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nitepilot79
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GA Aircraft Too Close To Mar-a-Lago Causes Scramble

Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:59 pm

After a problem the other week with a private jet getting too close to Air Force One outside of FLL (Trump going to Mar-a-Lago), a new incident (Friday 2/18) actually caused two F-15s to be scrambled from Homestead AFB to intercept a GA aircraft that got too close to 45 at Mar-a-Lago. Getting tired of bankrolling all of these trips to Florida, let alone this scramble on top of it:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/02/18/f- ... beach.html

Article quote:

"Two F-15s caused a ‘sonic boom’ as they raced from their base in Homestead, Fla., Friday to intercept an unresponsive general aviation aircraft that flew near Palm Beach during a stay by President Trump at Mar-a-Lago.

The jets flew at supersonic speeds and residents were startled by the loud boom, the North American Aerospace Defense Command, NORAD, said in a statement. The two fighters were able to establish communication with the aircraft. This incident occured at about 7 p.m. ET. No further details were immediately available."
 
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Acey559
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Re: GA Aircraft Too Close To Mar-a-Lago Causes Scramble

Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:35 pm

When Obama came to Portland a couple summers ago there was a Bonanza that violated the TFR. Controller wasn't pleased, as you can imagine. This stuff happens. Granted having fighters scrambled isn't an everyday occurrence but this type of stuff is common to basically every president since TFRs came into existence.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
727LOVER
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Re: GA Aircraft Too Close To Mar-a-Lago Causes Scramble

Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:45 pm

Airliners taking off on 10L or landing 28R....how close are they?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
ikramerica
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Re: GA Aircraft Too Close To Mar-a-Lago Causes Scramble

Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:15 pm

I'm sure the Palm Beach residents aren't too upset to have the nuisance GA aircraft banned from the area. The airlines have to fly parallel to the coast at a distance where you don't hear them too much, but the GA buzz around and annoy people.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
nitepilot79
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Re: GA Aircraft Too Close To Mar-a-Lago Causes Scramble

Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:31 pm

Acey559 wrote:
When Obama came to Portland a couple summers ago there was a Bonanza that violated the TFR. Controller wasn't pleased, as you can imagine. This stuff happens. Granted having fighters scrambled isn't an everyday occurrence but this type of stuff is common to basically every president since TFRs came into existence.


Right on. I posted a thread a couple weeks ago about the loss of separation between a private jet and AF1 outside of FLL and said in my op that that couldn't have been the first time this has happened to AF1. Should have been more clear on this thread. I'd attach a link, but it got too far back in the list of threads.
Last edited by nitepilot79 on Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
wjcandee
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Re: GA Aircraft Too Close To Mar-a-Lago Causes Scramble

Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:59 pm

I understand that one important purpose of the Internet is to allow people to express views, no matter how stupid or ill-informed.

But having lived through a number of Presidents, all of whom were imperfect but all of whom tried to do their best for their country based upon their own view of what it needed, I really wish that people would treat the officeholder with appropriate respect for the office, even if they don't like the person. It's why ancient President Bush set the standard for how the outgoing guy treats the incoming guy, treating incoming President Clinton with such grace and respect, even though the Clintonites had gruesomely besmirched him in the campaign, that it made a lifelong impression on President Clinton, who later formed an enduring personal friendship with him.

I'm amused by the recent media stories about how this or that person or city or group is inconvenienced by Presidential travel. President Obama goes to Martha's Vineyard or Hawaii, and the locals bitch about the inconvenience and bored reporters write about it. Or today the New York Times discovered that there's a bubble around Air Force One that disrupts banner-towing services and crop-dusters when Trump travels, and tried mightily to differentiate Trump's travel from all those who came before (and all they came up with really seemed to be "We don't like him like we liked the last guy.") Or the stories about how much it costs for the President to travel.

Here in NYC, I recall President Obama coming here practically weekly for fundraisers, causing a lot of disruption, because this is where the money is for candidates in his party. He's the President, he thinks he needs to do that, he does it, and I may grumble but I also accept it.

The bottom line is, I don't want my President hurt, regardless of whether I agree with what he is doing, because he's my President, and life here is a lot better than it would be for me anywhere else in the world. I like this country and any attack on him is an attack on all of us, regardless of who he or she is. And for all the trivial snarky bitching about what the President has to take with him, it turns out that until 9/11, it didn't all work that great and hadn't appropriately been modernized. President Bush gets on Air Force One in Florida after the attacks and discovers that its vaunted communications abilities were awesome for 1975 but not so great today, and that communicating was a challenging mess, and that everyone in the security apparatus had to do a lot of improvising because there really wasn't a great plan for where he should go or, more importantly, how to get him safely back to Washington, which is where he was determined to go despite the danger perceived by his advisors. So he ends up landing at Barksdale with fighters on each wing and is met by troops in full battle gear, and the commanding general of the Eighth Air Force at the foot of the stairs wearing a sidearm, while everyone proceeds to avail themselves of the communications facilities there. And when he comes to New York days later, he is met by cheering crowds lining West Street, none of whom had voted for him, as Mayor Guiliani famously pointed out. The guy was the President, and his presence here was very important, and he did a decent job of doing what needed to be done. What it costs to make sure he is ready and able to do that is, in my mind, basically irrelevant.

And it has to be that way and has to stay that way. Once the person is elected, he is ours for four years, and he needs unquestionably to travel, and I don't mind the expense or inconvenience of him doing that safely.
 
ChrisFallon77
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Re: GA Aircraft Too Close To Mar-a-Lago Causes Scramble

Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:11 am

wjcandee wrote:
I understand that one important purpose of the Internet is to allow people to express views, no matter how stupid or ill-informed.

But having lived through a number of Presidents, all of whom were imperfect but all of whom tried to do their best for their country based upon their own view of what it needed, I really wish that people would treat the officeholder with appropriate respect for the office, even if they don't like the person. It's why ancient President Bush set the standard for how the outgoing guy treats the incoming guy, treating incoming President Clinton with such grace and respect, even though the Clintonites had gruesomely besmirched him in the campaign, that it made a lifelong impression on President Clinton, who later formed an enduring personal friendship with him.

I'm amused by the recent media stories about how this or that person or city or group is inconvenienced by Presidential travel. President Obama goes to Martha's Vineyard or Hawaii, and the locals bitch about the inconvenience and bored reporters write about it. Or today the New York Times discovered that there's a bubble around Air Force One that disrupts banner-towing services and crop-dusters when Trump travels, and tried mightily to differentiate Trump's travel from all those who came before (and all they came up with really seemed to be "We don't like him like we liked the last guy.") Or the stories about how much it costs for the President to travel.

Here in NYC, I seem to recall President Obama coming here practically weekly for fundraisers, causing a lot of disruption, because this is where the money is for candidates in his party. He's the President, he thinks he needs to do that, he does it, and I may grumble but I also accept it.

The bottom line is, I don't want my President hurt, regardless of whether I agree with what he is doing, because he's my President, and life here is a lot better than it would be for me anywhere else in the world. I like this country and any attack on him is an attack on all of us, regardless of who he or she is. And for all the trivial snarky bitching about what the President has to take with him, it turns out that until 9/11, it didn't all work that great and hadn't appropriately been modernized. President Bush gets on Air Force One in Florida after the attacks and discovers that its vaunted communications abilities were awesome for 1975 but not so great today, and that communicating was a challenging mess, and that everyone in the security apparatus had to do a lot of improvising because there really wasn't a great plan for where he should go or, more importantly, how to get him safely back to Washington, which is where he was determined to go despite the danger perceived by his advisors. So he ends up landing at Barksdale with fighters on each wing and is met by troops in full battle gear, and the commanding general of the Eighth Air Force at the foot of the stairs wearing a sidearm, while everyone proceeds to avail themselves of the communications facilities there. And when he comes to New York days later, he is met by cheering crowds lining West Street, none of whom had voted for him, as Mayor Guiliani famously pointed out. The guy was the President, and his presence here was very important, and he did a decent job of doing what needed to be done. What it costs to make sure he is ready and able to do that is, in my mind, basically irrelevant.

And it has to be that way and has to stay that way. Once the person is elected, he is ours for four years, and he needs unquestionably to travel, and I don't mind the expense or inconvenience of him doing that safely.



Well said. Finally someone with common sense and class on the board in regards to the President(s). We want the leader of our country safe at all times regardless of their political party
 
727LOVER
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Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

Re: GA Aircraft Too Close To Mar-a-Lago Causes Scramble

Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:12 am

nitepilot,

if you look at the bottom of the page under SIMILAR TOPICS ....it's right there.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Bricktop
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Re: GA Aircraft Too Close To Mar-a-Lago Causes Scramble

Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:16 am

Thanks, wjcandee.
 
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eksath
Crew
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Re: GA Aircraft Too Close To Mar-a-Lago Causes Scramble

Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:37 am

On a related note of interest. I have been observing the tanking operation for the Combat Patrol for the past three weekends above South Florida.
Pictures are here at this link: Gallery of picture of Combat Air Patrol tanking in support of #45 in South Florida
World Wide Aerospace Photography
 
georgiabill
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Re: GA Aircraft Too Close To Mar-a-Lago Causes Scramble

Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:38 am

Well said wjcandee!
 
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Acey559
Posts: 1403
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Re: GA Aircraft Too Close To Mar-a-Lago Causes Scramble

Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:18 am

nitepilot79 wrote:
Acey559 wrote:
When Obama came to Portland a couple summers ago there was a Bonanza that violated the TFR. Controller wasn't pleased, as you can imagine. This stuff happens. Granted having fighters scrambled isn't an everyday occurrence but this type of stuff is common to basically every president since TFRs came into existence.


Right on. I posted a thread a couple weeks ago about the loss of separation between a private jet and AF1 outside of FLL and said in my op that that couldn't have been the first time this has happened to AF1. Should have been more clear on this thread. I'd attach a link, but it got too far back in the list of threads.


Oh no worries, I certainly didn't mean to sound critical. With all the negativity surrounding the Trump administration I suppose I just assumed it was a knock on him so apologies for that. I'm getting tired of constantly reading people across the internet constantly berating everything he does and jumped the gun a bit, though I was just attempting to be anecdotal and not critical. Have a great weekend. :)
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
canyonblue17
Posts: 704
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Re: GA Aircraft Too Close To Mar-a-Lago Causes Scramble

Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:43 am

I'm all for his safety. But I have a simple question. Is there anything he did/does at Mar-A-Lago for the good of the country that he can't do in Washington D.C.? I don't doubt that he is doing some work, but is it work that could be done elsewhere, thereby at least reducing the massive inconvenience to businesses and local residents?
negative ghostrider the pattern is full
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9287
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: GA Aircraft Too Close To Mar-a-Lago Causes Scramble

Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:09 am

canyonblue17 wrote:
I'm all for his safety. But I have a simple question. Is there anything he did/does at Mar-A-Lago for the good of the country that he can't do in Washington D.C.? I don't doubt that he is doing some work, but is it work that could be done elsewhere, thereby at least reducing the massive inconvenience to businesses and local residents?


That's not wholly-unfair. But that's not the way it works. Presidents have always left town on many weekends. The only reason we're hearing about it in the media is because it's Trump.

Well, to be fair, when Bush went to his ranch, we heard about it. Although less than this. When Obama and his various family members went places, we rarely heard about it in the mainstream media except when the locals bitched, like in Maine or Hawaii. Instead, it was in the Style pages -- "This or that family member or Himself looks so magical!!". Obama was rarely in town for the weekend; the press just weren't interested in criticizing -- I mean "covering" -- it. I didn't care when Reagan went to ride his favorite horse in California or Bush I went to Maine or Clinton went to some buddy's place in Palm Beach or Cali or Bora Bora, or Bush II went to Texas or Obama went golfing or, now, when Trump goes to Mar-A-Lago. The guy keeps up an incredible pace during the week, according to the New York Times which only wrote about it to criticize how inconvenient it was for his aides, so anyone could use a change of scenery on the weekend.

And, for comparison, try standing in the Congress Only parking area at DCA on a Friday morning or Thursday night. You would be trampled by legislators "going home to their districts". The senior ones get to fly on Air Force planes, like when Nancy Pelosi's staff would summon an Air Force executive jet and complain about the ones that didn't have the range to make San Francisco without refueling and at one point wanted her to get one of the 757s for her and her "guests" to go home every weekend. Since she was Speaker, she was in fact entitled to a certain level of protection and to avoid flying commercial. So it is what it is.

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