753 wrote:
hjulicher wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
GRU has been oversold lately, I'd like to see GRU go back to daily, but if DL drops it (which there's no plans on dropping it) than LATAM would have 0 problems picking it up less than daily because there's plenty of traffic and surprisingly Detroit has a growing Brazilian population, it's not that of Miami or other big cities but it's growing along with business ties.


I'd be interested to see how many PDEW there are between DTW and South America.... I'd be surprised if a foreign flag carrier really enters the DTW market. And not because the market isn't there, but because of the lack of awareness and aggressive practices of incumbent Delta.

I find it more surprising that not one Asian/ME3/British Airways carrier flies to Detroit despite having the market to support services. DTW definitely has an image problem and the airport needs to address this first. Delta is also very defensive of it's 'turf' and I believe this fact is also a significant factor why so little new entry has occurred in DTW.
I think what DTW needs next is LCC's, I really think WW and Y4 would benefit from the market the most, after all, Y4 generally does off daily service so GDL wouldn't have to be daily, they could probably get away with doing MTY, QRO or BJX. WW is the best option because DY has publicly stated their plans that don't include DTW and FI seems to be wanting other markets at the moment so WW I think makes the most sense.



I agree 100% but at the risk of being flamed I'll say it again the WCAA is at fault not marketing this airport as aggressively as it should. You can say you can't push to much but at this point what do you have to lose you got nothing anyway so it can't hurt DTW's chances anyway because there is nothing in the pipeline. When the MUC route was added I wonder if they pursued LH and DL with the same intensity or they pleaded their case more to Delta. With out a doubt the WCAA should try to secure DUB and MAN on DL and then market themselves to other carriers for anything else. The last time anything major happened in this market where Detroit beat out any other cities is when AF came to Detroit otherwise any of the service additions have nothing to do with the WCAA as for AS and B6 those were just the next natural adds and just the bare minimum as far as flights go.
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:30 am

AS has grown quite a bit at DTW, next summer AS will be up to 3x daily with 2 SEA flights and 1 PDX flight which is impressing, I do however think SAN will be added eventually so I can see AS up to 4x daily at DTW.

OTOH with B6 you're right, they don't have much at DTW, I think the way they could get better results is, of course more stuff like a twice daily E190 to JFK or another NYC airport and a daily MCO, entering 2 of DTW's largest markets would give them what they'd need to be sucessful, I won't promise DL will react though, especially if B6 does DTW-JFK. The frequency may be 4x daily but DL would probably do all A319 or 717s.
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:49 pm

WN added a Saturday TPA-DTW flight in the latest extension.
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:28 pm

I was driving down Middlebelt Rd on the way to work today and saw what appeared to be an A332 in military gray over at Signature Aviation. Anybody know who it belongs to or what it's doing here?
 
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:41 pm

Looks like 2018 will be another year of little to no growth as DTW continues to be content with sitting on the sidelines while other cities continue to land new flights right and left. With each one of these new added flights in other markets our revenue at this airport takes another hit. As each year goes by with no new flights affordable international travel out of DTW gets further and further away along with it goes the likelihood that this airport will ever land a low coast international airline.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:11 pm

klm617 wrote:
Looks like 2018 will be another year of little to no growth as DTW continues to be content with sitting on the sidelines while other cities continue to land new flights right and left. With each one of these new added flights in other markets our revenue at this airport takes another hit. As each year goes by with no new flights affordable international travel out of DTW gets further and further away along with it goes the likelihood that this airport will ever land a low coast international airline.
Euro ULCC's generally don't announce S18 until end of September to beginning of October, and trust me, with AB's current financial state, does it make sense to try and court them?
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:10 am

johns624 wrote:
I was driving down Middlebelt Rd on the way to work today and saw what appeared to be an A332 in military gray over at Signature Aviation. Anybody know who it belongs to or what it's doing here?
Sorry for quoting myself but I got more information. It appears that klm617 got his wish. A small irregular route operator from the UK is flying to DTW on a unannounced schedule. They fly A330's with lousy seats and service. Their name is "Royal Air Force". :)
 
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:31 pm

DL's new SNA route isn't filling up for some reason, I don't think there was an introductory fare which could be a reason why the plane isn't filling, it's also starting a week after families in the area resume work and school for the winter. The trend seems to be 90 available seats left, but I guess there's a little over a month to see where it goes. The 73W will be sticking it seems like since they have a rotation made up where the plane departs ATL to DTW through CLT.
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:27 pm

flymco753 wrote:
DL's new SNA route isn't filling up for some reason, I don't think there was an introductory fare which could be a reason why the plane isn't filling, it's also starting a week after families in the area resume work and school for the winter. The trend seems to be 90 available seats left, but I guess there's a little over a month to see where it goes. The 73W will be sticking it seems like since they have a rotation made up where the plane departs ATL to DTW through CLT.



Because they are still routing most of the connections over ATL. They need to advise passengers that Detroit is now an option rather than routing everyone over ATL perhaps they need to reduce capacity in the MSP-SNA market to force connections over DTW like they did when they added the extra MSP-AMS capacity they reduced Detroit..
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compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:19 pm

flymco753 wrote:
DL's new SNA route isn't filling up for some reason, I don't think there was an introductory fare which could be a reason why the plane isn't filling, it's also starting a week after families in the area resume work and school for the winter. The trend seems to be 90 available seats left, but I guess there's a little over a month to see where it goes. The 73W will be sticking it seems like since they have a rotation made up where the plane departs ATL to DTW through CLT.


If you're basing your assumptions off of seat maps, then you should take note that ATL & MSP have a similar level of bookings as DTW. This is because the crux of bookings, sans holiday-orientated flights, come within 30 days.

DL is clearly committed to making DTW/SNA work: they've re-timed the MSP & ATL flights so that DTW-SNA is the only morning departure and SNA-DTW is the only early afternoon departure; DL's given DTW the most desirable departure times. Additionally, as you've mentioned, DL's loaded the 73W bridge. Contrast this to the second PDX flight, which was scheduled to inaugurate around the same time as SNA but recently got the boot.
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:47 pm

compensateme wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
DL's new SNA route isn't filling up for some reason, I don't think there was an introductory fare which could be a reason why the plane isn't filling, it's also starting a week after families in the area resume work and school for the winter. The trend seems to be 90 available seats left, but I guess there's a little over a month to see where it goes. The 73W will be sticking it seems like since they have a rotation made up where the plane departs ATL to DTW through CLT.


If you're basing your assumptions off of seat maps, then you should take note that ATL & MSP have a similar level of bookings as DTW. This is because the crux of bookings, sans holiday-orientated flights, come within 30 days.

DL is clearly committed to making DTW/SNA work: they've re-timed the MSP & ATL flights so that DTW-SNA is the only morning departure and SNA-DTW is the only early afternoon departure; DL's given DTW the most desirable departure times. Additionally, as you've mentioned, DL's loaded the 73W bridge. Contrast this to the second PDX flight, which was scheduled to inaugurate around the same time as SNA but recently got the boot.
When I saw seat maps yeah I noticed that but seats available is what I looked at.
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2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:57 pm

klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
DL's new SNA route isn't filling up for some reason, I don't think there was an introductory fare which could be a reason why the plane isn't filling, it's also starting a week after families in the area resume work and school for the winter. The trend seems to be 90 available seats left, but I guess there's a little over a month to see where it goes. The 73W will be sticking it seems like since they have a rotation made up where the plane departs ATL to DTW through CLT.



Because they are still routing most of the connections over ATL. They need to advise passengers that Detroit is now an option rather than routing everyone over ATL perhaps they need to reduce capacity in the MSP-SNA market to force connections over DTW like they did when they added the extra MSP-AMS capacity they reduced Detroit..

Delta forces people to fly through ATL therefore Delta should force people to fly through DTW?
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kavok
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:54 pm

compensateme wrote:

DL is clearly committed to making DTW/SNA work: they've re-timed the MSP & ATL flights so that DTW-SNA is the only morning departure and SNA-DTW is the only early afternoon departure; DL's given DTW the most desirable departure times. Additionally, as you've mentioned, DL's loaded the 73W bridge. Contrast this to the second PDX flight, which was scheduled to inaugurate around the same time as SNA but recently got the boot.


Minor clarification: DL added a second (year round) DTW-PDX flight. Then, it was the original DTW-PDX flight schedule (a red-eye) that actually got the boot, as it is the second flight's schedule that remains.

I mention this for a few reasons:
1) It again (as you mentioned) shows that DL is trying to get better DTW flight times, as a red-eye flight is swapped for a more desirable midday flight. This will also help in the competition with AS, as AS is still running only a red-eye flight on PDX-DTW.

2) It makes me wonder if the original DL flight could be re-added as a second seasonal flight again next summer. Having red-eye flights are good for aircraft utilization after all, so DL wouldn't need much profit margin to make it work.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:06 pm

The new PDX flight on AS is pretty full just looking at the seat maps.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:45 pm

flymco753 wrote:
DL's new SNA route isn't filling up for some reason, I don't think there was an introductory fare which could be a reason why the plane isn't filling, it's also starting a week after families in the area resume work and school for the winter. The trend seems to be 90 available seats left, but I guess there's a little over a month to see where it goes. The 73W will be sticking it seems like since they have a rotation made up where the plane departs ATL to DTW through CLT.

80% of domestic flights are booked less than 5 weeks prior to departure. Business-heavy routes tend to be much closer-in bookings. Leisure routes may be a bit further out.
 
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:47 pm

flymco753 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Looks like 2018 will be another year of little to no growth as DTW continues to be content with sitting on the sidelines while other cities continue to land new flights right and left. With each one of these new added flights in other markets our revenue at this airport takes another hit. As each year goes by with no new flights affordable international travel out of DTW gets further and further away along with it goes the likelihood that this airport will ever land a low coast international airline.
Euro ULCC's generally don't announce S18 until end of September to beginning of October, and trust me, with AB's current financial state, does it make sense to try and court them?

Most of the legacy carriers announce new TATL service in the October-November timeframe.

Way to early to make any sort of judgement about Summer 2018 service or announcements or lack thereof.
 
KarlB737
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:22 pm

klm617 wrote:
I really think that if the city of Detroit got their act together and brought the facilities at DET up to snuff they could successfully sell it to Allegiant.


Will Allegiant's MD80s be able to take off and land on a 5000 ft runway? They weren't overly thrilled with the GYY runway length and it was longer than DET.

What about Frontier as a candidate for DET. At the present time they do utilize 737s which Southwest and ProAir used successfully there. Additionally they seem to be open to just about anywhere and now cover a significant number of destinations. Just a passing thought.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:09 pm

I'd like to point something out, how come the jetways smell bad at DTW? I also noticed the cosmetics of them are bad compared to other airports, carpet is tearing, metal is sticking out of the sides of the walls, rust is the new paint job, I mean honestly if it were me the jetbridges need work.
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compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:12 pm

flymco753 wrote:
I'd like to point something out, how come the jetways smell bad at DTW? I also noticed the cosmetics of them are bad compared to other airports, carpet is tearing, metal is sticking out of the sides of the walls, rust is the new paint job, I mean honestly if it were me the jetbridges need work.


I've never noticed them smelling bad although I agree that they're in poor shape, which is shameful given that they're relatively young (they were brand new when the terminals opened). ATL is just now replacing the remaining former EA jetbridges (37-years-old), ORD T1 still maintains its original, etc. If there's one flaw of the Midfield & North Terminals, it's that cleanliness & cosmetic maintenance has long been lacking.

KarlB737 wrote:
Will Allegiant's MD80s be able to take off and land on a 5000 ft runway? They weren't overly thrilled with the GYY runway length and it was longer than DET.

What about Frontier as a candidate for DET. At the present time they do utilize 737s which Southwest and ProAir used successfully there. Additionally they seem to be open to just about anywhere and now cover a significant number of destinations. Just a passing thought.


Even if DET's runways were suitable for an F9 or G6 operation, the airport itself is in need of new passenger facilities (terminal, parking lot, etc.); coupled with marketing costs, it would make serving DET uneconomical. ProAir and Southwest (whose operation was very much handicap) targeted DET during an era in which DTW lacked room for expansion. Today, that's not the case -- DTW has oodles of capacity and state-of-the-art facilities. Reality is, DET will never see commercial service again.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:18 pm

The jet bridges are about 15 years old on Concourse A at this point, like most of the infrastructure in the McNamera terminal. The B extension and Concourse C are about 10-11 years old at this point.

I can't say I've noticed a smell about them or anything better or worse than jetbridges in any other airport. Considering I spend all about about 30 seconds in a given trip I don't even give it a notice.

I used the I-94 entrance last week for the first time since late-June and wow they have cleared the whole median out on Rogell Drive. I know they are improving the flow of traffic between the split to the McNamera, the North Terminal and Big Blue garage. Also improving the flow to Burton & Lucas Drive. Hopefully also creating a better "front-door" to the airport which has always looked clutter, junky, and generally ugly compared to most major international airports.

Does anyone know what the actual planned roadway layout will look like after the construction this summer? I know there was plans to build a connector from the return out of the North Terminal to the southbound roadway to the McNamera but wasn't sure what they actually included in this summer's project scope.

I'
 
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:50 pm

KarlB737 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I really think that if the city of Detroit got their act together and brought the facilities at DET up to snuff they could successfully sell it to Allegiant.


Will Allegiant's MD80s be able to take off and land on a 5000 ft runway? They weren't overly thrilled with the GYY runway length and it was longer than DET.

What about Frontier as a candidate for DET. At the present time they do utilize 737s which Southwest and ProAir used successfully there. Additionally they seem to be open to just about anywhere and now cover a significant number of destinations. Just a passing thought.



Allegiant's A319 would be perfect for DET
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ikolkyo
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:02 pm

Why would they fix up DET for an airline when you have the North Terminal at DTW that isn't even at full capacity.
 
cvgComair
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:40 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Why would they fix up DET for an airline when you have the North Terminal at DTW that isn't even at full capacity.

Cheaper landing and airport use fees. If it had not been for noise regulations, G4 would have used Lunken instead of CVG, even when CVG had plenty of gate space.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:12 am

cvgComair wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Why would they fix up DET for an airline when you have the North Terminal at DTW that isn't even at full capacity.

Cheaper landing and airport use fees. If it had not been for noise regulations, G4 would have used Lunken instead of CVG, even when CVG had plenty of gate space.


Right now, Detroit has better things to do then reopen DET for commercial ops.
 
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:59 am

ikolkyo wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Why would they fix up DET for an airline when you have the North Terminal at DTW that isn't even at full capacity.

Cheaper landing and airport use fees. If it had not been for noise regulations, G4 would have used Lunken instead of CVG, even when CVG had plenty of gate space.


Right now, Detroit has better things to do then reopen DET for commercial ops.


Says who ? By the way flights to DET would cater to metro Detroiters and eastsiders who when there is traffic can take up to 45 minutes to get to DTW from eastern part of the Detroit area. So it would generate a fair amount of traffic for the right price and way more convenient than DTW sort of like FNT is for the northern suburbs..
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ikolkyo
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:16 am

klm617 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
Cheaper landing and airport use fees. If it had not been for noise regulations, G4 would have used Lunken instead of CVG, even when CVG had plenty of gate space.


Right now, Detroit has better things to do then reopen DET for commercial ops.


Says who ? By the way flights to DET would cater to metro Detroiters and eastsiders who when there is traffic can take up to 45 minutes to get to DTW from eastern part of the Detroit area. So it would generate a fair amount of traffic for the right price and way more convenient than DTW sort of like FNT is for the northern suburbs..


45 minutes? Never have had it take that long, regardless the time and effort that would have to go into DET to make it worthwhile could be better put into the city. The reason airlines left in the 90s is still present today, DET's runways are too short for larger aircraft and to reach meaningful destinations with those aircraft. As I said before there is a fresh North Terminal ready for use for any airline that wishes to serve the city of Detroit.
 
alfa164
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:55 am

ikolkyo wrote:
klm617 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Right now, Detroit has better things to do then reopen DET for commercial ops.

Says who ? By the way flights to DET would cater to metro Detroiters and eastsiders who when there is traffic can take up to 45 minutes to get to DTW from eastern part of the Detroit area. So it would generate a fair amount of traffic for the right price and way more convenient than DTW sort of like FNT is for the northern suburbs..

45 minutes? Never have had it take that long, regardless the time and effort that would have to go into DET to make it worthwhile could be better put into the city. The reason airlines left in the 90s is still present today, DET's runways are too short for larger aircraft and to reach meaningful destinations with those aircraft. As I said before there is a fresh North Terminal ready for use for any airline that wishes to serve the city of Detroit.

Let me be sure I read this right... the same poster who always whines about DTW not attracting enough flights.... now wants an airline at DTW to move its flights to DET?

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ikolkyo
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:03 am

alfa164 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Says who ? By the way flights to DET would cater to metro Detroiters and eastsiders who when there is traffic can take up to 45 minutes to get to DTW from eastern part of the Detroit area. So it would generate a fair amount of traffic for the right price and way more convenient than DTW sort of like FNT is for the northern suburbs..

45 minutes? Never have had it take that long, regardless the time and effort that would have to go into DET to make it worthwhile could be better put into the city. The reason airlines left in the 90s is still present today, DET's runways are too short for larger aircraft and to reach meaningful destinations with those aircraft. As I said before there is a fresh North Terminal ready for use for any airline that wishes to serve the city of Detroit.

Let me be sure I read this right... the same poster who always whines about DTW not attracting enough flights.... now wants an airline at DTW to move its flights to DET?

:banghead:


Yep.....
 
reasonable
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:10 am

While klm is right (guh) that it can take folks from the north side of metro Detroit even an hour to get to DTW, I suspect that he wants service to DET so that he can feel a sense of pride/self-affirmation that his hometown has two airports.

If, if, if, if, if. ProAir had a good run for a few years at City, but the airport would need to remove one of two cemeteries to really make the airport viable for sustained commercial service. Is there even ILS at DET? And to what end?

Maybe 33/15 could be rebuilt at a different heading, but then those lovely old hangars would have to be demolished :( and those are probably way more valuable as an economic development catalyst than a new runway (maybe a high school for aviation tech/design/engineering? maybe a skunkworks for the Tesla of personal hobby aircraft?)

Sorry, klm. Wah-wah.
 
michman
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:17 am

kavok wrote:
compensateme wrote:

DL is clearly committed to making DTW/SNA work: they've re-timed the MSP & ATL flights so that DTW-SNA is the only morning departure and SNA-DTW is the only early afternoon departure; DL's given DTW the most desirable departure times. Additionally, as you've mentioned, DL's loaded the 73W bridge. Contrast this to the second PDX flight, which was scheduled to inaugurate around the same time as SNA but recently got the boot.


Minor clarification: DL added a second (year round) DTW-PDX flight. Then, it was the original DTW-PDX flight schedule (a red-eye) that actually got the boot, as it is the second flight's schedule that remains.

I mention this for a few reasons:
1) It again (as you mentioned) shows that DL is trying to get better DTW flight times, as a red-eye flight is swapped for a more desirable midday flight. This will also help in the competition with AS, as AS is still running only a red-eye flight on PDX-DTW.

2) It makes me wonder if the original DL flight could be re-added as a second seasonal flight again next summer. Having red-eye flights are good for aircraft utilization after all, so DL wouldn't need much profit margin to make it work.



The red-eye returns in March. It was just dropped for January and February. It operates irregularly through December and then returns in March (also as less than daily). They actually operate the red-eye to the exclusion of the day time flight for the last week and a half of December. Likely due to being more focused on leisure travel rather than business during that time.
 
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11725Flyer
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:41 am

reasonable wrote:

If, if, if, if, if. ProAir had a good run for a few years at City, but the airport would need to remove one of two cemeteries to really make the airport viable for sustained commercial service. Is there even ILS at DET? And to what end?



Just for fun, here's ProAir's route map in 1999.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HWefOh5ZGv0/T ... 1%2529.jpg

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