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KiloRomeoDelta
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:27 am

MrBretz wrote:
I wonder what the entire story is. I tend to believe that the man must have been very angry to cause the diversion. Only time will tell.


No need to wait, the investigation is over. FBI declared the man did nothing wrong. No charges pressed, and he flew to Honolulu on another flight.

The only loser here is Hawaiian. Their marketing department must be banging their head against a wall with a mai-tai in hand. $$$$ of publicity campaign around "nicer than other airlines to fly to Hawaii" and what they are getting is free worldwide publicity as "LOL look this cheapskate airline charged $12 for blanket!"
 
alfa164
Posts: 3718
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:22 am

oldannyboy wrote:
My two cents on this -and my views are entirely personal, and as such many will disagree... so feel free to stone me..
I think this is a fairly typical incident that perfectly represents what the US has come to these days, where the general paranoia and hysteria towards perceived threats (terrorism particularly) permeates and conditions people's behavior and reactions to an extent that it has become really difficult -if not downright dangerous- to embark on a discussion, or an argument, with anybody -particularly if they are performing a professional duty or are wearing a uniform.
You've got to be VERY VERY careful in picking your words, and make sure nothing of what you say -whether true, or hypothetical- gets perceived as a threat. I am personally extremely aware of this and make a point of being particularly courteous and polite, especially in circumstances where I feel I have to debate something/confront someone or ask for an explanation, etc. It's not nice feeling, let's be frank.
Here we are talking about a 66-year old man, who was cold. He might have been wearing flip-flops and a tank top, but maybe not. Maybe it was actually cold in the cabin - and HA is actually known for keeping their cabins very 'cool'. It doesn't take much to lower the a/c a bit, or address the needs of an older gent (who perhaps might incidentally be a demanding a$$hole). It's pretty bad too that they have no extra blankets on offer for a flight that despite being classified domestic, is almost as long as some shorter transatlantic flights. And honestly, as unhappy a choice his wording might have been, "I would like to take someone behind the woodshed for this" hardly seems like the sort of phrase that would warrant a citizen's arrest.... c'mon!
I think HA is the one loosing this game all around: they had to divert the flight and inconvenience everybody else, they spent extra money on this unnecessary action, the gentleman was indeed then let go by the Police (wasted Police time too!), and they are receiving a ton of bad press. I would think that accommodating the needs of a passenger would be the better and cheaper choice for an airline, but clearly it's not the preferred option. Sad..


:checkmark: I think you nailed it. And I am betting the FA's (and maybe even the Pilots) were far to young to have ever known - or understand - what "taking someone to the woodshed" means.

airportugal310 wrote:
The $12 blankets referred to are off the "souvenir" cart. Passengers in First get a blanket and those who pay for Extra Comfort seats. There are very few if any extra blankets on domestic flights except JFK.


And I guess those overpriced bottles of water the really cheap ULCC's charge for are from their "souvenir" collection of H2O? Sorry, I understand the airlines may charge for "premium" items, but there are basic needs all passengers have; they should not be denied them for a quick buck. HA will rapidly get the reputation of another "Spirit"... and that is not good.

PITingres wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
The $12 blankets referred to are off the "souvenir" cart. Passengers in First get a blanket and those who pay for Extra Comfort seats. There are very few if any extra blankets on domestic flights except JFK. Tough luck...no need to get rowdy if there's no free ones around. Need to dress appropriately regardless of where you're going. Just bc it's 80 in Hawaii doesn't mean it will be 80 on the plane.

Uh, what is "appropriately"? Are you saying that Hawaiian guarantees cold airplanes? I've been on flights where I was about to pass out from the heat (and me just wearing jeans and a tee shirt), and flights where my fingers started to ache from the cold. Same airline and same routing.
Expecting people to know what temperature a flight will be is pretty much the same as expecting them to be able to foretell the future. I'm afraid your statement is completely unhelpful.


:checkmark: :checkmark: The flight was from Las Vegas (generally in the 70's and 80's this time of year) and Honolulu (even warmer). It is hardly "appropriate" - or reasonable - to anticipate that you would need to add a fur-lined parka to be comfortable on your flight.

HALFA wrote:
I would like to clarify a few things that was not reported correctly in the news.
The "$12.00" blanket that was widely reported is not $12.00. Hawaiian Airlines no longer provides complimentary pillows and blankets on domestic flights with the exception of flights both to and from JFK as well as all red eye flights to and from Hawaii. Day time domestic flights to and from Hawaii do not have complimentary blankets.#Alternative Facts


As I understand it, HA's LAS flight is an overnight flight to LAS, but a daytime return. You mean they pack "just enough" free blankets to get to Vegas, but try to be sure there are none available for the return flight? That must take a lot of careful planning by revenue management to be sure cold passengers can be gouged on their way to Honolulu. :roll:

KiloRomeoDelta wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
I wonder what the entire story is. I tend to believe that the man must have been very angry to cause the diversion. Only time will tell.

No need to wait, the investigation is over. FBI declared the man did nothing wrong. No charges pressed, and he flew to Honolulu on another flight.
The only loser here is Hawaiian. Their marketing department must be banging their head against a wall with a mai-tai in hand. $$$$ of publicity campaign around "nicer than other airlines to fly to Hawaii" and what they are getting is free worldwide publicity as "LOL look this cheapskate airline charged $12 for blanket!"


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: I first heard about this on BBC last night... so the whole world may have an opportunity to "learn" about HA. And not in a good way...
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
UA777EWRTLV
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:17 am

MrBretz wrote:
All I can add is each and every HA flight I have been on, either interisland or to/from the mainland, has been staffed by very polite personnel. And on mainland flights, you get a free meal with wine. And I recall a mai tai as we approached the islands last time. The incident is very out of character from what I have observed. I wonder what the entire story is. I tend to believe that the man must have been very angry to cause the diversion. Only time will tell.


Agreed
 
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Rookie87
Posts: 291
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:33 am

Rajahdhani wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Here we are talking about a 66-year old man, who was cold. He might have been wearing flip-flops and a tank top, but maybe not. Maybe it was actually cold in the cabin - and HA is actually known for keeping their cabins very 'cool'. It doesn't take much to lower the a/c a bit, or address the needs of an older gent (who perhaps might incidentally be a demanding a$$hole). It's pretty bad too that they have no extra blankets on offer for a flight that despite being classified domestic, is almost as long as some shorter transatlantic flights. And honestly, as unhappy a choice his wording might have been, "I would like to take someone behind the woodshed for this" hardly seems like the sort of phrase that would warrant a citizen's arrest.... c'mon!
I think HA is the one loosing this game all around: they had to divert the flight and inconvenience everybody else, they spent extra money on this unnecessary action, the gentleman was indeed then let go by the Police (wasted Police time too!), and they are receiving a ton of bad press. I would think that accommodating the needs of a passenger would be the better and cheaper choice for an airline, but clearly it's not the preferred option. Sad.


To add, all this for hypothetically $12.00 (assumed market value). At what point, does the flight supervisor not have a talk with this guy, and hand him a blanket to shut him down/up? In the grand scheme of things - what will be the cost of settling this issue? More, or less - than a though, an 'act of compassion', the cost of shrink (a whopping $12.00 lost revenue), and an act of decency with the affected crew member (sit them down, give them a few minutes alone, in private to relax, have them work another part of the cabin, and speak to the passenger about having no further contact with any other member of staff, save for the flight supervisor - and that one further 'issue' will resolve in an indisputable landing, his actions being his liability). Isolation, diffusion, offer an acceptable range of behavior and options via a cease and desist 'talking to'. If you wish to get graphic/gangster - walk him to back cabin, the lavs/galley - and have the chat there. In passing, at the end - remark how much this small space, and a woodshed have in common.

Moreover,the majority of HA's business is that of transporting passengers on the trans-Pacific routes. They have served millions on these routes, for decades, with a different types (and at stages of technology). Unlike most other carriers, it has to handle yet another 'unique' challenge of operation - warm weather (and associated clothing) on, at least one side of the flight, year round. Is this the first they are noting of this phenomenon? Or, can we surmise - that they willingly know of, and plan to profit on this trend? Thus, this would lead to them feeling the sting of a 'penny-wise, pound-foolish' approach to what can actually be a decently good marketing tool, and physical representation of the warm nature of the Hawaiian Islands.

I mean, the headlines write themselves, and is it worth the bad press? Hell, I bet if you passed a hat around on board you could find 12 dollars donated quicker than someone could say 'diversion' - especially considering the real costs that every passenger then endured by being diverted/delayed.


You make some good points but, what really happened during this back and forth? What was his tone? I highly doubt this plane would have diverted due to just nothing. I mean, HA would know the costs and made a decision to divert.
The police meet aircraft for worst behavior and these people get let go. You're stuck in a metal tube, you can't let somebody off in the middle of the ocean. Maybe his behavior was the determining factor to the diversion than what his comment can ever describe to us readers
Furthermore, where do you draw a line? If I complain enough I should get something for free?
NOW what about the old lady behind him that sees he got a free blanket so he could be quiet? And the mom and her kids who actually bought those blankets that you now gave away for free because he got upset and you want to be the "nicer" airline. How do you handle her? Refund? You might as well tell your company that you want to give the house away for free because you can't say no to someone who feels entitled because he's too cold or whatever other excuse he wants to give you. Do you demand a refund at the movie theater when it's too cold? It comes to a point where people have to be realistic about a situation. This mature man for all we know threw a fit over a blanket and even spoke with representatives while in flight lol (which I'm just baffled about), now what would happen if this escalated? What would you do with this same man decided to be abusive because he never got his blanket for free since he rightfully was too cold?
Get him off the plane
 
alfa164
Posts: 3718
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:58 am

Rookie87 wrote:
Rajahdhani wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Here we are talking about a 66-year old man, who was cold. He might have been wearing flip-flops and a tank top, but maybe not. Maybe it was actually cold in the cabin - and HA is actually known for keeping their cabins very 'cool'. It doesn't take much to lower the a/c a bit, or address the needs of an older gent (who perhaps might incidentally be a demanding a$$hole). It's pretty bad too that they have no extra blankets on offer for a flight that despite being classified domestic, is almost as long as some shorter transatlantic flights. And honestly, as unhappy a choice his wording might have been, "I would like to take someone behind the woodshed for this" hardly seems like the sort of phrase that would warrant a citizen's arrest.... c'mon!
I think HA is the one loosing this game all around: they had to divert the flight and inconvenience everybody else, they spent extra money on this unnecessary action, the gentleman was indeed then let go by the Police (wasted Police time too!), and they are receiving a ton of bad press. I would think that accommodating the needs of a passenger would be the better and cheaper choice for an airline, but clearly it's not the preferred option. Sad.

To add, all this for hypothetically $12.00 (assumed market value). At what point, does the flight supervisor not have a talk with this guy, and hand him a blanket to shut him down/up? In the grand scheme of things - what will be the cost of settling this issue? More, or less - than a though, an 'act of compassion', the cost of shrink (a whopping $12.00 lost revenue), and an act of decency with the affected crew member (sit them down, give them a few minutes alone, in private to relax, have them work another part of the cabin, and speak to the passenger about having no further contact with any other member of staff, save for the flight supervisor - and that one further 'issue' will resolve in an indisputable landing, his actions being his liability). Isolation, diffusion, offer an acceptable range of behavior and options via a cease and desist 'talking to'. If you wish to get graphic/gangster - walk him to back cabin, the lavs/galley - and have the chat there. In passing, at the end - remark how much this small space, and a woodshed have in common.
Moreover,the majority of HA's business is that of transporting passengers on the trans-Pacific routes. They have served millions on these routes, for decades, with a different types (and at stages of technology). Unlike most other carriers, it has to handle yet another 'unique' challenge of operation - warm weather (and associated clothing) on, at least one side of the flight, year round. Is this the first they are noting of this phenomenon? Or, can we surmise - that they willingly know of, and plan to profit on this trend? Thus, this would lead to them feeling the sting of a 'penny-wise, pound-foolish' approach to what can actually be a decently good marketing tool, and physical representation of the warm nature of the Hawaiian Islands.
I mean, the headlines write themselves, and is it worth the bad press? Hell, I bet if you passed a hat around on board you could find 12 dollars donated quicker than someone could say 'diversion' - especially considering the real costs that every passenger then endured by being diverted/delayed.


You make some good points but, what really happened during this back and forth? What was his tone? I highly doubt this plane would have diverted due to just nothing. I mean, HA would know the costs and made a decision to divert.
The police meet aircraft for worst behavior and these people get let go. You're stuck in a metal tube, you can't let somebody off in the middle of the ocean. Maybe his behavior was the determining factor to the diversion than what his comment can ever describe to us readers
Furthermore, where do you draw a line? If I complain enough I should get something for free?
NOW what about the old lady behind him that sees he got a free blanket so he could be quiet? And the mom and her kids who actually bought those blankets that you now gave away for free because he got upset and you want to be the "nicer" airline. How do you handle her? Refund? You might as well tell your company that you want to give the house away for free because you can't say no to someone who feels entitled because he's too cold or whatever other excuse he wants to give you. Do you demand a refund at the movie theater when it's too cold? It comes to a point where people have to be realistic about a situation. This mature man for all we know threw a fit over a blanket and even spoke with representatives while in flight lol (which I'm just baffled about), now what would happen if this escalated? What would you do with this same man decided to be abusive because he never got his blanket for free since he rightfully was too cold?
Get him off the plane


And you also make some good points, but you fail to answer Rajahdhani's (and many other's) question: Was it worth all the cost, all the bad publicity, and all the repercussions... to divert a flight, dump fuel, make an unanticipated landing, delay a plane-full of passengers, and incur all the financial expenses - not to mention the cost of bad puclicity...all because the crew (who had probably never heard the phrase "someone should be taken to the woodshed") refused to accommodate an elderly man who was so cold on the flight that he demanded a blanket? Was it?

And do you think the nabobs at HA headquarters now think it was the best solution?
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
alfa164
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:06 am

UA777EWRTLV wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
All I can add is each and every HA flight I have been on, either interisland or to/from the mainland, has been staffed by very polite personnel. And on mainland flights, you get a free meal with wine. And I recall a mai tai as we approached the islands last time. The incident is very out of character from what I have observed. I wonder what the entire story is. I tend to believe that the man must have been very angry to cause the diversion. Only time will tell.

Agreed


I flew HA from MNL to HNL a few years ago; I also found them to be polite and competent. I might tell five friends about my experience; you might tell ten about yours. But because of the dubious decisions of the crew on this flight, millions of people have now heard a different story..

You can shout to high heavens about how great HA was on your flight, but it will be hard to counter the public relations disaster this incident has created.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
HALFA
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:06 am

As I understand it, HA's LAS flight is an overnight flight to LAS, but a daytime return. You mean they pack "just enough" free blankets to get to Vegas, but try to be sure there are none available for the return flight? That must take a lot of careful planning by revenue management to be sure cold passengers can be gouged on their way to Honolulu


HA has 2 daily flights to LAS from HNL. One day light and one red eye flight in each direction. When the HNL to LAS red eye flight arrives in LAS in the early morning, all pillows and blankets are removed from the aircraft as they will be provisioned for the return red eye flight that leaves LAS for HNL at 0150. If passengers are cold on our flights, they only need ask nicely and we will be happy to adjust the temperature in their seating area. Unfortunately, that didn't happen yesterday.
Hawaiian Airlines Since 1929...........
 
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Rookie87
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:12 am

alfa164 wrote:
Rookie87 wrote:
Rajahdhani wrote:
To add, all this for hypothetically $12.00 (assumed market value). At what point, does the flight supervisor not have a talk with this guy, and hand him a blanket to shut him down/up? In the grand scheme of things - what will be the cost of settling this issue? More, or less - than a though, an 'act of compassion', the cost of shrink (a whopping $12.00 lost revenue), and an act of decency with the affected crew member (sit them down, give them a few minutes alone, in private to relax, have them work another part of the cabin, and speak to the passenger about having no further contact with any other member of staff, save for the flight supervisor - and that one further 'issue' will resolve in an indisputable landing, his actions being his liability). Isolation, diffusion, offer an acceptable range of behavior and options via a cease and desist 'talking to'. If you wish to get graphic/gangster - walk him to back cabin, the lavs/galley - and have the chat there. In passing, at the end - remark how much this small space, and a woodshed have in common.
Moreover,the majority of HA's business is that of transporting passengers on the trans-Pacific routes. They have served millions on these routes, for decades, with a different types (and at stages of technology). Unlike most other carriers, it has to handle yet another 'unique' challenge of operation - warm weather (and associated clothing) on, at least one side of the flight, year round. Is this the first they are noting of this phenomenon? Or, can we surmise - that they willingly know of, and plan to profit on this trend? Thus, this would lead to them feeling the sting of a 'penny-wise, pound-foolish' approach to what can actually be a decently good marketing tool, and physical representation of the warm nature of the Hawaiian Islands.
I mean, the headlines write themselves, and is it worth the bad press? Hell, I bet if you passed a hat around on board you could find 12 dollars donated quicker than someone could say 'diversion' - especially considering the real costs that every passenger then endured by being diverted/delayed.


You make some good points but, what really happened during this back and forth? What was his tone? I highly doubt this plane would have diverted due to just nothing. I mean, HA would know the costs and made a decision to divert.
The police meet aircraft for worst behavior and these people get let go. You're stuck in a metal tube, you can't let somebody off in the middle of the ocean. Maybe his behavior was the determining factor to the diversion than what his comment can ever describe to us readers
Furthermore, where do you draw a line? If I complain enough I should get something for free?
NOW what about the old lady behind him that sees he got a free blanket so he could be quiet? And the mom and her kids who actually bought those blankets that you now gave away for free because he got upset and you want to be the "nicer" airline. How do you handle her? Refund? You might as well tell your company that you want to give the house away for free because you can't say no to someone who feels entitled because he's too cold or whatever other excuse he wants to give you. Do you demand a refund at the movie theater when it's too cold? It comes to a point where people have to be realistic about a situation. This mature man for all we know threw a fit over a blanket and even spoke with representatives while in flight lol (which I'm just baffled about), now what would happen if this escalated? What would you do with this same man decided to be abusive because he never got his blanket for free since he rightfully was too cold?
Get him off the plane


And you also make some good points, but you fail to answer Rajahdhani's (and many other's) question: Was it worth all the cost, all the bad publicity, and all the repercussions... to divert a flight, dump fuel, make an unanticipated landing, delay a plane-full of passengers, and incur all the financial expenses - not to mention the cost of bad puclicity...all because the crew (who had probably never heard the phrase "someone should be taken to the woodshed") refused to accommodate an elderly man who was so cold on the flight that he demanded a blanket? Was it?

And do you think the nabobs at HA headquarters now think it was the best solution?


The decision was made, to them it was worth it. To you and Rajahdhani no. This decision isn't going to break HA. It sure hasn't broken Spirit and the myriad of airlines with horrible service.
 
bennett123
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:14 pm

Having worked in complaints for many years, the biggest issue to often T and C's.

Big firms swear by them, but the result lacks flexibility.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:36 pm

Passedv1 wrote:
Rajahdhani wrote:
Slightly on topic - the flight attendant/crew member needs an 'attitude' adjustment.

1). The person should be better empowered. The agent/crew member should feel so empowered that they have the sovereignty to not only react, but properly assess, and then have a capable response to said threat. The threshold of reaction is so low, and with the 'zero-tolerance' policy - we are seeing the ramification of increasingly petty issues effecting massively expensive problems. What was this man's intent? Moreover, what was his capability? What is a reasonable expectation of his capabilities based on his dress, his behaviors, his capabilities...


The attitude adjustment needs to be on the very small minority of people that think when they show up for a flight on an airliner they think they are doing the equivilant of showing up to get a Latte at Starbucks.

The public has come to expect an airline transportation system that is virtually accident free. That is no accident. The aviation system is unlike any other thing an average person is likely to encounter in their everyday lives. The system is safe because decisions are not made in the same way that you might make if the same individual was in a resturaunt and getting a little beligerant about the bad service - which is essentially the analysis you are proposing.

First off, under federal law, the only person that is able to make the decision to divert is the Captain. Everyone else has an advisory only role. Even if Hawaiian had a policy that specifically stated, DO NOT DIVERT for these exact set of circumstances, if the Captain chose to divert, Hawaiian wouldn't be able to do anything about it. Nor, would they be able to do anything punitive to the Captain if he did after-the-fact.

You have to look at it from the Captain's point of view. My personal experience in my 20+ years of airline flying is that 99.99999% of the passengers are able to mind their manners for the relatively short period of time they are on an airplane. So if you are getting this kind of negative attention from the crew you are already in very rare company. Apparently he was not happy at the gate...now, we are over California and there is another issue. This trend is not good.

When I make a decision as a Captain I start doing some worst case scenario analysis...

Option 1: We land at LAX, we take a 2 hour delay. We are in radar contact (and most of the other airplanes helping us avoid a collision). LAX is a company station. We get him off we are on our way. Difficulty (ie chance for screw up) = pretty easy.

Option 2: we press-on. He escalates. He needs to be restrained. We are now 30 minutes short of the mid-point so we have to turn around. Turning around a 500,000 lb jet on a one way track in the middle of the pacific with no radar coverage - what could possibly go wrong! 2 hour flight to SFO (closest point). 1 hour to refuel and then having to start the flight all over again...now the paseengers are REALLY late. Not to mention the risk of another passenger/crew getting injured in the process of restraining passenger. What about the possibility of the beligerant passenger being killed/seriouslly injured by the other passengers (ie SWA incident). Difficulty (ie chance for screw up) = very high.

I don't know what I would have done as I wasn't there but I can absolutely see the temptation to dump into LAX and be done with it. If it is true that the passenger was having issues at the gate or on the ground in LAS, the Captain will probably get more heat for not taking care of it then when it would have been REALLY simple.


You're completely right. I just wanted to post the whole thing again, and thank you for providing the insight, and correcting me on my thinking.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:42 pm

HALFA wrote:
I know the crew involved. I have spoken with one of the flight attendants that worked this flight. I am not able to discuss this incident in detail as I value my employment with HA.
What I think we can all agree on is that whether deserved or not, HA is receiving a lot of negative publicity about this incident.


Even I have to admit - that despite being as 'gung-ho' about it as I was above/prior - there was one thing that did shock me. If he was as much a threat, to act in this way - why did the police not arrest him? Logically something went wrong, enough so that the crew took the step (that they did not have to). As far as I am concerned, the 'blanket' is the end of the argument - the straw that broke the camel's back. I wonder (and God bless that crew) what really happened on board. You're right, though - that with liability flying it's best to remain silent about it (from the perspective of HA).

That said, I am surprised that we do not have video footage of the whole thing, broadcast to youtube.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:49 pm

Rookie87 wrote:
The decision was made, to them it was worth it. To you and Rajahdhani no. This decision isn't going to break HA. It sure hasn't broken Spirit and the myriad of airlines with horrible service.


No, I get that. A 'standard' diversion here, or there - will not really affect things that badly. The issue here is that now, the airlines has suffered the bad reputation. Again, if I were that FA and were in that moment - I could be rightly forgiven for not 'thinking it through' with a maddened man screaming at me. In the 99.9999999999% of cases, this is not an issue. This decision cropped up, and the crew dealt with it appropriately (based on the policies, and strategies they have been equipped with). That said, if this is the 'bar' by which we are going to see planes 'landed', then we are going to be looking forward to more and more cases like this.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:55 pm

aloha73g wrote:
We laughed about it at the time...after we landed safely. No reason to stop now!

What a trooper! I would have had a long cry, in my tub - at my shrink's.

aloha73g wrote:
After I was slapped I thought the passenger (male) may not be responding well to me, and a female F/A who was a few feet away engaged with him so I walked away. He then proceeded to punch her. At this point myself and another male F/A wrestled him to the ground and restrained him. He remained restrained for the remainder of the flight. We were almost halfway at that point so turning around would have been pointless.... we did need to land (the captain agreed), but that was ~150 minutes away (best case scenario) no matter which way we flew.
The man in my situation was on some serious medications, which his wife decided he didn't need that day. He was looking for a door he could open so he could "get off the train."
-Aloha!


You can't write this stuff - oh, wait, well - er...

Haha, what a wild ride! See, this is my now, new default.

"I need off this train" - slap attack!

Backing to the topic, though - you're right - that's very jarring all things concerned. I cannot imagine what it is to 'contain' someone who is improperly medicated, at altitude. I've had the best of luck, and the worst of times - on land.
 
nonrevman
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:53 pm

Now it's on Yahoo, so it is going to cost Hawaiian more than the cost of the diversion. They now have bad press and will be perceived as yet another example of meanness in the skies.

I will join the "there has to have been a better way to handle this than diverting" crowd. Had I been on the flight and overheard all of this, I probably would have paid the $12 for him if that would have meant avoiding the diversion. No doubt the other passengers were upset when they found out that was the only reason the flight diverted.
 
ODwyerPW
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:24 pm

smi0006 wrote:
Sometimes in customer service you have to know when to let the A-holes win.


Exactly! He's a 66 year old man... We used to consider that elderly. Just give him the blanket. 'Taking someone behind the woodshed" can also mean that you'd like to teach someone a lesson in common sense... It's hyperbole... However, we are completely devoid of common sense in this day and age and everyone wants to be offended, terrified, < insert random mob sentiment here>, etc....

So now the airline has made an example of him.... and annoyed every single person on the flight because of the divert. Ridiculous. What ever happended to someone in customer service being big enough to continue smiling, complying with a simple customer request (e.g. I'm old, I'm cold, I'm grumpy, Can I have a free Blanket to keep me warm?) to keep the greater peace and then rolling their eyes privately when out of site to shed off the unpleasant encounter?

I'm in no way defending the passenger. I'm saying the airline made absolutely the wrong call. Pick your battles. Airline definitely lost this one.
learning never stops.
 
gzm
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:54 pm

"We'll take good care of you" (the seventies)
"We'll take more care of you" (the eighties)
"Let us spoil you,too!" (the nineties)
"It is only a glorified bus operation" (the 2000s)
"Good riddance!" (present day)

KiloRomeoDelta wrote:
No need to wait, the investigation is over. FBI declared the man did nothing wrong. No charges pressed, and he flew to Honolulu on another flight.

You think so,my friend.Just wait until that bawler-bully of a passenger who shouted and fumed goes to see his lawyer.This has something to do with "transportation obstruction",or so it is called in my country.That blanket could cost the airline a few thousand dollars.Peanuts. It is obvious that the crew just did not know how to handle this, because they were not taught how to appease difficult passengers. So,they went to their captain,who in turn defended his crew. It makes me think (from my own experience at the gates for six years) that some airline executives have reached the upper echelons of their company without ever starting from the grass-roots: passenger service.First and foremost,a passenger likes to feel flattered because he has chosen to fly with you.Either you feel comfortable with that,or you don't. Secondly,they adopt Ryan-esque methods because they think that by pinching pennies from useless weight they will cut down on their fuel bill. They miss the"big picture" and now they will see it glaring at them.
 
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Rookie87
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:07 pm

Rajahdhani wrote:
Rookie87 wrote:
The decision was made, to them it was worth it. To you and Rajahdhani no. This decision isn't going to break HA. It sure hasn't broken Spirit and the myriad of airlines with horrible service.


No, I get that. A 'standard' diversion here, or there - will not really affect things that badly. The issue here is that now, the airlines has suffered the bad reputation. Again, if I were that FA and were in that moment - I could be rightly forgiven for not 'thinking it through' with a maddened man screaming at me. In the 99.9999999999% of cases, this is not an issue. This decision cropped up, and the crew dealt with it appropriately (based on the policies, and strategies they have been equipped with). That said, if this is the 'bar' by which we are going to see planes 'landed', then we are going to be looking forward to more and more cases like this.


I agree that it would worry me but I highly doubt it...I mean for what I see on planes and we don't divert...lol
I HIGHLY doubt planes would start diverting due to b.s. situations like this. The crew entertained this old man. Gotta wonder why no one volunteered to buy him a blanket like a few on here are saying they would have though lol lol
 
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:57 pm

He must have been really cold. Here's a video of him being taken off the plane, wearing a hoodie and cap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXYNu7bkT5Y
E145 E190 F100 L10/15 DC8 D8S D10 M11 D91/S/5 M80 M90 717 727/S 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/42/43/44 752 762/3/4 77E/L 788 A300 310 319 320 321 333 Concorde
AA AC AF AL AQ AS BN CI CO CX DL EA FL HA HU HY KL MC MU MX NA NC NW OZ PA PI QH RC SQ TI TW UA US WA 9K
 
alfa164
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:28 pm

HALFA wrote:
HA has 2 daily flights to LAS from HNL. One day light and one red eye flight in each direction. When the HNL to LAS red eye flight arrives in LAS in the early morning, all pillows and blankets are removed from the aircraft as they will be provisioned for the return red eye flight that leaves LAS for HNL at 0150.


WOW! Just WOW!! I am shocked that HA intentionally pulls blankets from a flight - even if it does give them the opportunity to sell their "souvenir" piece-of-fleece onboard. Does the website make anyone aware of that? "This is a blanket-provided flight"? "This is a non-blanket flight"?

Now I know someone from HA will say, "We provide blankets on the late-night flights, so people can sleep," but, to me, that is a clear admission that the cabin temperature may be too cold for sleep... and too cold for comfort. People often want to sleep on the daytime flights, too - after all, they are more than six-and-a-half hours - and forcing the to buy warmth seems unfair, since it is provided free to passengers on the later flights.

HALFA wrote:
If passengers are cold on our flights, they only need ask nicely and we will be happy to adjust the temperature in their seating area. Unfortunately, that didn't happen yesterday.


So far, we don't know whether or not he did ask that. And even if he didn't, why couldn't the FA - knowing he was cold - offer to do it? That alone might have defused the situation.

Rookie87 wrote:
The decision was made, to them it was worth it. To you and Rajahdhani no. This decision isn't going to break HA. It sure hasn't broken Spirit and the myriad of airlines with horrible service.


The airline has two ways to answer this situation: 1) to admit they made a mistake, take some corrective action, and offer some sort of compensation to the man (and to the 100+ passengers who were also inconvenienced; or 2) to circle the wagons, take an "us-against-them" (i.e., "employees-vs-passengers") attitude, and attempt to justify what happened. I suspect that they, after careful consideration, will do the former.

Over the past few decades, I have flown UA a few times, and I have seen why their reputation suffered so much. they chose option #2. It appears Oscar is working hard to correct that, but it takes time, effort, and a real determination to change. It hasn't "broken" UA either, but it has sure put them at a disadvantage vis-a-vis AA and DL - not to mention WN. I guess you think HA would be okay to do this.

And I am not sure HA's executives want to be lumped with "Spirit and the myriad of airlines with horrible service", but I suppose you have to do that to justify your position. I guess you are okay with that, too.
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:24 pm

Isn't this is a case of business 101? Giving up a $12 blanket over $12,000 in landing fees and fuel? Unless this man became such a threat/disturbance to the aircraft, crew, or other passengers, there is just no reasonable argument here for this.
A319/A320/A321/A333 712/732/733/734/735/737/738/752/753/762/763 C172 CR2/CR7/CR9 E145/E170/E175/E190
MD82/MD83/MD88/MD90 Q100/Q400
 
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:54 pm

alfa164 wrote:
HALFA wrote:
HA has 2 daily flights to LAS from HNL. One day light and one red eye flight in each direction. When the HNL to LAS red eye flight arrives in LAS in the early morning, all pillows and blankets are removed from the aircraft as they will be provisioned for the return red eye flight that leaves LAS for HNL at 0150.


WOW! Just WOW!! I am shocked that HA intentionally pulls blankets from a flight - even if it does give them the opportunity to sell their "souvenir" piece-of-fleece onboard. Does the website make anyone aware of that? "This is a blanket-provided flight"? "This is a non-blanket flight"?

Now I know someone from HA will say, "We provide blankets on the late-night flights, so people can sleep," but, to me, that is a clear admission that the cabin temperature may be too cold for sleep... and too cold for comfort. People often want to sleep on the daytime flights, too - after all, they are more than six-and-a-half hours - and forcing the to buy warmth seems unfair, since it is provided free to passengers on the later flights.

HALFA wrote:
If passengers are cold on our flights, they only need ask nicely and we will be happy to adjust the temperature in their seating area. Unfortunately, that didn't happen yesterday.


So far, we don't know whether or not he did ask that. And even if he didn't, why couldn't the FA - knowing he was cold - offer to do it? That alone might have defused the situation.

Rookie87 wrote:
The decision was made, to them it was worth it. To you and Rajahdhani no. This decision isn't going to break HA. It sure hasn't broken Spirit and the myriad of airlines with horrible service.


The airline has two ways to answer this situation: 1) to admit they made a mistake, take some corrective action, and offer some sort of compensation to the man (and to the 100+ passengers who were also inconvenienced; or 2) to circle the wagons, take an "us-against-them" (i.e., "employees-vs-passengers") attitude, and attempt to justify what happened. I suspect that they, after careful consideration, will do the former.

Over the past few decades, I have flown UA a few times, and I have seen why their reputation suffered so much. they chose option #2. It appears Oscar is working hard to correct that, but it takes time, effort, and a real determination to change. It hasn't "broken" UA either, but it has sure put them at a disadvantage vis-a-vis AA and DL - not to mention WN. I guess you think HA would be okay to do this.

And I am not sure HA's executives want to be lumped with "Spirit and the myriad of airlines with horrible service", but I suppose you have to do that to justify your position. I guess you are okay with that, too.



It amazes me that you actually believe that an airline will purposely freeze a cabin to force people to have to buy blankets
It amazes me that you also misunderstood what the other poster wrote regarding the blankets that are removed. The dirty blankets and pillows are removed and the other flights get fresh blankets and pillows.
There's a lot of "maybes" in your argument about things you have no clue about.
You don't know what happened for a fact on that plane, you weren't there.
If the cabin was too cold you think the crew wouldn't warm it up? Or are you assuming the crew walk around in winter wear while everyone freezes?
UA has a LOT of issues, customer service is one of many.
HA has amazing service and is well known for their hospitality as many on here have vouched for. This single incident isn't going to lump them with spirit nor will it break them. If a single ridiculous overblown incident would ruin an airline, then none of them would be flying. People still fly UA, Spirit and the like with a reputation of bad service so what really makes you think this is news against HA's success? People like that old man fly every day and start ridiculous arguments every day and others like you just soak it up.
 
definedlogic
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:00 am

Long time reader, but first time poster. Your post compelled me to give you my opinion on HA as previous passenger. Ideally I hope that my views are mines and mines alone, however I have a suspicion that others might feel the same, in which the thoughts should be shared with your management.

As a local born and raised on the Aina in 96821, I grew up and went to school in Honolulu. During my youth, even given the choices between flying with Aloha and the other airlines, I almost always chose Hawaiian for the service in the 90s and early 2000s. I have many great memories at the destinations in which Hawaiian was part of the memory. I graduated and moved to the mainland, but given the nature of my business, I fly back to HNL more than 20 times a year. More than enough to make the highest tier of Pualani. I, however, choose not to fly HA when they started getting infected with the plague called Legacy Carrier Syndrome.
When Hawaiian first received their DigiPlayers (remember those??) they were for rent for $10 dollars as I recall for a Mainland to Hawaii flight in Economy. Given the newness of the technology at the time, I thought it was reasonable. When time passed and parity with the other carriers meant that they were providing PTVs built into the aircraft, Hawaiian was still charging a whopping fee for a five hour flight.
After this, I started prioritizing Delta for my mainland trips with the occasional Hawaiian trips. During a trip, I had to fly LAX-OGG on delta, and needed to connect to OGG-HNL on Hawaiian, on the same 06 paper stock, and on the same PNR. Upon landing on OGG, My family and I were called to the counter in which we were told that we needed to pay the baggage fee, even on an interlined ticket. Since it was the last flight out of OGG to HNL for the day, we needed to pay it, reluctantly. Even though the amount was inconsequential, it seemed like a blatant money grab.
Reading the story of this man and his blanket story, I can relate, and I am even surprised to it, as my parents are getting up in age, it could have been them in that situation. A plane gets cold at altitude. Hawaiian knows this as they provide it to Main Comfort and First Class by default. It is a shame that main cabin does not receive blankets, even on demand, especially since every other Legacy airline provides this service. Clearly there could have been additional blankets from the other classes, which there probably were since Hawaiian did not deny that fact. Then for them to not diffuse the situation shows incompetence in the lack of a macro view on the reputational damage that this could due to this event. It was a blanket. It was an elderly passenger. Passenger was not asking for Gouda from the cheese cart and a glass of Chianti, nor a free watch from the Duty Free cart, But Hawaiian decided that it valued 12 or 10 dollars (the amount does not matter one iota of what was reported by the press, nor the exponential immediate and long term damage)
It’s not like Hawaiian bills itself as a LCC. It is a full-service carrier. Every other carrier has Blankets (if you ask if it isn’t on your seat already). It boggles the mind why they would cut such an insignificant service.
I hope it was worth it for Hawaiian. Diversion and all. It is a disgrace to the Pualani on the tail. They are degenerating to the level of the legacies in the 2000s, when the legacies are improving their service, and empowering their flight attendants to prioritize leeway instead of headway. I doubt you will have a legacy divert a plan, make 200 passengers miss their scheduled whatever.

I hope HA realizes that this is a SNAFU 100 percent their doing, and they will make proper organizational changes to remedy this.
I do not fly Hawaiian at all now, and after this event, my parents will never fly them either as I have informed them of this blanket policy. I don’t think I am alone. The differentiation of HA was always the Aloha spirit, and unfortunately this incident is the final blow that proves that HA completely lost the spirit.


PS.. where the heck is WIFI?

HALFA wrote:
SmithAir747 wrote:
Are these blankets something special (ie, souvenir quality, with a unique airline-specific design or characteristic), worth US$12? Once purchased, can they be taken off the aircraft as souvenirs? Or is this a rental fee for the temporary use of the blankets onboard, which then must be returned? I haven't heard of any other carrier charging for the use of blankets or pillows (and usually they are left onboard after the flight).

SmithAir747


I would like to clarify a few things that was not reported correctly in the news.
The "$12.00" blanket that was widely reported is not $12.00. Hawaiian Airlines no longer provides complimentary pillows and blankets on domestic flights with the exception of flights both to and from JFK as well as all red eye flights to and from Hawaii. Day time domestic flights to and from Hawaii do not have complimentary blankets.
What HA does offer is a souvenir logo fleece pillow and blanket set in a zip up pouch that can be purchased for $10.00, not $12.00, which once purchased, the customer is free to take it with them. It's actually a nice travel set that is quite popular to purchase.
The passenger in question was seated in the back of the aircraft, and he was wearing jeans and a hoodie which you would think would have kept him warm. However. he is 66 and older people tend to get cold easier. He was given the option to purchase the souvenir pillow/blanket set but he declined.
HA does not currently have the ability for passengers to make phone calls from the aircraft while airborne so this was another inaccuracy reported in the news media. The passenger in question did not place a phone call to HA's customer service while airborne.
I know the crew involved. I have spoken with one of the flight attendants that worked this flight. I am not able to discuss this incident in detail as I value my employment with HA.
What I think we can all agree on is that whether deserved or not, HA is receiving a lot of negative publicity about this incident.

Aloha,
HALFA
#Alternative Facts
 
alfa164
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:10 am

Rookie87 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
WOW! Just WOW!! I am shocked that HA intentionally pulls blankets from a flight - even if it does give them the opportunity to sell their "souvenir" piece-of-fleece onboard. Does the website make anyone aware of that? "This is a blanket-provided flight"? "This is a non-blanket flight"? Now I know someone from HA will say, "We provide blankets on the late-night flights, so people can sleep," but, to me, that is a clear admission that the cabin temperature may be too cold for sleep... and too cold for comfort. People often want to sleep on the daytime flights, too - after all, they are more than six-and-a-half hours - and forcing the to buy warmth seems unfair, since it is provided free to passengers on the later flights.

It amazes me that you actually believe that an airline will purposely freeze a cabin to force people to have to buy blankets


I can only go by the evidence at hand, and that is the perception given. In marketing, as they say, "Perception is reality." Do you have any evidence otherwise?

Whatever the reason, this paying passenger (or, to you, this "old man") was uncomfortable. Can you tell us what - anything - the cabin crew to try to ameliorate that?

Rookie87 wrote:
[It amazes me that you also misunderstood what the other poster wrote regarding the blankets that are removed. The dirty blankets and pillows are removed and the other flights get fresh blankets and pillows.


I read exactly what he said; apparently you did not. The fresh blankets an pillows are removed from the red-eye flight when it lands, and "saved" for only the late return flight. Passengers on the day-returning flight are not, in HA's view, entitled to free pillows and blankets. What part of that did you not understand?

Perhaps you should read it again:

HALFA wrote:
When the HNL to LAS red eye flight arrives in LAS in the early morning, all pillows and blankets are removed from the aircraft as they will be provisioned for the return red eye flight that leaves LAS for HNL at 0150.


Rookie87 wrote:
You don't know what happened for a fact on that plane, you weren't there.


Were you? Then please enlighten us with the facts (not "alternative facts") and tell us what happened.

Rookie87 wrote:
Or are you assuming the crew walk around in winter wear while everyone freezes? .


If the crew is working, they would - by nature of their activity - be warmer than the sitting passenger would be.And cabin crew usually do have various "layers" of clothing as part of their wardrobe.

I have been on many a cold flight (fortunately, the airlines I was flying did offer blankets... without gouging the passenger), where the crew was perfectly happy, but passengers were definitely cold. I was once told by a FA (and I hope some Flight Engineer can either confirm this, or correct me) that there is a nominal cost to warming the cabin.

But I am not the one making assumptions here; I would love to see the evidence. Do you have any to offer?

Rookie87 wrote:
UA has a LOT of issues, customer service is one of many. HA has amazing service and is well known for their hospitality as many on here have vouched for. This single incident isn't going to lump them with spirit nor will it break them.


I don't expect it to "break them"; I had perfectly adequate customer service on my long-haul flight with HA. But for the millions of people who have never flown them, the only thing they may know about HA is this incident. For those people, the perception of Hawaiian and Spirit will not be all that different. And I'll bet it makes it into the jokes of some of the late night shows - and maybe SNL - this week.

Rookie87 wrote:
Spirit and the like with a reputation of bad service so what really makes you think this is news against HA's success? People like that old man fly every day and start ridiculous arguments every day and others like you just soak it up.


As soon as I decipher the language used in this, I will try to reply...

For starters, when an airline starts referring to as passenger as just an "old man", that speaks directly to the tendency to circle the wagons and create an "us-against-them" ("airline-vs-customer") mentality. That's what happened at UA - and, if you are representative of others at HA, it looks to be happening here. You can call passengers names... claim their concerns are" ridiculous arguments"... and say that critics of a misguided decision are "soaking it up"... and that just degrades the image of your airline. If, as you claim, "people like that" start "ridiculous arguments" every day, how many airlines have decided to divert and make an unscheduled stop, and inconvenience more than 100 passengers on those flights? Only one, that I know of. Therein is the problem.

Right now, millions of people see HA in a negative light. Instead of trying to correct that, people like you want to blame the messenger. Just look at the title of this topic; that is the summation of what news outlets all over the world (I heard about it first on BBC) have been reporting. Do you really think that doesn't affect HA's reputation?

That is the evidence. That is the perception. And, as anyone in marketing knows, "perception is reality".

FlyUSAir wrote:
Isn't this is a case of business 101? Giving up a $12 blanket over $12,000 in landing fees and fuel? Unless this man became such a threat/disturbance to the aircraft, crew, or other passengers, there is just no reasonable argument here for this.


:checkmark: Absolutely! But some people just can't grasp the basics...
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Tugger
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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:34 pm

Just throwing in that these blankets cost AS less than $5.00 each and quite likely are purchased for in the $3.00 range. I know this because I have done purchases similar to this in my job.

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Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:32 pm

definedlogic wrote:
Long time reader, but first time poster.


Aloha!
Secondly, I didn't want to re-post the entire thing - but - wow! What an opening post. Very, very, very insightful. Here's to hoping to hearing more about such a fascinating (and somewhat misunderstood by tourists, like me - admittedly, from time to time...).

definedlogic wrote:
I, however, choose not to fly HA when they started getting infected with the plague called Legacy Carrier Syndrome.
When Hawaiian first received their DigiPlayers (remember those??) they were for rent for $10 dollars as I recall for a Mainland to Hawaii flight in Economy. Given the newness of the technology at the time, I thought it was reasonable. When time passed and parity with the other carriers meant that they were providing PTVs built into the aircraft, Hawaiian was still charging a whopping fee for a five hour flight.
After this, I started prioritizing Delta for my mainland trips with the occasional Hawaiian trips.


Thank you for not only providing your logic, buyt the evidence and progressing of not only time (but the evolutions within it). As someone trying to understand, conceptually why you made that decision - it was delicately yet intelligently well enough said that I got it, in a non-confrontational, and calm place. Too often, contemporarily, it would have been offered as 'they suck', and little else. Though these forums can bruise, I'm happy to see someone explain this well. Speaking to the responses that I have received so far, on this topic - the Hawaiian members/crew make are humbling to speak to. So much experience, so much diversity (in the operational challenges that exist), so many development, so much to see, learn and hear from. After this is done - I would relish a 'Hawaiian changes' thread - you know, connecting people and personal histories to show how one of the most dynamic markets in the World, not only changes, but adapts and progresses.

definedlogic wrote:
Reading the story of this man and his blanket story, I can relate, and I am even surprised to it, as my parents are getting up in age, it could have been them in that situation. . Then for them to not diffuse the situation shows incompetence in the lack of a macro view on the reputational damage that this could due to this event. It was a blanket. It was an elderly passenger.


We all are, and surprisingly few of us are actually orphans. I mean, as a nation - we are getting older. It's never good to be on the cutting edge of economics, when it compromises services in a way that outweighs that economic benefit. I mean, I get it - margains are tight. Everyone who has the capability - flies to Hawaii, and HA has to compete against that - and scratch out a premium, enough so to make it their bread and butter. That said, there are other options. As you have demonstrated, despite being 'inconvenient' - you went out of you way, to avoid HA (via the DL trip to OGG), and even then got 'bitten'. It's a black eye of publicity - sadly, against an 'old man'. Those 'old people' are likely the most profitable segment of the population, within which to market the "Hawaiian Experience". The others, are probably so well vested at other carriers, that they can avoid HA with other carriers. How sad, that a story like this, only furthers a wedge. Even now, the airline should be 'ahead' of this debacle - because it only strengthens the positions of competitors. HA has quite ambitious plans for the future, and honestly - if they can 'soften' a smidge - could be the legacy carrier, at the top - when it competes. The reality here is that by capitalizing upon the 'stereotypes' of Hawaiian culture (being warm, caring, hospitable, 'no-hassle'), they could actually use the benefits they have worked so hard on (by being fiscally conservative in the key areas, and surrendering these obvious money grabs) to propel a fascinating future. I mean, being 'Hawaiian' might be something more equitable if people viewed that against the competition; AA, UA, DL (and the HD 777s coming) - and would be profitable enough to 'price in' all the fixings. As is, though - a much more prudent solution, is to keep some of the old blankets (or, hell, some cheap, thin, blankets) on hand, for every flight. Not everyone one will need one, the competitors offer it anyway, and this way you save the next black eye. Secretly roll it out, and roll on.


definedlogic wrote:
It’s not like Hawaiian bills itself as a LCC. It is a full-service carrier. Every other carrier has Blankets (if you ask if it isn’t on your seat already). It boggles the mind why they would cut such an insignificant service. I hope it was worth it for Hawaiian. Diversion and all. It is a disgrace to the Pualani on the tail. They are degenerating to the level of the legacies in the 2000s, when the legacies are improving their service, and empowering their flight attendants to prioritize leeway instead of headway. I doubt you will have a legacy divert a plan, make 200 passengers miss their scheduled whatever.


Ok, so this brings up an interesting point for me. As was broadly reported, he contacted the customer service line, in-flight.

Here's another failure, demonstrated;

1). If I were that agent, I would have related, calmed him a bit (help with diffusing the situation). I would have actually held him on the line (prolounged that interaction, so as to have him cool down a little more - and pass the time a little). While doing so, sign him up for Pualani - and explain that he now has a:

https://www.hawaiianairlines.com/hawaiianmiles/how-it-works/membership-levels
One complimentary "Unlimited TV & More" entertainment pack on
Our A330 Planes when you fly on Our North America routes This pack Features a Variety of Classic movies, TV Shows, music, and games.


thus, instant bonus of the membership and hopefully (God Bless the A330!) keep him occupied/distracted for a few hours.

Then, work with a supervisor to credit him some points (bonus, can only be used on HA, and can expire, and has black out dates...). That's precluding that the agent can't use those point to purchase amenities onboard. If anything, you do want to keep him as a client, and at least give HA another opportunity to better his experience. You assure him that this is a policy, but that we will work on fixing it. More importantly, we want to work to better his experience, right now. I know that this sounds extreme, but I've turned worse situations around - and done more. A stellar agent, or a decent supervisor, could have offered more. For the very least, now you have a line of contact - and an ability to 'make it right'. The last thing you want is him never flying you again (and poising the well of others who will). Well, precluding a landing, and a media opportunity to 'accurately' report.

People are disparaging this man for wearing a hoodie, and jeans. I wonder if Mark Zuckerberg would be impressed. Hell, this man could have been worth millions, maybe not - this is America. While the agent had him on the phone, ask what the issue was. Does he not have cash? They only take CCs? Does he not have one?

https://www.hawaiianairlines.com/hawaiianmiles/credit-card, hint hint - wink, wink. Credit to a credit card. Hell, he ended up having to purchase another ticket, to fly that same day.

"Same-day, one way?
Go ahead sir, spend away...
Your first $1000 nets 35K."

(and yes, that rhymed).

Sure, the CC is pie-in-the-sky - but yet, another option. It would have been less costly, than a diversion.

Hell, I would have booked him on HA the same day, in Main Cabin Extra (and, as the station manager, or customer service manager - hand him the blanket personally, at the gate, to shut any further complaints). Have a discussion with the crew, privately, and let that crew determine if they want him to fly - and if so, what guidelines need to be set up. Again, calm him down, diffuse, inform the new crew and use the 'legacy' to smooth the rough edges. The last thing you want, is him talking to the press. Or worse, if he "can you hear me now..." for a competitor?
 
alfa164
Posts: 3718
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:03 pm

definedlogic wrote:
Long time reader, but first time poster. Your post compelled me to give you my opinion on HA as previous passenger. Ideally I hope that my views are mines and mines alone, however I have a suspicion that others might feel the same, in which the thoughts should be shared with your management.
As a local born and raised on the Aina in 96821, I grew up and went to school in Honolulu. During my youth, even given the choices between flying with Aloha and the other airlines, I almost always chose Hawaiian for the service in the 90s and early 2000s. I have many great memories at the destinations in which Hawaiian was part of the memory. I graduated and moved to the mainland, but given the nature of my business, I fly back to HNL more than 20 times a year. More than enough to make the highest tier of Pualani. I, however, choose not to fly HA when they started getting infected with the plague called Legacy Carrier Syndrome.
When Hawaiian first received their DigiPlayers (remember those??) they were for rent for $10 dollars as I recall for a Mainland to Hawaii flight in Economy. Given the newness of the technology at the time, I thought it was reasonable. When time passed and parity with the other carriers meant that they were providing PTVs built into the aircraft, Hawaiian was still charging a whopping fee for a five hour flight.
After this, I started prioritizing Delta for my mainland trips with the occasional Hawaiian trips. During a trip, I had to fly LAX-OGG on delta, and needed to connect to OGG-HNL on Hawaiian, on the same 06 paper stock, and on the same PNR. Upon landing on OGG, My family and I were called to the counter in which we were told that we needed to pay the baggage fee, even on an interlined ticket. Since it was the last flight out of OGG to HNL for the day, we needed to pay it, reluctantly. Even though the amount was inconsequential, it seemed like a blatant money grab.
Reading the story of this man and his blanket story, I can relate, and I am even surprised to it, as my parents are getting up in age, it could have been them in that situation. A plane gets cold at altitude. Hawaiian knows this as they provide it to Main Comfort and First Class by default. It is a shame that main cabin does not receive blankets, even on demand, especially since every other Legacy airline provides this service. Clearly there could have been additional blankets from the other classes, which there probably were since Hawaiian did not deny that fact. Then for them to not diffuse the situation shows incompetence in the lack of a macro view on the reputational damage that this could due to this event. It was a blanket. It was an elderly passenger. Passenger was not asking for Gouda from the cheese cart and a glass of Chianti, nor a free watch from the Duty Free cart, But Hawaiian decided that it valued 12 or 10 dollars (the amount does not matter one iota of what was reported by the press, nor the exponential immediate and long term damage)
It’s not like Hawaiian bills itself as a LCC. It is a full-service carrier. Every other carrier has Blankets (if you ask if it isn’t on your seat already). It boggles the mind why they would cut such an insignificant service.
I hope it was worth it for Hawaiian. Diversion and all. It is a disgrace to the Pualani on the tail. They are degenerating to the level of the legacies in the 2000s, when the legacies are improving their service, and empowering their flight attendants to prioritize leeway instead of headway. I doubt you will have a legacy divert a plan, make 200 passengers miss their scheduled whatever.
I hope HA realizes that this is a SNAFU 100 percent their doing, and they will make proper organizational changes to remedy this.
I do not fly Hawaiian at all now, and after this event, my parents will never fly them either as I have informed them of this blanket policy. I don’t think I am alone. The differentiation of HA was always the Aloha spirit, and unfortunately this incident is the final blow that proves that HA completely lost the spirit.
PS.. where the heck is WIFI?


Thank you for your insight; you definitely have the perspective of history to see what has happened with HA over the years.

Perhaps Hawaiian Airlines should consider creating something of a "Passenger Advisory Committee" to help then get input from the customer's perspective, and to try to regain the "Aloha spirit" they once had. And I would hope you would be the first person they would invite to join that group.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
Passedv1
Posts: 665
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:40 am

Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:17 pm

Rajahdhani wrote:
HALFA wrote:
I know the crew involved. I have spoken with one of the flight attendants that worked this flight. I am not able to discuss this incident in detail as I value my employment with HA.
What I think we can all agree on is that whether deserved or not, HA is receiving a lot of negative publicity about this incident.


Even I have to admit - that despite being as 'gung-ho' about it as I was above/prior - there was one thing that did shock me. If he was as much a threat, to act in this way - why did the police not arrest him? Logically something went wrong, enough so that the crew took the step (that they did not have to). As far as I am concerned, the 'blanket' is the end of the argument - the straw that broke the camel's back. I wonder (and God bless that crew) what really happened on board. You're right, though - that with liability flying it's best to remain silent about it (from the perspective of HA).

That said, I am surprised that we do not have video footage of the whole thing, broadcast to youtube.


This is definetly not a clear call by any stretch. If you put 100 captains in the exact spot i'm sure you wouldn't get a unanimous answer. I also think that if this were a flight from LAS-JFK they would have been less likely to divert. If they were already over-water - say up to 60ish minutes short of the mid-point - I think it is more likely that they press on.

As far as no police action goes, I wouldn't read too much into as to judging the captain. The police are looking for a crime that DID happen. The Captain is worried about what MIGHT happen.

An analogy...

You find a parking spot in a downtown area, you pull into the spot and on the sidewalk adjacent to the spot are a couple of shady looking characters hanging out. Down the road you see a car pull out of a prime spot in front of a police station no-less.

Do you lock up your car and go...after all...those shady characters haven't done anything illegal. Or do you move your car to the spot in front of the police station?

If after you lock up your car in fromt of the police station you mention to an officer the shady individuals down the road, if he didn't immediatelly go and arrest those individuals would you question your decision to move your car?
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3723
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:02 pm

So... I'm just curious... we're any of you "experts" who seem so incredibly outraged about this whole ordeal ACTUALLY THERE?

That's why I thought. Carry on with with sensationalized discussion void of facts.
 
User avatar
Blimpie
Posts: 311
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:48 pm

Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:38 pm

I wonder if Miranda Waivers will be included in the CoC shortly in the states? :covereyes:

Joking aside, I was on a UA flight to NRT last year with an all Japanese cabin crew, where the guy beside me while on the tarmac was on the phone yelling at his when when she told him, their kid dented their beamer. The comment, "When I get home, I'm gonna kill him" was overheard by the FA who took him at his word, and started to deliberate with the other F/A about turning back to the gate.

A little language barrier context is in order here. The Japanese overall as a whole tend not to teach conversational English very well. In the days when I was teaching it in Japan, would really have to drive home the fact that in the US, that Americans tend to speak figuratively and not literally. It took five minutes of trying to convince the flight crew in Japanese that it was not being spoken in seriousness. And, fortunately we took off on time with further issue. I don't think the guy beside me had any idea what was going on, and was perfectly calm at take off.

But, I think this drives home, just because one person says something that everyone else around him may not view what is said the same way.

In this particular case, I can't seem to grasp why an old man yelling in the phone threatening to take someone out back to flog them as a serious threat. I would think the cabin crew would have sufficient training to cope with an exaggerated pax. I also think in any modern customer service orientated environment that the cabin crew should be empowered to solve a CS issue on-board rather than pass the buck to a rep on the airphone.

It strikes me that the terrorism battle cry is just an easy cop out to actually having to deal with the pax. I get it that FA is primary responsible for the safety of the AC, but it seems like as more and more responsibilities are thrown at them the less and less they are able to do any one particular task as well. Jack of trades and master of none. IMHO, FA are simply over tasked today, and you can see it in the attitudes that many FA show these days.

Unless there is something else to this story, it really does come off as being another a pass-the-buck scenario.
Now get the hell off of my lawn your dang kids!
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9411
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:02 pm

The police, FBI came to the conclusion that the guy did not break the law and did not make a credible threat. There was no physical altercation.

I think that all the staunch defenders of any decision an aircraft crew takes against a passenger should slow down slightly and think about if it was worth it.
 
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Rajahdhani
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:13 pm

Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:01 pm

azjubilee wrote:
So... I'm just curious... we're any of you "experts" who seem so incredibly outraged about this whole ordeal ACTUALLY THERE?

That's why I thought. Carry on with with sensationalized discussion void of facts.


"Forum" is defined as;


https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/forum
forum
noun

1. A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
‘we hope these pages act as a forum for debate’

1.1 A website or web page where users can post comments about a particular issue or topic and reply to other users' postings.
 
CalTex
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:23 pm

Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:34 pm

One factor I haven't seen mentioned yet: the passenger was reportedly sitting in 42A, a window seat. From my experience, seats near the window are often colder than the rest of the cabin.
 
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Rajahdhani
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:13 pm

Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:35 pm

azjubilee wrote:
Thank you for stating the obvious. If I even have to explain my point it's a waste of energy. As mentioned #alternativefacts #fakenews


Calm down, Kelly Anne. This is a forum. If you don't have the energy to explain your point - then why waste our time/resources/space? Asking what is your point, is actually moot here. You have none, you are pointless. Unless you have something factual[*] ( by your own ideals...) to contribute - then move on.

Take Care.

Side note - I would like to take #fakenews behind a wooden shed. Do I get a blanket for that? I've heard they make a lovely souvenir.

The bespoke blanket and pillow here. Plush...

https://thedesignair.net/2013/10/30/hawaiian-airlines-announce-extra-comfort/

Backing to the non-alternative, alternative-facts - and hoping to return to the actual members of the discussion...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39215495
He voluntarily left the flight when it landed in Los Angeles and caught another, Rob Pedregon, a spokesman for the Los Angeles airport police told AFP news agency.
"You know, if I was a passenger on board that plane I would have paid the $12 dollars for him," he added.


Maybe because he left voluntarily, there was no reason to 'arrest' him? I mean, at that point - then as others have stated - the 'crime' only becomes the issue of the blanket (and - more importantly, but less discussed - how to deal with the threat made to the flight attendant). Either way, aircraft landed - passenger deplaned voluntarily (with police escorting him off), and then flew another airline the same day.

The police officer adds a great point. I mean, not that I expect HA to pay a decent enough salary to their employees to justify a decent living...but, really - company can't comp you a blanket? Can't refund you after flight? I mean, if you had to explain it to a supervisor - "It was either I buy this stupid thing, or endure a diversion..." - based on some of the other stories on here (one slap too far, one punch too many...and a Pacific Ocean that is as large as she is wide...) it would be a 'laugh-offable' issue. I get it - once he arrives to a certain level of belligerency - he becomes unworkable. And rightly so, the crew assumed - we can't have an escalation past LAX as ejecting him over the Pacific would be a smidgen illegal.

No matter what - hats off to the HA crew. Looking at it now, taking people to Paradise, can be a real Hell.
 
DDR
Posts: 1734
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:09 pm

Re: Man Refusing To Pay $12 For Blanket Makes Scene--Flight Diverted

Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:17 pm

If the passenger in question was causing a scene so bad that it was scaring other passengers, then HA made the right choice. What if he showed no signs of calming down?

On the other hand, if he was just complaining, then the airline certainly dropped the PR ball on this one. We weren't there so none of us actually know what happened yet.

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