indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:41 pm

Interesting to see DL going to 3X IND-JFK next summer, especially with the addition of the IND-CDG flight. There's an early AM, noon-time and then 4p flight on weekdays. Last couple summers, IIRC, we've had no more than two flights per day during summer and some years that's been pared down to one closer to summertime. All CR9 service.
 
stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:34 pm

IND-JFK isn't just connections beyond the sea, fair amount of market to market.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:45 pm

stlgph wrote:
IND-JFK isn't just connections beyond the sea, fair amount of market to market.


I'd be curious to see the numbers behind this route. It is hard to imagine there's lots of O&D traffic on a route that has so much variability in route frequency throughout the year, while being served by other nearby airports on multiple airlines much more consistently year-round (AA and DL go to JFK, AA and DL to LGA and UA, WN to EWR).
 
jplatts
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:40 pm

indygs wrote:
stlgph wrote:
IND-JFK isn't just connections beyond the sea, fair amount of market to market.


I'd be curious to see the numbers behind this route. It is hard to imagine there's lots of O&D traffic on a route that has so much variability in route frequency throughout the year, while being served by other nearby airports on multiple airlines much more consistently year-round (AA and DL go to JFK, AA and DL to LGA and UA, WN to EWR).


jetBlue prefers to use JFK for most of its domestic routes within the LGA perimeter, and serves BOS, BUF, BTV, CHS, CLT, ORD, DEN, FLL, RSW, HOU, HYA, JAX, MVY, ACK, MSY, MCO, PWM, RDU, ROC, SRQ, SAV, SYR, TPA, IAD, and PVR nonstop from JFK. jetBlue will also be adding nonstop service from JFK to ATL and ORH in 2018, and both ATL and ORH are within the LGA perimeter.
 
stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:03 pm

Pulling this over from another thread - OneJet is launching Albany to Buffalo service, using a new configured E135 for the service.

Sounds interesting.

http://www.aviationpros.com/press_relea ... and-albany

Would love to see this succeed and open up more opportunities for this company, and come back strong to Indianapolis, too.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:48 pm

jplatts wrote:
indygs wrote:
stlgph wrote:
IND-JFK isn't just connections beyond the sea, fair amount of market to market.


I'd be curious to see the numbers behind this route. It is hard to imagine there's lots of O&D traffic on a route that has so much variability in route frequency throughout the year, while being served by other nearby airports on multiple airlines much more consistently year-round (AA and DL go to JFK, AA and DL to LGA and UA, WN to EWR).


jetBlue prefers to use JFK for most of its domestic routes within the LGA perimeter, and serves BOS, BUF, BTV, CHS, CLT, ORD, DEN, FLL, RSW, HOU, HYA, JAX, MVY, ACK, MSY, MCO, PWM, RDU, ROC, SRQ, SAV, SYR, TPA, IAD, and PVR nonstop from JFK. jetBlue will also be adding nonstop service from JFK to ATL and ORH in 2018, and both ATL and ORH are within the LGA perimeter.


Think it makes sense for B6 given their number of connections, but from my previous experience there aren't too many domestic connections at JFK that aren't available via the other DL hubs. But hey, we'd love to have B6 in IND!
 
stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:01 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if DL could sell a significant number of seats JFK-IND based on local traffic. AA, too, for that matter.

Take this with a grain of salt, but DL could be beefing up JFK service ahead of a possible JetBlue arrival. While LGA is more convenient for me, I welcome any and all NYC/IND flights which might keep the airfares reasonable. Sometimes they're great at $250 or so roundtrip, and other times, it's $500 or so roundtrip. to hell with that.

LGA is better for me but I've done Newark and JFK before based solely on convenience of pricing. JFK has a bit ease of access from Brooklyn and Manhattan because of the subway system connections and the LIRR to Jamaica station to the Air Train - given if the system is running, of course.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:25 pm

indygs wrote:
stlgph wrote:
IND-JFK isn't just connections beyond the sea, fair amount of market to market.


I'd be curious to see the numbers behind this route. It is hard to imagine there's lots of O&D traffic on a route that has so much variability in route frequency throughout the year, while being served by other nearby airports on multiple airlines much more consistently year-round (AA and DL go to JFK, AA and DL to LGA and UA, WN to EWR).


IND-JFK
Q1 2017- 39 PDEW
Q2 2017- 89 PDEW

IND-LGA
Q2 2017- 392 PDEW
Q1 2017- 320 PDEW

IND-EWR
Q2 2017- 222 PDEW
Q1 2017- 182 PDEW
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:44 am

September numbers are up... and boy are they interesting
VX-IND-SFO-21%LF-----SFO-IND-41%LF (5 r/t ) :lol: :lol:
UA-IND-SFO-72%LF-----SFO-IND-77%LF

WN-IND-DCA-77%LF----DCA-IND-79%LF
WN-IND-BOS-79%LF----BOS-IND-80%LF
WN-IND-MDW-66%LF---MDW-IND-66%LF
WN-IND-LAX-88%LF-----LAX-IND-91%LF
WN-IND-SAN-80%LF----SAN-IND-74%LF (4 r/t)
WN-IND-MCI-86%LF-----MCI-IND-76%LF
Lots of routes well into the 90%+

AS-IND-SEA-82%LF-----SEA-IND-90%LF

DL-IND-JFK-82%LF------JFK-IND-77%LF
DL-IND-SLC-96%LF------SLC-IND-96%LF

-------June-----
DL-IND-CUN-91%LF-----CUN-IND-90%LF
Y4-IND-CUN-50%LF------CUN-IND-98%LF????
AC-IND-YYZ-88%LF-----YYZ-IND-75%LF
Swift Air-IND-PUJ-80%LF------IND-PUJ-80%LF
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ADrum23
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:40 am

Midwestindy wrote:
September numbers are up... and boy are they interesting
VX-IND-SFO-21%LF-----SFO-IND-41%LF (5 r/t ) :lol: :lol:
UA-IND-SFO-72%LF-----SFO-IND-77%LF

WN-IND-DCA-77%LF----DCA-IND-79%LF
WN-IND-BOS-79%LF----BOS-IND-80%LF
WN-IND-MDW-66%LF---MDW-IND-66%LF
WN-IND-LAX-88%LF-----LAX-IND-91%LF
WN-IND-SAN-80%LF----SAN-IND-74%LF (4 r/t)
WN-IND-MCI-86%LF-----MCI-IND-76%LF
Lots of routes well into the 90%+

AS-IND-SEA-82%LF-----SEA-IND-90%LF

DL-IND-JFK-82%LF------JFK-IND-77%LF
DL-IND-SLC-96%LF------SLC-IND-96%LF

-------June-----
DL-IND-CUN-91%LF-----CUN-IND-90%LF
Y4-IND-CUN-50%LF------CUN-IND-98%LF????
AC-IND-YYZ-88%LF-----YYZ-IND-75%LF
Swift Air-IND-PUJ-80%LF------IND-PUJ-80%LF


What is going on with the VS flight to SFO, why is it so low? I thought these VX SFO routes from IND, BNA and RDU new routes would be popular.
 
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:17 am

ADrum23 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
September numbers are up... and boy are they interesting
VX-IND-SFO-21%LF-----SFO-IND-41%LF (5 r/t ) :lol: :lol:
UA-IND-SFO-72%LF-----SFO-IND-77%LF

WN-IND-DCA-77%LF----DCA-IND-79%LF
WN-IND-BOS-79%LF----BOS-IND-80%LF
WN-IND-MDW-66%LF---MDW-IND-66%LF
WN-IND-LAX-88%LF-----LAX-IND-91%LF
WN-IND-SAN-80%LF----SAN-IND-74%LF (4 r/t)
WN-IND-MCI-86%LF-----MCI-IND-76%LF
Lots of routes well into the 90%+

AS-IND-SEA-82%LF-----SEA-IND-90%LF

DL-IND-JFK-82%LF------JFK-IND-77%LF
DL-IND-SLC-96%LF------SLC-IND-96%LF

-------June-----
DL-IND-CUN-91%LF-----CUN-IND-90%LF
Y4-IND-CUN-50%LF------CUN-IND-98%LF????
AC-IND-YYZ-88%LF-----YYZ-IND-75%LF
Swift Air-IND-PUJ-80%LF------IND-PUJ-80%LF


What is going on with the VS flight to SFO, why is it so low? I thought these VX SFO routes from IND, BNA and RDU new routes would be popular.


Keep in mind, VX just started the route at that time in Sept. I'm sure its higher going into Oct/Nov/Dec.
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:26 pm

Hey, I was looking at Google Flights, and the Wikipedia page. It appears that Delta's IND-SLC is going all year around MAINLINE in 2018. I'm surprised they switched from regional to mainline that quickly during the winter.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:04 pm

zackary747 wrote:
Hey, I was looking at Google Flights, and the Wikipedia page. It appears that Delta's IND-SLC is going all year around MAINLINE in 2018. I'm surprised they switched from regional to mainline that quickly during the winter.


Yep, it seems as though DL is slowing doing away with RJs on the routes that they can:
IND-LAX/CUN/CDG obviously
IND-SLC appears to be going year-round: A319 and A320
IND-MSP all mainline June-September MD90+B717
IND-MCO all mainline B717
IND-RSW seasonal mainline B717
Plus IND-JFK/ATL are getting more frequencies

Routes like BOS/NYC/RDU don't really need to see mainline service, because frequency is much more important on those routes

But I'm not sure where they go from here...

Also, reading the board meeting information from December, it says Marsha Stone gave an Air Service Development Update, anyone know anything about what was said?
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jplatts
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:11 pm

zackary747 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
September numbers are up... and boy are they interesting
VX-IND-SFO-21%LF-----SFO-IND-41%LF (5 r/t ) :lol: :lol:
UA-IND-SFO-72%LF-----SFO-IND-77%LF


What is going on with the VS flight to SFO, why is it so low? I thought these VX SFO routes from IND, BNA and RDU new routes would be popular.


Keep in mind, VX just started the route at that time in Sept. I'm sure its higher going into Oct/Nov/Dec.


One of the big differences between VX and UA is that customers in the Indianapolis area are not as familiar with Virgin America as they are with United or Southwest. Southwest is also going to be adding nonstop service to OAK (which is on the east side of the San Francisco Bay Area) from IND starting on July 15, 2018, but customers in both the Indianapolis area and the San Francisco Bay Area are familiar with Southwest Airlines. In addition, Southwest will be able to connect customers to BOI, GEG, RNO, BUR, LGB, and ONT from IND through OAK after it starts IND-OAK nonstop service and United can connect customers to BOI, GEG, RNO, BUR, and ONT from IND through SFO, but Alaska Airlines (including its Virgin America subsidiary) cannot connect passengers to these destinations from IND through SFO. Southwest also has a frequent flyer base in Indianapolis and the San Francisco Bay Area to support IND-OAK nonstop service, and Southwest has been at both IND and OAK for over 28 years.
 
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nikeson13
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:23 am

jplatts wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:

What is going on with the VS flight to SFO, why is it so low? I thought these VX SFO routes from IND, BNA and RDU new routes would be popular.


Keep in mind, VX just started the route at that time in Sept. I'm sure its higher going into Oct/Nov/Dec.


One of the big differences between VX and UA is that customers in the Indianapolis area are not as familiar with Virgin America as they are with United or Southwest. Southwest is also going to be adding nonstop service to OAK (which is on the east side of the San Francisco Bay Area) from IND starting on July 15, 2018, but customers in both the Indianapolis area and the San Francisco Bay Area are familiar with Southwest Airlines. In addition, Southwest will be able to connect customers to BOI, GEG, RNO, BUR, LGB, and ONT from IND through OAK after it starts IND-OAK nonstop service and United can connect customers to BOI, GEG, RNO, BUR, and ONT from IND through SFO, but Alaska Airlines (including its Virgin America subsidiary) cannot connect passengers to these destinations from IND through SFO. Southwest also has a frequent flyer base in Indianapolis and the San Francisco Bay Area to support IND-OAK nonstop service, and Southwest has been at both IND and OAK for over 28 years.

True statement, almost nobody knows about VX when I mention it in Indiana. The only people that do know are those from the West Coast. Name recognition will definitely be the biggest hurdle for VX and AS at IND and most likely across the Midwest (AS does seem more known to locals than VX, but nothing to the levels that AA, DL, UA, WN, and G4 are currently).
Nikolas
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:48 pm

October numbers have been updated

Through October IND is at 7,304,394 pax
Looking at Current Month (October 2017) vs. Same Month Previous Year (October 2016)
AC-- (+ 30.5%)
G4-- (+ 6.2%)
DL-- (+ 7.6%)
AA-- (+ 1.1%)
WN-- (+ 8.3%)
UA-- (- 0.8%)
F9-- (- 35.1%)
J1-- (+15.6%)

DL and AA are neck and neck right now
In terms of YTD market share
WN-33.12%-- 2,417,274 total pax
AA-22.40%--1,630,940 total pax
DL-22.36%-- 1,626,386 total pax
UA-13.46%-- 988,322 total pax

https://d1j6zi7czwjuok.cloudfront.net/i ... Report.pdf
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indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:33 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
September numbers are up... and boy are they interesting
[b][u]
WN-IND-DCA-77%LF----DCA-IND-79%LF


Still kills me that they got rid of this flight with those kind of numbers in September. Hopefully it'll be back once their fleet grows again. Luckily AA hasn't jacked things up too bad yet on the N/S.
 
indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:37 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
indygs wrote:
stlgph wrote:
IND-JFK isn't just connections beyond the sea, fair amount of market to market.


I'd be curious to see the numbers behind this route. It is hard to imagine there's lots of O&D traffic on a route that has so much variability in route frequency throughout the year, while being served by other nearby airports on multiple airlines much more consistently year-round (AA and DL go to JFK, AA and DL to LGA and UA, WN to EWR).


IND-JFK
Q1 2017- 39 PDEW
Q2 2017- 89 PDEW

IND-LGA
Q2 2017- 392 PDEW
Q1 2017- 320 PDEW

IND-EWR
Q2 2017- 222 PDEW
Q1 2017- 182 PDEW


Not surprised by these numbers. Perhaps DL is banking on more connecting traffic at JFK with that increase.

I will say more than one flight to JFK will be optimal. Booking an IND-DKR/DSS trip in Feb and the DL flight to JFK allows for a connection that is 10 minutes less than the MCT for JFK to continue onwards. That forces a departure three hours early and another stop in ATL.
 
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:52 am

https://www.spreaker.com/user/echochamb ... -rodriguez

So, Mario talks about the airport authority and city are working on some 'big' deal. Any ideas?
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:49 pm

zackary747 wrote:
https://www.spreaker.com/user/echochamber/013-mario-rodriguez

So, Mario talks about the airport authority and city are working on some 'big' deal. Any ideas?


Interestingly enough around the 8:00 mark he discussed the fact that IND is going to become a "connecting point for DL" and that people from outside of IND are going to be flying in for the IND-CDG segment. Also, around the 12:00 mark he mentions that IND beat out several competitors for the CDG flight, but he didn't mention who they were...

I suspect deal has something to do with economic incentives, and bringing a company although I am not sure who...

Should be an interesting 2018....
Last edited by Midwestindy on Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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flymco753
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:59 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
https://www.spreaker.com/user/echochamber/013-mario-rodriguez

So, Mario talks about the airport authority and city are working on some 'big' deal. Any ideas?


Interestingly enough around the 8:00 mark he discussed the fact that IND is going to become a "connecting point for DL" and that people from outside of IND are going to be flying in for the IND-CDG segment. Also, around the 12:00 mark he mentions that IND beat out several competitors for the CDG flight, but he didn't mention who they were...
Same is said about MCO’s AMS flight, from what it sounds like there will be some RJ additions, MCO is becoming more of a reliever to ATL as it goes on.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:03 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
https://www.spreaker.com/user/echochamber/013-mario-rodriguez

So, Mario talks about the airport authority and city are working on some 'big' deal. Any ideas?


Interestingly enough around the 8:00 mark he discussed the fact that IND is going to become a "connecting point for DL" and that people from outside of IND are going to be flying in for the IND-CDG segment. Also, around the 12:00 mark he mentions that IND beat out several competitors for the CDG flight, but he didn't mention who they were...

I suspect deal has something to do with economic incentives, and bringing a company although I am not sure who...


Speaking of companies MidwestIndy, there is a bid to bring a WTC building into the Indy market. Maybe this has something to do with that. He said that we would hear something from city hall, so it's just a matter of time until we know what this is all about.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:51 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
https://www.spreaker.com/user/echochamber/013-mario-rodriguez

So, Mario talks about the airport authority and city are working on some 'big' deal. Any ideas?


Interestingly enough around the 8:00 mark he discussed the fact that IND is going to become a "connecting point for DL" and that people from outside of IND are going to be flying in for the IND-CDG segment. Also, around the 12:00 mark he mentions that IND beat out several competitors for the CDG flight, but he didn't mention who they were...
Same is said about MCO’s AMS flight, from what it sounds like there will be some RJ additions, MCO is becoming more of a reliever to ATL as it goes on.


Yeah, I wish he would have elaborated on that portion, but I wouldn't rule out some additional n/s destinations for DL next year. I haven't seen IND being listed as a connecting point yet for flights to CDG, but I assume it will be in the future...

I could see IND-MEM/SEA/TPA/LAS/AUS being possibilites
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COSPN
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:58 pm

UA has two SFO flights am and pm .. with connections .. so they are trying to run VA out of IND ...

How is SEA doing ?
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:56 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Interestingly enough around the 8:00 mark he discussed the fact that IND is going to become a "connecting point for DL" and that people from outside of IND are going to be flying in for the IND-CDG segment. Also, around the 12:00 mark he mentions that IND beat out several competitors for the CDG flight, but he didn't mention who they were...
Same is said about MCO’s AMS flight, from what it sounds like there will be some RJ additions, MCO is becoming more of a reliever to ATL as it goes on.


Yeah, I wish he would have elaborated on that portion, but I wouldn't rule out some additional n/s destinations for DL next year. I haven't seen IND being listed as a connecting point yet for flights to CDG, but I assume it will be in the future...

I could see IND-MEM/SEA/TPA/LAS/AUS being possibilites


I've seen MSP-IND-CDG & DTW-IND-CDG show up when doing searches on Google Flights.

SEA & AUS seem like the most likely out of those. BNA would be nice as well.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:58 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
October numbers have been updated

Through October IND is at 7,304,394 pax
Looking at Current Month (October 2017) vs. Same Month Previous Year (October 2016)
AC-- (+ 30.5%)


I wonder what caused the big jump in AC's numbers?
 
cvgComair
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:06 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Interestingly enough around the 8:00 mark he discussed the fact that IND is going to become a "connecting point for DL" and that people from outside of IND are going to be flying in for the IND-CDG segment. Also, around the 12:00 mark he mentions that IND beat out several competitors for the CDG flight, but he didn't mention who they were...
Same is said about MCO’s AMS flight, from what it sounds like there will be some RJ additions, MCO is becoming more of a reliever to ATL as it goes on.


Yeah, I wish he would have elaborated on that portion, but I wouldn't rule out some additional n/s destinations for DL next year. I haven't seen IND being listed as a connecting point yet for flights to CDG, but I assume it will be in the future...

I could see IND-MEM/SEA/TPA/LAS/AUS being possibilites

I don't see MEM happening, DL seems "done" with MEM. Besides CVG-MEM, even RDU-MEM was cut. I think AUS/SEA are going to happen, TPA/FLL/LAS seem very likely. I bet IND will see mainline to BOS/LGA/JFK in the near future as well.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:49 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Interestingly enough around the 8:00 mark he discussed the fact that IND is going to become a "connecting point for DL" and that people from outside of IND are going to be flying in for the IND-CDG segment. Also, around the 12:00 mark he mentions that IND beat out several competitors for the CDG flight, but he didn't mention who they were...

I suspect deal has something to do with economic incentives, and bringing a company although I am not sure who...

Should be an interesting 2018....


That teaser was interesting. You could tell he got a little excited about it. It sounded like he was about to say it was going to be big but stopped himself. He mentioned a large economic impact for central Indiana. I am curious what that could be. I would say more FedEx expansion but not sure how much deal making is involved with FX. Maybe this announcement goes back to the comment about DL and the comment about passengers connecting in IND when traveling to CDG. I could see this be a negotiation with DL to open a new focus city.

There are a couple of other things that have popped up in the past that have been forgotten.

1. What happened to the study that was conducted regarding an international air cargo facility at IND?
2. What happened to G4 's comment about coming back to IND to announce more routes this year?
3. What happened to the story about Sun Country servicing cities like IND in 2018?
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:23 pm

cvgComair wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Same is said about MCO’s AMS flight, from what it sounds like there will be some RJ additions, MCO is becoming more of a reliever to ATL as it goes on.


Yeah, I wish he would have elaborated on that portion, but I wouldn't rule out some additional n/s destinations for DL next year. I haven't seen IND being listed as a connecting point yet for flights to CDG, but I assume it will be in the future...

I could see IND-MEM/SEA/TPA/LAS/AUS being possibilites

I don't see MEM happening, DL seems "done" with MEM. Besides CVG-MEM, even RDU-MEM was cut. I think AUS/SEA are going to happen, TPA/FLL/LAS seem very likely. I bet IND will see mainline to BOS/LGA/JFK in the near future as well.


That was my thinking too, but maybe J1 didn't start MEM-IND because MEM-IND with DL was already in the works (yes I'm aware that is a stretch). But I think FX could make that flight success, especially if it was timed with the IND-CDG-IND flight.

DL has a lot of routes that I think could work from AUS, CVG and IND included

LGA/JFK could see mainline, but probably not BOS due to WN.

IndyHoosier wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
October numbers have been updated

Through October IND is at 7,304,394 pax
Looking at Current Month (October 2017) vs. Same Month Previous Year (October 2016)
AC-- (+ 30.5%)


I wonder what caused the big jump in AC's numbers?


I'm interested as well, I think it was because AC went from 2x-3x daily to YYZ.

IndyHoosier wrote:
I've seen MSP-IND-CDG & DTW-IND-CDG show up when doing searches on Google Flights.

SEA & AUS seem like the most likely out of those. BNA would be nice as well.


They show up on Google Flights, but not on Delta.com which is odd. My thinking is DL hasn't edited their schedule yet to allow it

COSPN wrote:
UA has two SFO flights am and pm .. with connections .. so they are trying to run VA out of IND ...

How is SEA doing ?


SEA is doing really well, YTD
SEA-IND-90.19%LF--IND-SEA-87.19%LF

Yeah UA is trying to squash VX though, UA even runs the B737 and A320 fairly frequently to hurt the VX flight even more.... but we will see what will happen.
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ADrum23
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:23 pm

I’d be surprised if IND became a focus city for DL with CVG right down the road, but it is certainly possible. Though don’t they already route traffic through CVG for the CVG-CDG flight?
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:37 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
I’d be surprised if IND became a focus city for DL with CVG right down the road, but it is certainly possible. Though don’t they already route traffic through CVG for the CVG-CDG flight?


Why would CVG have any influence over anyone becoming a focus city? Look at how much WN has grown IND with MDW just up I-65.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:42 pm

I would like to add that carriers are going to have to start defending non hub markets. Just look at what is happening to international service. Foreign carriers are coming in and picking off midsize markets. They are taking traffic away from legacy carriers. Same thing is going to happen to midsize markets when it comes to domestic travel. But instead of foreign carriers, legacy carriers are going to lose the valuable traffic to LCCs and ULCCs. If legacy carriers don't adapt, they are going to lose all of the good traffic to the competition and just be left with the scraps. Travelers want nonstop service. So it is in the best interest of carriers like DL to go after the good local O&D routes. That adds more value for their customers and will help drive customer retention.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:46 pm

Indy wrote:
1. What happened to the study that was conducted regarding an international air cargo facility at IND?
2. What happened to G4 's comment about coming back to IND to announce more routes this year?
3. What happened to the story about Sun Country servicing cities like IND in 2018?


2./3. Mario mentioned new routes would be announced early in 2018, so those could be the announcements in early 2018
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cvgComair
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:55 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
I’d be surprised if IND became a focus city for DL with CVG right down the road, but it is certainly possible. Though don’t they already route traffic through CVG for the CVG-CDG flight?

When they say connecting pax will be on IND-CDG, it is just by coincidence. Both CVG and IND's CDG flights are almost all O&D, connections will not be purposely added through IND, but as DL grows the station, more connection opportunities will be made possible.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:09 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
I’d be surprised if IND became a focus city for DL with CVG right down the road, but it is certainly possible. Though don’t they already route traffic through CVG for the CVG-CDG flight?


I don't see there being a problem, its not like IND would become another hub, just maybe a few more p2p flights here and there and maybe a few connections sprinkled in...
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ADrum23
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:25 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
I’d be surprised if IND became a focus city for DL with CVG right down the road, but it is certainly possible. Though don’t they already route traffic through CVG for the CVG-CDG flight?


I don't see there being a problem, its not like IND would become another hub, just maybe a few more p2p flights here and there and maybe a few connections sprinkled in...


Yeah, it's not a big issue, I just hope it doesn't become redundant and they end up eventually cutting back at one or the other. Then again, after what we saw at ATL last weekend, Delta could use all the relievers it can get.

Who knows, maybe BNA-IND could be launched on Delta Connection, since a WN 737 may be too big of a plane for that route.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:33 am

What I wonder is what kind of announcement regarding IND would come from city hall? Anything air service related has always come from the IAA. If it comes from the city then maybe a big incentive program for FedEx to move forward with massive expansion. But if someone put a gun to my head and made me pick something, I'd say it could have to do with land use at the old terminal location. Maybe a use has finally been identified. So cargo or land use. Or maybe they are one and the same.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:03 pm

Indy wrote:
What I wonder is what kind of announcement regarding IND would come from city hall? Anything air service related has always come from the IAA. If it comes from the city then maybe a big incentive program for FedEx to move forward with massive expansion. But if someone put a gun to my head and made me pick something, I'd say it could have to do with land use at the old terminal location. Maybe a use has finally been identified. So cargo or land use. Or maybe they are one and the same.


Its either land use for the old terminal or incentives for someone likely other the FX I'm pretty sure. I asked someone I know on the City Council, and the only airport related info he had heard was the FedEx incentives (FedEx requested $29.2 million in tax abatement incentives, for the $385 million dollar investment they are making). Maybe the interview was taped earlier this month, and that was the announcement but that seems anticlimactic.

I'm also waiting on the minutes from the last board meeting, because according in the board packet online it said there was an Air Service Development Update from Marsha Stone.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:19 pm

Good news for DL FFs
1. CRJ2 appears to be gone on the IND-RDU route, so now it will be CRJ7s and CRJ9s on that route.
2. IND-CDG goes from 5x weekly back to daily at the end of October.
3. IND-CUN is being upgauged to a Boeing 737-900ER for Spring Break
4. IND-JFK now goes 1x-> 2x daily starting April 3rd, then goes 3x daily for the rest of the year as previously stated
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:26 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Good news for DL FFs
1. CRJ2 appears to be gone on the IND-RDU route, so now it will be CRJ7s and CRJ9s on that route.
2. IND-CDG goes from 5x weekly back to daily at the end of October.
3. IND-CUN is being upgauged to a Boeing 737-900ER for Spring Break
4. IND-JFK now goes 1x-> 2x daily starting April 3rd, then goes 3x daily for the rest of the year as previously stated


You seem to have great access to numbers. Can you post DL seat numbers from July 2nd, 2017 in comparison to what they have scheduled for July 2nd, 2018? I used July 2nd of 2018 because it is a Monday. Maybe you could use the first Monday of July 2018 and compare it to the first Monday of July 2017.

Thanks in advance. :-)
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:44 pm

Indy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Good news for DL FFs
1. CRJ2 appears to be gone on the IND-RDU route, so now it will be CRJ7s and CRJ9s on that route.
2. IND-CDG goes from 5x weekly back to daily at the end of October.
3. IND-CUN is being upgauged to a Boeing 737-900ER for Spring Break
4. IND-JFK now goes 1x-> 2x daily starting April 3rd, then goes 3x daily for the rest of the year as previously stated


You seem to have great access to numbers. Can you post DL seat numbers from July 2nd, 2017 in comparison to what they have scheduled for July 2nd, 2018? I used July 2nd of 2018 because it is a Monday. Maybe you could use the first Monday of July 2018 and compare it to the first Monday of July 2017.

Thanks in advance. :-)


Sorry, I don't have the exact seat numbers from July 2nd, but I can compare July 2017 to what they have scheduled for July 2018
July 2017 outbound seats-107,909
July 2018 outbound seats-122,649 (This number will likely go up)

12.02% total increase in outbound seats

IND-RDU-11% increase in outbound seats
IND-SLC-15% increase in outbound seats
IND-MCO-33% increase in outbound seats
IND-JFK-40% increase in outbound seats
IND-CDG-added

Other routes (LGA/DTW/CUN) will see a decent increase in seats as well
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:07 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Sorry, I don't have the exact seat numbers from July 2nd, but I can compare July 2017 to what they have scheduled for July 2018
July 2017 outbound seats-107,909
July 2018 outbound seats-122,649 (This number will likely go up)

12.02% total increase in outbound seats

IND-RDU-11% increase in outbound seats
IND-SLC-15% increase in outbound seats
IND-MCO-33% increase in outbound seats
IND-JFK-40% increase in outbound seats
IND-CDG-added

Other routes (LGA/DTW/CUN) will see a decent increase in seats as well


Thanks for the numbers. A 12% year over year increase in seats seems like a pretty big increase for an already established carrier. Is it difficult to get the same numbers but for the entire airport instead of just Delta?
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:12 pm

Indy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Sorry, I don't have the exact seat numbers from July 2nd, but I can compare July 2017 to what they have scheduled for July 2018
July 2017 outbound seats-107,909
July 2018 outbound seats-122,649 (This number will likely go up)

12.02% total increase in outbound seats

IND-RDU-11% increase in outbound seats
IND-SLC-15% increase in outbound seats
IND-MCO-33% increase in outbound seats
IND-JFK-40% increase in outbound seats
IND-CDG-added

Other routes (LGA/DTW/CUN) will see a decent increase in seats as well


Thanks for the numbers. A 12% year over year increase in seats seems like a pretty big increase for an already established carrier. Is it difficult to get the same numbers but for the entire airport instead of just Delta?


That would likely take a long time, but I can tell you G4 will see an increase of 25% in July(not including any new nonstops they are supposed to add)
F9 will see a decrease next year
I didn't run the numbers on AS, but they will be close to a 100% increase next year with the addition of IND-SFO (keep in mind they only run 2 flights out of IND)
WN should see a slight increase YOY
UA should be relatively stagnant
AA should be relatively stagnant as well, except for some increases during the spring
Plus I expect to see either SY, NK, or B6 in IND next year so that will increase numbers as well.

Overall I am really excited about the large growth from DL and G4. DL especially since I am DL PM, at the rate DL is growing it seems pretty obvious that DL is interested in the IND market.
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COSPN
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:53 am

AC runs 3x YYZ-IND in the summer 2x off season .. lots of intl connections in and out via YYZ
 
cvgComair
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:24 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Good news for DL FFs
1. CRJ2 appears to be gone on the IND-RDU route, so now it will be CRJ7s and CRJ9s on that route.
2. IND-CDG goes from 5x weekly back to daily at the end of October.
3. IND-CUN is being upgauged to a Boeing 737-900ER for Spring Break
4. IND-JFK now goes 1x-> 2x daily starting April 3rd, then goes 3x daily for the rest of the year as previously stated

I would point out the CDG schedule is probably just a filler, it will be cut down to less than daily in future schedule extensions. CDG-SLC/CVG/RDU are also “daily” right now, but are always cut down to 5-6x/wk.
 
flyboy80
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:52 pm

Has IND-CUN normally been run year-round? I notice it operating, mainline, during the summer? Also, when does RSW stop (DL)? I can't find it in the system, so I imagine its a winter only thing?

So far from the thread the consensus seems to be that Delta will build IND into a sort of focus city, but one of many they may intend to have in their future network; I believe some comments were made about this earlier in the thread. What adds will we see realistically from Delta in 2018, if any, and will mainline capacity and frequency be up in 2018 given MD88/CR2 retirements? The C-series thing isn't worked out yet, and I had for sometime believed, given the comments about the C series operating from NYC, that perhaps there would be some mainline consolidation in some heavy RJ markets while still retaining frequency- for instance one CS100 IND-LGA. I notice there are a total of 10 daily ATLs next summer, is this normal? I seem to believe in the past its been 9?
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:47 pm

I saw this posted on the weekly OAG thread. Has it already been mentioned in here?

AA LAX-IND APR 1.0>1.9 JUN 1.0>1.8 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2
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IndyHoosier
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:02 pm

Indy wrote:
I saw this posted on the weekly OAG thread. Has it already been mentioned in here?

AA LAX-IND APR 1.0>1.9 JUN 1.0>1.8 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2


Kind of new here, what exactly do those numbers mean?
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:22 pm

IndyHoosier wrote:
Indy wrote:
I saw this posted on the weekly OAG thread. Has it already been mentioned in here?

AA LAX-IND APR 1.0>1.9 JUN 1.0>1.8 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2


Kind of new here, what exactly do those numbers mean?


Those numbers are frequencies. For example if a route is 1.0 that means it runs once a day, if it 2.0 it runs twice a day, etc, etc. If it is 1.7-1.9 that means it runs twice a day for the most part, except on maybe Saturday, Sunday, or Tuesday.

Overall I️ believe that is just a repeat of last years schedule, except I️ don’t think IND-LAX was 2x daily during April or August this year, so that is good news.

Also AA added in 2 daily 737s and converted the rest to E175s, so that’s why IND-CLT lost a frequency, before it was scheduled to be all Regional flying.

Good to see more increases from AA!
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:24 am

flyboy80 wrote:
Has IND-CUN normally been run year-round? I notice it operating, mainline, during the summer? Also, when does RSW stop (DL)? I can't find it in the system, so I imagine its a winter only thing?

So far from the thread the consensus seems to be that Delta will build IND into a sort of focus city, but one of many they may intend to have in their future network; I believe some comments were made about this earlier in the thread. What adds will we see realistically from Delta in 2018, if any, and will mainline capacity and frequency be up in 2018 given MD88/CR2 retirements? The C-series thing isn't worked out yet, and I had for sometime believed, given the comments about the C series operating from NYC, that perhaps there would be some mainline consolidation in some heavy RJ markets while still retaining frequency- for instance one CS100 IND-LGA. I notice there are a total of 10 daily ATLs next summer, is this normal? I seem to believe in the past its been 9?


Interesting questions
IND-CUN is not year round but close to it, it operates Sat-only from December 23rd to August 11. After winter is over it will go A320 to B737ER, up from a MD88 last year (I believe this a reaction to WN announcing IND-CUN)
IND-RSW is running daily (B717) for winter break (a first for that route), and then goes sat-only(CRJ9) from late February to August 11.

Capacity is already scheduled to be up 12.02% for July 2018
IND-SLC/CUN/MSP/JFK/RDU/MCO/LGA/CDG are all up substantially for next year

In terms of Frequencies:
IND-SLC could likely go 2x daily soon with the LFs it is getting, IND-RSW may go daily, IND-BOS could go 4x daily

In terms of Capacity:
IND-MSP may go year-round completely mainline, likewise IND-RSW could go completely mainline, IND-BOS/LGA/DTW may see some additional mainline flying

In terms of new routes:
IND-SEA I have heard is very close to fruition, so expect to see that next year.
Expect to see IND-AUS announced either in 2018-2019, DL might try to go daily before WN does
Probabaly see some leisure additions like LAS, TPA, or FLL
NWA used to run IND-SAT/BDL, and I think those could be possibilites as well

Realistically I expect IND-SEA and maybe one other route in 2018, but you should expect to see capacity continue increase as well.

I have heard more than a few focus city rumors in the last few months, but someone on FT mentioned about a year and a half ago that DL had made a 3 year commitment to make IND a focus city, and at the moment it looks that way. So, I wouldn't be surprised if DL was over 50 departures per day by 2019.
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