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SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:22 pm
by happydad
First post (I think) ... long time (like ten+ years) lurker. Few notes:

1) Delta re-starts SLC to OGG non-stop on December 21 (76W .. lie-flat) departing 3:15 pm. Looks like it is daily thru the holiday season and then 4 days (Thurs - Sunday) away afterwards. Hope this route sticks. Its been like 7+ years? Leaving OGG at 10 pm after a day at the beach in lie-flat to SLC would be sweet.

2) Noticed that KLM Summer SLC to AMS is now a 787-900. Starts on Sunday, March 26th (MWS). Except for some diversions, I believe this is a first for SLC. Amazed that some days this summer (e.g. July 2nd) that Delta flies a A330-200 and KLM flies a 787. (Plus a 76W to LHR and CDG). After last summer with both AMS flights, there must be enough demand with all the pre-SLC connections and post-AMS connections (you have better vocabulary for this term). The KLM leaves SLC at 9:00 pm (last summer it was around 5 pm).

3) Noticed a new Delta SEA to LIH that starts on Dec 21 (11:55 am departure, 757). Glad to see a second flight in LIH for Delta (for Delta as long as I can remember, there has only been a single LAX to LIH flight). The flight is daily thru the holiday season and then runs everyday except Tuesday and Wednesday.

Thanks for all your great posts over the years. This forum is very helpful to me. Happydad

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:27 pm
by wedgetail737
That pretty has DL flying to all major HI destinations from SEA, along with AS. I believe all or at least most of the HI flights from SEA are flown with 757 equipment. There might be some 737-800 or -900ER flights too periodically.

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:02 pm
by dlflynhayn
Last time i flew back home last week to KOA from LAX i heard from a airport supervisor that the 739-900ers are not doing the job and will go back to the 757'S by summer..Instead of almost double daily on LAX-KOA by summer it looks like its a single 757-300 flight was crossing my fingers DL would keep the early departure out of LAX instead of arriving 8/9pm..

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:08 pm
by b6sea
If I'm not mistaken, most of DL's Hawaii network, esp. to the West Coast, was inherited from NW. Good to see them expanding it.

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:23 pm
by FSDan
Cool that they're bringing back SLC-OGG. I remember seeing announcements for the other changes (KL 789 on SLC-AMS and start of SEA-LIH), but not that one. Hopefully it can go year round. Would a 75H (ETOPS equipped 199-seat 757-200) have the legs to make it if a 76W proves to be too much?

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:38 pm
by compensateme
b6sea wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, most of DL's Hawaii network, esp. to the West Coast, was inherited from NW. Good to see them expanding it.


Very much a hybird + new service...

Winter 2008:

HONOLULU

DL:
ATL - 2x764
LAX - 763, 764
SLC - 764

NW:
MSP - 333
SEA - 753, 333
LAX - 753
SFO - 753
PDX - 753

MAUI

DL:
LAX - 763
SLC - 757

NW:
SEA - 753 (flight continued onto KOA)

----------

today:

HNL
ATL - 333 (legacy DL)
MSP - 333 (legacy NW - did not operate in the '00s)
JFK - seasonal 763 (new)
SLC - 333 (legacy DL)
LAX - 2x739, 753, 763 (both NW & DL, service has been expanded)
SEA - 2x757 (legacy NW)

OGG
LAX - 3x757 (legacy DL)
SEA - 757 (legacy NW but did not operate in '00s)

KOA
SEA - 757 (new)
LAX - 2x739 (new)

LIH
LAX - 757 (new)

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:08 pm
by 77H
compensateme wrote:
b6sea wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, most of DL's Hawaii network, esp. to the West Coast, was inherited from NW. Good to see them expanding it.


Very much a hybird + new service...

Winter 2008:

HONOLULU

DL:
ATL - 2x764
LAX - 763, 764
SLC - 764

NW:
MSP - 333
SEA - 753, 333
LAX - 753
SFO - 753
PDX - 753

MAUI

DL:
LAX - 763
SLC - 757

NW:
SEA - 753 (flight continued onto KOA)

----------

today:

HNL
ATL - 333 (legacy DL)
MSP - 333 (legacy NW - did not operate in the '00s)
JFK - seasonal 763 (new)
SLC - 333 (legacy DL)
LAX - 2x739, 753, 763 (both NW & DL, service has been expanded)
SEA - 2x757 (legacy NW)

OGG
LAX - 3x757 (legacy DL)
SEA - 757 (legacy NW but did not operate in '00s)

KOA
SEA - 757 (new)
LAX - 2x739 (new)

LIH
LAX - 757 (new)


MSP-HNL is seasonal too if I'm not mistaken.

77H

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:17 pm
by wedgetail737
b6sea wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, most of DL's Hawaii network, esp. to the West Coast, was inherited from NW. Good to see them expanding it.


Most of the SFO and LAX to Hawaii flights (namely HNL) were old Western Airlines flights. I'm sure Northwest flew a couple of those routes as well during that era.

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:27 pm
by 11725Flyer
happydad wrote:
First post (I think) ... long time (like ten+ years) lurker. Few notes:

1) Delta re-starts SLC to OGG non-stop on December 21 (76W .. lie-flat) departing 3:15 pm. Looks like it is daily thru the holiday season and then 4 days (Thurs - Sunday) away afterwards. Hope this route sticks. Its been like 7+ years? Leaving OGG at 10 pm after a day at the beach in lie-flat to SLC would be sweet.


Very happy to hear this. Now, when they reinstate service to TPA, it will bring back one of my former frequent routings.

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:29 pm
by b6sea
compensateme wrote:
b6sea wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, most of DL's Hawaii network, esp. to the West Coast, was inherited from NW. Good to see them expanding it.


Very much a hybird + new service...

Winter 2008:

HONOLULU

DL:
ATL - 2x764
LAX - 763, 764
SLC - 764

NW:
MSP - 333
SEA - 753, 333
LAX - 753
SFO - 753
PDX - 753

MAUI

DL:
LAX - 763
SLC - 757

NW:
SEA - 753 (flight continued onto KOA)

----------

today:

HNL
ATL - 333 (legacy DL)
MSP - 333 (legacy NW - did not operate in the '00s)
JFK - seasonal 763 (new)
SLC - 333 (legacy DL)
LAX - 2x739, 753, 763 (both NW & DL, service has been expanded)
SEA - 2x757 (legacy NW)

OGG
LAX - 3x757 (legacy DL)
SEA - 757 (legacy NW but did not operate in '00s)

KOA
SEA - 757 (new)
LAX - 2x739 (new)

LIH
LAX - 757 (new)



NW definitely operated SEA-KOA too. I don't know if it was discontinued by 2008, it's entirely possible that it was, but I have a route map from 2005 that shows it. I know NW operated services from ANC to HNL and OGG as well as PDX-HNL all in the '00s. Again, not sure when they were discontinued, but know they existed.

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:10 pm
by BoeingGuy
b6sea wrote:
compensateme wrote:
b6sea wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, most of DL's Hawaii network, esp. to the West Coast, was inherited from NW. Good to see them expanding it.


Very much a hybird + new service...

Winter 2008:

HONOLULU

DL:
ATL - 2x764
LAX - 763, 764
SLC - 764

NW:
MSP - 333
SEA - 753, 333
LAX - 753
SFO - 753
PDX - 753

MAUI

DL:
LAX - 763
SLC - 757

NW:
SEA - 753 (flight continued onto KOA)

----------

today:

HNL
ATL - 333 (legacy DL)
MSP - 333 (legacy NW - did not operate in the '00s)
JFK - seasonal 763 (new)
SLC - 333 (legacy DL)
LAX - 2x739, 753, 763 (both NW & DL, service has been expanded)
SEA - 2x757 (legacy NW)

OGG
LAX - 3x757 (legacy DL)
SEA - 757 (legacy NW but did not operate in '00s)

KOA
SEA - 757 (new)
LAX - 2x739 (new)

LIH
LAX - 757 (new)



NW definitely operated SEA-KOA too. I don't know if it was discontinued by 2008, it's entirely possible that it was, but I have a route map from 2005 that shows it. I know NW operated services from ANC to HNL and OGG as well as PDX-HNL all in the '00s. Again, not sure when they were discontinued, but know they existed.


NW didn't do SEA-KOA non-stop. It was a SEA-OGG-KOA-SEA round robin on a 757-300. I assume the KOA stop was partially due to runway length at OGG.

DL also did CVG-HNL and SFO-HNL on 767-400s at one time before the merger.

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:10 pm
by compensateme
b6sea wrote:
NW definitely operated SEA-KOA too. I don't know if it was discontinued by 2008, it's entirely possible that it was, but I have a route map from 2005 that shows it. I know NW operated services
from ANC to HNL and OGG as well as PDX-HNL all in the '00s. Again, not sure when they were discontinued, but know they existed.


NW never operated SEA-KOA; they operated SEA-OGG-KOA (it's on my list), with the OGG-KOA tag due to the inability to operate the 753 with a full payload OGG-SEA.

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:28 pm
by Legend757
11725Flyer wrote:
happydad wrote:
First post (I think) ... long time (like ten+ years) lurker. Few notes:

1) Delta re-starts SLC to OGG non-stop on December 21 (76W .. lie-flat) departing 3:15 pm. Looks like it is daily thru the holiday season and then 4 days (Thurs - Sunday) away afterwards. Hope this route sticks. Its been like 7+ years? Leaving OGG at 10 pm after a day at the beach in lie-flat to SLC would be sweet.


Very happy to hear this. Now, when they reinstate service to TPA, it will bring back one of my former frequent routings.


Looks like TPA is coming back. Loaded for Dec 21 start date on a 73H.

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:39 pm
by lavalampluva
77H wrote:
compensateme wrote:
b6sea wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, most of DL's Hawaii network, esp. to the West Coast, was inherited from NW. Good to see them expanding it.


Very much a hybird + new service...

Winter 2008:

HONOLULU

DL:
ATL - 2x764
LAX - 763, 764
SLC - 764

NW:
MSP - 333
SEA - 753, 333
LAX - 753
SFO - 753
PDX - 753

MAUI

DL:
LAX - 763
SLC - 757

NW:
SEA - 753 (flight continued onto KOA)

----------

today:

HNL
ATL - 333 (legacy DL)
MSP - 333 (legacy NW - did not operate in the '00s)
JFK - seasonal 763 (new)
SLC - 333 (legacy DL)
LAX - 2x739, 753, 763 (both NW & DL, service has been expanded)
SEA - 2x757 (legacy NW)

OGG
LAX - 3x757 (legacy DL)
SEA - 757 (legacy NW but did not operate in '00s)

KOA
SEA - 757 (new)
LAX - 2x739 (new)

LIH
LAX - 757 (new)


MSP-HNL is seasonal too if I'm not mistaken.

77H

I believe MSP-HNL operates 11 months of the year.

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:26 am
by bfitzflyer
I think SFO - HNL is still seasonal.

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:30 am
by bfitzflyer
Going back further I think DL did SAN - HNL and NW did at least seasonally DTW - HNL. Then there is the Japan flights on DL to 4 markets still. Formerly I believe at one time NW did SYD - HNL and GUM - HNL and possibly SEL - HNL

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:45 am
by cokepopper
Yes Delta use to operate HNL-SAN (L1011).
I believe the flight was HNL-SAN-CVG

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:56 am
by SQfan1
DL inherited the SLC-SAN-HNL route from WA. I have flown both routes on WA/DL (D10) and DL (L10). The HNL-SAN-SLC was an overnight flight with the SAN-SLC segment serving a full hot breakfast in Y. It was a fun flight. Mahalo.

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:22 am
by b6sea
BoeingGuy wrote:

NW didn't do SEA-KOA non-stop. It was a SEA-OGG-KOA-SEA round robin on a 757-300. I assume the KOA stop was partially due to runway length at OGG.

DL also did CVG-HNL and SFO-HNL on 767-400s at one time before the merger.


Ahhh yes, I do seem to recall that being the case. My bad.

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:29 am
by Q
Delta used to fly HNL-DFW L1011-500. Don't forget DFW was used to Delta's hub long time ago.

Q

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:39 am
by pdx
DL's PDXHNL nonstop begins 21DEC on a 739. Operates through 02JAN. Short but sweet!

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:33 pm
by wedgetail737
Q wrote:
Delta used to fly HNL-DFW L1011-500. Don't forget DFW was used to Delta's hub long time ago.

Q


DL used L-1011-500's on the ATL-HNL route as well.

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:48 pm
by EA CO AS
DL is smart to jump on these Hawaii routes with narrowbodies before HA tries to get in on the action once their A321s arrive.

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:54 pm
by panamair
compensateme wrote:

today:

HNL
ATL - 333 (legacy DL)
MSP - 333 (legacy NW - did not operate in the '00s)
JFK - seasonal 763 (new)
SLC - 333 (legacy DL)
LAX - 2x739, 753, 763 (both NW & DL, service has been expanded)
SEA - 2x757 (legacy NW)



FWIW, JFK-HNL was upgauged from the 763 to the 764 this season. The season was also extended (previously it only ran between Christmas and New Year's but this winter they extended it all the way to the end of the winter season i.e., March 25 2017).

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:54 pm
by azjubilee
EA CO AS wrote:
DL is smart to jump on these Hawaii routes with narrowbodies before HA tries to get in on the action once their A321s arrive.


HA is already in on the action, they just offer some of the service with a connection in HNL.

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:45 pm
by deltacto
Q wrote:
Delta used to fly HNL-DFW L1011-500


wedgetail737 wrote:
DL used L-1011-500's on the ATL-HNL route as well.


In the early to mid 90's both of these flights were almost always on the L-1011-250 (295 seats)

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:43 pm
by MIflyer12
azjubilee wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
DL is smart to jump on these Hawaii routes with narrowbodies before HA tries to get in on the action once their A321s arrive.


HA is already in on the action, they just offer some of the service with a connection in HNL.


Connecting service is inferior to non-stop (of reasonable frequency). If you want to count one-stops, nearly every carrier is in on the action to everywhere in Hawaii.

IMHO, the point made by EA CO AS has merit. DL may find that some routes don't have demand (at the average fares Delta wants), but there may be lots of routes where, if Delta is established, won't have room for an extra carrier when HA has 321LRs in quantity.

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:36 pm
by wedgetail737
deltacto wrote:
Q wrote:
Delta used to fly HNL-DFW L1011-500


wedgetail737 wrote:
DL used L-1011-500's on the ATL-HNL route as well.


In the early to mid 90's both of these flights were almost always on the L-1011-250 (295 seats)


They had to be because the L-1011-500 was the only aircraft with the range. The L-1011-500 was a treat. I flew it on the PDX-SEL route (before ICN).

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:19 pm
by MSPNWA
lavalampluva wrote:
I believe MSP-HNL operates 11 months of the year.

MSP-HNL varies considerably. It's more like about 9-10 months, with stretches of 4x-6x weekly at various points.

EA CO AS wrote:
DL is smart to jump on these Hawaii routes with narrowbodies before HA tries to get in on the action once their A321s arrive.

Except that these two additions are limited and aimed in different areas. One is a restart of an old rout, and the other is obviously targeted more at AS. Neither would be likely to see an HA A321 anytime soon, if ever in the case of OGG-SLC. DL is only recently getting close to pre-merger capacity to Hawaii. Alaska's expansion to Hawaii has partially come from DL. Only recently is DL getting close to the same Hawaii capacity as they did in the 2008-09 era.

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:30 pm
by EA CO AS
MSPNWA wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
I believe MSP-HNL operates 11 months of the year.

MSP-HNL varies considerably. It's more like about 9-10 months, with stretches of 4x-6x weekly at various points.

EA CO AS wrote:
DL is smart to jump on these Hawaii routes with narrowbodies before HA tries to get in on the action once their A321s arrive.

Except that these two additions are limited and aimed in different areas. One is a restart of an old rout, and the other is obviously targeted more at AS. Neither would be likely to see an HA A321 anytime soon, if ever in the case of OGG-SLC. DL is only recently getting close to pre-merger capacity to Hawaii. Alaska's expansion to Hawaii has partially come from DL. Only recently is DL getting close to the same Hawaii capacity as they did in the 2008-09 era.


Obviously my point wasn't about SLC, but rather the SEALIH route. And I do believe this is a route where HA would love to fly nonstop, but cannot profitably do so at present, which is why AS has been eating HA's lunch on this route for years. Once the A321s come on property, I'd expect to see this be one of the first routes added, as the yields are high, at least for Hawaii routes are concerned. Making HA play catch-up behind not one, but two carriers is a smart move by DL.

Re: SLC to OGG and AMS News; New SEA to LIH DL Route

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:54 pm
by MSPNWA
EA CO AS wrote:

Obviously my point wasn't about SLC, but rather the SEALIH route. And I do believe this is a route where HA would love to fly nonstop, but cannot profitably do so at present, which is why AS has been eating HA's lunch on this route for years. Once the A321s come on property, I'd expect to see this be one of the first routes added, as the yields are high, at least for Hawaii routes are concerned. Making HA play catch-up behind not one, but two carriers is a smart move by DL.


I would bet good money KOA-SEA will happen before LIH-SEA, and I don't believe KOA-SEA is that high on HA's list. KOA/LIH-SEA is relatively highly served compared to other cities such as SFO, LAX, and SAN. HA has a limited presence out of KOA and LIH to the mainland. I don't see LIH-SEA happening soon.