GordonCC
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KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:56 am

A KLM 747 appears to have caught fire while at its gate. I saw the flames as our United flight was taxing by. Emergency services arrived quickly and extinguished the flames.

-Colin
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:05 am

Here is a video from twitter, looks like a ramp vehicle caught fire.

https://twitter.com/benmarks/status/839654201147994113
 
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LAXintl
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:06 am

Looks like the lower deck loader on the back of the aircraft caught on fire.

Video:
https://twitter.com/benmarks/status/839 ... 13/video/1

=
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
nikeherc
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:19 am

Wow, that occurred while the fuel truck was still connected. Scary.
DC6 to 777 and most things in between
 
cylw
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:19 am

PH-BFE I think.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:32 am

If it's a ramp vehicle, shouldn't it have been immediately driven/towed away from the aircraft as soon as it caught fire? Maybe it was, the video doesn't reveal that...just asking...
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:51 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
If it's a ramp vehicle, shouldn't it have been immediately driven/towed away from the aircraft as soon as it caught fire? Maybe it was, the video doesn't reveal that...just asking...


Uh no.... If the thing is on fire especially if it's in the engine compartment I'm not going near that thing.
 
DeltaB717
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:06 am

ikolkyo wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
If it's a ramp vehicle, shouldn't it have been immediately driven/towed away from the aircraft as soon as it caught fire? Maybe it was, the video doesn't reveal that...just asking...


Uh no.... If the thing is on fire especially if it's in the engine compartment I'm not going near that thing.


Yup, and I'm with you! Also, if it was the loader that was on fire, it looks as though it has a unit on the very end of it, if not partly onboard the aircraft.
 
FGITD
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:12 am

I believe it was actually the belt loader that caught fire, in which case there's not a whole lot to do. It's pretty much a conveyer belt with an engine, and a driver's seat bolted to the side of the engine
 
FrancisBegbie
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:54 am

ikolkyo wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
If it's a ramp vehicle, shouldn't it have been immediately driven/towed away from the aircraft as soon as it caught fire? Maybe it was, the video doesn't reveal that...just asking...


Uh no.... If the thing is on fire especially if it's in the engine compartment I'm not going near that thing.


Not attacking you personally, but if the plane is being fueled and there are 400 people boarding at the same time a few feet overhead and then that belt loader starts burning, what is the actual policy?

(you guessed it, I regularly am one of the 400, so keen to find out what should happen in these cases).
 
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PW100
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:07 pm

Isn't it normal procedure to wait with boarding until fueling has been competed? Don't know just asking.
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Carp12c
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:54 pm

FrancisBegbie wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
If it's a ramp vehicle, shouldn't it have been immediately driven/towed away from the aircraft as soon as it caught fire? Maybe it was, the video doesn't reveal that...just asking...


Uh no.... If the thing is on fire especially if it's in the engine compartment I'm not going near that thing.


Not attacking you personally, but if the plane is being fueled and there are 400 people boarding at the same time a few feet overhead and then that belt loader starts burning, what is the actual policy?

(you guessed it, I regularly am one of the 400, so keen to find out what should happen in these cases).


Not to nitpick, but PH-BFE is one of 12 combi aircraft in the KLM fleet, so it would only be capable of carrying 268 people. If you had watched the video, you would have noticed some cargo about to be put into the aft cargo section behind the passenger cabin.
 
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litz
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:50 pm

Re: moving the vehicle away ... many of these are hydraulic based, including the drive system ... when it's parked, a PTO is utilized to operate the belts, lifters, etc ... so while it's being used for that purpose, it can't be driven (and vice-versa) ...

So to drive it, not only would you have to brave a burning vehicle, but you'd have to switch it out of PTO mode (which leads back to the "it's burning and on fire" issue) ... best to just bail, and call the fire department.
 
b747400erf
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:14 pm

People expect rampers to sacrifice themselves for the greater good? They don't get paid that much.
 
dmanonice
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:39 pm

PW100 wrote:
Isn't it normal procedure to wait with boarding until fueling has been competed? Don't know just asking.
I'm sure it varies by airline at the airline i work for we board during fueling.

As for equipment leaking or on fire I believe the process is to leave it in place and have fire services deal with it, no sense in risking your life just get everyone else out of the way.
Mike
 
iamlucky13
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:34 am

FrancisBegbie wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
If it's a ramp vehicle, shouldn't it have been immediately driven/towed away from the aircraft as soon as it caught fire? Maybe it was, the video doesn't reveal that...just asking...


Uh no.... If the thing is on fire especially if it's in the engine compartment I'm not going near that thing.


Not attacking you personally, but if the plane is being fueled and there are 400 people boarding at the same time a few feet overhead and then that belt loader starts burning, what is the actual policy?

(you guessed it, I regularly am one of the 400, so keen to find out what should happen in these cases).


In general (including non-airline situations), a standard policy is that people who are not trained to deal knowledgeably with dangerous situations do not knowingly enter dangerous situations, such as trying to drive a burning vehicle. There is necessarily some discretion here, but airport firefighters are the people trained to deal with fires on or around aircraft, not ramp workers.

If you get clear of a danger, then emergency responders can work unimpeded. If you get in over your head and are injured or incapacitated, then they probably have to assist you before they can devote their attention to the danger.

There are standards for fire resistance for aircraft intended to protect the cabin long enough for an evacuation and/or for firefighters to arrive during worse situations than this. For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6d-gxvUp60
 
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77west
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:24 am

So will it be a write off?


Sorry I had to.... :duck: :duck: :duck: :duck:
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:51 am

Question is, did they get the pax off the plane as soon as they saw smoke, or were there even any on board?
 
FrancisBegbie
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:04 am

Carp12c wrote:
FrancisBegbie wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:

Uh no.... If the thing is on fire especially if it's in the engine compartment I'm not going near that thing.


Not attacking you personally, but if the plane is being fueled and there are 400 people boarding at the same time a few feet overhead and then that belt loader starts burning, what is the actual policy?

(you guessed it, I regularly am one of the 400, so keen to find out what should happen in these cases).


Not to nitpick, but PH-BFE is one of 12 combi aircraft in the KLM fleet, so it would only be capable of carrying 268 people. If you had watched the video, you would have noticed some cargo about to be put into the aft cargo section behind the passenger cabin.


Doesn't materially change the question, does it?
 
FrancisBegbie
Posts: 144
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:08 am

iamlucky13 wrote:
FrancisBegbie wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:

Uh no.... If the thing is on fire especially if it's in the engine compartment I'm not going near that thing.


Not attacking you personally, but if the plane is being fueled and there are 400 people boarding at the same time a few feet overhead and then that belt loader starts burning, what is the actual policy?

(you guessed it, I regularly am one of the 400, so keen to find out what should happen in these cases).


In general (including non-airline situations), a standard policy is that people who are not trained to deal knowledgeably with dangerous situations do not knowingly enter dangerous situations, such as trying to drive a burning vehicle. There is necessarily some discretion here, but airport firefighters are the people trained to deal with fires on or around aircraft, not ramp workers.

If you get clear of a danger, then emergency responders can work unimpeded. If you get in over your head and are injured or incapacitated, then they probably have to assist you before they can devote their attention to the danger.

There are standards for fire resistance for aircraft intended to protect the cabin long enough for an evacuation and/or for firefighters to arrive during worse situations than this. For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6d-gxvUp60


I did not expect anybody to jump into a burning vehicle with a ready to explode fuel tank and drive it into the sunset. Just wondering whether the response was indeed the firefighters, or something more left-field like pushing it a few yards out of the way with say a luggage lorry.

Anyways, thanks everybody for chipping in with thoughts and experiences.
 
B777LRF
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:14 am

FrancisBegbie wrote:
Not attacking you personally, but if the plane is being fueled and there are 400 people boarding at the same time a few feet overhead and then that belt loader starts burning, what is the actual policy?

(you guessed it, I regularly am one of the 400, so keen to find out what should happen in these cases).


We impress on our staff not to play heros, as they are more likely than not to injure themselves whilst not accomplishing very much, if anything. Mounting a burning vehicle is a definitive 'no-no', the procedure is to alert fire services and the gate staff, who in turn will alert any onboard crew members. The crew will then, if necessary, proceed with an evacuation of any onboard passengers - usually after consulting with the fire services.

PW100 wrote:
Isn't it normal procedure to wait with boarding until fueling has been competed? Don't know just asking.


Some airlines allow it, others don't. Some airports allow it, others don't. Some NAAs allow it, others don't. So there's not really a case of 'normal'.
Signature. You just read one.
 
shankly
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:18 am

B777LRF wrote:
FrancisBegbie wrote:
Not attacking you personally, but if the plane is being fueled and there are 400 people boarding at the same time a few feet overhead and then that belt loader starts burning, what is the actual policy?

(you guessed it, I regularly am one of the 400, so keen to find out what should happen in these cases).


We impress on our staff not to play heros, as they are more likely than not to injure themselves whilst not accomplishing very much, if anything. Mounting a burning vehicle is a definitive 'no-no', the procedure is to alert fire services and the gate staff, who in turn will alert any onboard crew members. The crew will then, if necessary, proceed with an evacuation of any onboard passengers - usually after consulting with the fire services.

PW100 wrote:
Isn't it normal procedure to wait with boarding until fueling has been competed? Don't know just asking.


Some airlines allow it, others don't. Some airports allow it, others don't. Some NAAs allow it, others don't. So there's not really a case of 'normal'.


A couple of times recently at both JNB and CPT crew has made an announcement during boarding along the lines the aircraft is still being refueled so do not fasten seat belts until sign is illuminated. Both BA.
L1011 - P F M
 
factsonly
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Re: KLM 747 Gate Fire at ORD

Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:06 pm

77west wrote:
So will it be a write off?


Sorry I had to.... :duck: :duck: :duck: :duck:


:rotfl: :)

Aircraft was delayed, but has not been out of service:

2017-03-09 - KL692 Toronto (YYZ) Amsterdam (AMS) 18:10 EST 18:22 07:15 CET Landed 06:50
2017-03-08 - KL691 Amsterdam (AMS) Toronto (YYZ) 13:40 CET 14:36 15:40 EST Landed 15:57
2017-03-08 - KL612 Chicago (ORD) Amsterdam (AMS) 16:25 CST 21:12 07:10 CET Landed 11:11
2017-03-08 - KL611 Amsterdam (AMS) Chicago (ORD) 12:40 CET 17:15 14:25 CST Landed 18:27

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