In an article on flightglobal the CEO said there should be a fleet announcement in the next 6 months.

Aircraft that are being considered are new ATR 42-600s, ATR 72-600s, used CRJ 200s, ERJ 135s, and ERJ 145s. One of these options will replace the SAAB 340s.

3M wants to expand to more markets in the Caribbean and North of Florida.

http://dashboard.flightglobal.com/app/# ... newsstream

Maybe we can finally get the 3M service to MSY and BHM that was announced, but not started a few years back.

Perhaps someone might post who the hell 3M are when they're at home, especially since the link requires a login.

SamYeager2016 wrote:

Perhaps someone might post who the hell 3M are when they're at home, especially since the link requires a login.

3M is Silver Airways, the Florida-based regional carrier that flies a fleet of Saab 340s mostly on intra-Florida, Bahamas and perhaps(?) Cuba routes.

Can Silver even afford new ATRs? I'm guessing used ATRs or CRJs.

SamYeager2016 wrote:

Perhaps someone might post who the hell 3M are when they're at home, especially since the link requires a login.

3M is Silver Airways. It doesn't take much to google an airlines IATA code

Polot wrote:

Can Silver even afford new ATRs? I'm guessing used ATRs or CRJs.

There's a lot of cheap ERJs and CRJs in the boneyards. My guess is they'll start there. Not sure of their bank accounts however.

Polot wrote:

Can Silver even afford new ATRs? I'm guessing used ATRs or CRJs.

Here is a quote from the article:

Alternatively, Silver could replace the Saabs with new ATR 42s or ATR 72s, then in several years consider a possible jet acquisition, says Teittinen.

Sami Teittinen is the CEO.

dabpit wrote:

SamYeager2016 wrote:

Perhaps someone might post who the hell 3M are when they're at home, especially since the link requires a login.

3M is Silver Airways. It doesn't take much to google an airlines IATA code

Well, one could also assume that 3M stands for the Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing Company and they're looking to replacing their company jet fleet which they're using for flights to the Caribbean.

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

Well, one could also assume that 3M stands for the Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing Company and they're looking to replacing their company jet fleet which they're using for flights to the Caribbean.

That was my first assumption!

ATR42 would probably fit best but it is a bit big (additional 12-16 seats), while the ERJ fits better size-wise but higher costs associated with jets plus less runway performance. Curious if they will go bigger to ATR72 and become a larger carrier with more presence in Florida + Caribbean + SE USA, there's plenty of untapped markets that could take a couple daily ATR42/72s.

msycajun wrote:

3M is Silver Airways, the Florida-based regional carrier that flies a fleet of Saab 340s

Polot wrote:

Can Silver even afford new ATRs?

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

Well, one could also assume that 3M stands for the Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing Company

In case Silver cannot afford new replacements, they could turn to their namesake (codesake?) and order plenty of this to fix the A340s... ...


http://www.interplas.com/product_images ... 1000px.jpg


Even the color fits their company name.

TWA772LR wrote:

There's a lot of cheap ERJs and CRJs in the boneyards. My guess is they'll start there. Not sure of their bank accounts however.

6 months ago (Sep 2016) Silver Airways was acquired by Versa Capital Management LLC, a private equity firm based in Philadelphia, PA. I assume they are the ones backing up the fleet renewal.

Due to Silver's short stage lengths, the runway performance of the E145 becomes less of an issue. Even BIM has a 5400 ft. runway. EYW is 4801 ft. and AA proved a few years ago that a E145 can operate from there to South Florida without a significant penalty and I think EYW-TPA and EYW-MCO would be safe as well. All other fields they fly into are over 6000 ft.

Considering that it appears they exited Cuba in this week's OAG filing, I would guess it's time for a new business plan because that was 3M's great hope that is now dashed.

Devilfish wrote:

msycajun wrote:

3M is Silver Airways, the Florida-based regional carrier that flies a fleet of Saab 340s

Polot wrote:

Can Silver even afford new ATRs?

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

Well, one could also assume that 3M stands for the Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing Company

In case Silver cannot afford new replacements, they could turn to their namesake (codesake?) and order plenty of this to fix the A340s... ...


http://www.interplas.com/product_images ... 1000px.jpg


Even the color fits their company name.

It's what holds the company together.

readytotaxi wrote:

It's what holds the company together.

Beat me to it. Grrrrr!

enilria wrote:

Considering that it appears they exited Cuba in this week's OAG filing, I would guess it's time for a new business plan because that was 3M's great hope that is now dashed.

If Cuba was their great hope, they need their heads examined.

The Saabs have to be getting pretty old now, considering production ended in 1999. I think it's more about figuring out what's next with the fleet. Maybe they can sell a few Saabs to GLO here at MSY. Of course once the fleet changes, the economics of routes change and that may affect their overall strategy.

scbriml wrote:

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

Well, one could also assume that 3M stands for the Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing Company and they're looking to replacing their company jet fleet which they're using for flights to the Caribbean.

That was my first assumption!

Same here. I thought 3M was looking for a corporate jet.

scbriml wrote:

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

Well, one could also assume that 3M stands for the Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing Company and they're looking to replacing their company jet fleet which they're using for flights to the Caribbean.

That was my first assumption!

I guess a couple of us still remember the airline Silver descended from - Gulfstream International.

Most of their Beech 1900Ds flew in Continental Airlines paint.

It was the same acronym - 3M.

In the old forum, we could hover over the codes and it would usually tell us who it was for. With the current setup it's probably best to list the airline by name unless it's one of the larger ones.

My vote is for the ATR but with all the RJ's sitting around it'll probably be one of those.

msycajun wrote:

enilria wrote:

Considering that it appears they exited Cuba in this week's OAG filing, I would guess it's time for a new business plan because that was 3M's great hope that is now dashed.

If Cuba was their great hope, they need their heads examined.

The Saabs have to be getting pretty old now, considering production ended in 1999. I think it's more about figuring out what's next with the fleet. Maybe they can sell a few Saabs to GLO here at MSY. Of course once the fleet changes, the economics of routes change and that may affect their overall strategy.

.
Cuba is becoming a disaster for Silver. The niche they have to smaller islands in the Bahamas can only get them so far. They've tried and stopped a number of inta-Florida routes. They aren't flying EAS for UA at IAD anymore. Not sure throwing RJ's into the mix is the answer.

SamYeager2016 wrote:

Perhaps someone might post who the hell 3M are when they're at home, especially since the link requires a login.

Its a Portuguese airline that operates ATRs on behalf of TAP Portugal. They had some A310s in the past. I'm presuming that they want to do some charter flying again, possibly on behalf of TAP - A321NEOs perhaps?

VSMUT wrote:

SamYeager2016 wrote:

Perhaps someone might post who the hell 3M are when they're at home, especially since the link requires a login.

Its a Portuguese airline that operates ATRs on behalf of TAP Portugal. They had some A310s in the past. I'm presuming that they want to do some charter flying again, possibly on behalf of TAP - A321NEOs perhaps?

?? Silver flys Saab 340s out of Florida, USA.

32andBelow wrote:

VSMUT wrote:

SamYeager2016 wrote:

Perhaps someone might post who the hell 3M are when they're at home, especially since the link requires a login.

Its a Portuguese airline that operates ATRs on behalf of TAP Portugal. They had some A310s in the past. I'm presuming that they want to do some charter flying again, possibly on behalf of TAP - A321NEOs perhaps?

?? Silver flys Saab 340s out of Florida, USA.

Ah, my bad. Confused them with White Airways who have silver planes and an equally unoriginal name...

I would go for CRJ700 or CRJ900 for them or possibly used CRJ200.

The Saabs in their current fleet are all former XJ aircraft that were really put through the wringer in the upper midwest for about 10-15 years depending on the particular frame. They're pretty worn out. I'm fairly sure they got a good deal on them at the time since they were coming onto the market at the same time that the former Colgan Saabs were already clogging the market. At the same time nice low cycle used 50 seat jets were pretty hard to find (the only ones available were high cycle former OH or YV CR1's and CR2's).

I thought it was an odd choice since Gulfstream had previously flown the E120 and determined that its economics weren't worth it and that the Saab's economics are very comparable to the E120's (if not worse).

There are some things that I think the E145 would be an improvement over the Saab.

1. Some of their Bahamas routes, particularly MHH and GGT can handle the extra seats. For every Saab departure, Silver is potentially leaving 20 seats of revenue behind vs. an E145 (which has comparable total trip costs).

2. The ERJ would allow more competitive trip times and a better customer experience on the intra-Florida routes where they have competition.

3. The ERJ has more range, which would allow them to explore service deeper into the Caribbean, such as Haiti, the Dominican Republic, or potentially the Cayman Islands. It would also allow reasonable flight times to locations further into the US, such as MSY, BHM, HSV, GPT, MOB, SAV, CHS, AGS, CSG, CHA, ILM, MYR, CAE, GSP, FLO. Not that these are all viable markets, but something like FLO-MCO of ILM-FLL, something that wouldn't really be on the table for them in the past, now is. Various points in Florida to CZM, MID, or CUN would also be a possibility.

TheGeordielad wrote:

I would go for CRJ700 or CRJ900 for them or possibly used CRJ200.

The CRJ700/900 would be a huge capacity increase for them. I could see them getting ex Envoy EMB135/140s, that would give them a jet aircraft without gaining too much capacity at first. Then they can always upgrade to the 145 when the time comes.

I will say without a cohesive business plan it's moot. Which is a shame because independent regionals are far and few in the US.

VSMUT wrote:

SamYeager2016 wrote:

Perhaps someone might post who the hell 3M are when they're at home, especially since the link requires a login.

Its a Portuguese airline that operates ATRs on behalf of TAP Portugal. They had some A310s in the past. I'm presuming that they want to do some charter flying again, possibly on behalf of TAP - A321NEOs perhaps?

But . . . White Airways' IATA code is "WI" rather than "3M".

Btw, the "3M" code has been around since 1988. That was 17 years before White Airways was founded.

(Unrelated sidebar: WI used to belong to California's SwiftAire, out of SBP. Legend has it WI came from the founder, Charlie Wiswell. My colleagues at WI jokingly called their airline "Wiswell International".)

Related: if Silver is looking for larger aircraft, I don't think the EMB-135 would be a big enough step up. The -145 yes. Even the ATR-42 would be a modest increase and still have the potential lower operating cost of the jets. But an old ATR-42 wouldn't bring them much operational benefit over the aging Saabs. They should go new if they have the financing. Used jets would make sense if they can find some that haven't been beaten to death already.

Are Silver's stage lengths long enough to need the higher speed of a jet over the turboprops?

Some of their flights could benefit from the speed of a jet (or faster turboprop). When my airline was doing the SpaceFlex mod in BFM, I used 3M to fly TPA-PNS, then just drive the extra hour to BFM. The flight is scheduled at just under 2 hours and didn't go over water. I didn't mind, the sound of the props knocks me out cold so I got a nice long nap LOL. But that is one of the routes where a faster plane would be nice!

A deal to buy or lease parked Embraer 140s from American Airlines makes way too much sense as those seem to fit into its business model. For those airfields not able to handle jets, the ATR 42 would be nice as well.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

A deal to buy or lease parked Embraer 140s from American Airlines makes way too much sense as those seem to fit into its business model. For those airfields not able to handle jets, the ATR 42 would be nice as well.

Why buy 140's from previous American life when if they wait a bit longer they'll be able to pick up some XJT 145's for probably a similar price, perhaps even XR's. Unless the acquisition costs are so much lower on a 135/140, there's no reason to not get a 145, as the trip costs are basically the same between them.

DiamondFlyer wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

A deal to buy or lease parked Embraer 140s from American Airlines makes way too much sense as those seem to fit into its business model. For those airfields not able to handle jets, the ATR 42 would be nice as well.

Why buy 140's from previous American life when if they wait a bit longer they'll be able to pick up some XJT 145's for probably a similar price, perhaps even XR's. Unless the acquisition costs are so much lower on a 135/140, there's no reason to not get a 145, as the trip costs are basically the same between them.

The XR's will be in the United fleet for the foreseeable future.

Where don't they fly in Northern Florida at this point? DAB, MLB, GNV, ECP, UST come to mind.

DeltaRules wrote:

Where don't they fly in Northern Florida at this point? DAB, MLB, GNV, ECP, UST come to mind.

They just recently pulled out of ECP and GNV prior to that, along with their mx base at GNV.

One airline looking to startup was evaluating the Saab 340 and the ATR42 variants for operations in India.

The SAAB burnt around 590 kgs of fuel for a typical 300nm sector while the ATR42-300 burnt around 670kgs. The extra trip fuel of 80-90 kgs could easily be made up with the extra 14 seats available. Plus ATR support is crucial as is cheap spares and pilot pool.

3M could look for some cheap ATR42-320 series - should be a perfect replacement for the Saabs.

Remember ATR42s and 72s have very similar total operating costs with the 42 having far fewer seats. That is a lot of why NZ went for the Q300 (which is no longer in production) instead of ATR42s.

I hope Silver Airways will add Daytona Beach,Melbourne and more routes in Florida.Their route map shows routes they don't operate like JAX to the Bahamas.

doulasc wrote:

I hope Silver Airways will add Daytona Beach,Melbourne and more routes in Florida.Their route map shows routes they don't operate like JAX to the Bahamas.

They fly from JAX to MHH (Marsh Harbour), Saturday only service usually however.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SIL66

doulasc wrote:

I hope Silver Airways will add Daytona Beach,Melbourne and more routes in Florida.Their route map shows routes they don't operate like JAX to the Bahamas.

Would love to see them add some domestic service down to the Florida Keys as well. Marathon (MTH) is long overdue to get some scheduled service back hopefully! FLL-MTH would be great! I hope Silver can weather the tough times ahead, I love seeing their little Saab's hopping around in the Southern sunshine.