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octubre299
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Will KLM put New Business class on all wide bodies?

Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:04 am

KLM seems to have a very disjointed product right now. The new business class is only on select aircraft and not on others. Did they run out of money? or was it always the plan to have a two tiered experience?

Cheers

Jeffrey
 
FrancisBegbie
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Re: Will KLM put New Business class on all wide bodies?

Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:16 am

octubre299 wrote:
KLM seems to have a very disjointed product right now. The new business class is only on select aircraft and not on others. Did they run out of money? or was it always the plan to have a two tiered experience?

Cheers

Jeffrey


They can hardly ground the entire fleet for a month so they can do the refurb in one go, can they? All 744s are done, all 772 and 773s, 789s come with the new product from the factory and only the 330s have the old product, but they are the next ones in the schedule for refurb. So it's not 'very disjointed' by most people's standards I dare to say.
 
EddieDude
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Re: Will KLM put New Business class on all wide bodies?

Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:40 am

Hey FrancisBegbie, thanks for the update on the status of the retrofitting. I agree with you. It was very nice to find out that the 777 fleet has been retrofitted too... I thought some of those birds where still with the old World Business Class. Definitely great progress has been made. And btw, the New WBC is quite nice. I have experienced it twice on board the 744 Combis and I really love it.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
jumbojet
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Re: Will KLM put New Business class on all wide bodies?

Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:34 am

judging by seatguru, it doenst look like the new business layout is all direct aisle access with the exception of the 789. is this accurate?
 
FrancisBegbie
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Re: Will KLM put New Business class on all wide bodies?

Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:40 am

jumbojet wrote:
judging by seatguru, it doenst look like the new business layout is all direct aisle access with the exception of the 789. is this accurate?


https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_en/prepar ... newwbc.htm

I'd still happily take the window seat. Those 12 seats still beat 372 other seats in the 77W :)
 
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Iemand91
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Re: Will KLM put New Business class on all wide bodies?

Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:00 am

All 747 have the new WBC. All 777's have the new WBC (the last -300ER PH-BVK is currently undergoing the cabin reconfiguration).
Next up are the A33-200's; currently they have 30 WBC, 35 Y-comfort and 178 Y for a total of 243 seats.
They will remove 12 WBC seats and add 25 Y-seats. (So most likely the WBC-section behind doors 2L/2R will be removed and exchanged for the new 25 Y-seats).
This will take about 2 months.

At the end of 2017 they will replace the old WBC seats of the A330 for the new Diamond Seats; the same as the 747's and 777's.
Interesting thing is that currently, no A330 or 777-200ER will get the new livery.

Also; KLM has one of the highest utilization of aircraft in the world and to accomplish that; you don't ground the entire fleet for several weeks/months just to change WBC-seats. ;)
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
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Jawaiiansky66
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Re: Will KLM put New Business class on all wide bodies?

Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:22 pm

Very disappointed with all of the business class offerings that KLM has, especially about a year ago. Wow, what...like 5 different models now?

I love KLM and their great service and decided to fly them at the end of 2015 from YVR to Africa via AMS due to their amazing day flight from AMS to Jo-burg (on a clear day you fly over the entire length of Europe and Africa and can see everything). The flight down to Jo-burg was superb in their 777-200 with the new (at that time) 'bullet hole partition' business class product. Liked the product but unfortunately, it was wasted on a day flight.

At the end of my 5 week trip, I flew the flight from Capetown back to AMS on a 777-200 and got the old MD-11 style 'shell' inclined business class seats which are very uncomfortable to sleep on (and are hard to actually operate). The FA had to help me to set it up manually when things didn't work. I had read in KLM's inflight magazine that all of the 777s were to have been fitted with the new business class seat by the time of my flights but unfortunately this was not the case. What a huge difference.

Now, I see that KLM has another NEW business class offering. Stop! The differences between all of the different products is significant enough to really affect the overall flight experience. But, I still like KLM... lol.
 
octubre299
Topic Author
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Re: Will KLM put New Business class on all wide bodies?

Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:38 pm

I hear you, I am trying to book LAX to DAR and the LAX-AMS 747 does have the new and very nice Business class but then they use a 777-200 to DAR with lie flat beds that are not truly flat like Emirates but the even worse type where your legs just hang. Very uncomfortable.
 
76er
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Re: Will KLM put New Business class on all wide bodies?

Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:55 pm

Sounds to me like you are talking about the old seat. EK has 2-3-2 in business on the T7, KL now has 2-2-2 or better, with only the 330 fleet that is still due for new truly full flat.
 
octubre299
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Posts: 49
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Re: Will KLM put New Business class on all wide bodies?

Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:25 pm

MMMMM now you've made me doubt myself but here it is in Seatguru where the version 1 of the 777-200 is still the not so nice seat. Would love to see some actual pictures.

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/KLM/K ... 77-200.php

Hope it's just a seat guru error and they do have the new world business class on all 777's

Jeffrey
 
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Iemand91
Posts: 654
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Re: Will KLM put New Business class on all wide bodies?

Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:02 pm

octubre299 wrote:
MMMMM now you've made me doubt myself but here it is in Seatguru where the version 1 of the 777-200 is still the not so nice seat. Would love to see some actual pictures.

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/KLM/K ... 77-200.php

Hope it's just a seat guru error and they do have the new world business class on all 777's

Jeffrey

:alert:

Iemand91 wrote:
All 747 have the new WBC. All 777's have the new WBC (the last -300ER PH-BVK is currently undergoing the cabin reconfiguration).
Next up are the A33-200's; currently they have 30 WBC, 35 Y-comfort and 178 Y for a total of 243 seats.
They will remove 12 WBC seats and add 25 Y-seats. (So most likely the WBC-section behind doors 2L/2R will be removed and exchanged for the new 25 Y-seats).
This will take about 2 months.

At the end of 2017 they will replace the old WBC seats of the A330 for the new Diamond Seats; the same as the 747's and 777's.
Interesting thing is that currently, no A330 or 777-200ER will get the new livery.

Also; KLM has one of the highest utilization of aircraft in the world and to accomplish that; you don't ground the entire fleet for several weeks/months just to change WBC-seats. ;)


Apart from the A330's; all KLM wide-body aircraft have full flat Business seats. Information about the A330's seats in my previous comment above.

All KLM 747-400:

Image

All 777-200ER's and 777-300ER:

Image

All 787-9:
Image
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
octubre299
Topic Author
Posts: 49
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Re: Will KLM put New Business class on all wide bodies?

Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:57 am

If you are 100% sure then boo boo to Seatguru and lucky for me. Thanks for the pics.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Will KLM put New Business class on all wide bodies?

Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:10 am

octubre299 wrote:
If you are 100% sure then boo boo to Seatguru and lucky for me. Thanks for the pics.


The pics are nice, they also confirm that only the 787 has direct aisle access. It really sucks having the window seat and needing to step over someone to get out into the aisle, it also sucks having the aisle seat and having someone step over you all the time when they need to get out from their window seat. For me, having direct aisle access is crucial. I wont spend my money on an airline that doesn't have all direct aisle access in business class.
 
octubre299
Topic Author
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:24 pm

Re: Will KLM put New Business class on all wide bodies?

Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:49 am

I just checked KLM.com and pretended to book the entire journey and as per the website, there are still 777-300 with no new business class product but indeed all 772's are. Head scratching going on now.

The plot thickens.......
Thanks
 
Jetty
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Re: Will KLM put New Business class on all wide bodies?

Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:32 am

"The second modified aircraft, the PH-BVB, should be finished in September. Subsequently, another aircraft should be retrofitted every month. This means every 777-300ER will have the new WBC from March 2017. This is later than the original deadline which was by the end of 2016."

https://insideflyer.nl/update-klm-world ... 0er-fleet/
 
octubre299
Topic Author
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:24 pm

Re: Will KLM put New Business class on all wide bodies?

Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:04 pm

Jetty wrote:
"The second modified aircraft, the PH-BVB, should be finished in September. Subsequently, another aircraft should be retrofitted every month. This means every 777-300ER will have the new WBC from March 2017. This is later than the original deadline which was by the end of 2016."

https://insideflyer.nl/update-klm-world ... 0er-fleet/


Thank you so much for the info, and now I feel confident in using KLM for that trip.

CHeers
 
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Iemand91
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Re: Will KLM put New Business class on all wide bodies?

Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:52 pm

octubre299 wrote:
If you are 100% sure then boo boo to Seatguru and lucky for me. Thanks for the pics.

The information I have given in that comment is very specific. Why would I bother being so specific when it's untrue?

There is no 777-200ER and -300ER operating with the old WBC anymore since February 8 when the last 777 (PH-BVK) was towed into a hangar for the reconfiguration.
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
octubre299
Topic Author
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:24 pm

Re: Will KLM put New Business class on all wide bodies?

Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:37 am

Iemand91 wrote:
octubre299 wrote:
If you are 100% sure then boo boo to Seatguru and lucky for me. Thanks for the pics.

The information I have given in that comment is very specific. Why would I bother being so specific when it's untrue?

There is no 777-200ER and -300ER operating with the old WBC anymore since February 8 when the last 777 (PH-BVK) was towed into a hangar for the reconfiguration.


Sorry my friend but I am not saying it's untrue, just that as of this very moment the official KLM website still shows that at least 1 or more 777_3000's still have the old product. Maybe it's just that it takes time for the website to reflect the changes, so you may very well be right but if I were to book a flight right now in the aircraft in question, as I choose my seats, I would have to choose based on the schematics of the old product.

Just putting it from the point of view of the shopper.

Jeffrey

https://www.klm.com/travel/us_en/prepar ... -300ER.htm
 
Joost
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:27 pm

Re: Will KLM put New Business class on all wide bodies?

Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:20 pm

octubre299 wrote:
Sorry my friend but I am not saying it's untrue, just that as of this very moment the official KLM website still shows that at least 1 or more 777_3000's still have the old product. Maybe it's just that it takes time for the website to reflect the changes


It's only the seat map page that has not been updated. There is currently no flying KLM 777-300ER anymore with the old seats.

Jawaiiansky66 wrote:
Wow, what...like 5 different models now?


There are still 4 different WBC seats around. After all mods are done, the will be down to two. As the old seats are only in the Airbus, the are no business class middle seats left though.

1) The old Koito lie-flat WBC seats, to be found in the 6 oldest 330-200s (PH-AOA to PH-AOF), to be changed to the B/E Diamond (3)



2) The Recaro lie-flat WBC seats, based on the Air France NEV3, used in new deliveries after the Koito scandal. This seat is currently found on the newest two A330-200s (PH-AOM, -AON), all five A330-300s. It was installed on the 77Ws, but they have all been refitted (latest one is currently undergoing mods). All to be changed to the B/E Diamond (3)



3) The B/E Diamond full-flat seat. This one has been retrofitted into all 747s, 772s and 77Ws and they will be retrofitted into the A330s. Also, the new 77W deliveries have this seat.



4) The Zodiac Cirrus reverse herringbone, full-flat, all-aisle seat, installed in all 787s.

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