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jmt18325
Posts: 147
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:29 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
DakotaFlyer wrote:
I live near GFK, but really enjoy flying YWG. The terminal is nice, easy to navigate, and offers so many years more options thend my local airport. Sometimes it is even cheaper to fly from Winnipeg then GFK or FAR aftet the exchange rate conversation.

For every person that goes to YWG I bet 5 come down here. Sometimes when parking at GFK one could think they made a wrong turn and ended up in Manitoba.


Much less so now with the exchange rate.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:43 pm

jmt18325 wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
DakotaFlyer wrote:
I live near GFK, but really enjoy flying YWG. The terminal is nice, easy to navigate, and offers so many years more options thend my local airport. Sometimes it is even cheaper to fly from Winnipeg then GFK or FAR aftet the exchange rate conversation.

For every person that goes to YWG I bet 5 come down here. Sometimes when parking at GFK one could think they made a wrong turn and ended up in Manitoba.


Much less so now with the exchange rate.

Not really, G4 still pulls a ton of Canadians
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
rookie00
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:07 pm

I think in the short term (1-3 years) YWG could possibly see:

- Possible flight to KEF
- Porter and Rouge(If they can expand their fleet past 50) entering the market
- New Sun Destinations
 
jmt18325
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:56 am

jetblueguy22 wrote:
Not really, G4 still pulls a ton of Canadians


I realize, but it's still bound to be a less than it was just two years ago even. If you look at the statistics for GFK, you can see that passengeres were actually down 10% for 2016 over 2015, and are down about 5% for Jaunary 2017 vs January 2016.
 
jmt18325
Posts: 147
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:59 am

rookie00 wrote:
I think in the short term (1-3 years) YWG could possibly see:

- Possible flight to KEF
- Porter and Rouge(If they can expand their fleet past 50) entering the market
- New Sun Destinations


I don't really see Rouge expanding beyond the hubs.
 
kavok
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:17 am

I just can't see DL expanding beyond MSP. SEA and SLC would be too thin, and DTW, JFK, and ATL all would be overflying MSP (among other reasons).
 
rookie00
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:34 am

kavok wrote:
I just can't see DL expanding beyond MSP. SEA and SLC would be too thin, and DTW, JFK, and ATL all would be overflying MSP (among other reasons).


SEA would probably have enough demand for at least a daily e175. Delta has 4 daily flights to YWG from MSP 1 of which is a A319, Not everyone flying to MSP are staying in MSP. SEA could be used as a pacific gateway like YVR which opens up more connections to leisure and business minded people.
 
edmountain
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:28 am

I don't know what it is about Manila that inspires the most absurd rumours and speculation. A couple of years ago there was a crazy rumor about MNL-YEG. "It's a certainty!" they said. Well guess what happened? Nothing.

Better to temper your aspirations, hope that YWG-LGW can at least sustain the 10 flights scheduled in 2017 and maybe grow it a little in 2018.
 
jmt18325
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:43 am

kavok wrote:
I just can't see DL expanding beyond MSP. SEA and SLC would be too thin, and DTW, JFK, and ATL all would be overflying MSP (among other reasons).


I agree with you. At one time, they had 6 flights per day to MSP from Winnipeg (albeit on 50 seat jets) There are some days (like today) that now have 2 mainline jets and two regional jets. You're far more likely to see more capacity and frequency from Delta than another destination. All in all, we'll be lucky to keep the transborder traffic that we have. ORD went from 4-5 flights a day (on 50 seaters) to 2-3 (on 50-70 seaters) and DEN went from 2 CR7s per day most days to 1 CRJ (2 in the summer).
 
yeginleduc
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:40 am

I think if YWG offered enough incentives to Icelandair then they would consider service once they have the space and availability in KEF. Same goes for DL and AS in SEA. Its probably a bit long and thin and maybe SLC would make a bit more sense from YWG for DL.

AA cut DFW from YEG so not sure they would be looking at YWG at the moment. Maybe PHX if there is enough snowbirds. Does WS operate YWG-PHX year-round?

As for domestic carriers maybe the C-Series will help but if they couldn't make it work with the E90 or 736 then filling a C-Series to places like YQB and YYJ will be a stretch.

Best thing for YWG at the moment would be for Porter to setup a scissor hub in YWG to reach some of the bigger western destinations. Im sure there are some people in western Canada would avoid YYZ and go strait into YTZ with a short stopover in YWG but thats even a stretch on the Q400.

Anyways. we can all dream...
 
jmt18325
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:52 am

The C series will have much better economics than either of those aircraft. Air Canada isn't going to do it though. Those destinations are on the other side of their major hubs. If they were going to do it, they could do it right now with a CR9.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:43 pm

yeginleduc wrote:
I think if YWG offered enough incentives to Icelandair then they would consider service once they have the space and availability in KEF. Same goes for DL and AS in SEA. Its probably a bit long and thin and maybe SLC would make a bit more sense from YWG for DL.

AA cut DFW from YEG so not sure they would be looking at YWG at the moment. Maybe PHX if there is enough snowbirds. Does WS operate YWG-PHX year-round?

As for domestic carriers maybe the C-Series will help but if they couldn't make it work with the E90 or 736 then filling a C-Series to places like YQB and YYJ will be a stretch.

Best thing for YWG at the moment would be for Porter to setup a scissor hub in YWG to reach some of the bigger western destinations. Im sure there are some people in western Canada would avoid YYZ and go strait into YTZ with a short stopover in YWG but thats even a stretch on the Q400.

Anyways. we can all dream...


There's no way AA will add YWG-PHX with their codeshare partner in WS already flying the route. Apart from the obvious sun routes that always have potential, personally, I think YWG-KEF and YWG-YYJ (summer-seaonal) are the most likely routes to eventually happen. YWG-YYJ is a WS-type of route. They're increasing YWG-YLW frequencies, which is a similar market to YYJ. If the Canadian $ ever rebounds, I hope US carriers start adding back capacity/introducing new routes to cities outside of Canada's big 4 airports. Maybe the new YOW-LGA is the first sign of that happening.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:26 pm

yeginleduc wrote:

Best thing for YWG at the moment would be for Porter to setup a scissor hub in YWG to reach some of the bigger western destinations. Im sure there are some people in western Canada would avoid YYZ and go strait into YTZ with a short stopover in YWG but thats even a stretch on the Q400.

Anyways. we can all dream...


Like you said, it's not optimal on the Q400. And scissor hubs aren't really ideal, especially in a domestic market where the competition already has tons of non stops. With the new rail link at YYZ, you're at Union station in 25 minutes. So flying non stop YYC-YYZ seems like a better option compared to a potential one stop YYC-YWG-YTZ on PD.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
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aerolimani
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:26 pm

ACDC8 wrote:
rookie00 wrote:
Winnipeg has about 60k Filipinos living in the city. Surely that could support a few weekly flights.

I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect with this, but shouldn't it be pretty obvious that if it could support a few weekly flights then there would be? I mean, airlines are after one thing - money - if there were money there then they would be there.

Every time someone starts a thread about possible new routes for their hometown airport, someone else always makes this comment. If the airlines thought this way, there would never be any new flights. Not so long ago, I started a thread suggesting Aeromexico should restart the former Mexicana route between YYC and MEX. I got a lot of people telling me it would never happen and that if it was a good idea, somebody would already be doing it. And yet, less than a year after I posted about it, AM is starting a daily flight as of June 1.
 
rookie00
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:03 am

Dominion301 wrote:
yeginleduc wrote:
I think if YWG offered enough incentives to Icelandair then they would consider service once they have the space and availability in KEF. Same goes for DL and AS in SEA. Its probably a bit long and thin and maybe SLC would make a bit more sense from YWG for DL.

AA cut DFW from YEG so not sure they would be looking at YWG at the moment. Maybe PHX if there is enough snowbirds. Does WS operate YWG-PHX year-round?

As for domestic carriers maybe the C-Series will help but if they couldn't make it work with the E90 or 736 then filling a C-Series to places like YQB and YYJ will be a stretch.

Best thing for YWG at the moment would be for Porter to setup a scissor hub in YWG to reach some of the bigger western destinations. Im sure there are some people in western Canada would avoid YYZ and go strait into YTZ with a short stopover in YWG but thats even a stretch on the Q400.

Anyways. we can all dream...


There's no way AA will add YWG-PHX with their codeshare partner in WS already flying the route. Apart from the obvious sun routes that always have potential, personally, I think YWG-KEF and YWG-YYJ (summer-seaonal) are the most likely routes to eventually happen. YWG-YYJ is a WS-type of route. They're increasing YWG-YLW frequencies, which is a similar market to YYJ. If the Canadian $ ever rebounds, I hope US carriers start adding back capacity/introducing new routes to cities outside of Canada's big 4 airports. Maybe the new YOW-LGA is the first sign of that happening.


That isn't necessarily true. An example being Edmonton. Edmonton has a seasonal American Eagle flight to Sky Harbour along with Westjet servicing Sky Harbour and Mesa-Gateway. So looking at codeshare partners doesn't always work.

aerolimani wrote:
ACDC8 wrote:
rookie00 wrote:
Winnipeg has about 60k Filipinos living in the city. Surely that could support a few weekly flights.

I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect with this, but shouldn't it be pretty obvious that if it could support a few weekly flights then there would be? I mean, airlines are after one thing - money - if there were money there then they would be there.

Every time someone starts a thread about possible new routes for their hometown airport, someone else always makes this comment. If the airlines thought this way, there would never be any new flights. Not so long ago, I started a thread suggesting Aeromexico should restart the former Mexicana route between YYC and MEX. I got a lot of people telling me it would never happen and that if it was a good idea, somebody would already be doing it. And yet, less than a year after I posted about it, AM is starting a daily flight as of June 1.


Completely agree. Some people don't look at the connection point of the route. MEX is a great hub for connecting onward to South/Central America. It is also the largest city in North America. For Winnipeg , I don't see us getting quite as much service as you guys have but perhaps a E190 4-5 days a week could be feasible to start out with.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:13 am

rookie00 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
yeginleduc wrote:
I think if YWG offered enough incentives to Icelandair then they would consider service once they have the space and availability in KEF. Same goes for DL and AS in SEA. Its probably a bit long and thin and maybe SLC would make a bit more sense from YWG for DL.

AA cut DFW from YEG so not sure they would be looking at YWG at the moment. Maybe PHX if there is enough snowbirds. Does WS operate YWG-PHX year-round?

As for domestic carriers maybe the C-Series will help but if they couldn't make it work with the E90 or 736 then filling a C-Series to places like YQB and YYJ will be a stretch.

Best thing for YWG at the moment would be for Porter to setup a scissor hub in YWG to reach some of the bigger western destinations. Im sure there are some people in western Canada would avoid YYZ and go strait into YTZ with a short stopover in YWG but thats even a stretch on the Q400.

Anyways. we can all dream...


There's no way AA will add YWG-PHX with their codeshare partner in WS already flying the route. Apart from the obvious sun routes that always have potential, personally, I think YWG-KEF and YWG-YYJ (summer-seaonal) are the most likely routes to eventually happen. YWG-YYJ is a WS-type of route. They're increasing YWG-YLW frequencies, which is a similar market to YYJ. If the Canadian $ ever rebounds, I hope US carriers start adding back capacity/introducing new routes to cities outside of Canada's big 4 airports. Maybe the new YOW-LGA is the first sign of that happening.


That isn't necessarily true. An example being Edmonton. Edmonton has a seasonal American Eagle flight to Sky Harbour along with Westjet servicing Sky Harbour and Mesa-Gateway. So looking at codeshare partners doesn't always work.

aerolimani wrote:
ACDC8 wrote:
I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect with this, but shouldn't it be pretty obvious that if it could support a few weekly flights then there would be? I mean, airlines are after one thing - money - if there were money there then they would be there.

Every time someone starts a thread about possible new routes for their hometown airport, someone else always makes this comment. If the airlines thought this way, there would never be any new flights. Not so long ago, I started a thread suggesting Aeromexico should restart the former Mexicana route between YYC and MEX. I got a lot of people telling me it would never happen and that if it was a good idea, somebody would already be doing it. And yet, less than a year after I posted about it, AM is starting a daily flight as of June 1.


Completely agree. Some people don't look at the connection point of the route. MEX is a great hub for connecting onward to South/Central America. It is also the largest city in North America. For Winnipeg , I don't see us getting quite as much service as you guys have but perhaps a E190 4-5 days a week could be feasible to start out with.


One major difference. YEG is a 2/3 larger market than YWG.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:41 am

aerolimani wrote:
ACDC8 wrote:
rookie00 wrote:
Winnipeg has about 60k Filipinos living in the city. Surely that could support a few weekly flights.

I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect with this, but shouldn't it be pretty obvious that if it could support a few weekly flights then there would be? I mean, airlines are after one thing - money - if there were money there then they would be there.

Every time someone starts a thread about possible new routes for their hometown airport, someone else always makes this comment. If the airlines thought this way, there would never be any new flights. Not so long ago, I started a thread suggesting Aeromexico should restart the former Mexicana route between YYC and MEX. I got a lot of people telling me it would never happen and that if it was a good idea, somebody would already be doing it. And yet, less than a year after I posted about it, AM is starting a daily flight as of June 1.


While I understand what you are saying, in this particular case (YYC-MEX), there was an outside influence that helped relaunch the route. Had the Canadian government kept the visa requirement, AM would probably not have launched YYC, nor would they have expanded service to the YYZ/YVR/YUL.

Also, YYC-MEX was already served as recently as 2010, so the viability of the market was already somewhat proven.

Not to mention YYC is not YWG. Cowtown draws a far greater tourism crowd than YWG, has a higher and wealthier population base and is a hub airport, which a foreign carrier can tap into with the right codeshares/interline agreements/alliances.

YWG has none of these.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
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aerolimani
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:55 am

Thenoflyzone wrote:
aerolimani wrote:
ACDC8 wrote:
I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect with this, but shouldn't it be pretty obvious that if it could support a few weekly flights then there would be? I mean, airlines are after one thing - money - if there were money there then they would be there.

Every time someone starts a thread about possible new routes for their hometown airport, someone else always makes this comment. If the airlines thought this way, there would never be any new flights. Not so long ago, I started a thread suggesting Aeromexico should restart the former Mexicana route between YYC and MEX. I got a lot of people telling me it would never happen and that if it was a good idea, somebody would already be doing it. And yet, less than a year after I posted about it, AM is starting a daily flight as of June 1.


While I understand what you are saying, in this particular case (YYC-MEX), there was an outside influence that helped relaunch the route. Had the Canadian government kept the visa requirement, AM would probably not have launched YYC, nor would they have expanded service to the YYZ/YVR/YUL.

Also, YYC-MEX was already served until 2010, so the viability of the market was already somewhat proven.

Not to mention YYC is not YWG. Cowtown draws a far greater tourism crowd than YWG, has a higher and wealthier population base and is a hub airport, which a foreign carrier can tap into with right codeshares/interline agreements/alliances.

YWG has none of these.

I was mostly protesting the use of the blanket (dismissive) statement that "if [a route] could support a few weekly flights then there would be." It does nothing to further any intelligent discussion.

As to the specific YYC-MEX situation, I do understand all the factors at play; visa relaxation especially. Nonetheless, I am surprised that AM is starting up daily flights. Mexicana wasn't so frequent. Of course, AM has the data on how many of its YVR passengers are connecting through to YYC. So, likely that is figuring into their decision.

Indeed, YWG is not as strong a market as YYC. Nonetheless, I think there is some potential. As mentioned above, I could see FI starting up KEF. I'm sure Winnipeggers would be happy to tap into FI's extensive Europe network. As it stands, I believe the only other 1-stop connection to European destinations is through LGW with WS.
 
rookie00
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:09 am

Thenoflyzone wrote:
aerolimani wrote:
ACDC8 wrote:
I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect with this, but shouldn't it be pretty obvious that if it could support a few weekly flights then there would be? I mean, airlines are after one thing - money - if there were money there then they would be there.

Every time someone starts a thread about possible new routes for their hometown airport, someone else always makes this comment. If the airlines thought this way, there would never be any new flights. Not so long ago, I started a thread suggesting Aeromexico should restart the former Mexicana route between YYC and MEX. I got a lot of people telling me it would never happen and that if it was a good idea, somebody would already be doing it. And yet, less than a year after I posted about it, AM is starting a daily flight as of June 1.


While I understand what you are saying, in this particular case (YYC-MEX), there was an outside influence that helped relaunch the route. Had the Canadian government kept the visa requirement, AM would probably not have launched YYC, nor would they have expanded service to the YYZ/YVR/YUL.

Also, YYC-MEX was already served as recently as 2010, so the viability of the market was already somewhat proven.

Not to mention YYC is not YWG. Cowtown draws a far greater tourism crowd than YWG, has a higher and wealthier population base and is a hub airport, which a foreign carrier can tap into with the right codeshares/interline agreements/alliances.

YWG has none of these.


With the visa requirement being lifted, Canada - Mexico flights have been performing great. YVR , YYZ , YUL are all going to 2x daily plus the daily flight to YYC this summer on Aero Mexico. Rouge also flies to MEX from YVR,YYZ, YUL so in total that's about 3-4 daily flights. As i mentioned above, A Aero Mexico Connect E190 or mainline 737-700 a few time weekly would be a great connection for YWG. Also mentioned on the front page , I can see more Mexican airlines branching more and more into Canada with the visa gone. Perhaps instead of AM to MEX , YWG could get a different connection to a city like Guadalajara with Volaris or Viva Aerobus.

Anyways... Just speculation but I see Canada-Mexcio flights becoming increasingly popular in the years to come. Especially in the winter when the snowbirds head south.

I realize this link talks about Interjet and Volaris looking at expanding to Vancouver but once they start flying to the main 4 airports perhaps they could expand to YWG
http://expansion.mx/empresas/2016/10/19/canada-seduce-a-interjet-y-volaris-tras-el-fin-de-visa
 
jencor58
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:18 am

While it is true that many immigrants to Canada do not have the resources or inclination to fly to their country of origin once they get here, the Filipino population in Winnipeg seems to defy that generalization. There are about 35,000 passengers flying to and from the Philippines from YWG through other airports every year. Many of those are family members from there coming to visit their newly transplanted family here. The distance between Manila and Winnipeg is about 12,000km, so having an appropriate sized aircraft capable of flying that non-stop is an issue all its own. Maybe if PAL takes on some 350ERs in 2018 they might be more favorable about exploring the possibility.
 
edmaircraft
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:48 am

Vio wrote:
rookie00 wrote:
Hey guys! I thought for my first post on Airliners.net I would post a prediction of future routes at my local airport. Here's a few facts about YWG and Winnipeg in general... So Manitoba has a population of around 1.3 Million people with about 800k people living in Winnipeg. YWG just passed 4mil passengers in 2016 which broke a record for passenger traffic.

International
YWG-MNL : Winnipeg has the 4th largest population of people from the Philippines in Canada
YWG-KEF : Gimli, Manitoba is home to the largest Icelandic population outside of Iceland
YWG-MEX : Aeromexico announced service to Calgary a couple months ago and if that route works out well I can see them branching out into more new markets like YEG, YOW and YWG


Domestic
YWG-YQB : I can see this route happening in a few years when the C-series begins operation in Canada
YWG-YYJ : ^
YWG-YYT : ^

US
YWG-SEA : If the YWG-MSP route continues to operate well perhaps one day there will be a direct flight to one off Deltas other hubs. Manitoba is also home to alot of aerospace companies that could use the route for connections with Boeing,
YWG-LAX : Hollywood
YWG-HNL : Could be a future winter seasonal destination


What other routes do you guys think could be a possibility in the future?



Yeah.... No. None of this will happen. The only expansion you'll get is somewhere where the government pays for the passengers' flights... It's nice to dream though. Are you kidding me? Winnipeg - Manila? No... not even close. They can't even make YVR / YYZ work without each other. The only way it'll work if Philippine Airlines will fly MNL-YVR-YWG-YYZ (and return)

This post gave me a good chuckle though. Winnipeg is going nowhere my friend. Trust me. I've lived there for 6 years and flew out of YWG for 5... It'll remain a gateway to Northern MB and Kivalliq region, but that's it.


Second.
Let me up!
 
rookie00
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:31 pm

Perhaps another possibility for a route is YWG-MIA on AA .. Westjet already flys to FLL in the winter. Miami is in range of the E175 from YWG so perhaps a seasonal flight to compliment Westjet ( alternating days) could work out.
 
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Jawaiiansky66
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:07 pm

Wow! So many posts for little ol YWG! Who da thought?

Awesome. Love their new airport terminal but miss the old 60's familiar black box terminal with the funky cube art installations at either end. I also miss the awesome long gone local airline, Transair! Who could forget their iconic 'pee and poo' yellow and brown colour scheme?! (the colours of the province of Manitoba). LOL

I remember living in the PEG back in the early 70s as a little kid and seeing the occasional charter British Airways 707 and regular Air Canada L1011's and 747 flights to Toronto. We flew the first 747 flight to and from YWG to YYZ back when the aircraft was being introduced and they had to stack two sets of stairs to reach the door! Very wobbly coming down from that flight!

For future flights, I can see regular ROUGE flights to Hawaii (Honolulu and Kahului), Mexico (east and west coast leisure destinations) and to other warm destinations. Back in the early 70's, I was surprised that a city the size of the PEG could support Wardair charter 747 flights with some regularity. So sun destinations seem to be the realistic choice.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:18 pm

I don't think you'll see AM at YWG.
YEG should be the next logical destination for them, and that is where it will stop, as far as I'm concerned.

Also, I don't see Rouge operating YWG-HNL. They don't even operate YYC-HNL, or YUL-HNL. One stop connections are more than adequate for it Winnipegers via YYC, YEG and YVR.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
UA772IAD
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:34 pm

jmt18325 wrote:
There's actually a great deal to do in Winnipeg (and Edmonton) in terms of festivals that you don't see in other places. There is also now a national museum in Winnipeg which draws extra people. The outdoor sites within a few hours drive Also have started to draw more people to Manitoba. This, coupled with visa free travel for Mexicans makes MEX probably one of the only possibilities outside of KEF and more Caribbean destinations.


Every city has it's own festivals and events. The same holds true for museums. Having only one national museum in town isn't going to justify international air service or increased domestic service. The beauty of Canada is that the north is covered in lakes and boreal forests in most of the Provinces. However, most of those summer lake communities consist of cabins-ranging from rustic to opulet owned by Canadians living in the city centers. The marquee "Canadian Outdoors" for international visitors will always be the Rockies, British Columbia and the Maritimes.

Winnipeg is a very "Canadian" city- as is Edmonton. Much like Sacramento is a very "American" city or Brisbane an "Australian" city. Important in the domestic marketplace, but not big enough and not unique enough to share the international cache that the big cities enjoy. Which is why YWG might get a few seasonals or a few RJs to the states. For now, the majority of passengers will still connect at a larger airport to catch an international flight.
 
rookie00
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:38 pm

UA772IAD wrote:
jmt18325 wrote:
There's actually a great deal to do in Winnipeg (and Edmonton) in terms of festivals that you don't see in other places. There is also now a national museum in Winnipeg which draws extra people. The outdoor sites within a few hours drive Also have started to draw more people to Manitoba. This, coupled with visa free travel for Mexicans makes MEX probably one of the only possibilities outside of KEF and more Caribbean destinations.


Every city has it's own festivals and events. The same holds true for museums. Having only one national museum in town isn't going to justify international air service or increased domestic service. The beauty of Canada is that the north is covered in lakes and boreal forests in most of the Provinces. However, most of those summer lake communities consist of cabins-ranging from rustic to opulet owned by Canadians living in the city centers. The marquee "Canadian Outdoors" for international visitors will always be the Rockies, British Columbia and the Maritimes.

Winnipeg is a very "Canadian" city- as is Edmonton. Much like Sacramento is a very "American" city or Brisbane an "Australian" city. Important in the domestic marketplace, but not big enough and not unique enough to share the international cache that the big cities enjoy. Which is why YWG might get a few seasonals or a few RJs to the states. For now, the majority of passengers will still connect at a larger airport to catch an international flight.


What I'm trying to suggest is that perhaps there will be more direct service that doesn't involve a stopover somewhere. For example Winnipeg could most likely support a direct flight to many of those destinations I listed but instead they are forced to connect elsewhere to get to their destinations. As for festivals and what not... I agree that there are many more cities that are looked at before Winnipeg however we do have a lot of great events and stuff going on. In the summer we have a lot to from events downtown to walking the river walk. In the winter we have a iconic French festival called "festival de voyageur " which includes a lot of interesting stuff like syrup on a stick and snow sculptures. I guess it just depends if you want to explore something different. We also just built a new section of the local zoo which houses a large Polar Bear exibit
 
rookie00
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:39 pm

Jawaiiansky66 wrote:
Wow! So many posts for little ol YWG! Who da thought?

Awesome. Love their new airport terminal but miss the old 60's familiar black box terminal with the funky cube art installations at either end. I also miss the awesome long gone local airline, Transair! Who could forget their iconic 'pee and poo' yellow and brown colour scheme?! (the colours of the province of Manitoba). LOL

I remember living in the PEG back in the early 70s as a little kid and seeing the occasional charter British Airways 707 and regular Air Canada L1011's and 747 flights to Toronto. We flew the first 747 flight to and from YWG to YYZ back when the aircraft was being introduced and they had to stack two sets of stairs to reach the door! Very wobbly coming down from that flight!

For future flights, I can see regular ROUGE flights to Hawaii (Honolulu and Kahului), Mexico (east and west coast leisure destinations) and to other warm destinations. Back in the early 70's, I was surprised that a city the size of the PEG could support Wardair charter 747 flights with some regularity. So sun destinations seem to be the realistic choice.


The old terminal was awesome! One of my favorite features was the observation deck they had... to bad they didn't rebuild another one at the new building.
 
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:28 pm

You know what I hated about the old terminal? It was that the observation deck was set far from the edge so you only saw the tail and part of the fuselage of the planes on the ramp. Traffic back in the early 70s was not constant so planes moving around the tarmac was few and far between unless you stayed the entire day.

As for the topic, I also see more future flights to the north, especially to new settlements that will eventually be built on the old permafrost as the northwest passage opens up due to global warming. Canada will need to start asserting its sovereignty if it wants to keep its slice of the arctic. I see YWG as being the key gateway to the north and these new places.
 
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:57 pm

So If YWG does get service to KEF, what aircraft do you think would be optimal? I think a 752 or A321 would be about right. Perhaps a little less frequent during the non peak times of the year
 
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:53 pm

rookie00 wrote:
So If YWG does get service to KEF, what aircraft do you think would be optimal? I think a 752 or A321 would be about right. Perhaps a little less frequent during the non peak times of the year

As I stated before it would more than likely be WOW air to start KEF-YWG. Of course this would be with the A321 and at most 2 or 3 times per week.
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:45 pm

I can see this route working out nicely for WOW If they do indeed start the route in the future. YWG hasn't have a direct flight to Iceland for about 5 years when Iceland Express used to fly the route.
 
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:01 am

rookie00 wrote:
The whole point of this thread is for "future" service to Winnipeg... For starters I realize out of the list some routes are more realistic then others but I never said these were happening any time soon. Secondly If you look at the service we had a few years ago compared to now, it's a big difference in service. Examples: Westjet to LGW is our first Non-North American destination in some years. New leaf also entered the market last year which led to new domestic destinations, This year there are 2 proposed airlines ( Jetlines and Fly Too) that will almost certainly add to the recent success YWG has been having. Some may question why I added YWG-LAX but If you look at Jetlines proposed route map they have a flight to Ontario, California so instead of added every airport surrounding LA that could possibly support a flight I just put the bigger of the airports. With the YWG-MNL flight I added a article a few comments up explaining why I put that flight on the list. Not sure what you are talking about with a MNL-YVR-YWG-YYZ flight? Currently PAL flys to JFK and YYZ, both flights have a stop over in Vancouver so adding a flight onward to YWG from YVR couldn't be that hard.


I'm not sure who you're trying to convince. You opened a topic and people answered. I'd like to think I know Winnipeg Airport. I live here and I've been a pilot flying out of Winnipeg for more than 5 years. Like many other A.netters here I am keen on learning new things about airplanes, airlines and airports. I just think your ideas are wishful thinking; that's all. Look, I hope Winnipeg gets Emirates A380s, KLM 747s and Lufthansa 748. Hell I hope to see Aerolineas Argentinas fly YWG- Buenos Aires. I just don't see this airport developing into much more than it is now. It's an important gateway to the North, but that's it. Winnipegers are not really known for their desire to travel. Most of them are happy with weekend getaways to their cabins. (No disrespect there)
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rookie00
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:04 am

Vio wrote:
rookie00 wrote:
The whole point of this thread is for "future" service to Winnipeg... For starters I realize out of the list some routes are more realistic then others but I never said these were happening any time soon. Secondly If you look at the service we had a few years ago compared to now, it's a big difference in service. Examples: Westjet to LGW is our first Non-North American destination in some years. New leaf also entered the market last year which led to new domestic destinations, This year there are 2 proposed airlines ( Jetlines and Fly Too) that will almost certainly add to the recent success YWG has been having. Some may question why I added YWG-LAX but If you look at Jetlines proposed route map they have a flight to Ontario, California so instead of added every airport surrounding LA that could possibly support a flight I just put the bigger of the airports. With the YWG-MNL flight I added a article a few comments up explaining why I put that flight on the list. Not sure what you are talking about with a MNL-YVR-YWG-YYZ flight? Currently PAL flys to JFK and YYZ, both flights have a stop over in Vancouver so adding a flight onward to YWG from YVR couldn't be that hard.


I'm not sure who you're trying to convince. You opened a topic and people answered. I'd like to think I know Winnipeg Airport. I live here and I've been a pilot flying out of Winnipeg for more than 5 years. Like many other A.netters here I am keen on learning new things about airplanes, airlines and airports. I just think your ideas are wishful thinking; that's all. Look, I hope Winnipeg gets Emirates A380s, KLM 747s and Lufthansa 748. Hell I hope to see Aerolineas Argentinas fly YWG- Buenos Aires. I just don't see this airport developing into much more than it is now. It's an important gateway to the North, but that's it. Winnipegers are not really known for their desire to travel. Most of them are happy with weekend getaways to their cabins. (No disrespect there)


I'm not trying to convince anyone. I opened the thread to talk about future air service from Winnipeg with the A-Net community for my first post. However to think that none of these routes will ever happen is a little extreme in my opinion. For example as a few others have stated above the link to Iceland seems most likely to happen in the future. I realize that Winnipeg will never be a YYZ or YVR type of airport but just convincing a few more carriers to start routes puts Winnipeg on the map. I do however agree with the fact that Winnipegers don't really travel a lot. I think the main reason for that is the price for air travel in Canada. Anyways just my two cents.
 
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:11 am

On a side note... There have been a couple of mineral claims in Manitoba recently. In the north a group apparently found Diamonds for the first time in Manitoba history, and just south of Winnipeg there is a report that there could be Lithium. Surely this will take years to set up but If the companies do find resources and start mining, could that lead to more flights out of YWG?

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/massive-mineral-claim-414775434.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/diamonds-discovered-1.4012050
 
rookie00
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Re: Future Air Service discussion YWG

Fri May 12, 2017 1:18 am

Perhaps YWG could get a few flights in the coming years. Westjet is starting a low cost airline later this year and maybe they would consider a flight or two out of Winnipeg. Westjet also recently purchased 787's so maybe they would fly one of them at least seasonally to add onto the LGW service. Another airline I could see flying to YWG is KLM to Amsterdam a few years down the road.
 
Aeroplane123
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YWG Discussion

Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:04 am

Hey everyone first time poster here. I haven't seen anything like this on here so I thought i'd start a discussion post about YWG (Winnipeg)

So before you roll your eyes and think this is fantasy post just hear me out... Winnipeg is longitudinal center of Canada which puts it in a pretty good position for trade and travel. That being said to fly anywhere from YWG you need to connect at the big hubs ( MSP, ORD, DEN, YYZ, YUL, YYC, YVR) which not only is a hassle but also takes time out of your day flying. If you look at Winnipeg you'll see that it's fairly small compared to other cities in Canada having just under 800k people but the region to which it caters to is much much larger then that. Just last year Westjet started direct flights to London, England from YWG which was our first Trans-Atlantic in a few years. This year the flight was scaled back because of lack of planes to fly the route I'm not suggesting that Winnipeg is going to become like a super huge hub or anything however what I am suggesting is that perhaps instead of being overlooked we would be on the airlines radar as a place to fly to. The reason I think we should be on the airlines radar is we are the only major Canadian city between Toronto and Calgary and one of only a handful of cities within 1000km with a large enough population to sustain flights.


Routes that I think could happen In Winnipeg within the next 5 years

1- Icelandair to KEF : This is one route I'm surprised hasn't happened yet. Gimli Maniotba which is about a hour north of Winnipeg has the highest Icelandic population outside of Iceland and with all the tourism thats happening in Iceland I can this being a successful route. Im not sure If it's lack of aircraft or terminal space in KEF but once that gets sorted out I could see Icelandair setting up shop in YWG

2- Westjet to Hawaii : A few weeks ago Westjet held a conference in Vancouver where they announced how they wanted to fly to China from YVR. However they also had a proposed route map which had a link between YWG- somewhere in Hawaii. Nothing firm yet but that would be a pretty popular route in the winter.

3- Either British Airways or Air Canada to London : So like I said earlier Westjet started flying to London from many cities across Canada. As they start getting the hang of the whole International widebody thing I can see either BA or AC challenging them in cities like YWG , YEG and YHZ

4- Westjets new leisure carrier to LAX: Winnipeg and Ottawa are the only two major cities without direct service to LA. With Westjet along with a few other low cost carriers planning on starting up it could be interesting to watch routes like this one.

5-Condor to FRA or MUN : Winnipeg has a pretty large German population. This route obviously wouldn't happen anytime soon but in the future when Condor adds more aircraft this could perhaps happen

6- Delta to ATL or SEA : Currently Winnipeg has 4x daily flights to MSP which can be pretty full

7-American to DFW : American is the only major airline in the US to not fly into Winnipeg, Would make sense to start off with a daily E175 and start from there.

8- Norweigan to Europe: Plenty of cities ahead of us but being a low cost longhaul airline I could see something like YWG-CDG working. Manitoba has a pretty large french community as well as tourists that would want to explore Paris.

Now I know some of those routes may seem unrealistic but Winnipeg is a growing city with tons of possibilities. Hopefully we can have a respectful discussion about the routes above , frequencies and anything else that may be going on at YWG :D
 
mmo
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Re: YWG Discussion

Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:05 am

The first thing you need to realize is a hub operation needs to be able to stand on it's own. That is the hub boardings, excluding connecting passengers needs to make financial sense and pay the fixed costs of the hub. While you might think YWG can do that, I would beg to differ as do the major airlines of the world. If you take a look at NW's hub in MEM, it was unsuccessful because it couldn't make money. While it might have provided a convenient hub in the Southeast, it was an albatross for NW. CVG for DL is another good example.
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sagechan
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Re: YWG Discussion

Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:27 am

I like YWG and have been there quite a few times via NW, DL, UA and AC. However considering how little tranaboarder flights it has, I do question the viability of longhaul from there. The LCC longhaul airlines may have a chance. I think the problem with AA is ORD makes more sense than DFW but its a competitive route.
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Re: YWG Discussion

Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:57 am

Today, airlines know exactly how many people want to fly from A to B. Strategic route planning is far more a science, that the art it used to be. For that reason, it is very very unlikely that there is any worldwide market not flown because airlines have not yet discovered it.

AC knows exactly how many people want to fly from YWG to FRA, (for example). WS knows how many people want to fly from YWG to HNL. That there are presently no flights is an indication of how many ... as it is always cheaper to fly someone non-stop than through a hub.

Icelandair is a possibility. As YWG to Europe can be just as easily flown through KEF as YYZ or YUL.

Historically, YWG has played a strategic part in Canada's routes. During the DC-4M days YYZ-YWG-YVR and YYZ-YWG-YYC/YEG were common due to range limitations of the aircraft. As a result, it was a large hub for TCA/AC. Today, it is no longer necessary. However, Air Canada must maintain a certain presence there, (Pilot and Maintenance base for example), as a result of restrictions placed by the Air Canada Public Participation Act more than 30 years ago during privatisation.
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Aeroplane123
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Re: YWG Discussion

Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:10 pm

longhauler wrote:
Today, airlines know exactly how many people want to fly from A to B. Strategic route planning is far more a science, that the art it used to be. For that reason, it is very very unlikely that there is any worldwide market not flown because airlines have not yet discovered it.

AC knows exactly how many people want to fly from YWG to FRA, (for example). WS knows how many people want to fly from YWG to HNL. That there are presently no flights is an indication of how many ... as it is always cheaper to fly someone non-stop than through a hub.

Icelandair is a possibility. As YWG to Europe can be just as easily flown through KEF as YYZ or YUL.

Historically, YWG has played a strategic part in Canada's routes. During the DC-4M days YYZ-YWG-YVR and YYZ-YWG-YYC/YEG were common due to range limitations of the aircraft. As a result, it was a large hub for TCA/AC. Today, it is no longer necessary. However, Air Canada must maintain a certain presence there, (Pilot and Maintenance base for example), as a result of restrictions placed by the Air Canada Public Participation Act more than 30 years ago during privatisation.


The problem is the airlines want you to fly through their hubs to get to where you want to go. Just look at Newleaf for example, they started flights out of Winnipeg last year to places we haven't had direct flights to before(YLW, YXX, YHM, YHZ) and Westjet wasn't far behind to announce the same routes. That is also why Winnipeg has around 15 daily flights to Toronto is because alot of those people are connecting onto US, Asian and European destinations.
 
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longhauler
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Re: YWG Discussion

Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:57 pm

Aeroplane123 wrote:
The problem is the airlines want you to fly through their hubs to get to where you want to go. Just look at Newleaf for example, they started flights out of Winnipeg last year to places we haven't had direct flights to before(YLW, YXX, YHM, YHZ) and Westjet wasn't far behind to announce the same routes. That is also why Winnipeg has around 15 daily flights to Toronto is because alot of those people are connecting onto US, Asian and European destinations.

Those are actually two different issues. Fledgling airlines tend to a small hub, not for efficiency or location, but to offer more flights between more cities. New Leaf, and Greyhound before them (for example) hubbed in YWG as it was in central Canada. Not because of demand for YWG (although some is there) but to offer flights from YLW to YHM, or YXX to YHZ, through YWG with everything arriving and leaving in banks. As (or if) New Leaf matures, and it can fill a non-stop flights from say, YXX to YHM, they will do just that, as it is always cheaper.

That brings us to the other issue. Air Canada (for example) flying passengers out of YWG to YYZ or YVR to connect to the rest of the world. It is only done that way because YWG could not support a non-stop on its own to each of the connecting destinations. Once it can ... a non-stop will follow, again, unit cost is the main driving factor. Not to mention yield ... Air Canada can earn more per mile flying YWG to YYZ, or YYZ to ZRH, than a through fare YWG-YYZ-ZRH. So hubbing is not ideal, and when traffic warrants a non-stop it will appear. In the mean time though, passengers and airlines will have to accept connections.
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SeaDoo
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Re: YWG Discussion

Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:05 pm

1l how about a WOW narrowbody?

6l I don't see DL jumping into ATL-YWG, but I think that is more likely than SEA
 
Dominion301
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Re: YWG Discussion

Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:43 pm

There was a thread about YWG not too long ago. Anyhow, I think the most likely transatlantic routes for YWG are:

1) More WS service to LGW once WS have more widebodies on property. The only reason why YWG and YEG were cut back this summer was not due to poor loads, but to not have a repeat of the 763 nightmares they went through last summer.
2) FI or WOW to KEF. I fully expect both of them to serve YWG and YOW within the next 5 years.

The real growth for YWG will be more service on existing domestic routes. The funneling as many as possible thru YYZ holds true for YWG-YOW/YUL. An ULCC 3rd carrier is what these routes need to increase the O&D traffic bypassing YYZ...not to mention the new traffic it would stimulate on those city paris. YWG-YOW/YUL have less capacity on those routes now than there was 10 years ago even though domestic traffic at all 3 airports is substantially higher than it was a decade ago. In fact, less than at pretty much at any point in the past 25 years.
 
rookie00
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Re: YWG Discussion

Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:58 pm

I agree with one of the above posters. Iceland could be served by WOW or a mix of WOW and Icelandair. I also think another route that could be added to your list is perhaps YWG-AMS on KLM. Klm started YEG not to long ago and I've heard it's been doing well. Maybe once new planes come online they'll want to expand to places such as YWG. Winnipeg probably could support a flight a few times weekly.
Last edited by rookie00 on Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
ahj2000
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Re: YWG Discussion

Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:59 pm

I think most likely out of your list Is AA, but I think they'd probably go to ORD 2x first. Once daily that far south wouldn't do well for the majority of connecting flows.
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Dominion301
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Re: YWG Discussion

Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:23 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
I think most likely out of your list Is AA, but I think they'd probably go to ORD 2x first. Once daily that far south wouldn't do well for the majority of connecting flows.


The thing with AA is they've discontinued a bunch of transborder routes in recent years. To ORD alone, they dropped YKF, YOW and YWG.

It's entirely possible they could re-add YWG at some point, but unlike at say YOW, where they still fly YOW-PHL, they'd be re-entering the YWG marketplace to boot. Time will tell...probably once ORD's redevelopment is completed.
 
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canadianpylon
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Re: YWG Discussion

Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:56 pm

Being a Winnipegger myself, I would love to see some of things that you propose. But the reality of the situation is, there are a lot of factors working against YWG:

1- Icelandair to KEF : IcelandExpress has tried in the past, and failed. Just because there is a large population or Iceland descendants in Gimli does translate into instant success for this route. It's been tried a couple of times, and never worked. It would only work if there was some way to feed into the flights from other cities such as Regina, Saskatoon, etc....

2- Westjet to Hawaii : It is just as far to fly to Hawaii as it is to fly to London. That requires a big aircraft and more seats than there are people flying this route. It has been bantered about that this could be the first leg of a YWG-MNL flight, but US Visa requirements would make this routing very unappealing from a customer standpoint versus a MNL-YVR-YWG routing, which is currently available. Also, flying to Hawaii adds substantially more flying time.

3- Either British Airways or Air Canada to London : Air Canada (and to a lesser extent BA/WestJet) can use Winnipeg to fill up their planes via YYZ for London. Why would they want to hurt their hub flights? Again, this MIGHT be more feasible if there was feeder flights from Regina, Saskatoon, etc... But those markets are equally served by connecting through YYC, so... why bother?

4- Westjets new leisure carrier to LAX: Been tried, and was still-born. They tried to market it as a 'Hollywood' flight. Yes, they make some movies in Winnipeg, but nothing compared to Toronto/Vancouver/Montreal. It might work with a smaller plane, like a 100 seater.

5-Condor to FRA or MUN : Again... AC would not hurt their YYZ-FRA/MUC loads by doing this. WS has no partners in Germany to market this on beyond MUC/FRA.

6- Delta to ATL or SEA : There is a surprising amount of business ties between ATL and YWG. What does DL ATL offer YWG that can't be handled by MSP? If they tried this, it would be small planes 1x or 2x daily.

7-American to DFW : I would love for AA to start flying to Winnipeg. If they did, I'm sure they start with ORD before DFW. And it would be Envoy.

8- Norweigan to Europe: ONLY if they flight arrived to Europe to connect on to other Norwegian flights. LGW would be the most logical choice to me.... Again, sufficient feed on the Canadian side of this flight would also be necessary.


There are 3 big things working against YWG right now:

1) Isolation - There is a lack of other population centers within a short drive/flight from Winnipeg to draw from. Regina/Saskatoon are 6-8 hours away, and very well connected to Calgary. Everything that you have proposed can be handled by YYC right now. In Manitoba the next biggest city in terms of size is Brandon, and it's tiny (50,000?). It doesn't have regular connections to YWG because it's so small (I don't count the Perimeter flights, as they don't use the YWG terminal and do their own thing.)

2) Sufficient connection opportunities - Between ORD, MSP, YYC, YYZ, and YUL, you can get anywhere with relative ease.

3) Winnipeg is not a major tourist destination: When people in Europe think of Canada as a tourist destination, Winnipeg doesn't register. Before you start to jump all over me, there are things to do here. It's just not on the same level as Calgary/Banff, Toronto/Niagara, Montréal/Quebec City, or Vancouver/Whistler. People primarily come to Winnipeg for 2 reasons: business, and VFR (visiting friends and relatives.)

There is 1 flight routing you didn't mention that I think would work really well... YWG to NYC. It's an interesting blend of business and tourist. Again, WS and AC use the YWG to help fill YYZ-NYC flights, so it would have to be a different carrier doing this flight.
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berari
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Re: YWG Discussion

Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:03 pm

Winnipeg does not have much to offer to sustain any of the services the OP suggested. I was surprised to see that WS tried Gatwick from there. If anything, Winnipeg could try and be a scissor hub like the time when Greyhound Air tried it many years ago, but would only work for an ultra low cost airline given that nobody has time to connect in YWG.
 
ACDC8
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Re: YWG Discussion

Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:10 pm

berari wrote:
Winnipeg does not have much to offer to sustain any of the services the OP suggested. I was surprised to see that WS tried Gatwick from there. If anything, Winnipeg could try and be a scissor hub like the time when Greyhound Air tried it many years ago, but would only work for an ultra low cost airline given that nobody has time to connect in YWG.

And thats all they'll ever be - NewLeaf has been using YWG for the same purpose.
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hvusslax
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Re: YWG Discussion

Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:38 pm

I can see FI serving Winnipeg at some point but if they do it will be almost entirely to connect an underserved market with an one-stop routing to Europe. The Icelandic diaspora in Canada is very small and has pretty much no connection with the old motherland so it's a negligible factor for the route.

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