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hummingbird
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:51 am

guyanam wrote:
OJ used contacts to get dirt cheap planes which its owner Wings Aviation acquired dirt cheap for cash. This means that OJ hasn't been hampered by heavy lease expenses which have tended to drain most other privately owned Caribbean airlines. So they survive on a shoe string.


Alas, you finally got it.

guyanam wrote:
738 fleet which allows more flexibility in scheduling. It also allows more marginal routes to operate like the KIN HAV GEO route that you propose


You do realize adding a B738 is not an overnight thing and there are many regulatory hurdles OJ must cross before they are certified as this will be a new addition to their fleet. It can take up to a year.

guyanam wrote:
BW is planning a KIN HAV POS route and seems to be awaiting governmental approval.


Cuba is playing hardball. They have to protect CU's interest.

gunnerman wrote:
All the Guyana non-stop flights which bypass its KIN hub result in complex scheduling and sometimes a lot of time on the ground


Has to do with technicalities in The OpenSky Agreement. Currently they are allowed to operate a 1 weekly GEO-JFK and vice versa service. To bypass this they are planning "Air Guyana" services that will allow them unrestricted GEO-JFK services.


gunnerman wrote:
OJ should try KIN-HAV-GEO on a scheduled basis instead of the ridiculous charters from multiple Cuba airports.


They could but good luck getting the approval from Cuba.

yankeejuliet wrote:
Five weekly to George Town is too much frequency


Not really the route needs a wide-body. Apparently the current carrier on the route struggles with weight. Plus there are plans to increase import/export between Cuba and Guyana. Lots of pharmaceuticals($$$) out of Cuba.

yankeejuliet wrote:
This service will give Air Guyana a bad reputation before start up


They have to start Air Guyana ASAP to take advantage of the growing travel market.

I expect them to acquire more B757s to start Air Guyana services.
They need to maintain cash flow so they have to keep the planes flying. Expect to see FLL services.

jm079 wrote:
Awesome OJ as when compare to the previous December 2015 it is the fastest growing airlines as B6 and BW offered more seats in December 2015
[/quote]

I agree. The stats for the Fri flights shows the strong southbound flow.
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
guyanam
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:49 pm

hummingbird wrote:
guyanam wrote:
OJ used contacts to get dirt cheap planes which its owner Wings Aviation acquired dirt cheap for cash. This means that OJ hasn't been hampered by heavy lease expenses which have tended to drain most other privately owned Caribbean airlines. So they survive on a shoe string.


Alas, you finally got it.

..


You will note shoe string and ageing fleet. That string seems very frayed at this moment. When BW is in a jam they have (fairly) deep pockets to back them. At least in the short term. Who does OJ have?

.What plane is going to be used? The 767 is more often in maintenance than not this year, and now someone reports that it has an engine issue and the replacement cost is high.

So where is the funding going to come from to get a replacement plane as it appears as if the 767 has now done its duty and ready for the scrap heap?

Until OJ resolves it fleeting issues I don't see that any discussion about new routes is relevant. Clearly the 767 issues has put Air Guyana on hold.

And the competitive situation into GEO might change next year once the runway is finished. B6 is likely to enter given the size of the NYC Guyana VFR market. They are going to enter with low fares based on what they do into BGI and POS. JFK GEO is a 2 airline route so some one(s) will have to go if B6 comes in. As you fully know B6 enjoys strong loyalty among Caribbean people as they are the biggest carrier into the region out of NYC as well as on the NY/FL routes.
 
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hummingbird
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:35 am

guyanam wrote:
You will note shoe string and ageing fleet. That string seems very frayed at this moment


They started with an ageing fleet so these recent maintenance issues should not be a shock.
guyanam wrote:
What plane is going to be used?

More 757s. Lots on the market. Plus they are certified to operate B757s so they will be quickly inducted in the fleet.


guyanam wrote:
The 767 is more often in maintenance than not this year, and now someone reports that it has an engine issue and the replacement cost is high.


More in maintenance???.
1.The incident in GEO was due to another aircraft clipping the rear of the aircraft.
2. Aircraft was then re-introduced and flew for a while then went for Heavy Checks(2-3 months out).
3. Came back into service and then blew engine early August.

guyanam wrote:
So where is the funding going to come from to get a replacement plane as it appears as if the 767 has now done its duty and ready for the scrap heap?


Fly Jamaica Airways (OJ, Kingston Norman Manley) is considering going public as a means of raising additional capital for fleet expansion.

According to Loop News, Captain Paul Reece, who is the airline's chief executive, told the Jamaica Stock Exchange (JSE) Regional Investments and Capital Markets Conference last week that the carrier was looking to acquire four more aircraft needed to open up longhaul routes. Among the target markets currently under consideration are South America and Africa he said.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... ng-via-ipo

guyanam wrote:
And the competitive situation into GEO might change next year once the runway is finished. B6 is likely to enter given the size of the NYC Guyana VFR market. They are going to enter with low fares based on what they do into BGI and POS. JFK GEO is a 2 airline route so some one(s) will have to go if B6 comes in. As you fully know B6 enjoys strong loyalty among Caribbean people as they are the biggest carrier into the region out of NYC as well as on the NY/FL routes.


That does not mean they will have success in the market.

1 JFK-GEO-JFK is a long route that will require crew rests. "Cost Factor"
2. Yields are high in J class. Unless they fly a Mint aircraft they stand no chance competing with the existing carriers.
3. All carriers on the route offer a warm meal. Tell me if a Guyanese will sit 51/2 hours feeding on snacks??
********************************************

OJ speaks about Delays. Apparently the B777 Omni Air lease was a burden on their coffers.

He said on Thursday a plane arrived from New York with passengers and departed Friday night with 377 passengers aboard. Reece said another plane with passengers from Toronto is expected in Guyana on Saturday afternoon and return to Toronto on Sunday after the crew gets its mandatory rest.
He said Fly Jamaica’s next flight from New York to Georgetown would “probably” depart the John F. Kennedy International Airport on Sunday night “because we are working to do that with one of our own airplanes and that is being fixed right now in Kingston (Jamaica).”

https://www.aerotime.aero/en/civil/1971 ... er-backlog

Passengers threaten legal action as chartered flight allegedly turned back on runway
By Ashraf Dabie
Ever since the grounding of an aircraft attached to Fly Jamaica’s fleet over two weeks ago, the airline has been battling with a massive backlog, as the swarms of irate passengers continue to multiply at three of the airports from which the carrier operates.
Hundreds of travellers booked with Fly Jamaica Airways over the past week have been left stranded at the John F Kennedy (JFK) Airport in New York and Pearson International in Toronto, Canada, ultimately resulting in a buildup of passengers at the Cheddi Jagan International Airport; given that there has been an interruption to both in-bound and out-bound services here in Guyana.

http://guyanatimesgy.com/fly-jamaica-ba ... e-backlog/

Ever since the grounding of an aircraft attached to Fly Jamaica’s fleet over two weeks ago, the airline has been battling with a massive backlog, as the swarms of irate passengers continue to multiply at three of the airports from which the carrier operates.
Hundreds of travellers booked with Fly Jamaica Airways over the past week have been left stranded at the John F Kennedy (JFK) Airport in New York and Pearson International in Toronto, Canada, ultimately resulting in a buildup of passengers at the Cheddi Jagan International Airport; given that there has been an interruption to both in-bound and out-bound services here in Guyana.

http://www.inewsguyana.com/fly-jamaica- ... e-backlog/

https://www.stabroeknews.com/2017/news/ ... rustrated/
https://demerarawaves.com/2017/08/26/fl ... r-backlog/
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
A388
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:29 pm

Guys,

Hi Fly will be getting two secondhand A380's and will announce in October for who they will be flying these aircraft. Seeing that the TUI Group uses Jamaica as a cruise ship hub where you receive several cruise ship related charter flights on a single day, is it possible they might want to consolidate this by sending one A380 flight instead of several 787 flights or do these cruise ship charter flights arrive from different destinations in the U.K.? Barbados is also used as cruise ship hub if I remember correctly, right?

I'm just thinking out loud now as it isn't known yet for who Hi Fly will be flying these A380's. Which other airlines are used for cruise ship charters?


A388
 
gunnerman
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:12 pm

hummingbird wrote:

Fly Jamaica Airways (OJ, Kingston Norman Manley) is considering going public as a means of raising additional capital for fleet expansion.

According to Loop News, Captain Paul Reece, who is the airline's chief executive, told the Jamaica Stock Exchange (JSE) Regional Investments and Capital Markets Conference last week that the carrier was looking to acquire four more aircraft needed to open up longhaul routes. Among the target markets currently under consideration are South America and Africa he said.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... ng-via-ipo

On what planet is Reece living? He must be deluded to think that he can compete with the US3 and others on the South America and Africa markets. Reece should be working full-time to get a reliable operation going for his little airline and waste no time on grandiose plans.
 
guyanam
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:30 am

hummingbird wrote:
[
Ever since the grounding of an aircraft attached to Fly Jamaica’s fleet over two weeks ago, the airline has been battling with a massive backlog, as the swarms of irate passengers continue to multiply at three of the airports from which the carrier operates.
Hundreds of travellers booked with Fly Jamaica Airways over the past week have been left stranded at the John F Kennedy (JFK) Airport in New York and Pearson International in Toronto, Canada, ultimately resulting in a buildup of passengers at the Cheddi Jagan International Airport; given that there has been an interruption to both in-bound and out-bound services here in Guyana.

http://www.inewsguyana.com/fly-jamaica- ... e-backlog/

https://www.stabroeknews.com/2017/news/ ... rustrated/
https://demerarawaves.com/2017/08/26/fl ... r-backlog/


Let us just put something to rest here right now. Just because a company wants to do an IPO doesnt mean that they will be successful. Does OJ want to have all the financial disclosures that the regulatory agencies will insist if a stock is to be listed? And when people see how poor OJ is will they want to buy the shares? If the prospects for a successful issue is unlikely who will want to arrange and underwrite it? Caribbean capital markets are very shallow and most investors are looking for dividends.

It doesn't appear as if OJ or its owners have the funds to acquire another plane which is why the IPO discussion came up. What we do know is that OJ lacks the cash flow to lease a plane, especially on reasonable terms. They cannot borrow as they lack assets to guarantee the loan, or the cash flow to guarantee debt service.

Tell me something. Do you think that when people buy a plane ticket they sign up to be stranded for days? Who wants to be told by ground crews that even the owners of the airline don't know when the next flight will operate as they have to scrounge up funds to wet lease a plane?

This summer has been a huge problem for OJ as it reminds people of its early days when severe delays were frequent. Are those days back again now they are once again apparently a one plane airline? While OJ might have valid reasons for this passengers don't care to hear it. When Guyanese begin to classify OJ with DYA then you know that its bad.

Guyanese already fly 5 1/2 hours with no food. They did so with DL. They do so with DYA. Those who need to eat on the plane can buy food at the airport and bring it on board. People are already talking about B6 and there is no word of their plans concerning GEO. The Guyana government will move heaven and earth to get B6 in.

If B6 can make JFK POS work than why not GEO? The plane is in the air a mere 30 minutes longer. In the case o0f JFK POS B6 has to compete with BW which has the fierce loyalty of most Trinidadians. Guyanese are not loyal to any airline. They are however sick of being stranded for days and many will want a major brand if that brand comes in with reasonable fares (in the $600-700 range in off peak periods).

If I were the existing carriers on the JFK GEO I would keep a keen eye on what B6 plans to do as they will definitely be welcomed by a segment of the market. Food or no food.
 
guyanam
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:37 am

gunnerman wrote:
hummingbird wrote:

Fly Jamaica Airways (OJ, Kingston Norman Manley) is considering going public as a means of raising additional capital for fleet expansion.

According to Loop News, Captain Paul Reece, who is the airline's chief executive, told the Jamaica Stock Exchange (JSE) Regional Investments and Capital Markets Conference last week that the carrier was looking to acquire four more aircraft needed to open up longhaul routes. Among the target markets currently under consideration are South America and Africa he said.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... ng-via-ipo

On what planet is Reece living? He must be deluded to think that he can compete with the US3 and others on the South America and Africa markets. Reece should be working full-time to get a reliable operation going for his little airline and waste no time on grandiose plans.

We have been long accustomed to all sorts of announcements from Reece.

They were to begin service to Brazil. A few charters connected to sporting events and nothing since.

MBJ. Nothing. BGI nothing.

The biggest joke is now the IPO. I think he thinks that all he needs to do is to select a stock market and just issue shares. It doesn't work like that.

He had Guyanese waiting FIVE days in YYZ and now announces FIVE fleets to Cuba to cities that even US carriers had to abandon.

He should stick to his knitting which is YYZ/JFK to KIN/GEO.

The last airline that had fantasies was Insel and we see where they are today.
 
Rmjhjr
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:22 am

A388 wrote:
Guys,

Hi Fly will be getting two secondhand A380's and will announce in October for who they will be flying these aircraft. Seeing that the TUI Group uses Jamaica as a cruise ship hub where you receive several cruise ship related charter flights on a single day, is it possible they might want to consolidate this by sending one A380 flight instead of several 787 flights or do these cruise ship charter flights arrive from different destinations in the U.K.? Barbados is also used as cruise ship hub if I remember correctly, right?

I'm just thinking out loud now as it isn't known yet for who Hi Fly will be flying these A380's. Which other airlines are used for cruise ship charters?


A388


Hi A388... Thats nice to hear really but TUI is not known to lease any a380 planes for as long as they've been operating. Rather, and this has been the case in the region that if they needed to borrow a plane then they have been seen using Hi-fly A332 (to MBJ), Wamos Air B744 (seen in BGI & MBJ and think DR) and the other plane I've seen them used is Privilege Air B777 (came twice to MBJ). However, not sure what Hi Fly gonna do with that A388 but we shall see. As for their air-to-sea it would not be needed because air-to-sea takes passengers from multiple destinations, including Glasgow, Newcastle, Cardiff, Dublin, Stockholm. So though they may have several planes on the ground they are not all from the same city. Yes, BGI is also a homeport just like Jamaica.
 
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hummingbird
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:39 am

guyanam wrote:
Let us just put something to rest here right now. Just because a company wants to do an IPO doesnt mean that they will be successful. Does OJ want to have all the financial disclosures that the regulatory agencies will insist if a stock is to be listed? And when people see how poor OJ is will they want to buy the shares? If the prospects for a successful issue is unlikely who will want to arrange and underwrite it? Caribbean capital markets are very shallow and most investors are looking for dividends.


Wow, to think there are not people out there besides you with different ideals is unimaginable. You cannot tell people where to put their money. If they invest in OJ, let it be.


guyanam wrote:
What we do know is that OJ lacks the cash flow to lease a plane, especially on reasonable terms. They cannot borrow as they lack assets to guarantee the loan, or the cash flow to guarantee debt service.


Hence the IPO. OJ is a business. Business needs to expand. Clearly they are pursuing the right path.


guyanam wrote:
Tell me something. Do you think that when people buy a plane ticket they sign up to be stranded for days? Who wants to be told by ground crews that even the owners of the airline don't know when the next flight will operate as they have to scrounge up funds to wet lease a plane?


Regular thing in the industry. Are you telling me OJ is the only carrier having mechanical issues with their planes stranding passengers ???

guyanam wrote:
This summer has been a huge problem for OJ as it reminds people of its early days when severe delays were frequent. Are those days back again now they are once again apparently a one plane airline? While OJ might have valid reasons for this passengers don't care to hear it. When Guyanese begin to classify OJ with DYA then you know that its bad.



This summer or the past few days??

guyanam wrote:
If B6 can make JFK POS work than why not GEO? The plane is in the air a mere 30 minutes longer. In the case o0f JFK POS B6 has to compete with BW which has the fierce loyalty of most Trinidadians. Guyanese are not loyal to any airline. They are however sick of being stranded for days and many will want a major brand if that brand comes in with reasonable fares (in the $600-700 range in off peak periods).


JFK-POS is more developed than GEO-JFK. High frequency flyers with higher disposable income. This gives B6 an entry to target the brand loyalists.

$600-700 fare on B6 is a recipe for disaster. Its a long route that has the aircraft airborne for more than 12 hrs. Add crew cost/layover and you see where the costs start to rise. B6 is struggling with their cost.

guyanam wrote:
Guyanese already fly 5 1/2 hours with no food. They did so with DL. They do so with DYA. Those who need to eat on the plane can buy food at the airport and bring it on board. People are already talking about B6 and there is no word of their plans concerning GEO. The Guyana government will move heaven and earth to get B6 in.


DL served meals back then. DYA serves snacks. . Currently US-GEO has a high concentration of VFR traffic. Distance is a factor,5+++hours. B6 must now figure out how to fit their product in a market that is accustomed to inflight meals.
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
gunnerman
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:05 am

A388 wrote:
Guys,

Hi Fly will be getting two secondhand A380's and will announce in October for who they will be flying these aircraft. Seeing that the TUI Group uses Jamaica as a cruise ship hub where you receive several cruise ship related charter flights on a single day, is it possible they might want to consolidate this by sending one A380 flight instead of several 787 flights or do these cruise ship charter flights arrive from different destinations in the U.K.? Barbados is also used as cruise ship hub if I remember correctly, right?

I'm just thinking out loud now as it isn't known yet for who Hi Fly will be flying these A380's. Which other airlines are used for cruise ship charters?

A388

There is a big cruise business at Barbados, which partly explains why BA operates up to 12 flights a week from LGW in the winter compared with just six this summer. Thomas Cook Airlines will also operate this winter to Barbados charters from LGW and MAN, plus scheduled from MAN. So, no need for any A380 to BGI.
 
tphuang
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:10 am

hummingbird wrote:
$600-700 fare on B6 is a recipe for disaster. Its a long route that has the aircraft airborne for more than 12 hrs. Add crew cost/layover and you see where the costs start to rise. B6 is struggling with their cost.

DL served meals back then. DYA serves snacks. . Currently US-GEO has a high concentration of VFR traffic. Distance is a factor,5+++hours. B6 must now figure out how to fit their product in a market that is accustomed to inflight meals.


This is quite interesting. B6 has $400 round trip fares to POS, which is just 30 min shorter. It frequently has $300 round trip fares to west coast, yet $600 to $700 to GEO would be a disaster? Where did you get B6 is struggling with cost?

JFK to CTG/AUA/GND/BGI/POS all seem to be sub $300 O/W and doing pretty well.
 
A388
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:07 pm

Thanks for the explanations Rmjhjr and gunnerman. I'm really anxious to see for who Hi Fly will be flying those A380's as it is the first time that second hand A380's will be used on the ACMI market. It is a huge aircraft to lease :)

A388
 
gunnerman
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:18 pm

hummingbird wrote:
guyanam wrote:
What we do know is that OJ lacks the cash flow to lease a plane, especially on reasonable terms. They cannot borrow as they lack assets to guarantee the loan, or the cash flow to guarantee debt service.


Hence the IPO. OJ is a business. Business needs to expand. Clearly they are pursuing the right path.

Why is it clear that getting four more aircaft and looking to expand to South America and Africa is the right path for an airline which is struggling to deliver.

hummingbird wrote:
guyanam wrote:
Tell me something. Do you think that when people buy a plane ticket they sign up to be stranded for days? Who wants to be told by ground crews that even the owners of the airline don't know when the next flight will operate as they have to scrounge up funds to wet lease a plane?


Regular thing in the industry. Are you telling me OJ is the only carrier having mechanical issues with their planes stranding passengers ???

You are entirely missing the point. It's a matter of scale. When half your little fleet is grounded for weeks, then it's really serious. OJ is bleeding cash to wet-lease planes and to compensate passengers. Bear in mind that OJ isn't the only player on routes such as JFK-GEO, YYZ-GEO, JFK-KIN and YYZ-KIN, so some of its disaffected passengers may well book with another carrier in future.
 
A388
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:47 pm

That is sad news to see OJ in financial problems. Looking at what guyanam and gunnerman posted I see the problems our own airline (Insel Air) has encountered. Their debts only increased and aircraft performance was going down too. Then it got to the point where they needed to lease quite a few aircraft for extended periods while they didn't have much money and I think that practically killed them. The difference here is that they could downsize drastically because they had a larger fleet and operation. OJ is different because they only have 2 aircraft, is that correct? There is no room for downsizing but their debts might keep going up, I'm not sure. I hope they can get out of it.

A388
Last edited by A388 on Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:48 pm

hummingbird wrote:
guyanam wrote:
Let us just put something to rest here right now. Just because a company wants to do an IPO doesnt mean that they will be successful. Does OJ want to have all the financial disclosures that the regulatory agencies will insist if a stock is to be listed? And when people see how poor OJ is will they want to buy the shares? If the prospects for a successful issue is unlikely who will want to arrange and underwrite it? Caribbean capital markets are very shallow and most investors are looking for dividends.


Wow, to think there are not people out there besides you with different ideals is unimaginable. You cannot tell people where to put their money. If they invest in OJ, let it be.


guyanam wrote:
What we do know is that OJ lacks the cash flow to lease a plane, especially on reasonable terms. They cannot borrow as they lack assets to guarantee the loan, or the cash flow to guarantee debt service.


Hence the IPO. OJ is a business. Business needs to expand. Clearly they are pursuing the right path.


guyanam wrote:
Tell me something. Do you think that when people buy a plane ticket they sign up to be stranded for days? Who wants to be told by ground crews that even the owners of the airline don't know when the next flight will operate as they have to scrounge up funds to wet lease a plane?


Regular thing in the industry. Are you telling me OJ is the only carrier having mechanical issues with their planes stranding passengers ???

guyanam wrote:
This summer has been a huge problem for OJ as it reminds people of its early days when severe delays were frequent. Are those days back again now they are once again apparently a one plane airline? While OJ might have valid reasons for this passengers don't care to hear it. When Guyanese begin to classify OJ with DYA then you know that its bad.



This summer or the past few days??

guyanam wrote:
If B6 can make JFK POS work than why not GEO? The plane is in the air a mere 30 minutes longer. In the case o0f JFK POS B6 has to compete with BW which has the fierce loyalty of most Trinidadians. Guyanese are not loyal to any airline. They are however sick of being stranded for days and many will want a major brand if that brand comes in with reasonable fares (in the $600-700 range in off peak periods).


JFK-POS is more developed than GEO-JFK. High frequency flyers with higher disposable income. This gives B6 an entry to target the brand loyalists.

$600-700 fare on B6 is a recipe for disaster. Its a long route that has the aircraft airborne for more than 12 hrs. Add crew cost/layover and you see where the costs start to rise. B6 is struggling with their cost.

guyanam wrote:
Guyanese already fly 5 1/2 hours with no food. They did so with DL. They do so with DYA. Those who need to eat on the plane can buy food at the airport and bring it on board. People are already talking about B6 and there is no word of their plans concerning GEO. The Guyana government will move heaven and earth to get B6 in.


DL served meals back then. DYA serves snacks. . Currently US-GEO has a high concentration of VFR traffic. Distance is a factor,5+++hours. B6 must now figure out how to fit their product in a market that is accustomed to inflight meals.

I for one definitely don't think meals will be a deal-breaker on GEO-JFK. Passengers will adjust and pick based on price/brand loyalty/schedule. Most passengers on the route originate in NYC and know B6's service well. B6 should perform well on the route as they appear to do on JFK-POS.
 
gunnerman
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:13 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
I for one definitely don't think meals will be a deal-breaker on GEO-JFK. Passengers will adjust and pick based on price/brand loyalty/schedule. Most passengers on the route originate in NYC and know B6's service well. B6 should perform well on the route as they appear to do on JFK-POS.

I think it all depends on reliability. If an airline has a solid reputation for delivering its passengers and their bags on time, then those passengers can accept either paying for food and drinks on board or bringing their own. But no amount of free food is going to make people rush to buy tickets from Fly Jamaica these days.
 
Brickell305
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:10 pm

gunnerman wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
I for one definitely don't think meals will be a deal-breaker on GEO-JFK. Passengers will adjust and pick based on price/brand loyalty/schedule. Most passengers on the route originate in NYC and know B6's service well. B6 should perform well on the route as they appear to do on JFK-POS.

I think it all depends on reliability. If an airline has a solid reputation for delivering its passengers and their bags on time, then those passengers can accept either paying for food and drinks on board or bringing their own. But no amount of free food is going to make people rush to buy tickets from Fly Jamaica these days.


I agree entirely.
 
jm079
Posts: 516
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:37 pm

hummingbird wrote:
guyanam wrote:
Let us just put something to rest here right now. Just because a company wants to do an IPO doesnt mean that they will be successful. Does OJ want to have all the financial disclosures that the regulatory agencies will insist if a stock is to be listed? And when people see how poor OJ is will they want to buy the shares? If the prospects for a successful issue is unlikely who will want to arrange and underwrite it? Caribbean capital markets are very shallow and most investors are looking for dividends.


Wow, to think there are not people out there besides you with different ideals is unimaginable. You cannot tell people where to put their money. If they invest in OJ, let it be.


guyanam wrote:
What we do know is that OJ lacks the cash flow to lease a plane, especially on reasonable terms. They cannot borrow as they lack assets to guarantee the loan, or the cash flow to guarantee debt service.


Hence the IPO. OJ is a business. Business needs to expand. Clearly they are pursuing the right path.


guyanam wrote:
Tell me something. Do you think that when people buy a plane ticket they sign up to be stranded for days? Who wants to be told by ground crews that even the owners of the airline don't know when the next flight will operate as they have to scrounge up funds to wet lease a plane?


Regular thing in the industry. Are you telling me OJ is the only carrier having mechanical issues with their planes stranding passengers ???

guyanam wrote:
This summer has been a huge problem for OJ as it reminds people of its early days when severe delays were frequent. Are those days back again now they are once again apparently a one plane airline? While OJ might have valid reasons for this passengers don't care to hear it. When Guyanese begin to classify OJ with DYA then you know that its bad.



This summer or the past few days??

guyanam wrote:
If B6 can make JFK POS work than why not GEO? The plane is in the air a mere 30 minutes longer. In the case o0f JFK POS B6 has to compete with BW which has the fierce loyalty of most Trinidadians. Guyanese are not loyal to any airline. They are however sick of being stranded for days and many will want a major brand if that brand comes in with reasonable fares (in the $600-700 range in off peak periods).


JFK-POS is more developed than GEO-JFK. High frequency flyers with higher disposable income. This gives B6 an entry to target the brand loyalists.

$600-700 fare on B6 is a recipe for disaster. Its a long route that has the aircraft airborne for more than 12 hrs. Add crew cost/layover and you see where the costs start to rise. B6 is struggling with their cost.

guyanam wrote:
Guyanese already fly 5 1/2 hours with no food. They did so with DL. They do so with DYA. Those who need to eat on the plane can buy food at the airport and bring it on board. People are already talking about B6 and there is no word of their plans concerning GEO. The Guyana government will move heaven and earth to get B6 in.


DL served meals back then. DYA serves snacks. . Currently US-GEO has a high concentration of VFR traffic. Distance is a factor,5+++hours. B6 must now figure out how to fit their product in a market that is accustomed to inflight meals.


You can not help but to notice a trend. Anytime there is bad news in the press about OJ the experts all come out. It was same predictions when the carrier was launch that they would fail, then last year it was that OJ run out of money, it was the same predictions when they have had tech probs in the past and like all other airlines, Fly Jamaica Airways needs now to invest an create a proper customer service department. Fly Jamaica is growing and Mrs Reece has to learn to delegate and spend some of the money to get proper customer service staff for there airports stations to handle delays and cancellation. and get a good PR Department so the traveling public is aware of changes in there travel plans. There planes are filled almost now with passengers, cargo and they have grown big in Jamaica and out of Canada to Guyana

HB post the stats of OJ performance yet that big gain in market share and capacity share is of no news. There share of the Jamaican market moved from 9% to 21% in one year. This is a huge jump.

Credit to OJ despite the problems they now have a working template to go forward with as they were able to get good and practical experience on how to handle a 777 to move over 330 people. The fact that the airline was able to secure these carriers to move people and to have the 767 and 757 under repairs say they have the means to pay and each time in the past when the planes are down or send to get fix means they have the ability to pay. Passengers in Canada who were affected were offered a full cash refund at the airport office. What does that say?

Secondly, another credit to them for getting these things done and to have a destination management in Cuba and to now secure government to government business and recognition in the Cuban Travel Market:

When asked about the airline’s contact with any travel agency, Mr. Smith pointed out that they are represented in Cuba by Havanatur. “People can go to any Havanatur office and purchase our tickets. We are working on packages. Cubans can now travel to Guyana and have a comfortable hotel room at affordable prices. No sleeping in airports. People coming from Guyana will enjoy the same here, in Cuba. They will be coming on our aircrafts and we hope to bring tourism from Guyana. We hope to connect those tourists who travel to Guyana and want a second destination. We’ll bring them to Cuba. We are looking forward to doing the same in the Bahamas, connecting our tourism market in the Bahamas to Cuba, Jamaica to Cuba. This is the center of the Caribbean,” he concluded

Read more at: http://www.caribbeannewsdigital.com/en/ ... n%E2%80%9D

“Cuba is the center of the Caribbean. Cuban nationals travel to Guyana based on the policies between Cuba and Guyana. Cuban nationals should not have to travel to third Caribbean countries to access Guyana. They ought to fly direct. They ought to have the privilege of flying there. We have put this in place to ensure that they have the opportunity to travel directly to the destination by which they are benefiting from the policies of Cuba and Guyana,” Mr. Smith told Caribbean News Digital in a brief interview Friday, following the launching ceremony of Fly Jamaica Airways-Air Guyana’s direct flight between Cuba and Guyana.



AIR GUYANA INFLITE MAGAZINE

As for the Excelencias Group working on Air Guyana’s in-flight magazine, Mr. Smith said that the Spanish company’s flagship publication is superb. “The Excelencias Group has done a tremendous work. It has such a beautiful magazine and it has regional reach throughout the Caribbean. It is an excellent magazine that speaks of the Caribbean, delivers Caribbean news. This is in keeping with our motive of connecting people,” he commented.
 
jm079
Posts: 516
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:07 am

Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:05 am

jm079 wrote:
hummingbird wrote:
guyanam wrote:
Let us just put something to rest here right now. Just because a company wants to do an IPO doesnt mean that they will be successful. Does OJ want to have all the financial disclosures that the regulatory agencies will insist if a stock is to be listed? And when people see how poor OJ is will they want to buy the shares? If the prospects for a successful issue is unlikely who will want to arrange and underwrite it? Caribbean capital markets are very shallow and most investors are looking for dividends.


Wow, to think there are not people out there besides you with different ideals is unimaginable. You cannot tell people where to put their money. If they invest in OJ, let it be.


guyanam wrote:
What we do know is that OJ lacks the cash flow to lease a plane, especially on reasonable terms. They cannot borrow as they lack assets to guarantee the loan, or the cash flow to guarantee debt service.


Hence the IPO. OJ is a business. Business needs to expand. Clearly they are pursuing the right path.


guyanam wrote:
Tell me something. Do you think that when people buy a plane ticket they sign up to be stranded for days? Who wants to be told by ground crews that even the owners of the airline don't know when the next flight will operate as they have to scrounge up funds to wet lease a plane?


Regular thing in the industry. Are you telling me OJ is the only carrier having mechanical issues with their planes stranding passengers ???

guyanam wrote:
This summer has been a huge problem for OJ as it reminds people of its early days when severe delays were frequent. Are those days back again now they are once again apparently a one plane airline? While OJ might have valid reasons for this passengers don't care to hear it. When Guyanese begin to classify OJ with DYA then you know that its bad.



This summer or the past few days??

guyanam wrote:
If B6 can make JFK POS work than why not GEO? The plane is in the air a mere 30 minutes longer. In the case o0f JFK POS B6 has to compete with BW which has the fierce loyalty of most Trinidadians. Guyanese are not loyal to any airline. They are however sick of being stranded for days and many will want a major brand if that brand comes in with reasonable fares (in the $600-700 range in off peak periods).


JFK-POS is more developed than GEO-JFK. High frequency flyers with higher disposable income. This gives B6 an entry to target the brand loyalists.

$600-700 fare on B6 is a recipe for disaster. Its a long route that has the aircraft airborne for more than 12 hrs. Add crew cost/layover and you see where the costs start to rise. B6 is struggling with their cost.

guyanam wrote:
Guyanese already fly 5 1/2 hours with no food. They did so with DL. They do so with DYA. Those who need to eat on the plane can buy food at the airport and bring it on board. People are already talking about B6 and there is no word of their plans concerning GEO. The Guyana government will move heaven and earth to get B6 in.


DL served meals back then. DYA serves snacks. . Currently US-GEO has a high concentration of VFR traffic. Distance is a factor,5+++hours. B6 must now figure out how to fit their product in a market that is accustomed to inflight meals.


You can not help but to notice a trend. Anytime there is bad news in the press about OJ the experts all come out. It was same predictions when the carrier was launch that they would fail, then last year it was that OJ run out of money, it was the same predictions when they have had tech probs in the past and like all other airlines, Fly Jamaica Airways needs now to invest an create a proper customer service department. Fly Jamaica is growing and Mrs Reece has to learn to delegate and spend some of the money to get proper customer service staff for there airports stations to handle delays and cancellation. and get a good PR Department so the traveling public is aware of changes in there travel plans. There planes are filled almost now with passengers, cargo and they have grown big in Jamaica and out of Canada to Guyana

HB post the stats of OJ performance yet that big gain in market share and capacity share is of no news. There share of the Jamaican market moved from 9% to 21% in one year. This is a huge jump.

Credit to OJ despite the problems they now have a working template to go forward with as they were able to get good and practical experience on how to handle a 777 to move over 330 people. The fact that the airline was able to secure these carriers to move people and to have the 767 and 757 under repairs say they have the means to pay and each time in the past when the planes are down or send to get fix means they have the ability to pay. Passengers in Canada who were affected were offered a full cash refund at the airport office. What does that say?

What debt servicing is OJ incurring when the airlines owns all there fleet
There labour cost is low and the airline fares are high

Secondly, another credit to them for getting these things done and to have a destination management in Cuba and to now secure government to government business and recognition in the Cuban Travel Market:

When asked about the airline’s contact with any travel agency, Mr. Smith pointed out that they are represented in Cuba by Havanatur. “People can go to any Havanatur office and purchase our tickets. We are working on packages. Cubans can now travel to Guyana and have a comfortable hotel room at affordable prices. No sleeping in airports. People coming from Guyana will enjoy the same here, in Cuba. They will be coming on our aircrafts and we hope to bring tourism from Guyana. We hope to connect those tourists who travel to Guyana and want a second destination. We’ll bring them to Cuba. We are looking forward to doing the same in the Bahamas, connecting our tourism market in the Bahamas to Cuba, Jamaica to Cuba. This is the center of the Caribbean,” he concluded

Read more at: http://www.caribbeannewsdigital.com/en/ ... n%E2%80%9D

“Cuba is the center of the Caribbean. Cuban nationals travel to Guyana based on the policies between Cuba and Guyana. Cuban nationals should not have to travel to third Caribbean countries to access Guyana. They ought to fly direct. They ought to have the privilege of flying there. We have put this in place to ensure that they have the opportunity to travel directly to the destination by which they are benefiting from the policies of Cuba and Guyana,” Mr. Smith told Caribbean News Digital in a brief interview Friday, following the launching ceremony of Fly Jamaica Airways-Air Guyana’s direct flight between Cuba and Guyana.



AIR GUYANA INFLITE MAGAZINE

As for the Excelencias Group working on Air Guyana’s in-flight magazine, Mr. Smith said that the Spanish company’s flagship publication is superb. “The Excelencias Group has done a tremendous work. It has such a beautiful magazine and it has regional reach throughout the Caribbean. It is an excellent magazine that speaks of the Caribbean, delivers Caribbean news. This is in keeping with our motive of connecting people,” he commented.
 
Rmjhjr
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 2:44 pm

Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:18 am

gunnerman wrote:
A388 wrote:
Guys,

Hi Fly will be getting two secondhand A380's and will announce in October for who they will be flying these aircraft. Seeing that the TUI Group uses Jamaica as a cruise ship hub where you receive several cruise ship related charter flights on a single day, is it possible they might want to consolidate this by sending one A380 flight instead of several 787 flights or do these cruise ship charter flights arrive from different destinations in the U.K.? Barbados is also used as cruise ship hub if I remember correctly, right?

I'm just thinking out loud now as it isn't known yet for who Hi Fly will be flying these A380's. Which other airlines are used for cruise ship charters?

A388

There is a big cruise business at Barbados, which partly explains why BA operates up to 12 flights a week from LGW in the winter compared with just six this summer. Thomas Cook Airlines will also operate this winter to Barbados charters from LGW and MAN, plus scheduled from MAN. So, no need for any A380 to BGI.


BA does not operate cruise transfers. BA is strictly revenue so the service there is normal. The ones that do cruise, the same for us in Jamaica are Thomson (TUI), Air Berlin, Condor, Eurowings and for B'dos Thomas Cook. But I am uncertain the Britannia ship coming this season.
 
guyanam
Posts: 3076
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:21 am

tphuang wrote:
hummingbird wrote:
$600-700 fare on B6 is a recipe for disaster. Its a long route that has the aircraft airborne for more than 12 hrs. Add crew cost/layover and you see where the costs start to rise. B6 is struggling with their cost.

DL served meals back then. DYA serves snacks. . Currently US-GEO has a high concentration of VFR traffic. Distance is a factor,5+++hours. B6 must now figure out how to fit their product in a market that is accustomed to inflight meals.


This is quite interesting. B6 has $400 round trip fares to POS, which is just 30 min shorter. It frequently has $300 round trip fares to west coast, yet $600 to $700 to GEO would be a disaster? Where did you get B6 is struggling with cost?

JFK to CTG/AUA/GND/BGI/POS all seem to be sub $300 O/W and doing pretty well.


.Exactly. In fact I was even giving B6 more leeway given that yields on the JFK GEO are higher. They know even DYA charges over $750 so they can still come in a little lower and please passengers.

The only carriers with meal service to GEO from JFK/YYZ are BW and OJ. DYA does NOT serve food and "snacks" I bet are the food vending machine variety. NOT sandwiches! I have heard people complain bitterly about DYA and no food, after a lengthy delay.

These days many passengers bring on their food, or eat before boarding and are more concerned whether there is wifi onboard so they can use their devices on plane mode. B6 is well known for this.
Last edited by guyanam on Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
guyanam
Posts: 3076
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:38 am

Jm079 if OJ cannot transport people from YYZ/JFK to KIN/GEO then where is the plane for service from HAV? Did they get the 763 back in the air yet? If not they cannot run their Cuba routes. What's the plan to get a new engine? And then there is talk of more planes. Where is the money and right now they have ONE plane, with the other parked unless you report that they have resolved the engine issue!

Right now people are beginning to book their Xmas tickets. With the recent problems think about how many might balk and chose a more reliable carrier. They CANNOT afford to be stranded at Xmas, a time when employers don't look well on employees who are absent without permission.

This is what I mean by shoe string operation. With the heavy maintenance on the 763 this year and the fact that there have been several maintenance break downs, not just this recent one, OJ must have been burning through cash. And that assumes that the damage that the 763 incurred earlier this year was covered by insurance. That 763 was absent so long that some had even begun to wonder if it had left the fleet. Then within weeks of it returning this problem occurs.

And yes those "experts" told you that there would be no Brazil, no MBJ and no BGI. They are now telling you that there is no IPO. And those flights to Africa and elsewhere are like a 5 year old dreaming about where next his toy plane can go. There is no sustainable demand for those flights.

If JFK GEO is such a long flight that will discourage B6 then what do you think of a KIN LOS route? And LOS is the only African route that can even begin to be considered given the relative large Nigerian community resident in Jamaica. Is LOS also a place where one can leave crews for one week. because I don't see more than 1X weekly being possible. LOS is very expensive. Don't fool yourself that large numbers of Caribbean people will want to visit Africa either. We like FL air conditioned malls.

Now if OJ has cash to deal with their engine issue then we can discuss Cuba. But they cannot currently service Cuba without abandoning their North American routes.

AG is presently doing HAV AUA GEO with Spanish language crews. Given that Aruba is a Latin American oriented culture and Jamaica and Guyana aren't guess which airline the Cubans will prefer.
 
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hummingbird
Topic Author
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:39 pm

tphuang wrote:
yet $600 to $700 to GEO would be a disaster?


"Roundtrip". Look at the costs associated with the route. It is more than just putting a plane on a route. Many factors at play.



tphuang wrote:
Where did you get B6 is struggling with cost?


Well documented in this article.
http://aviationweek.com/awincommercial/ ... sing-costs

tphuang wrote:
JFK to CTG/AUA/GND/BGI/POS all seem to be sub $300 O/W and doing pretty well.


Doing pretty well is subjective. For a few of the cities you listed, you have no idea what happens behind closed doors in terms of B6 getting marketing support.

gunnerman wrote:
You are entirely missing the point. It's a matter of scale. When half your little fleet is grounded for weeks, then it's really serious. OJ is bleeding cash to wet-lease planes and to compensate passengers. Bear in mind that OJ isn't the only player on routes such as JFK-GEO, YYZ-GEO, JFK-KIN and YYZ-KIN, so some of its disaffected passengers may well book with another carrier in future.


I get the point, but I cant seem to follow why we are CNN-ing this incident. They have two planes and got caught in a situation where both airframes were crippled at the same time. Things like these will happen, it is inevitable!!

As a matter of fact OJ has had major delays in the past and it has :NOT AFFECTED" their loads. You would be surprised how many of these said people will re-book with OJif it fits their schedule.


gunnerman wrote:
Why is it clear that getting four more aircaft and looking to expand to South America and Africa is the right path for an airline which is struggling to deliver.

Struggling to deliver...Haha. Good one.


Brickell305 wrote:
I for one definitely don't think meals will be a deal-breaker on GEO-JFK. Passengers will adjust and pick based on price/brand loyalty/schedule. Most passengers on the route originate in NYC and know B6's service well. B6 should perform well on the route as they appear to do on JFK-POS.


Acceptable. But entering an price sensitive market VFR route, are they able to charge fares that can sustain the route??.


jm079 wrote:
You can not help but to notice a trend. Anytime there is bad news in the press about OJ the experts all come out.


Agree.

guyanam wrote:
OJ cannot transport people from YYZ/JFK to KIN/GEO then where is the plane for service from HAV? Did they get the 763 back in the air yet? If not they cannot run their Cuba routes. What's the plan to get a new engine? And then there is talk of more planes. Where is the money and right now they have ONE plane, with the other parked unless you report that they have resolved the engine issue!


You really think the planes will remain crippled for the remainder of the year???


guyanam wrote:
Right now people are beginning to book their Xmas tickets. With the recent problems think about how many might balk and chose a more reliable carrier. They CANNOT afford to be stranded at Xmas, a time when employers don't look well on employees who are absent without permission.


Let me remind you what happened to DYA a few winters ago when they had that huge IROPS at JFK. People were stranded for days. DYA has had more delays on their JFK-GEO route this year, all reported in the media.
Earlier this month they had another hiccup and had week long delays. All the flights were full over 230 pax each way. So what is your point?

https://www.kaieteurnewsonline.com/2017 ... a-flights/



guyanam wrote:
This is what I mean by shoe string operation. there have been several maintenance break downs, not just this recent one, OJ must have been burning through cash. .


The B757 is 18 years old, there will be maintenance issues as OJ operates the frame like a NG.
I can attest prior to the B763 going tech in Aug, their flights were operating on time.



guyanam wrote:
If JFK GEO is such a long flight that will discourage B6 then what do you think of a KIN LOS route? And LOS is the only African route that can even begin to be considered given the relative large Nigerian community resident in Jamaica. Is LOS also a place where one can leave crews for one week. because I don't see more than 1X weekly being possible. LOS is very expensive. Don't fool yourself that large numbers of Caribbean people will want to visit Africa either. We like FL air conditioned malls.


Can't chew on this cookie. You went left with my statement.
JFK-GEO-JFK is a route that due to duty hours, will require crew rest. Crew Rest=Cost to airline.
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
tphuang
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:13 pm

It sounds like you are used to high fares on this route and can't accept that $600 for 5.5 hours fight is already very expensive. Just to give an example, there are plenty of 600 to 800 rt fares from Toronto to Beijing and that's a 13 hour flight. And from Vancouver to Beijing is sub 500 rt for a 11 hour flight.

As for b6 costs, they are up recently because of all the mint aircraft are just higher cams aircraft but it will go down once the 320 reconfig are completed. They are very profitable in these nyc to Caribbean routes.
 
guyanam
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:10 pm

When people get one week vacation and spend most of it at the airport these are very angry people. That is what happened to some Guyanese at YYZ. They aren't going to forget this. Let this happen again at Xmas and then it will become an issue. In fact DYAs problems also became OJs as people are now lumping the two carriers as being unreliable and increasing the chorus that BW needs competition.

Tell you what. Bajans only have B6 to BGI and yet you don't hear them screaming for more competition. GEO has THREE airlines and yet there are loud voices for competition. This is because DYA (and now OJ) are seen as being unreliable, and BW charges usurious fares at peak times.

BW can charge up to $1,000 in peak periods as they know that people will scream but pay it as many don't want to use DYA. But those who cannot afford this have to use DYA. OJ has one flight weekly so cannot satisfy the market and in any case if they end up being seen as being as unreliable as DYA then they will not be desired either. Travelling at the best of times is a hassle, and adding being stranded for one day or more doesn't fly. AT least with BW people know that the delay most likely will not be more than 3 hours. Even when BW had that GEO incident their overall schedule wasn't impacted.

Doing an IPO isn't like buying a shirt and OJ will soon learn that. No investment bank is going to go to the trouble of getting involved in this unless they think that the underwriting will be successful. Unless Mr. Reece has tons of friends who he can assure the underwriters will be willing to buy into a low return, but high risk venture. Not going to happen.



DL used to fly JFK GEO JFK with a one hour turn around with the same crews bringing the plane in taking it back out. They didn't overnight the crews in GEO. B6 will do the same. In fact I have been on flights from JFK to the Caribbean where the AA crews flew down to the Caribbean, came back up and then boarded a domestic flight to some other point. If B6 can make $$$ charging $400 R/T to POS then they can do this charging $600-700 to GEO. Please note that for an airline of that size not every flight has to pay the overheads. That is a problem that a small carrier like OJ has, and even BW.
 
airjamaica
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:26 am

Is there any form of restriction with B6's A320 JFK-POS service? Or is it that the A320 can handle it fully loaded with ease?
airjamaica
 
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hummingbird
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Re: Westbound over the Atlantic. Jamaican Thread #59

Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:52 am

The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..

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