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KarelXWB
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PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:32 pm

PIA staff issued additional handwritten boarding passes.

Pakistan International Airlines is investigating how seven extra passengers were allowed stand in the aisles on a flight to Saudi Arabia, a spokesman told the BBC.

The passengers were boarded on the 20 January flight to Medina despite every seat being filled, the airline said.


Source
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39081476

Just imagine if there was an emergency... an investigation has been launched.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
aviationjunky
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:36 pm

As a passenger on the plane, I would've complained the day of the flight! How did it take them a month to start any type of investigation?
LAS is Life
 
Bricktop
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Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:40 pm

Apart from the fact that the BBC shows pictures of a PIA crash which I think is unfair, they say "The flight in question went from Karachi to Medina carrying a total of 416 passengers, on a Boeing 707 with a total seating capacity of 409, including staff seats." Probably a typo, but how about a little fact-checking? OTOH, hey PIA, it's an airplane not a bus in Karachi!
 
aklrno
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:09 pm

Maybe they can add hand holds on the wings like in the original Flight of the Phoenix. Or seating on the roof. The old Western Airlines TV ads had one seat leaning against the tail for the bird. He said it was the only way to fly.
 
traindoc
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:27 pm

In 1995 I flew from Minsk to Tel Aviv on Belavia. Belavia was carved out of Aeroflot and flew the TU 154. I remember that there was a missing row of seats which had been replaced by folding chairs! That was my first and last flight on a 3rd world airline! The more things change, the more they stay the same.
 
GRIVely
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:36 pm

In the 1980's when I was posted in China the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) were the sole non-military operator in the country. Their pilots were all PLAAF officers and their aircraft were elderly and sketchily maintained Soviet aircraft. Flights were very infrequent at even major regional airports and often cancelled when some government official decided he needed to go somewhere. There were usually more passengers than seats so people were often given folding chairs to carry on the aircraft. When western passengers complained, they were just kicked off the plane and someone else took their place. Most of us just sucked it up because if you complained you got to wait weeks for the next flight that wasn't overbooked. Flight attendants told you to hang onto the seats next to you.
 
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vhtje
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:56 am

Qantas - the doyen of airline safety - in 1974 jammed 673 people into a 747-238B, evacuating people from Darwin following cyclone Tracy.

You cannot tell me that they all has seats...

http://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/h ... /global/en
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
bennett123
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:22 am

Was PIA flying people away from some natural disaster. :)
 
ChrisFallon77
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:02 am

Is it possible the extra passengers flew to Saudi Arabia in the style of Clay Lacy 'the human fly'? ;)
 
airtechy
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:09 am

I'm sure any airline in the world would violate any safety requirement in an emergency if the alternative would absolutely result in people dying. Save first and argue later.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:10 am

GRIVely wrote:
In the 1980's when I was posted in China the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) were the sole non-military operator in the country. Their pilots were all PLAAF officers and their aircraft were elderly and sketchily maintained Soviet aircraft.


Where were the A310, 707, 737-200, 747SP, 747-200, 757, DC-9-80, BAE146 and Trident?
 
Planesmart
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:24 am

bennett123 wrote:
Was PIA flying people away from some natural disaster. :)

More likely flying towards a potential one.

And some of these countries query why funding margins on aircraft purchases and leases are a bit wider, and include a category 'other', which could probably be less tactfully described as stupid or reckless.
 
KiloRomeoDelta
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:45 am

Meanwhile RyanAir is taking notes. Hmmm cost of adding subway train style grab handles in aisle vs extra revenue from taking about 20 standing room passengers...
 
anplatinum
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:21 am

Qantas - the doyen of airline safety - in 1974 jammed 673 people into a 747-238B, evacuating people from Darwin following cyclone Tracy.

You cannot tell me that they all has seats..


I had a relative on that flight. Almost all the passengers were women and children. Everyone had a child on their lap.
She said that the Qantas crew were fantastic.
 
Ammad
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:51 am

Two things needs to be clarified here:

Flight was 100% full and none of the Revenue Pax were given duplicate/extra seat.
Issue raises due to extra Authorization by Captain for Jump seats. There were 16 Jumps seats for regular crew in 777-340ER and Captain authorized 7 extra seats and his ask was not ignored by Ticketing staff thus cause this Situation.
 
outbackair
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:01 pm

Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:41 am

Many years ago (early 1980s) I flew an Air Botswana HS(BAe) 748 from Gaborone to JNB. The male cabin crew member sat on the toilet at the back for take off and landing due to overbooking. I believe it did have a lap belt though, so maybe it was a standard 'extra' seat.
 
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OA940
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:52 am

Aviation at its finest...
A350/CSeries = bae
 
gzm
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:07 am

outbackair wrote:
I believe it did have a lap belt though, so maybe it was a standard 'extra' seat.

"For your comfort and convenience..." Ahh,that's the beauty of aviation: testing the limits of resourcefulness. Many years ago,in mid seventies, I also heard a similar story about an Aviogenex flight (TU-134): the plane,departing from Hellenikon, had one standing passenger. I didn't believe it!
On another occasion,on OA this time, the captain allowed seven no-seat passengers on a 737-400."Where were they seated?" we wondered.The plane took most of the runway but managed to lift off...
 
rebr
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:03 am

outbackair wrote:
Many years ago (early 1980s) I flew an Air Botswana HS(BAe) 748 from Gaborone to JNB.

748??
 
outbackair
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:49 am

rebr wrote:
outbackair wrote:
Many years ago (early 1980s) I flew an Air Botswana HS(BAe) 748 from Gaborone to JNB.

748??


Yes, a REAL 748, not a Boeing one. Made by Hawker Siddeley / British Aerospace. Maybe do a quick search on an aviation website... say A.net, rather than implying I've got it wrong? There is life beyond big jets and Seattle. Was a great plane, and a success for British aviation industry.
 
gzm
Posts: 364
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:58 am

If you go to "search" and write "Air Botswana HS 748" you will see a picture of your plane. (I cannot put a link)
 
diverted
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:30 pm

outbackair wrote:
rebr wrote:
outbackair wrote:
Many years ago (early 1980s) I flew an Air Botswana HS(BAe) 748 from Gaborone to JNB.

748??


Yes, a REAL 748, not a Boeing one. Made by Hawker Siddeley / British Aerospace. Maybe do a quick search on an aviation website... say A.net, rather than implying I've got it wrong? There is life beyond big jets and Seattle. Was a great plane, and a success for British aviation industry.


Yeppers. As far as I can tell about half the active frames are in Northern Canada. Operated by 4N (2) YN (2) 3H (1 freighter) and I believe MO had/has a few. WT might also have some. Not really sure to be honest, some of those operators may have retired them by now. 7F used o have a decent sized fleet of them as well, which were replaced by ATR42 combis. Believe 4N is going the same route.
 
raylee67
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:18 pm

Load Factor of 101.7%. Nice. The other airlines can only dream about this.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI LX
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
outbackair
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:31 pm

gzm wrote:
If you go to "search" and write "Air Botswana HS 748" you will see a picture of your plane. (I cannot put a link)


This photo doesn't do justice to the beautiful colour-scheme on this aircraft.

 
sanjet
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:58 am

Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:41 pm

That's one way of losing your air operator certificate or safety rating to fly into other countries!
Will Fly For Food!
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3892
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:34 pm

Yikes...events like this help explain why the locals much prefer the ME3 over PIA...
 
Ammad
Posts: 333
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:56 pm

sanjet wrote:
That's one way of losing your air operator certificate or safety rating to fly into other countries!


Or Pilot in command, if found guilty of this situation needs to be terminated.
 
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ro1960
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:13 pm

In 1988 I flew a PIA 747 CDG-JFK-CDG. No standing passengers but a lot of bags and boxes piled up by the doors area.
You may like my airport photos:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/aeroports
 
aircatalonia
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:10 pm

They were going to Mecca... After landing they probably crammed them all into a single bus which was 100x more dangerous than the flight.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:43 am

Crowded transport is part of our South Asian culture.

White peepuls just dont get it!

Image
Mr.Kapoor's favorite poodle!
 
GBNWB
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:34 pm

A PIA 777 departed LHR a few weeks ago with a completely fictional loadsheet, a load of unacompanied bags and passengers in the flightdeck.

This outfit should not be flying to the UK, it is a disaster waiting to happen. The only PIA flight that should be allowed into the UK is the one operated by Sri Lankan.
 
Cunard
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:51 pm

'The only PIA flight that should be allowed into the UK is the one operated by Sri Lankan'

Can you inform us about the one operated by Sri Lankan!

Sri Lankan fly Colombo to LHR not Pakistan.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
TC957
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:15 pm

Sri Lankan have wet-leased two A330-300's to PIA and they are used on LHR services.
 
Cunard
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:48 pm

Yes I am aware of that but there not Sri Lankan flights as GBNWB states as in 'operated by Sri Lankan'.

They are two A330-300 aircraft 'wet leased' from Sri Lankan and 'operated' by PIA not Sri Lankan!

So it's correct to say that Sri Lankan don't operate flights into LHR on behalf of PIA.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
nitepilot79
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:26 pm

Kind of related... Ciudad Guatemala to Tikal routes' seating (early '90s) was fairly free-form as far as pax capacity and placement of pax went. Obviously not the safest way to fly, but as long as you "make it" it's fun to be on the edge of the envelope.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:45 pm

vhtje wrote:
Qantas - the doyen of airline safety - in 1974 jammed 673 people into a 747-238B, evacuating people from Darwin following cyclone Tracy.

You cannot tell me that they all has seats...

http://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/h ... /global/en

This has been done before in emergency evacuations. I have been on flights where 4 people were strapped into three seats and one person sat on the floor at their feet. There were even a few sitting on the floor of the coat closet.

In a time of national emergency the rules go right out the window.

I worked a DC-8-62 from Saigon to Guam with over 300 children on it, just ahead of the fall of the city in 1975. Ya do what you gotta do to save lives.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
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jsnww81
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:14 pm

vhtje wrote:
Qantas - the doyen of airline safety - in 1974 jammed 673 people into a 747-238B, evacuating people from Darwin following cyclone Tracy.

You cannot tell me that they all has seats...

http://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/h ... /global/en


This was after Cyclone Tracy and somewhere between one-third and one-half of the passengers on the 747 were lap infants. The military evacuated women and children first in the days after the cyclone. In a book about the cyclone, it was reported that all flights in the days after the storm went out with an infant on each lap, effectively doubling each plane's passenger count.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:21 pm

Cunard wrote:
Yes I am aware of that but there not Sri Lankan flights as GBNWB states as in 'operated by Sri Lankan'.

They are two A330-300 aircraft 'wet leased' from Sri Lankan and 'operated' by PIA not Sri Lankan!

So it's correct to say that Sri Lankan don't operate flights into LHR on behalf of PIA.


The wet-lease uses Sri Lankan's planes, crews and insurance, so it is a Sri Lankan flight in all but name...
 
infinit
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:58 am

KarelXWB wrote:
PIA staff issued additional handwritten boarding passes.

Pakistan International Airlines is investigating how seven extra passengers were allowed stand in the aisles on a flight to Saudi Arabia, a spokesman told the BBC.

The passengers were boarded on the 20 January flight to Medina despite every seat being filled, the airline said.


Source
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39081476

Just imagine if there was an emergency... an investigation has been launched.


Airbus should spoof this incident for an ad for the A380 :p
 
Ammad
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:30 am

Cunard wrote:
'The only PIA flight that should be allowed into the UK is the one operated by Sri Lankan'

Can you inform us about the one operated by Sri Lankan!

Sri Lankan fly Colombo to LHR not Pakistan.


This info is outdated. PIA is done with Wet lease of Srilankan and now flying her own 777 to and from UK

http://www.sundaytimes.lk/170212/busine ... 27878.html

http://www.historyofpia.com/forums/view ... &start=405
 
69bug
Posts: 160
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:17 am

Overloading of aircraft.

Having standing pax on board is unusual. What I have seen before is downgrading children over the age of 2 years (and require seats) to that of an infant (who sit on their mums laps). You can get a lot of additional people on board that way.

bug
 
gzm
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:09 pm

The close-out dept. used to do that (turning children into INF),frequently at OA. The trick is you empty a seat but you won't get your money back.It was something the Station Control didn't like at all.Sometimes,they did it with grown-ups under pressure,especially if the person belonged to OA("they turned him into a baby,ha!") A captain knows the weight limitations on his aircraft.For example, he can choose to leave the mail out if need be. Seven extra passengers (standing or not) is like breadcrumps for such an airplane with so strong engines.
 
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mafaky
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:19 pm

It's a shame that they haven't started selling out the space on the cockpit crew rest area as well as the cabin crew rest deck!... :lol:
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
WIederling
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:55 pm

vhtje wrote:
Qantas - the doyen of airline safety - in 1974 jammed 673 people into a 747-238B, evacuating people from Darwin following cyclone Tracy.

You cannot tell me that they all has seats...

http://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/h ... /global/en


El Al once evacuated more than 1000 pax on the 747, baby shit running in the gutters.
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/wor ... -aircraft/
Murphy is an optimist
 
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vhtje
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Re: PIA admits taking extra passengers in aisle

Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:35 pm

DTWPurserBoy wrote:
I worked a DC-8-62 from Saigon to Guam with over 300 children on it, just ahead of the fall of the city in 1975. Ya do what you gotta do to save lives.


You, sir, based on this, and other posts of yours I have enjoyed reading over the years, have had some dramatic, varied and generally incredibly amazing trips in your long flying career. My hat is tipped towards you.

Perhaps we might see a book from you one day...?
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.

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