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KTPAFlyer
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CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:00 pm

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/ ... ic-flight/

Scary stuff.

Obviously you should have your documents on you when traveling; the scary part is that this is just the beginning. They now they have the right to check you on domestic flight, go through your phone,and refuse to allow you to board or leave. Of course, they are legally allowed to do this, but there is a big difference between doing it for a few people and doing it on a mass scale. As a legal US resident, this is terrifying.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:07 pm

This has been happening for decades. Also happens at departure gates.

Most often looking for specific persons or tips about alien smuggling.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
777PHX
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:09 pm

Yawn.

If this were some sort of new policy across the board, you would have heard about it long before this flight. I have a feeling they were just looking for someone in particular.

Nothing to see here. Move along.
 
bennett123
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:16 pm

I know passports are checked several times when you fly internally in the UK, check in, security and boarding.

Is it the same on internal flights in the US.
 
hinckley
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:21 pm

KTPAFlyer wrote:
go through your phone,


Where did you get this data point from?? It would be quite unconstitutional for this type of illegal search without a search warrant showing due cause. I'm not doubting the rest of the story, but this part is dubious.
 
Leslieville
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:23 pm

KTPAFlyer wrote:
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/02/23/immigration-checking-ids-on-domestic-flight/

Scary stuff.

Obviously you should have your documents on you when traveling; the scary part is that this is just the beginning. They now they have the right to check you on domestic flight, go through your phone,and refuse to allow you to board or leave. Of course, they are legally allowed to do this, but there is a big difference between doing it for a few people and doing it on a mass scale. As a legal US resident, this is terrifying.


As a Canadian, I am used to going through US customs during pre-clearance leaving Canadian airports with US customs presence or or upon arrival. What I had never previously seen was a document check and secondary questioning occurring on the jet bridge for a domestic US flight (TYS-MSP). I had my passport ready to go and was subject to the usual customs questions (why are you in the US, what is your business, how long have you been here, etc.), but I was caught by surprise when they looked through my passport and began quite aggressively questioning me about the purpose of my travel to another country (Egypt) more than a year ago (it was for work). The dragnet was definitely catching some US citizens off-guard and prompted some muttered comments of disbelief.

What stood out to me, though, was that they had taken a woman aside to do some more probing questioning. As I waited for my turn for the document check, I overheard an officer asking the woman if she used email, Facebook, or Instagram, does she use her phone for social media, and why was she traveling to... (I didn't hear the destination but it turns out that she was traveling to Canada and we were on the same flight from TYS to MSP and then YYC.) For what it's worth, she was wearing what appeared to be more traditional African clothes and must have been in her 50s and I later saw that she had a US passport (she asked for my assistance finding her seat on the plane and showed me her boarding pass on top of her passport; we were in the same row).
 
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KTPAFlyer
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:28 pm

LAXintl wrote:
This has been happening for decades. Also happens at departure gates.


Yes, Internationally, but not domestically. If they're going to start creating queues to check passports domestically, then it erodes the concept of customs at the port of entry. In other words, you are no longer securely in the country when transferring at airports if a passport is required as would be needed to enter the country in the first place. I don't find checking passports a problem in itself; I find it completely idiotic and myopic to think that it is somehow in the interest of "national security" to require a passport for domestic flights but not when driving or taking rail to the same place.

777PHX wrote:
If this were some sort of new policy across the board, you would have heard about it long before this flight. I have a feeling they were just looking for someone in particular.


With a CBP officer? If they were looking for someone in particular, they should do it within legal bounds of a domestic flight; ie. Drivers license. Domestic flights are not within the jurisdiction of CBP regardless of it is within 100 miles of a border etc. The fact that it wasn't police or even TSA who actually have legal jurisdiction on domestic flights leads me to believe otherwise.
 
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enilria
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:38 pm

Article is already corrected. Nothing new about this...

Update: Per Gothamist, the CBP has provided the following statement regarding this incident:

According to a CBP spokesman, the agency “was contacted by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) yesterday, February 22, 2017, to assist in locating an individual possibly aboard Delta flight 1583 from San Francisco International Airport to JFK. This individual was ordered removed by an immigration judge.”

“To assist our law enforcement partners, two CBP officers requested identification from those on the flight in order to help identify the individual,” he added. “The individual was determined not to be on the flight.”
 
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LAXintl
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:41 pm

Yes this has been happening domestically for decades. I know because Ive seen it working flights and eve had departing flights held up because of it.

Actually there was period few years back they were very active screening redeye flights at LAX for whatever reason almost on daily basis.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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FabDiva
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:43 pm

bennett123 wrote:
I know passports are checked several times when you fly internally in the UK, check in, security and boarding.

Is it the same on internal flights in the US.


Passports are not checked on UK Domestic flights. Last time I flew Domestic (a few days ago) My ID was checked at Security (after I set the detector off) and the gate outbound, only at the gate return. The main reason ID is required for domestic flights is to present resale of tickets. BA do not require ID for domestic flights at all!
 
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LAXintl
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:56 pm

Must remember alphabet soup of Federal agencies work in our airports and are tasked with fighting contraband smuggling, capture fugitives, stop alien smuggling etc. and as such do interact with domestic flights and passengers.
Just because one is within the US does not mean there its a free transit zone exempt from any potential law enforcement scrutiny.
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B747forever
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:11 pm

KTPAFlyer wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
This has been happening for decades. Also happens at departure gates.


Yes, Internationally, but not domestically. If they're going to start creating queues to check passports domestically, then it erodes the concept of customs at the port of entry. In other words, you are no longer securely in the country when transferring at airports if a passport is required as would be needed to enter the country in the first place.



Checking some kind of ID (passport, DL etc) must have been in place for a while. Have had a couple flights over the past few years where TSA has been checking everyone's ID before being allowed to enter the jetbridge. This is nothing new.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
glbltrvlr
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:13 pm

hinckley wrote:
KTPAFlyer wrote:
go through your phone,


Where did you get this data point from?? It would be quite unconstitutional for this type of illegal search without a search warrant showing due cause. I'm not doubting the rest of the story, but this part is dubious.


Perhaps surprisingly, it's not. CBP/ICE have far greater powers to search without a warrant than regular law enforcement do. Those powers are available not just at entry points, but up to 75 miles of the border. Even as a US citizen, while CBP cannot hold you, they can detain you for hours and keep any smart devices/computers they wish.

It's not a pleasant thought.
 
b6sea
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:21 am

glbltrvlr wrote:
hinckley wrote:
KTPAFlyer wrote:
go through your phone,


Where did you get this data point from?? It would be quite unconstitutional for this type of illegal search without a search warrant showing due cause. I'm not doubting the rest of the story, but this part is dubious.


Perhaps surprisingly, it's not. CBP/ICE have far greater powers to search without a warrant than regular law enforcement do. Those powers are available not just at entry points, but up to 75 miles of the border. Even as a US citizen, while CBP cannot hold you, they can detain you for hours and keep any smart devices/computers they wish.

It's not a pleasant thought.


My understanding is that searching a device is only allowed at a port of entry and requires "reasonable suspicion" which, in case anyone isn't aware, is a specific set of legally defined circumstances, not just a border guard who says "I'm suspicious" as it sounds. Further, outside of a port of entry, CBP agents are extremely limited in what they can and cannot do. At a port of entry, yes, their powers are beyond typical law enforcement powers, outside of the port of entry, they have to abide by more or less the same rules as other law enforcement agencies, with a few exceptions that have to do with proximity to the border. And, again, being detained outside of a port of entry requires reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed, it's as simple as that.
 
FlyDeltaJets
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:27 am

I have never seen CBP officers check the ID's of passengers deplaning a domestic flight, I have been in multiple US airports working various roles for more than 15 years. That's not to say its never happened, Im just saying I have never seen or heard of it, so it is definitely not the routine even some are trying to make it out to be. Yes TSA at times checks ID before boarding and it was at one point standard practice to show ID at boarding but CBP officers checking passenger ID's on a domestic arrival is new.

As for CBP authority at the border and the customs hall, they actually have minimal restrictions. The supreme court just recently ruled that probable cause is not required for the to excecute searches of electronic devices in a customs hall or in a border region.

https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
mjoelnir
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:19 pm

hinckley wrote:
KTPAFlyer wrote:
go through your phone,


Where did you get this data point from?? It would be quite unconstitutional for this type of illegal search without a search warrant showing due cause. I'm not doubting the rest of the story, but this part is dubious.


Since when is CBP bothered by thoughts about their actions being constitutional?
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:48 pm

Last week, there was a security breach at JetBlue's Terminal 5 at JFK Airport. The thinking is that someone who breached security was on that flight.
 
kalvado
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:22 pm

I've seen CBP going through Amtrak train in upstate NY at least twice. They start with "Are you US citizen?" or something along those lines.
Best part was waiting for train in BUF. Train was coming from Chicago, and was late by 2 or 3 hours, as it normally does. 2 idling SUVs with CBP stickers were patiently waiting in the parking lot, 8 or 10 people inside .... Even at $10/hour that was a bit of spending going on.
Oh, and that was sometime around beginning of second Obama's term.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:29 pm

glbltrvlr wrote:
hinckley wrote:
KTPAFlyer wrote:
go through your phone,
Perhaps surprisingly, it's not. CBP/ICE have far greater powers to search without a warrant than regular law enforcement do. Those powers are available not just at entry points, but up to 75 miles of the border. Even as a US citizen, while CBP cannot hold you, they can detain you for hours and keep any smart devices/computers they wish.


What is a border in this case? International flights land in Atlanta or Denver, does that make a 75 mile circle around those airports that is near the border?
 
Bricktop
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:33 pm

What is new is the occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. This is just the overblown scare of the day.
 
glbltrvlr
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:14 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
What is a border in this case? International flights land in Atlanta or Denver, does that make a 75 mile circle around those airports that is near the border?


Airports are considered entry points. The border is the physical boundary of the United States. Presumably that also extends to the territorial border over water.
 
malioil
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:33 pm

scbriml wrote:
FabDiva wrote:
BA do not require ID for domestic flights at all!


I've always been required to show id on BA domestic flights when checking in a bag.


That is because you are checking in a bag. I fly LGW-EDI-LGW weekly and with a mobile boarding bass never need to show ID.
 
ikramerica
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:35 pm

The press is showing just how dishonest and untrustworthy they really are.

Now that trump is president, they are exposing years and decades old policies and reporting them as if they are newly implemented by s fascist. The checks have always happened, the raid frequency has NOT increased. The only actual change since Jan 20 is a temporary ban on people from six war torn nations and one enemy state (stayed) and an increase in enforcement at the physical southern border. Everything else is a continuation of policies that were conveniently not reported on when Obama was president.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
ahj2000
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:41 pm

Bricktop wrote:
What is new is the occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. This is just the overblown scare of the day.

Exactly. I'm far from a Trump supporter, but this is getting ridiculous. The paranoia is uncalled for and just getting worse. Regardless, traveling without ID is a major pain in the ass if you're over 18, so the vast majority of people on this flight would have at least a DL or comparable on this flight anyway. Not a real issue.
-Andrés Juánez
 
slowrambler
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:10 pm

Oh please. The airline has a manifest of the passengers on the flight. This has already been checked against the boarding pass at TSA. How does looking at everyone's IDs on a flight when deplaning help them find a person (who apparently wasn't even on the flight)?

This is absolutely not normal. Yes, sometimes specific people are removed on landing, sometimes people are pulled out in the jetbridge (though I've really only seen this on international flights). But a full ID check deplaning a domestic US flight?
 
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enilria
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:15 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
Exactly. I'm far from a Trump supporter, but this is getting ridiculous. The paranoia is uncalled for and just getting worse.
ikramerica wrote:
The press is showing just how dishonest and untrustworthy they really are.

Now that trump is president, they are exposing years and decades old policies and reporting them as if they are newly implemented by s fascist. The checks have always happened, the raid frequency has NOT increased. The only actual change since Jan 20 is a temporary ban on people from six war torn nations and one enemy state (stayed) and an increase in enforcement at the physical southern border. Everything else is a continuation of policies that were conveniently not reported on when Obama was president.

It's all fear-mongering being fed as a desperate attempt by the establishment to block any real change. This is what change is like.
 
910A
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:24 pm

ikramerica wrote:
The press is showing just how dishonest and untrustworthy they really are.

The checks have always happened, the raid frequency has NOT increased. The only actual change since Jan 20 is a temporary ban on people from six war torn nations and one enemy state (stayed) and an increase in enforcement at the physical southern border. Everything else is a continuation of policies that were conveniently not reported on when Obama was president.


I've been flying commercial since 1969, and not once have I seen or been subject to an ID check getting off a domestic flight. If the alleged deportation order is for a person of a certain race, why are the CBP checking everyone identification regardless of race?
 
Zachbt
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:32 pm

malioil wrote:
scbriml wrote:
FabDiva wrote:
BA do not require ID for domestic flights at all!


I've always been required to show id on BA domestic flights when checking in a bag.


That is because you are checking in a bag. I fly LGW-EDI-LGW weekly and with a mobile boarding bass never need to show ID.


Sorry but I fly bfs/bhd-lgw/lpl/man at least 3 times each a year and at each airport I always have to show my passport going through security and at the gate at both points. All domestic flights with no checked luggage, you must have a trusting face
 
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lightsaber
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:22 pm

Leslieville wrote:
KTPAFlyer wrote:
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/02/23/immigration-checking-ids-on-domestic-flight/

Scary stuff.

Obviously you should have your documents on you when traveling; the scary part is that this is just the beginning. They now they have the right to check you on domestic flight, go through your phone,and refuse to allow you to board or leave. Of course, they are legally allowed to do this, but there is a big difference between doing it for a few people and doing it on a mass scale. As a legal US resident, this is terrifying.


As a Canadian, I am used to going through US customs during pre-clearance leaving Canadian airports with US customs presence or or upon arrival. What I had never previously seen was a document check and secondary questioning occurring on the jet bridge for a domestic US flight (TYS-MSP). I had my passport ready to go and was subject to the usual customs questions (why are you in the US, what is your business, how long have you been here, etc.), but I was caught by surprise when they looked through my passport and began quite aggressively questioning me about the purpose of my travel to another country (Egypt) more than a year ago (it was for work). The dragnet was definitely catching some US citizens off-guard and prompted some muttered comments of disbelief.

What stood out to me, though, was that they had taken a woman aside to do some more probing questioning. As I waited for my turn for the document check, I overheard an officer asking the woman if she used email, Facebook, or Instagram, does she use her phone for social media, and why was she traveling to... (I didn't hear the destination but it turns out that she was traveling to Canada and we were on the same flight from TYS to MSP and then YYC.) For what it's worth, she was wearing what appeared to be more traditional African clothes and must have been in her 50s and I later saw that she had a US passport (she asked for my assistance finding her seat on the plane and showed me her boarding pass on top of her passport; we were in the same row).

I've been checked multiple times under prior presidents.

Half the time I think I was the token male so the could check the documents of the female volleyball team... Yawn.

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phlsfo
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:31 pm

slowrambler wrote:
Oh please. The airline has a manifest of the passengers on the flight. This has already been checked against the boarding pass at TSA. How does looking at everyone's IDs on a flight when deplaning help them find a person (who apparently wasn't even on the flight)?

This is absolutely not normal. Yes, sometimes specific people are removed on landing, sometimes people are pulled out in the jetbridge (though I've really only seen this on international flights). But a full ID check deplaning a domestic US flight?


Then you must not travel that much. It is very common for CBP to check ID's on arrival of all pax when looking for a specific person. I see it happen quite frequently. Domestic is not common however if they know someone of interest is there then by all means they may check the flight.

We do not know if this has anything to do with the executive order or not. People are deported for many reasons all the time.
 
32andBelow
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:33 pm

bennett123 wrote:
I know passports are checked several times when you fly internally in the UK, check in, security and boarding.

Is it the same on internal flights in the US.

No, none of us have passports on us when flying domestically in the US
 
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Boeing717200
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:37 pm

32andBelow wrote:
No, none of us have passports on us when flying domestically in the US


Not exactly, I carry mine all the time because my travel can change enroute..

Further, you do need a government issued ID to fly and if you're not a US citizen, you do need to have your passport with you.
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
sk736
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:48 pm

bennett123 wrote:
I know passports are checked several times when you fly internally in the UK, check in, security and boarding.

Is it the same on internal flights in the US.


You're wrong, passports are not checked by customs or immigration in the UK on domestic flights -low cost airlines check documents as a revenue protection measure to ensure the pasenger named on the ticket is the person travelling and for no other reason. BA never asks for ID on domestic flights because their is no security or immigration requirement to do so.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:51 pm

Just a reminder, the topic is regarding CBP reportedly checking documents on domestic US flights. Broader discussions on immigration or procedures in other countries should either take place in Non Aviation, or if the topic is Civil Aviation related, in a different topic in this forum.

Please try to keep this discussion on topic and Civil Aviation related.

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litz
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:18 pm

I've seen several comments about "this is normal, you have to have this identification to check a bag, at the gate, etc" ...

Let's remember the focus of this thread : passengers being checked for ID when deplaning after arriving at their domestic destination ...

Needing ID for getting onto the airplane has been in place for a long time.

Needing ID to get off the airplane, that's something new.
 
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ua900
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:20 pm

KTPAFlyer wrote:
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/02/23/immigration-checking-ids-on-domestic-flight/

Scary stuff.

Obviously you should have your documents on you when traveling; the scary part is that this is just the beginning. They now they have the right to check you on domestic flight, go through your phone, and refuse to allow you to board or leave. Of course, they are legally allowed to do this, but there is a big difference between doing it for a few people and doing it on a mass scale. As a legal US resident, this is terrifying.


Very specific cause here within a very narrow band: ICE gets specific information on an individual who is subject to deportation and is asking CBP to do an ID check to try to find that individual.

If don't you want to talk to CBP, talk to the airport police. You can always ask them why and chances are you'll get an answer. Did you complain initially when you shared data and ID in order to obtain a ticket and pass through TSA / CAS? Why is it scary? If you're a LPR or visa holder ICE and CBP are technically directly responsible for you, so if there's one agency that could check you as a LPR / visa holder at any time for any reason, ironically CBP / ICE / USCIS would actually be it.

Now, that likely doesn't apply to most people on the flight, who could either refuse (a la internal CBP checkpoint) to show ID or answer any questions, show a state DL or whatever they used for TSA / CAS checkpoint, or happily engage in some other conversation.

KTPAFlyer wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
This has been happening for decades. Also happens at departure gates.


Yes, Internationally, but not domestically. If they're going to start creating queues to check passports domestically, then it erodes the concept of customs at the port of entry. In other words, you are no longer securely in the country when transferring at airports if a passport is required as would be needed to enter the country in the first place. I don't find checking passports a problem in itself; I find it completely idiotic and myopic to think that it is somehow in the interest of "national security" to require a passport for domestic flights but not when driving or taking rail to the same place.

777PHX wrote:
If this were some sort of new policy across the board, you would have heard about it long before this flight. I have a feeling they were just looking for someone in particular.


With a CBP officer? If they were looking for someone in particular, they should do it within legal bounds of a domestic flight; ie. Drivers license. Domestic flights are not within the jurisdiction of CBP regardless of it is within 100 miles of a border etc. The fact that it wasn't police or even TSA who actually have legal jurisdiction on domestic flights leads me to believe otherwise.


Look at the story. They're not responsible for the U.S. citizens on that flight, they have no jurisdiction there. ICE and CBP have jurisdiction over green card holders and visa holders. Airport Police and TSA have zero business there unless something else is involved. Since this request was specifically based on immigration DHS handled that, they're actually responsible there, unless you think that Airport Police and TSA should start checking on immigration status. ;-)

You're a U.S. citizen and you speak to ICE / CBP on ID and you don't want to give them that or don't have one? Dunno how you got through the security checkpoint (unless you flew through JFK ;-)) but technically you could also respond that you are a U.S. citizen, i.e. not the person they're looking for.

bennett123 wrote:
I know passports are checked several times when you fly internally in the UK, check in, security and boarding.

Is it the same on internal flights in the US.


Not in the U.S., in case you're a citizen travelling domestically. Many non-visitors who don't hold a U.S. passport will use a U.S. state-issued DL or similar to ID themselves to state and local agencies or when checking in for a domestic flight and that's perfectly compliant with TSA mandates since it's domestic travel.

But, as a foreign national, you are also required to either have your passport or your green card with you at all times (though you can use a driver's license when checking in for your domestic flight), and you need to hold a valid visa in case you required a visa to enter the U.S.

Mind you that most local law enforcement in the U.S. will not even try to check on your immigration status. However, DHS through ICE and CBP have direct jurisdiction over non-citizens anywhere in the U.S. and are allowed to stop non-citizens and inspect their documents at any time and for any reason. That's part of what you sign up for when you apply for a green card or visa in the first place. Whether they can do anything beyond a mere ID check will depend on whether you violated any laws, especially laws and regulations pertaining to your stay in the U.S.

For U.S. citizens there's no requirement to even own a passport, let alone carry it domestically. It's always better to carry some form of ID in life in case someone asks you because it saves you from a lengthier check to establish your identify through other means, but in the U.S. there's no requirement to carry any ID outside of facilities that you might want access to or specific activities that require some form of ID (driving on a public road, commercial flying, piloting a plane that requires a PPC/CPL, buying liquor when looking like you might be underage, airports, court house, working in sterile areas, work facilities that require it from their employees, etc)

Last time I entered the UK I used a German national ID card, not even a passport, same as when I enter Germany or Switzerland when arriving on a U.S. flight for example. But of course if I fly to say Russia or Singapore I need to have a passport with me all the time, unless I'm say a dual citizen or hold a residency card, in which case I can carry those IDs instead.

litz wrote:
I've seen several comments about "this is normal, you have to have this identification to check a bag, at the gate, etc" ...

Let's remember the focus of this thread : passengers being checked for ID when deplaning after arriving at their domestic destination ...

Needing ID for getting onto the airplane has been in place for a long time.

Needing ID to get off the airplane, that's something new.


At the end of the day, it comes down to where you are. You're still airside, well within what's referred to as the sterile area / secure area.
Last edited by ua900 on Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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marktci
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:05 am

Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:21 pm

b6sea wrote:
glbltrvlr wrote:
hinckley wrote:

Where did you get this data point from?? It would be quite unconstitutional for this type of illegal search without a search warrant showing due cause. I'm not doubting the rest of the story, but this part is dubious.


Perhaps surprisingly, it's not. CBP/ICE have far greater powers to search without a warrant than regular law enforcement do. Those powers are available not just at entry points, but up to 75 miles of the border. Even as a US citizen, while CBP cannot hold you, they can detain you for hours and keep any smart devices/computers they wish.

It's not a pleasant thought.


My understanding is that searching a device is only allowed at a port of entry and requires "reasonable suspicion" which, in case anyone isn't aware, is a specific set of legally defined circumstances, not just a border guard who says "I'm suspicious" as it sounds. Further, outside of a port of entry, CBP agents are extremely limited in what they can and cannot do. At a port of entry, yes, their powers are beyond typical law enforcement powers, outside of the port of entry, they have to abide by more or less the same rules as other law enforcement agencies, with a few exceptions that have to do with proximity to the border. And, again, being detained outside of a port of entry requires reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed, it's as simple as that.


The search can be done for a range of reasons including the wildcard "random search". There is no "reasonable suspicion" hurdle to clear.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-2 ... r-without-
 
Flvick
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:44 am

Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:58 pm

CBP has been doing this and many other "covert" operations on domestic flights as well as Amtrak and Greyhound. I call them covert because they are really not what they say it is. I have seen several of these "checkpoints" that are nowhere near the border but they are still checking for various excuses. Contraband, missing persons, smuggling, trafficking etc. They always say they are looking for someone but end up catching a whole bunch of people that have nothing to do with who they were looking for. A couple of years ago there was a raid at a factory in Tampa Florida. They were looking for a convicted rapist, that's right folks CBP was looking for a convicted rapist that had skipped bail. They ended up catching more than 35 illegal aliens. An operation which CBP called very "successful". The guy they said they were looking for was never identified and was not found. Several questions came up on that case and CBP ended up calling the raid an "inadvertently successful raid". CBP was sued by some of the Legal workers in the factory as well as the owner, they settled out of court. I do not know what they sued for as CBP agreed to a settlement that included non-disclosure agreements from the involved parties. How about that?

Some of these agents are good people that truly love and know their skill for enforcing the law, however unfortunately most of them are incompetent and feel extremely powerful behind the federal badge. To all of those saying that you would "give them a hell of a time", they would do the same to you my friends. They would "hold you" or "detain you" without being arrested until all is cleared up for you. Hours and hours, loss of time, your flight, unnecessary paperwork that YOU would need to fill out. Been there and done that. Its better to just comply and move on.
 
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kitplane01
Posts: 1719
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:13 am

bennett123 wrote:
I know passports are checked several times when you fly internally in the UK, check in, security and boarding.

Is it the same on internal flights in the US.


I have NEVER had my passport checked flying domestic. I don't even bring it, and as far as I know no one else does either.
Why is the UK checking your passport for a domestic flight?
 
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kgaiflyer
Posts: 2741
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:28 am

Had it happen traveling BWI-YYZ // YYZ-YYG, and didn't think anything of it.

I'm used to undercover-cop-looking tattooed dudes on the jetbridge.

Anyone think of asking them what they're looking for?
 
Wingtips56
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:46 am

It looks like some folks missed the posting (or read/re-read the article) noting that the article had been updated: CBP was looking for someone specific on that one flight, not searching every flight. I assume it may have been an illegal or other foreigner reported to be on that flight they were trying to find for some reason, which would be in their jurisdiction. A police or sheriff deputy would be sufficient looking for someone that knocked off a Mickey D's.
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INFINITI329
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Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:19 am

slowrambler wrote:
Oh please. The airline has a manifest of the passengers on the flight. This has already been checked against the boarding pass at TSA. How does looking at everyone's IDs on a flight when deplaning help them find a person (who apparently wasn't even on the flight)?

This is absolutely not normal. Yes, sometimes specific people are removed on landing, sometimes people are pulled out in the jetbridge (though I've really only seen this on international flights). But a full ID check deplaning a domestic US flight?


Yes the names may or may not have been checked against federal systems. However, CBP would have no idea if the person got on the flight. Most airlines will not give up the flight manifest to law enforcement without a warrant. So CBP must operate on a tip and investigate.
 
grbauc
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:02 am

LAXintl wrote:
Must remember alphabet soup of Federal agencies work in our airports and are tasked with fighting contraband smuggling, capture fugitives, stop alien smuggling etc. and as such do interact with domestic flights and passengers.
Just because one is within the US does not mean there its a free transit zone exempt from any potential law enforcement scrutiny.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: And it shouldn't be a free transit zone.
 
b6sea
Posts: 569
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:44 pm

Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:25 am

marktci wrote:
b6sea wrote:
glbltrvlr wrote:

Perhaps surprisingly, it's not. CBP/ICE have far greater powers to search without a warrant than regular law enforcement do. Those powers are available not just at entry points, but up to 75 miles of the border. Even as a US citizen, while CBP cannot hold you, they can detain you for hours and keep any smart devices/computers they wish.

It's not a pleasant thought.


My understanding is that searching a device is only allowed at a port of entry and requires "reasonable suspicion" which, in case anyone isn't aware, is a specific set of legally defined circumstances, not just a border guard who says "I'm suspicious" as it sounds. Further, outside of a port of entry, CBP agents are extremely limited in what they can and cannot do. At a port of entry, yes, their powers are beyond typical law enforcement powers, outside of the port of entry, they have to abide by more or less the same rules as other law enforcement agencies, with a few exceptions that have to do with proximity to the border. And, again, being detained outside of a port of entry requires reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed, it's as simple as that.


The search can be done for a range of reasons including the wildcard "random search". There is no "reasonable suspicion" hurdle to clear.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-2 ... r-without-


Sorry, I misspoke, at a port of entry that's absolutely correct, although CBP has far greater powers at ports of entry than they do in other contexts.
 
aviatorcraig
Posts: 572
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:14 pm

Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:32 am

A quote from the OP's linked article:
---
My flight from SFO to JFK. We were told we couldn't disembark without showing our "documents."
---
So if a passenger couldn't provide satisfactory documentation what are they going to do, send them back to SFO? :)
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diverted
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Re: CBP now checking documents on some domestic flights

Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:27 am

grbauc wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Must remember alphabet soup of Federal agencies work in our airports and are tasked with fighting contraband smuggling, capture fugitives, stop alien smuggling etc. and as such do interact with domestic flights and passengers.
Just because one is within the US does not mean there its a free transit zone exempt from any potential law enforcement scrutiny.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: And it shouldn't be a free transit zone.


I don't think anyone's saying an airport should be a free transit zone. I have no problem showing my ID to the airline if they ask when I check in, or TSA when I go through security if they want to see it. But for CBP to be asking to see people's passports on a domestic flight is asinine. They have no reason to be doing that. It'd be like CBP asking to see your passport while you drive down the highway. Sure, while driving you're subject to being pulled over, and asked for ID. But you're already in the country, they have no reason to ask for your passport.

Gotta love the Patriot Act, and Donald's stirring of the pot isn't helping either.

Maybe all US politicians should have a refresher course on what the country was founded on. And maybe the population should too. This is getting ridiculous



Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.


Seems Franklin knew what was up

And on an unrelated, but similar note, Eisenhower basically predicted the last half of the 20th century and thus far the 21st.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military–industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together.

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