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enilria
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WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:03 pm

It reminds how rare it is for an airline to admit something is poor.

“We didn’t really have high expectations for this new market. ... It’s going to take some time to understand what the demand is,” Kelly said in his weekly message to employees. “I’m certainly not surprised by how the flights are performing. The flights aren't full, but again we certainly didn’t expect them to be right out of the gate.”

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/sout ... uba-market
 
32andBelow
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:28 pm

Has AS said anything. Noticed the LAX flight is full some days.
 
RJNUT
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:35 am

if there is any market where traditional distribution channels are going to be primary, Cuba would be it and WN is on the outside looking in re: this issue.
 
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:43 am

32andBelow wrote:
Has AS said anything. Noticed the LAX flight is full some days.


And some days only 30 people. They have also subbed some days 737-700 and -800s instead of -900ERs on route

I'd suspect route is heavily in the red. With 5-6 hour block times per segment, low fares and marginal demand, not a good recipe.

And to think, AS asked the DOT for double daily frequencies from LAX!
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enilria
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:48 am

It's bad for everybody, probably worst for WN and best for AA.
 
dc10lover
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:52 am

Funny how airlines fought over the Cuba market then find out the pot of gold isn't there.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:09 am

Is Airbnb running in Cuba? Without beds to sleep in, people cannot travel...

I have to admit I thought the flights would do a little better. Oh, with the sudden surge I expected losses, but not as bad as we're seeing.

Lightsaber
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:14 am

Airlines didn't just throw frequency at Cuba, they also threw higher capacity jets at it. We have recently seen some downsizing. Seems like more is needed. Didn't WN start with several 800's instead of 700's?
 
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:15 am

Does anyone know the load factors for Canadian flights to Cuba?

Maybe the problem with USA to Cuba load factors is due to repression of demand?
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globalcabotage
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:18 am

This is why no sane person would invest in an airline! Add all these seats to a restricted market, and shocked that only 30 people a day have all the paperwork. US airline management is probably the most incompetent in the world.

Slogan of USA airline CEOs should be, "hold my beer, watch this route (ONT-IND), is pure gold. No offense to ONT and IND, but USA airlines are incompetent and poorly run, for the most part (too bad AS and the few good airlines are overshadowed by the incompetent US3).
 
Adispatcher
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:20 am

dc10lover wrote:
Funny how airlines fought over the Cuba market then find out the pot of gold isn't there.


For sure. The excitement was there in the beginning, but it seems to not have panned out as of yet. A lot of work still needs to be done.
 
Cory6188
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:30 am

I went to HAV for a long weekend a month ago (flew DL JFK-HAV for $204 R/T; there's no way they're making any margin at that price), and the reality is that while it's certainly an unusual destination, with appeal for more adventurous travelers from the US, it's definitely a way more of a pain to visit than your average Caribbean island. I realize that Canadians and Europeans have been going to HAV for years, but clearly there's more history/legacy in those markets where travelers are willing to roll with the more "unique" aspects of traveling to Cuba.

From a US market perspective, the overall fear of running into issues with the US government (even if the self-certification process is really just a meaningless piece of paper at this point...the form DL handed us was super poor quality and looked like it had been photocopied 6 times over already), the inability to use credit cards (and thus the need to bring enough cash for the entire trip, plus the long lines to exchange currency), and the more overall "headaches" associated with a trip to Cuba is just not going to appeal to the average traveler that wants to head to the Caribbean for a few days.

Furthermore, Cuba has been completely out of US travelers' consideration set for so many decades due to the embargo and government policies preventing Americans from going there, that it's going to take a long, long time before it's really on the average person's radar in the US as a more destination to visit.
 
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:36 am

BobPatterson wrote:
Does anyone know the load factors for Canadian flights to Cuba?

Maybe the problem with USA to Cuba load factors is due to repression of demand?


They are always full, & I mean full. The airline I used to work for had 4 Toronto - Varadero flights on Saturday's during the peak winter season. 737-800's and I remember seeing those flights 189's across the board. Oh and there's 4 other airlines that also fly that route daily too. If you look at the capacity on Canada-Cuba routes during the winter months it is insane. There are 3 airlines that operate a Toronto & Montreal to Camaguey route and Sunwing flies from Deer Lake (population 5000) to Varadero once a week during the winter and those flights are full!

The advantage we Canadians have is when we go to Cuba, we book an entire package that includes our flights, all-inclusive hotel and bus transfers, and it is dirt cheap ($800 CAD average for a week at a decent hotel). The US are no where near close to what the Canadian carriers offer in terms of package holidays. Couple that with the fact that it is still hard to travel to Cuba for leisure or vacation and it's a recipe for disastrous flight loads from the US carriers.
Last edited by ryan78 on Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
jumbojet
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:36 am

first off, I can see B6, AA, DL, UA and to a lesser extent WN vying for flights to Cuba but AS, really? They don't serve any other market in the Caribbean, they have zero experience and no real argument to serve Cuba. AS is a regional, Pacific N,W. oriented airline.
Last edited by jumbojet on Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
NichCage
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:40 am

Not surprised to hear this. US airlines launched quite a lot of flights to Cuba at one time, and they aren't all doing good. Too many flights have been launched at one time, and now flying to Cuba is mostly loss making.

It's good that Cuba and the US now get along, but Cuba is far from being a common travel destination for Americans. Even countries like the Dominican Republic and Jamaica have more US tourism than Cuba does from US citizens.
 
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:54 am

jumbojet wrote:
first off, I can see B6, AA, DL, UA and to a lesser extent WN vying for flights to Cuba but AS, really? They don't serve any other market in the Caribbean, they have zero experience and no real argument to serve Cuba.


As a kid, I flew AS SEA-ANC-SEA. That was the '70's. I remember when they added Gold Coast service to California. I remember when they added Mexico. I remember when they added Russia. I remember when they added east coast. I remember when they added Hawaii.

Cuba is a stretch, to be sure, but they have been willing to try new markets in the past. Not surprised you picked them out of the crowd, though.
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grbauc
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:00 am

globalcabotage wrote:
This is why no sane person would invest in an airline! Add all these seats to a restricted market, and shocked that only 30 people a day have all the paperwork. US airline management is probably the most incompetent in the world.

Slogan of USA airline CEOs should be, "hold my beer, watch this route (ONT-IND), is pure gold. No offense to ONT and IND, but USA airlines are incompetent and poorly run, for the most part (too bad AS and the few good airlines are overshadowed by the incompetent US3).


There not shocked they just want to get the best piece of the pie and then see where they were and I don't think any of them said these flights were going to take off immediately.
 
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:02 am

dc10lover wrote:
Funny how airlines fought over the Cuba market then find out the pot of gold isn't there.


Reminds me of the LAX-PEK spat between AA and DL.

"Hey, what are you two fighting over?"

"The right to lose tens of millions of dollars per year"
 
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:21 am

lightsaber wrote:
Is Airbnb running in Cuba? Without beds to sleep in, people cannot travel...

I have to admit I thought the flights would do a little better. Oh, with the sudden surge I expected losses, but not as bad as we're seeing.

Lightsaber


There's lots of hotel rooms in Cuba except the Canadian tour operators (and Europe to an extent) have a lock on them.

Like others have said in winter, especially from Eastern Canada, pretty much any airport nowadays from YYT to YQT whose terminal has customs facilities, fills at least 1x weekly flight to Cuba.
 
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:53 am

HAV is not really a vacation destination. Yes, there is a lot to see there, but as far as "traditional sun vacation" it misses the mark. That is why there are over a hundred flights a day to Cuba from Canada by Canadian airlines, yes over a hundred .... yet only one daily flight to HAV. HAV is a very unique market and absolutely nothing like the rest of Cuba. Why American carriers clamoured for HAV, and not VRA (for example) is puzzling.

jumbojet wrote:
but AS, really? They don't serve any other market in the Caribbean, they have zero experience and no real argument to serve Cuba. AS is a regional, Pacific N,W. oriented airline.


Sometimes it is not about the destination, but about the hub from where they depart. AS has a very strong LAX presence, with healthy feed, so it makes sense that they would have as good a chance as any at succeeding. It is like AA would be far more successful at DFW-HAV than, say DL. Likewise for UA on IAH-HAV than anyone else.

Cuba is very different from the rest of the Caribbean, so no one really has "experience". Let's face it, the last American carrier with substantial Cuba experience had a big blue globe on the tail!
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:15 am

LAXintl wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Has AS said anything. Noticed the LAX flight is full some days.


And some days only 30 people. They have also subbed some days 737-700 and -800s instead of -900ERs on route

I'd suspect route is heavily in the red. With 5-6 hour block times per segment, low fares and marginal demand, not a good recipe.

And to think, AS asked the DOT for double daily frequencies from LAX!


Actually, maybe it has to do with the time of year, but in checking the flights over the next few weeks I'm surprised at how well they're doing. I was not optimistic about the flights doing well but if this is any indication, they're actually doing quite well.
 
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:27 am

jumbojet wrote:
first off, I can see B6, AA, DL, UA and to a lesser extent WN vying for flights to Cuba but AS, really? They don't serve any other market in the Caribbean, they have zero experience and no real argument to serve Cuba. AS is a regional, Pacific N,W. oriented airline.


AS has 30+ years of experience flying to Mexico and while Cuba is in the Caribbean, it's still very much like much of Latin America. And yet, while you seem completely stumped as to how a "regional, Pacific NW oriented airline" could bother expanding beyond the area they have the most experience in, they seem to be doing okay on their daily Cuba flight from LAX. They also seemed to do okay on their flights from LAX to Costa Rica and Mexico and a couple of east coast cities. What's even crazier - they manage to do really well flying to several east coast cities and 4 Hawaii cities from San Diego. Too bad they don't know their place in the world. Maybe you should sent a note to their management to let them know that they've expanded beyond their means. :roll:
Last edited by ASFlyer on Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:29 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Not surprised you picked them out of the crowd, though.


Yeah, shocking :roll:
 
MaksFly
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:22 am

100 flights a day from Canada to Cuba?!? WOW. Impressed.

This thread was an eye opener.

I know Cuba is popular with Russians, or was, until they started going to Dominican Republic as well, and Turkey, and Cyrpus, and Thailand, and Maldives.... (and the wealthy ones go to Miami). =)

Personally would love to go to Cuba before every other hotel is a Marriott or Hilton and there is a McDonalds on every corner.

Can totally understand the route envy between the carriers. Are we at the peak in airlines? PERHAPS
 
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:02 am

Apparently the price of hotel rooms has tripled and quadrupled and Americans aren't going to carry thousands in cash and feel comfortable with it. It's a c-f.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:06 am

MaksFly wrote:
100 flights a day from Canada to Cuba?!? WOW. Impressed.

This thread was an eye opener.

I know Cuba is popular with Russians, or was, until they started going to Dominican Republic as well, and Turkey, and Cyrpus, and Thailand, and Maldives.... (and the wealthy ones go to Miami). =)

Personally would love to go to Cuba before every other hotel is a Marriott or Hilton and there is a McDonalds on every corner.

Can totally understand the route envy between the carriers. Are we at the peak in airlines? PERHAPS


I think that 100 number refers to Saturdays in peak season. Even that though seems like a stretch. Demand in winter is huge though.
 
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:01 am

dc10lover wrote:
Funny how airlines fought over the Cuba market then find out the pot of gold isn't there.

SY has yet to start service, and have even asked for a delay.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
RollerRB211
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:30 am

Dominion301 wrote:
MaksFly wrote:
100 flights a day from Canada to Cuba?!? WOW. Impressed.

This thread was an eye opener.

I know Cuba is popular with Russians, or was, until they started going to Dominican Republic as well, and Turkey, and Cyrpus, and Thailand, and Maldives.... (and the wealthy ones go to Miami). =)

Personally would love to go to Cuba before every other hotel is a Marriott or Hilton and there is a McDonalds on every corner.

Can totally understand the route envy between the carriers. Are we at the peak in airlines? PERHAPS


I think that 100 number refers to Saturdays in peak season. Even that though seems like a stretch. Demand in winter is huge though.


Peak is 49 each way while trough is as low as 8 round trip flights. Canadians use Cuba to access their beaches, just like they use the DR. I suspect US airlines think long term there will be VFR traffic in Cuba so they have scheduled according, just like they do in the DR.
 
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:30 am

LAXintl wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Has AS said anything. Noticed the LAX flight is full some days.


And some days only 30 people.


As someone who has access to those flight loads, those days are extremely rare; the market is clearly growing, albeit slowly.
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grbauc
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:49 am

And I believe it's still not fully opened up yet. Don't you have to go under an educational our research ploy.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:57 am

I'm guessing that some of the public, and most of the airlines, assumed that full (or close-to-it) normalization of relationships would likely follow the authority to serve... and now that that's apparently not going to be the case, they're reacting accordingly.

So long as the categories requirement + lack of CC access are in place, you're just not going to see many USAmericans flock to Cuba, without necessity.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
B777LRF
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:05 am

The in-laws visited last month for a couple of weeks, and were deeply disappointed. They didn't do the usual 'all inclusive' trip, but rather went out and about staying in small B&Bs as well as larger hotels. The service was non-existent, the quality of lodging dodgy at best and the food was boring bland and a mixture of either chicken and rice, or chicken and rice.

The all-inclusive resorts might well be nice, but one all-inclusive is the same as the next one, routinely delivering an experience that is totally removed from the local culture. Not worth traveling half-way around the world for, and if it's a caribbean sun & sea vacation you're after, there are far, far better options available than Cuba.
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jumbojet
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:45 am

enilria wrote:
It's bad for everybody, probably worst for WN and best for AA.


in terms of yields or loads or....both?

I think, naturally, because the largest population of Cubans is in the south Miami catchment area, DL and AA stand to do the best over time with the MIA and ATL fights having the most financial success. The least success I would say will go to AS out in the LA area. Even though LA has the 3rd largest Cuban population in the USA, its still less than 100,000. As pointed out in the 3rd post of this thread, AS HAV flights can go out close to full but can also go out empty. The HAV - LAX AS flights appear to return to LAX for the most part and on most days empty.

Not to pick on AS but they have zero brand recognition in the 'Eastern' Caribbean market. The last airline I think anyone would even consider flying to HAV is AS and the reason for that is brand recognition. Just the name AS and most people I talk to think regional, North West Pacific confined airline with a few East Coast routes.
 
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enilria
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:16 pm

jumbojet wrote:
enilria wrote:
It's bad for everybody, probably worst for WN and best for AA.


in terms of yields or loads or....both?

I think, naturally, because the largest population of Cubans is in the south Miami catchment area, DL and AA stand to do the best over time with the MIA and ATL fights having the most financial success. The least success I would say will go to AS out in the LA area. Even though LA has the 3rd largest Cuban population in the USA, its still less than 100,000. As pointed out in the 3rd post of this thread, AS HAV flights can go out close to full but can also go out empty. The HAV - LAX AS flights appear to return to LAX for the most part and on most days empty.

Not to pick on AS but they have zero brand recognition in the 'Eastern' Caribbean market. The last airline I think anyone would even consider flying to HAV is AS and the reason for that is brand recognition. Just the name AS and most people I talk to think regional, North West Pacific confined airline with a few East Coast routes.

In terms of profitability. AA has always has a corner on the business traveler from MIA and that's the core of the market. AA also has the best schedule. WN has some poorly selected routes, limitations on foreign currency sales, and I think the point that the market gravitates toward traditional sales methods that WN doesn't support was also spot on.
 
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:08 pm

You keep mentioning Canada-Cuba like it has any bearing to the current situation

1. US credit cards dont work in Cuba -means you have to walk around with a lot of cash on vacation which raises security concerns - also means hotel/car rental issues ...many people have to use Airbnb

2. Politics between US and Cuba is better; but not good

3. Flights (at least at my airline) are just empty.

4. Aircraft sit for extended periods of time on the ground due to slot issues (they need to be very precise in HAV) so flights are overblocked. Also, turning a standard narrowbody in Cuba takes 2 hours as opposed to 1 hour at other islands. This means aircraft utilization takes a hit...making Cuba ops even more expensive.

No two ways to skin this cat, initially, Cuba has been a bust. Not a little bust either...a big bust.


This was predicted by several of us on a.net in the months leading up to the slot assignments
 
DesertAir
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:17 pm

Cuba is a one way market. You go and return. Cubans have little possibility of leaving the island due to political restrictions on travel.
 
incitatus
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:42 pm

globalcabotage wrote:
(....) No offense to ONT and IND, but USA airlines are incompetent and poorly run, for the most part (too bad AS and the few good airlines are overshadowed by the incompetent US3).


In the context of this thread you will have some difficulty making this case. AS made the dumbest decision of all picking a route that is 5+ hours long from an airport where it does not have strong connectivity. AS should have stayed in the sidelines.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
lavalampluva
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:48 pm

It's interesting how a small market in, Canada, like YQT can fill a 738 once a week and YHZ twice a week, but it's a struggle from LAX and other U.S. cities.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
StuckinCMHland
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:12 pm

I am sorry to sound so harsh, but this is my honest opinion.

The real reason why US flights are not so crowded is because the US has enough memories of how obscene Cuba's totalitarian leadership is that not many people want to go there. Other countries have either forgotten or are hypocritically ignoring what those evil people are doing to the their population and helping their allies do to the poor folks in Venezuela. Who in their right mind would want to go somewhere as free people to support an island government who are really slave holders on a large plantation?
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:27 pm

Tampa appears to be an exception for Southwest..

http://www.tampabay.com/news/tampa-cuba ... he/2314255

Last time I went flight was about 95% full. Only a couple of open seats each way.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:54 pm

I suspect the US airlines need to do some code sharing with each other as/if markets develop. And they need a travel agency that can match travelers with the experience they want, and financial services to take care of payments and cash. Does Airbnb take care of payments?
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ikramerica
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:02 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
I suspect the US airlines need to do some code sharing with each other as/if markets develop. And they need a travel agency that can match travelers with the experience they want, and financial services to take care of payments and cash. Does Airbnb take care of payments?

Doesn't matter. I don't think this is going to last long under the trump administration. With Angel Castro still in charge there was no reason for it.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Skywatcher
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:17 pm

The average American will do the winter beach thing in FLA (maybe Aruba or Cayman which is sort of like FLA). That's about as adventurous as you're going to see. There's still little business traffic without U.S. banks being involved. I guess it boils down to VFR but weren't they always allowed to go to Cuba? It's for sure going to be a long struggle to normalize this market.
As a Canadian I've been to Cuba like many other people I know. Canadians have vastly different travel patterns than the average American. We all crave the sun in winter, most of us have passports and we have no political baggage. Cuba is a cheap, easy all inclusive winter getaway for people with less disposable income. The food is crap though.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:25 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
The average American will do the winter beach thing in FLA (maybe Aruba or Cayman which is sort of like FLA). That's about as adventurous as you're going to see. There's still little business traffic without U.S. banks being involved. I guess it boils down to VFR but weren't they always allowed to go to Cuba? It's for sure going to be a long struggle to normalize this market.
As a Canadian I've been to Cuba like many other people I know. Canadians have vastly different travel patterns than the average American. We all crave the sun in winter, most of us have passports and we have no political baggage. Cuba is a cheap, easy all inclusive winter getaway for people with less disposable income. The food is crap though.


That's it right there. Canadians, well...the rest of the world except for the U.S. have always been travelling to Cuba. This is the first year where Americans have been able to. I wouldn't call the U.S./Cuba issue a failure, but it has been slow to gain traction.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
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enilria
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:26 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
The average American will do the winter beach thing in FLA (maybe Aruba or Cayman which is sort of like FLA). That's about as adventurous as you're going to see.

Can't argue that, but Cuba will get to that point...in 5-10 years.
Skywatcher wrote:
Cuba is a cheap, easy all inclusive winter getaway for people with less disposable income. The food is crap though.

Interesting about the food...
lavalampluva wrote:
It's interesting how a small market in, Canada, like YQT can fill a 738 once a week and YHZ twice a week, but it's a struggle from LAX and other U.S. cities.

From everything I've heard the Canadians are hurting because of the massive influx of U.S. passengers have taken all the room inventory. That's another part of why the flights are all empty. There is nowhere to stay that meets most American expectations once you get past the inventory that was already occupied with Canadians and Europeans. The market needs time and I don't see the U.S. carriers losing money for that long to wait.

The traffic may be building, but it will take a long time to build infrastructure, it is still difficult to go as a vacation trip, and the new-ness will wear off as well which will probably cause a dip in traffic if the travel limits are not quickly lifted.
 
richierich
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:40 pm

I stayed at an AirBNB in Cuba, great experience...but this isn't the forum for that.
The reality is that until restrictions are lifted on the island - and Americans don't have to sign affidavits stating why they are going to Cuba - the current supply of flights from the US mainland is going to be far more than demand. It's an unfortunate situation for the US airlines that operate there but nobody wants to be the one to blink first and cancel/suspend service altogether.
None shall pass!!!!
 
wnflyguy
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:02 pm

HAV-TPA and HAV-FLL have good loads.
SNU and VRA not so much! But every one else is struggling on NON HAV markets also.
Unfortunately for WN they don't have anything to down grade to.
I see in a years time Only HAV sticking around for Cuba service.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
phllax
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:12 pm

ryan78 wrote:
The advantage we Canadians have is when we go to Cuba, we book an entire package that includes our flights, all-inclusive hotel and bus transfers, and it is dirt cheap ($800 CAD average for a week at a decent hotel). The US are no where near close to what the Canadian carriers offer in terms of package holidays. Couple that with the fact that it is still hard to travel to Cuba for leisure or vacation and it's a recipe for disastrous flight loads from the US carriers.


Bingo! That summarizes everything that is different between the US and Canadian markets to Cuba.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:20 pm

ASFlyer wrote:
AS has 30+ years of experience flying to Mexico and while Cuba is in the Caribbean, it's still very much like much of Latin America.


No, it isn't. For U.S. residents and for American air carriers it is the very definition of a restricted market (both Cubans out and Americans in) and a niche market (VFR or the categories of allowable visits).
 
md3
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:40 pm

Re: WN CEO Says Cuba Flights Poor, but Have Patience

Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:23 pm

LAXintl wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Has AS said anything. Noticed the LAX flight is full some days.


And some days only 30 people. They have also subbed some days 737-700 and -800s instead of -900ERs on route

I'd suspect route is heavily in the red. With 5-6 hour block times per segment, low fares and marginal demand, not a good recipe.

And to think, AS asked the DOT for double daily frequencies from LAX!


AS hasn't operated anything other than a -900ER. I've also noticed the inaccuracies displayed in FlightAware, FR24, etc., but again, inaccurate. Even publicly, one could pull tail numbers and see always N4**AS.

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