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KarelXWB
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IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:05 pm

IAG is in the market for additional A321LR aircraft that could be deployed across the entire network:

British Airways-owner IAG SA is looking at acquiring more long-range narrow-body planes in order to open up inter-continental routes where demand is insufficient to support bigger twin-aisle jets.

IAG has already ordered seven LR variants of the Airbus Group SE A321neo for trans-Atlantic services at Irish unit Aer Lingus and is evaluating plans for a wider roll-out that could see the model deployed in the U.K. with BA and at Spanish unit Iberia, Chief Executive Officer Willie Walsh said Friday.


“We’ll be looking to utilize that aircraft right across our network,” Walsh said of the A321neoLR, which is slated to enter service late next year. “There’s an opportunity to consider quite a number of destinations that we wouldn’t believe possible with the wide-body larger aircraft.”


Article
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... r-business
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RL777
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:09 pm

I definitely think we'll see one or possibly all of the airlines within the IAG group operate the A321LR in a solid role. Seems to be a perfect fit for those airlines current route network.
 
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:25 pm

Seems like a no-brainer, it would allow the different airlines to really change their game: EI can and will launch services into the USA that otherwise wouldn't support TATL service at all, BA could launch flights from the regions (MAN-JFK maybe?), IB could launch flights into Africa that may otherwise not be economical, and Vueling could easily start some longer haul services without the risk of going for a widebody (although I'm not up to date with the launch of the long-haul airline at BCN).
 
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:37 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
Seems like a no-brainer, it would allow the different airlines to really change their game: EI can and will launch services into the USA that otherwise wouldn't support TATL service at all, BA could launch flights from the regions (MAN-JFK maybe?), IB could launch flights into Africa that may otherwise not be economical, and Vueling could easily start some longer haul services without the risk of going for a widebody (although I'm not up to date with the launch of the long-haul airline at BCN).


I think there are lots of opportunities for Iberia and Aer Lingus to use the A321LR. There are cities in North America as well as some warmer destinations that could work well. Aer Lingus can grow its North America network and start to look more like Icelandair. Iberia has some opportunities as well. Due to slot constraints at LHR I am doubtful it will work for BA unless their are some leisure routes out of LGW.

I don't think something like MAN-JFK would work. BA has no hub on either end of that route. MAN-NYC is better served by a US carrier who can offer some feed in addition to O/D.
 
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:47 pm

These long range single aisles are really going to shake up the status quo, and that has to be a good thing for pax. I've done TATL on a 757 and it was fine. I'm giving serious thought to this SWF-DUB flight. It's an hour longer for me to Stewart than Newark but the price is good enough to make a long weekend in Ireland a reasonable prospect.
 
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par13del
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:51 pm

Hmmm, US carriers are the last ones to operate narrow body a/c across the pond, and we know based on A.Net experts that no self respecting European would fly on those a/c, so are we talking transfer pax on the EU side, or is the fact that the A321 is wider than the 757 going
to make the flights more comfortable?
 
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shamrock350
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:52 pm

It's about time they signed on the dotted line.

Aer Lingus themselves had been looking at this aircraft for the best part of two years, most of last year IAG were mulling it and just a few weeks ago we heard they were about to order 7 for the Irish carrier. Now it seems there's room for it at all IAG carriers.
 
StTim
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:00 pm

shamrock350 wrote:
It's about time they signed on the dotted line.

Aer Lingus themselves had been looking at this aircraft for the best part of two years, most of last year IAG were mulling it and just a few weeks ago we heard they were about to order 7 for the Irish carrier. Now it seems there's room for it at all IAG carriers.



I thought they had signed for 6 and are now looking to lessors for more.

Obviously IAG are thinking more and more that the 321LR will be a game changer.
 
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:05 pm

Bricktop wrote:
These long range single aisles are really going to shake up the status quo, and that has to be a good thing for pax. I've done TATL on a 757 and it was fine. I'm giving serious thought to this SWF-DUB flight. It's an hour longer for me to Stewart than Newark but the price is good enough to make a long weekend in Ireland a reasonable prospect.


If I were in management at British Airways or Aer Lingus, I would be worried about what Norwegian is planning on doing with narrowbodies. Norwegian has lowered yields to JFK and other US destinations with 787s. The 737 network is right in BA/EI's back yard with cities like Dublin, Cork and Edinburgh discussed to the US.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:09 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
Seems like a no-brainer, it would allow the different airlines to really change their game: EI can and will launch services into the USA that otherwise wouldn't support TATL service at all, BA could launch flights from the regions (MAN-JFK maybe?), IB could launch flights into Africa that may otherwise not be economical, and Vueling could easily start some longer haul services without the risk of going for a widebody (although I'm not up to date with the launch of the long-haul airline at BCN).


I think there are lots of opportunities for Iberia and Aer Lingus to use the A321LR. There are cities in North America as well as some warmer destinations that could work well. Aer Lingus can grow its North America network and start to look more like Icelandair. Iberia has some opportunities as well. Due to slot constraints at LHR I am doubtful it will work for BA unless their are some leisure routes out of LGW.

I don't think something like MAN-JFK would work. BA has no hub on either end of that route. MAN-NYC is better served by a US carrier who can offer some feed in addition to O/D.


It was just a suggestion. LGW doesn't seem like it would be the best use, the Caribbean is just out of range and most places that people want to travel to (from LGW) are already within A319/A320 range.
 
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:36 pm

StTim wrote:
shamrock350 wrote:
It's about time they signed on the dotted line.

Aer Lingus themselves had been looking at this aircraft for the best part of two years, most of last year IAG were mulling it and just a few weeks ago we heard they were about to order 7 for the Irish carrier. Now it seems there's room for it at all IAG carriers.



I thought they had signed for 6 and are now looking to lessors for more.

Obviously IAG are thinking more and more that the 321LR will be a game changer.

Last thread (ref: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1355569&hilit=IAG+orders+Long+Range+A321Neo%27s+for+Aer+Lingus#p19358913 ) suggested that all 7 are to be leased.
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seabosdca
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:41 pm

How interesting that the European carriers never really looked at this sort of service when the aircraft that could fly it was the 757, but now that it's the A321neo they are all interested.

If the 757 didn't work against 767s and early A330s, the A321neo will also have a hard time against 787s and A330neos.
 
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:50 pm

par13del wrote:
Hmmm, US carriers are the last ones to operate narrow body a/c across the pond, and we know based on A.Net experts that no self respecting European would fly on those a/c, so are we talking transfer pax on the EU side, or is the fact that the A321 is wider than the 757 going
to make the flights more comfortable?


Something like that!

If they want to fly from U.S. secondary (and even less prominent) cities they're going to need to go non-stop to destinations Americans want to visit: London, Paris and (seasonally) Rome. Something like PIT-Cork isn't going to cut it. With the hub model the Big 3 U.S. carriers cover all the important/volume USA-hub-Europe routings 1-stop already.
 
fcogafa
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:51 pm

I'm starting to take what Walsh says with a pinch of salt. Last year he was talking about second hand B777s and A380s. Now he says this on Flightglobal:
------------------------------
Walsh states that IAG is “not against” taking second-hand long-haul aircraft but says: “The rate of expansion of the long-haul fleet doesn’t support us doing anything right now.”

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... le-434560/
 
Varsity1
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:54 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
par13del wrote:
Hmmm, US carriers are the last ones to operate narrow body a/c across the pond, and we know based on A.Net experts that no self respecting European would fly on those a/c, so are we talking transfer pax on the EU side, or is the fact that the A321 is wider than the 757 going
to make the flights more comfortable?


Something like that!

If they want to fly from U.S. secondary (and even less prominent) cities they're going to need to go non-stop to destinations Americans want to visit: London, Paris and (seasonally) Rome. Something like PIT-Cork isn't going to cut it. With the hub model the Big 3 U.S. carriers cover all the important/volume USA-hub-Europe routings 1-stop already.


Best post in this thread.
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:22 am

seabosdca wrote:
How interesting that the European carriers never really looked at this sort of service when the aircraft that could fly it was the 757, but now that it's the A321neo they are all interested.


Well, there is this:

Chief Operating Officer-Customers John Leahy sees a Boeing 757-replacement market for the 469 Boeing aircraft still flying, plus another 500 more. “We are burning up to 30% less fuel than the 757,” said at the Airbus annual press conference in Toulouse.


Ref: http://aviationweek.com/commercial-avia ... eo-version

And if you're Norwegian and paying low-ball wages, the low fuel cost and low wages along with a lower cost aircraft makes it easy to undermine the others.

I'm confident IAG will do quite well with the A321LR.
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keesje
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:28 am

BA's current A321's equipped with Club cabins are aging.

Image
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BestWestern
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:48 am

In the same way that EI has coexisted with FR, EI will coexist with Norwegian moving forward. A low cost, long haul market isn't yet proven to be successful.
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BestWestern
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:49 am

keesje wrote:
BA's current A321's equipped with Club cabins are aging.

Image



I can only assume you are being ironic.
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VS11
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:24 am

seabosdca wrote:
How interesting that the European carriers never really looked at this sort of service when the aircraft that could fly it was the 757, but now that it's the A321neo they are all interested.

If the 757 didn't work against 767s and early A330s, the A321neo will also have a hard time against 787s and A330neos.


It has nothing to do with the Airbus being European, as you subtly suggest. The structure of international TATL flying used to be very different from what it is now. The US-EU Open Skies agreement is about 10 years or so old. Before that there used to be bilateral agreements specifying airports, frequency, capacity, pricing, etc. and B757 would not have been appropriate because it would have been small for the demand. Also, I don't think B757 was really very big with European carriers.

I remember it was Continental which started in the early to mid-2000s to deploy B757 out of Newark to mostly underserved European cities which lacked direct US flights. CO was expanding TATL flying as it was generally a less crowded and more profitable market compared to the domestic one. Delta followed CO and deployed more 757s across the Atlantic. There could have been other US carriers using the 757 heavily across the Atlantic in the 80s and 90s but I have no idea about that.

The reason for the recent popularity of narrow-bodies across the Atlantic is above and beyond Open Skies which makes it easier, cheaper and less risky to start new services in smaller markets, and the de facto standard now for customers being able to choose what to pay for. The unbundled product, in part possible due to technology and consumer electronics, is a huge step in the evolution of the TATL flying experience - customer expectations have simply changed. If Boeing were still making new B757 rest assured there would have been European carriers deploying it over the Atlantic.
 
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:46 am

VS11 wrote:
I remember it was Continental which started in the early to mid-2000s to deploy B757 out of Newark to mostly underserved European cities which lacked direct US flights. CO was expanding TATL flying as it was generally a less crowded and more profitable market compared to the domestic one. Delta followed CO and deployed more 757s across the Atlantic. There could have been other US carriers using the 757 heavily across the Atlantic in the 80s and 90s but I have no idea about that.

Actually, BA itself was one of the first airlines to schedule the 752 over the Atlantic, years before CO ever tried it. And from BHX, at that.


seabosdca wrote:
If the 757 didn't work against 767s and early A330s,

How did it "not work" when it's been (and still is) flying TATL routes for nearly 3 decades?
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LTenEleven
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:49 am

fcogafa wrote:
I'm starting to take what Walsh says with a pinch of salt. Last year he was talking about second hand B777s and A380s. Now he says this on Flightglobal:
------------------------------
Walsh states that IAG is “not against” taking second-hand long-haul aircraft but says: “The rate of expansion of the long-haul fleet doesn’t support us doing anything right now.”

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... le-434560/


Willy Walsh has learned from the Ryanair school of communication.
 
Andy33
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:57 am

RL777 wrote:
I definitely think we'll see one or possibly all of the airlines within the IAG group operate the A321LR in a solid role. Seems to be a perfect fit for those airlines current route network.

That's a guaranteed accurate prediction,since IAG ordered 7 A321LR for Aer Lingus earlier this month.

Newbiepilot wrote:
I don't think something like MAN-JFK would work. BA has no hub on either end of that route. MAN-NYC is better served by a US carrier who can offer some feed in addition to O/D.

But BA and AA have a transatlantic Joint Venture, and that means BA does have a hub at JFK, simply that all the US domestic flights have "American" painted on the side of the planes. In the same way AA has a hub at LHR. If you look almost every AA flight out of JFK has a BA codeshare flight number.

par13del wrote:
Hmmm, US carriers are the last ones to operate narrow body a/c across the pond


Er, BA Openskies flying out of Paris with 757s?
Aer Lingus with 757s?
StTim wrote:
I thought they had signed for 6 and are now looking to lessors for more.


IAG has something like 120 A320 series options and rolling options available to exercise. If they're looking to lessors it will be to secure earlier delivery.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... aer-lingus
BestWestern wrote:
keesje wrote:
BA's current A321's equipped with Club cabins are aging.

Image



I can only assume you are being ironic.

The airframes are between 8 and 15 years old. Completely refitted internally 2012/13. But not a great commercial success. One has already been converted back to shorthaul config, and another is undergoing this right now. There only ever were 7 in this "mid-haul" config.
 
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:08 am

For BA, 5 is pretty small for a subfleet of mid-haul A321's, but their dilemma is what to replace them with into places like BEY and AMM; even a 788 is probably too large. So, a fleet of around 10 A321LR's would enable them to replace the existing mid-haul fleet and expand into new markets. FWIW, I do see them operating out of LHR, more so than the regions, to places like CMH, CLE or even BUF.
 
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hispanola
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:31 am

I believe that EI is responsible for starting this conversation at IAG. As shamrock350 said, they've been studying this aircraft for quite some time.

IB could use them on African routes that had previously been run using 757s. TLV might be able to take an A321LR since IB's always switching between A330s and A319s to fly there. North America is another possibility. PHL and YYZ had been investigated a few years ago as part of Iberia's long-haul expansion plans, and IAD could be re-launched. They had served IAD before the economic crisis, but the A340 proved too much capacity to turn a profit.
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:23 am

Is Air France looking to use A321lr's in the same way as IAG?
 
pabloeing
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:35 am

¿From MAD an A321LR can arrive to USA?
 
nascar1
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:14 am

pabloeing wrote:
¿From MAD an A321LR can arrive to USA?



United sometimes flies w/ 757 between EWR and MAD. Airbus said 321LR will have more range than a current 757 so theorically yes and i think even from BCN. United and AA flew years ago from there.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:59 am

Back in the 7E7 and early 787 days Boeing claimed that the 787 would allow new point to point routes. Of course the 787 is too large, too heavy and too expensive for new p2p routes. the 787 is being used for point-to-hub routes and doing this role very well. The A321LR/MOM will be the real aircraft for p2p routes - we're seeing this already with Norwegian using MAX-8 aircraft between the US North East and UK/Ireland.

IAG is a huge player over the atlantic, with market leading presence in both the south and north atlantic and strong JV's with North and South American airlines. Its interest in protecting "its" market is obvious. Equally IAG is weak into Asia and Africa. The A321LR could help in Africa and the Middle East, from MAD and LHR. It wouldn't be a "waste" of an LHR slot. Each A321LR would use one, or at most two slot pairs each a day - so a fleet of 10 might only need 15 or so slots, if serving the middle east/Africa. BA have doubled their DUB operation from 4 to 8 daily in 5 years - they have slots, if a suitable opportunity arises.
 
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:00 pm

nascar1 wrote:
pabloeing wrote:
¿From MAD an A321LR can arrive to USA?



United sometimes flies w/ 757 between EWR and MAD. Airbus said 321LR will have more range than a current 757 so theorically yes and i think even from BCN. United and AA flew years ago from there.


Though MAD is at over 2000ft and can get pretty hot during the summer. This might prevent year round operations.
If this is however no problem with MAD runway 18R/36L at 4350nm, this might be some of the possibilities (3500nm):
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hinckley
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:13 pm

As stated above, the A321LR and (maybe, eventually) a B-MOM aircraft will be a game changer. But they're also proof of the ascendancy of the fragmented, hub-flyover business model. It's what Boeing predicted years ago any why the market for aircraft like the 748 and A388 will be nothing more than a niche - imo.
 
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:58 pm

fcogafa wrote:
I'm starting to take what Walsh says with a pinch of salt. Last year he was talking about second hand B777s and A380s. Now he says this on Flightglobal:
------------------------------
Walsh states that IAG is “not against” taking second-hand long-haul aircraft but says: “The rate of expansion of the long-haul fleet doesn’t support us doing anything right now.”

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... le-434560/


I think that's a bit unfair. WW first expressed an interest in second hand A380s and 777s before the EU referendum result which has now cost BA over €400m due to the fall in Sterling.

Had the referendum result been different I'm sure BA's growth rate for 2017 been well above 1.5%.
 
Armodeen
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:29 pm

It isn't just TATL that they could be used on of course (secondary middle east destinations stand out for me). I too see a fleet of around 10 at BA.
 
LupineChemist
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:13 am

pabloeing wrote:
¿From MAD an A321LR can arrive to USA?


UA uses a 757 between IAD and MAD.

I don't think it can make it to MIA, which is the second biggest market from Spain after NYC.
 
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keesje
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:30 am

hinckley wrote:
As stated above, the A321LR and (maybe, eventually) a B-MOM aircraft will be a game changer. But they're also proof of the ascendancy of the fragmented, hub-flyover business model. It's what Boeing predicted years ago any why the market for aircraft like the 748 and A388 will be nothing more than a niche - imo.


The biggest long haul market is probably Europe-Asia, traditionally flown by the European and Asian legacy carriers.
Someone put a big Hub with ton of A380s and 777s in the middle and became the biggest. (3 hubs actually) .

Exactly what Boeing predicted I guess.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:01 pm

I think IAG is going to have to react fast to Norwegian. Norwegian is now selling tickets from Edinburgh, Belfast, Cork, Shannon and Dublin to the United States. I believe all these routes start within 12 months. This is a full scale attack on Aer Lingus with round trip fares at about $600 or so. Providence, Hartford and Newburgh aren't the same as Aer Lingus serves with Boston and JFK, but there will be fare pressure and increased competition.

Can Aer Lingus compete on cost with Norwegian? The A321LR is probably the right airplane for them, but Norwegian is a real low cost carrier compared to Aer Lingus which is not a low cost carrier in the Transatlantic market. Would Aer Lingus try to compete with two class A321s or go low cost all economy?
 
hinckley
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:26 pm

keesje wrote:
The biggest long haul market is probably Europe-Asia, traditionally flown by the European and Asian legacy carriers.
Someone put a big Hub with ton of A380s and 777s in the middle and became the biggest. (3 hubs actually) .

Exactly what Boeing predicted I guess.


Mine wasn't a A vs B comment as the fragmentation of the market effects VLA offerings from both companies. btw, TATL is by far the largest inter-continental market, and like Europe-Asia and TPAC, it's served by a relative handful of A380s and 744s/748s. And yes, a fragmented market is what Boeing predicted.
 
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:55 pm

Willie Walsh was quoted as saying, at a Glasgow Chamber of Commerce meeting a few years, that with the arrival of more fuel efficient planes (referring to the 787) BA were bound to re-examine the possibility of starting regional long haul transatlantic routes again, as they had done before in the early 90's from GLA, MAN etc to the likes of JFK. With an A321LR order on the cards and ever increasing competition from Norwegian, you might think that would be becoming more of a priority ? GLA could be a good place to start given that Norwegian have just announced 737 services across the pond from nearby EDI.
 
A310neo
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:42 pm

Might BA also take on Air Transat and Rouge on UK regions to Toronto with the 321LR? I assume that regions to New York would be 1st priority.
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:23 pm

A310neo wrote:
Might BA also take on Air Transat and Rouge on UK regions to Toronto with the 321LR? I assume that regions to New York would be 1st priority.


Probably.So far I can only see Toronto,JFK
and possibly Chicago from other U.K. Regions. If this does happen I can see these following routes.
Birmingham-New York JFK
Glasgow-New York JFK,Toronto
Manchester-Chicago,New York JFK,Toronto
I don't see any routes from Belfast and
Edinburgh because of Norwegian.
Also
Newcastle and Bristol could to New York and Toronto (I know both used to serve New York with a B752 by United however 321 neo LR is more Fuel efficient and that will be a big factor.I don't know about Bristol but apparently both New York and Toronto can work from Newcastle according to a newspaper which the transport for north said so)
Someone did say above about BA doing this but I am not 100% sure.Plus there Is the fact of Brexit.When is the A321 NEO LR coming into service? Due to Brexit anyway these probably won't start until 2020.
What do you guys think?
 
LHRFlyer
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:53 pm

Transatlantic is the absolute lifeblood of BA. If they feel they need to respond to new routes from UK regions, they will do, just as they have with Norwegian at LGW.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:17 pm

seabosdca wrote:
How interesting that the European carriers never really looked at this sort of service when the aircraft that could fly it was the 757, but now that it's the A321neo they are all interested.


Your fanboy-ism knows no limits, huh.....?
@DadCelo
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:20 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
It was just a suggestion. LGW doesn't seem like it would be the best use, the Caribbean is just out of range and most places that people want to travel to (from LGW) are already within A319/A320 range.


With a refueling stop in the Azores the Caribbean are perfectly within range of the A321LR. This might give airlines from Europe the opportunity to serve some smaller Caribbean destinations and make it a viable alternative for a holiday in the Mediterranean (which is too cold in the winter). I can definitely see one or another airline start a hub in the Azores with this aircraft and connect passengers between Europe and the Caribbean. Maybe an idea for Norwegian once they get theirs.
 
SelseyBill
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:46 am

Armodeen wrote:
It isn't just TATL that they could be used on of course (secondary middle east destinations stand out for me). I too see a fleet of around 10 at BA.


One of the attractions for BA/IAG with the A321LR is also its fleet flexibility.
Its easy to imagine a A321LR doing a TATL round trip, and then a Euro/UK round trip in a 24 hour block, potentially transforming fleet economics.

seabosdca wrote:
How interesting that the European carriers never really looked at this sort of service when the aircraft that could fly it was the 757, but now that it's the A321neo they are all interested.


That has to be one of the most uninformed comments I've ever witnessed on these pages; and believe me; that is a fairly big list.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:52 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
It was just a suggestion. LGW doesn't seem like it would be the best use, the Caribbean is just out of range and most places that people want to travel to (from LGW) are already within A319/A320 range.


With a refueling stop in the Azores the Caribbean are perfectly within range of the A321LR. This might give airlines from Europe the opportunity to serve some smaller Caribbean destinations and make it a viable alternative for a holiday in the Mediterranean (which is too cold in the winter). I can definitely see one or another airline start a hub in the Azores with this aircraft and connect passengers between Europe and the Caribbean. Maybe an idea for Norwegian once they get theirs.


This is certainly the case for Caribbean destinations currently served on a one-stop basis from LGW or not at all from regional airports, MAN etc
 
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garpd
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:24 am

I've flown trans-atlantic on the 757 several times. With Monarch and with Continental. Nothing wrong with it at all. The argument that a twin aisle is more comfortable is disengenius at best. Every wideboady flight I have taken, both aisles are ALWAYS being blocked by selfish passengers using it as their own exercise yard or a catering trolley or both. There is no "if one aisle is blocked, you just use the other" as the trolleys come down both.

For me there was no appreciable difference between flying a 757 and a 767 or 777 across the atlantic, except for how many PAX I had to wait for to sort themselves out on boarding and deboarding before I could get past them on a 757, less pax = less time to get on and off.

As for stipulations that airlines did not use the 757 when it was relatively young for this sort of mission: Rubbish. It just wasn't as widespread as it is now. UK Charter airlines we sending 757s to Orlando in the 90s, long before CO or AA ever cottoned on to the idea of sending theirs to the UK.

As for what aircraft to use for such a mission. I'm scratching my head on that. The 757 is ideal in payload and range. But it's aging so won't be the choice for BA, especially now they've gotten rid of their fleet.
The A321neoLR might be able to do it, but I'm still not convinced it can match the payload AND range of the 757. Time will tell of course.

Can BA/IAG wait for the Boeing/Airbus MOM aircraft?
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User001
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:31 am

I don't think something like MAN-JFK would work. BA has no hub on either end of that route. MAN-NYC is better served by a US carrier who can offer some feed in addition to O/D.


Firstly, as said, BA does have plenty of connections at the JFK end, and with the rise of Cityflyer at Manchester, could build up 'some' connections at MAN (yes Cityflyer is only a weekend base at the moment but has already been increased to pretty much year round and who knows where it could lead). BA could also use some connections via other carriers at MAN, such as Finnair, Iberia Express, Vueling, Aer Lingus and even the likes of Flybe who like to codeshare with anyone and everyone.

Secondly, a hub isn't necisarily needed to make a MAN-JFK to fruition. Thomas Cook is really stealing the March on MAN-JFK, with near 98% loads, increasing to year round and looking to bring a business class product to the route. They have no hub at either end other than codeshares, and with 95-98% loads on a daily A330, doesn't seem to be holding them back!

BA could even want to fight Thomas Cook off in the same way they are fighting Norwegian, after all, the majority of MAN-LHR passengers are connecting, so, the more people who fly MAN-USA direct, the more it could hurt BA and 'force' them to act. With TCX operating direct routes to JFK/MIA/LAX/LAS/SFO and BOS from MAN, I refuse to believe it hasn't made ANY impact on the numbers using BA from MAN via LHR.

Lastly, BA/AA are in a JV, so while it doesn't matter who of the 2 operates MAN-JFK, with MAN being a predominantly outbound market, the BA brand may well be better known and desired.
 
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hispanola
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:20 pm

garpd wrote:
UK Charter airlines we sending 757s to Orlando in the 90s, long before CO or AA ever cottoned on to the idea of sending theirs to the UK.


I'm certain that American was sending 757s to MAN in the 90s as well. It may be that the English were the first to do it, but AA wasn't so late.
✈️
 
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garpd
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:29 pm

You know, I think you're right!
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Polot
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Re: IAG mulls more long-range narrow-body aircraft

Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:33 pm

CO and TWA both flew TATL with the 757 in the 90s as well.

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