Varsity1 wrote:

The US, much like China is insular and doesn't depend on foreign tourism.

Feel free to stay home.

Anyone is free to express an opinion, but -boy- what an *anal* comment that is.

And if you think that the US doesn't need foreign trade (whether that entails tourism or not), then you are a long way off. Insular it is -especially in the minds of people like you- but sadly it's a country that is entangled and intertwined in foreign relations (economic ones, firstly and foremost) just like any other of this planet.

Bricktop wrote:

Well if we're going anecdotal, I have been been treated in an unfriendly manner by customs and immigration at LHR, CDG and FRA. Does it mean I am not going to go to the UK, France and Germany? Not at all, because I am an adult.

Hate to say it, but the only times i have been treated somewhat unfriendly by immigration and customs were at home, in Austria.
Never anywhere else in Europe or America.

oldannyboy wrote:

Varsity1 wrote:

The US, much like China is insular and doesn't depend on foreign tourism.

Feel free to stay home.

Anyone is free to express an opinion, but -boy- what an *anal* comment that is.

And if you think that the US doesn't need foreign trade (whether that entails tourism or not), then you are a long way off. Insular it is -especially in the minds of people like you- but sadly it's a country that is entangled and intertwined in foreign relations (economic ones, firstly and foremost) just like any other of this planet.

Don't let objective facts conflict with your ideology, oldannyboy. Irrespective of cultural value of international travel and visitors, the U.S. relies relatively much less on foreign tourism and foreign trade as fractions of GDP.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NE. ... _desc=true

KTPAFlyer wrote:

MaksFly wrote:

...or.... it just may be...MAY BE that their business is experiencing a slowdown and they are using this as an excuse as any company would do.

You have got to be kidding me. I don't know what you've been smoking but I'd like to try it!

Well?? Why Couldn't it be true?? Emirates does not have feed and now their main source of revenue is hunkered down and reluctant to travel lest they get Jacked by immigration upon return. I live northwest of Chicago and usually see a LOT of H1B's in the apartment complex I live in with their "anchor children". (no disrespect intended) in the last few months they have been leaving with no NEW replacements as in the past because they usually come in the early spring to work in the Hi tech areas in Chicago's northwest suburbs. And immediately after arriving all their wives are pregnant. So I conclude that since they're NOT here?? Something must be at the root cause and I strongly suspect it's this Travel Ban foisted by President Trump.
. It's Not going to hurt Me, but it IS going to make things interesting for Hi tech.. Not only Here? But in Silicon Valley where I'm from and where my home is.

MIflyer12 wrote:

oldannyboy wrote:

Varsity1 wrote:

The US, much like China is insular and doesn't depend on foreign tourism.

Feel free to stay home.

Anyone is free to express an opinion, but -boy- what an *anal* comment that is.

And if you think that the US doesn't need foreign trade (whether that entails tourism or not), then you are a long way off. Insular it is -especially in the minds of people like you- but sadly it's a country that is entangled and intertwined in foreign relations (economic ones, firstly and foremost) just like any other of this planet.

Don't let objective facts conflict with your ideology, oldannyboy. Irrespective of cultural value of international travel and visitors, the U.S. relies relatively much less on foreign tourism and foreign trade as fractions of GDP.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NE. ... _desc=true

Give us some examples of "relatively less".

Are you able to interpret and explain the data represented in the World Bank link you posted? Please do.

According to: http://trade.gov/mas/ian/build/groups/p ... 002065.pdf

"Total trade (exports and imports) accounted for 30% of U.S. GDP in 2013."

"Exports of goods and services supported 11.3 million jobs in 2013, an increase of 1.6 million jobs since 2009."

The USA is not an insular economy. It is interdependent in a world economy. We need every tourist and every trade deal that we can attract.

Bricktop wrote:

Well if we're going anecdotal, I have been been treated in an unfriendly manner by customs and immigration at LHR, CDG and FRA. Does it mean I am not going to go to the UK, France and Germany? Not at all, because I am an adult.

It's not the same thing. If you encounter a rude agent somewhere, it'll probably not be a big deal. You'll just do what you're told and you'll be fine.

In the US on the other hand, there's a real risk of detention and deportation for a lot of travelers. They even detain their own citizens on entry for no reason at all. That's not a normal country and that's not an experience one should just be ok with when they've most likely done nothing wrong. I don't think you'd like to be taken in for secondary and held for hours on end with no reason while also having no rights in the process. Plus the idea of them asking for your device password is also unthinkable. I'd ask to get deported before I give up my private data.

DAL763ER wrote:

Bricktop wrote:

Well if we're going anecdotal, I have been been treated in an unfriendly manner by customs and immigration at LHR, CDG and FRA. Does it mean I am not going to go to the UK, France and Germany? Not at all, because I am an adult.

It's not the same thing. If you encounter a rude agent somewhere, it'll probably not be a big deal. You'll just do what you're told and you'll be fine.

In the US on the other hand, there's a real risk of detention and deportation for a lot of travelers. They even detain their own citizens on entry for no reason at all. That's not a normal country and that's not an experience one should just be ok with when they've most likely done nothing wrong. I don't think you'd like to be taken in for secondary and held for hours on end with no reason while also having no rights in the process. Plus the idea of them asking for your device password is also unthinkable. I'd ask to get deported before I give up my private data.

Really? Can you provide facts to support your statement that "They even detain their own citizens on entry for no reason at all." And as for the "real risk of detention and deportation for a lot of travelers" sorry but I don't agree with that either. If you have done nothing wrong, aren't a "bad" person, you are more than welcome in the United States. Please stop the hysteria. The U.S. isn't a Facist or Communist state.

Ohh no, poor Emirates can't fill their vast fleet of A380's that they have dumped in the USA? Such a shame...

kaitakfan wrote:

Ohh no, poor Emirates can't fill their vast fleet of A380's that they have dumped in the USA? Such a shame...

I would gladly love to see them dump some of that capacity in the Detroit market but sadly that is becoming more and more remote if ever as the days go on with news like this.

vfw614 wrote:

I am also aware of conference which now will not be hosted in the US, but elsewhere.

I'd still like to know what conference was moved from the US to a different country.

sadiqutp wrote:

Jetty wrote:

sadiqutp wrote:

Mogadishu is not part of the 6-banned countries

Maybe that is because it isn't a country?

Somehow I read it "madagascar" ... Oops

You do realise that MOGADISHU is the Capitol of SOMALIA which is not on the list of countries involving the travel ban as already stated.

MADAGASCAR is an island nation in the Indian Ocean situated to the east of Mozambique on the African continent with it's capital being ANTANANARIVO.

DDR wrote:

Really? Can you provide facts to support your statement that "They even detain their own citizens on entry for no reason at all.

you missed that? http://metro.co.uk/2017/01/31/boy-5-han ... a-6417601/

best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 wrote:

DDR wrote:

Really? Can you provide facts to support your statement that "They even detain their own citizens on entry for no reason at all.

you missed that? http://metro.co.uk/2017/01/31/boy-5-han ... a-6417601/

best regards
Thomas

Thomas, I presume you mean well, wish to be truthful, and never want to present as fact that which is demonstrably false. The link to the video that you provided was used in a "news" story that did include just a kernel of truth. A young boy was indeed detained at IAD Dulles Airport.

The photo of a handcuffed (upper arms) boy was NOT the boy at Dulles. He is dressed differently and looks very different from THAT boy.

One of the world's best debunkers of misinformation, disinformation and outright lies is SNOPES.com. See: http://www.snopes.com/small-child-handcuffed-at-dulles/

Snopes says: "However, we traced the image back to an August 2015 controversy in Kentucky involving sheriff’s deputies handcuffing young students with learning disabilities."

Another excellent video debunking "your" video and news item is found at VERIFY: http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/verify- ... /395580032

This is a production of WUSA 9, which is a legitimate journalistic TV news source in Washington, D.C.

Before you post such outrageous misinformation, you might at least do a Google or Yahoo search to see whether your garbage UK "media" site can be confirmed by legitimate news sources. Here are the results of a simple search:

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=B ... mp=yhs-001

None of the above is to deny that a young traveler was detained, and probably for an egregious amount of time, at Dulles Airport. I doubt that all of the circumstances are revealed by the reportage in the search results.

Yours truly, in the hope of future honesty,

BobPatterson

DDR wrote:

DAL763ER wrote:

Bricktop wrote:

Well if we're going anecdotal, I have been been treated in an unfriendly manner by customs and immigration at LHR, CDG and FRA. Does it mean I am not going to go to the UK, France and Germany? Not at all, because I am an adult.

It's not the same thing. If you encounter a rude agent somewhere, it'll probably not be a big deal. You'll just do what you're told and you'll be fine.

In the US on the other hand, there's a real risk of detention and deportation for a lot of travelers. They even detain their own citizens on entry for no reason at all. That's not a normal country and that's not an experience one should just be ok with when they've most likely done nothing wrong. I don't think you'd like to be taken in for secondary and held for hours on end with no reason while also having no rights in the process. Plus the idea of them asking for your device password is also unthinkable. I'd ask to get deported before I give up my private data.

Really? Can you provide facts to support your statement that "They even detain their own citizens on entry for no reason at all." And as for the "real risk of detention and deportation for a lot of travelers" sorry but I don't agree with that either. If you have done nothing wrong, aren't a "bad" person, you are more than welcome in the United States. Please stop the hysteria. The U.S. isn't a Facist or Communist state.

Lest see, Muhammad Ali Jr, son of the world famous boxer, an American citizen by birth, was detained twice this year , an American born NASA scientist was detained...

ish2dachoppa wrote:

Lest see, Muhammad Ali Jr, son of the world famous boxer, an American citizen by birth, was detained twice this year , an American born NASA scientist was detained...

Have you read Mr. Sidd Bikkannavar's own account of his being questioned (and detained) and what he thought about it?

Have you read about the questioning (not detention) of Mr. Ali at DCA National Airport? Why would you mention two detentions of Mr. Ali if there was just one? Just because questioning is erroneously referred to as detention by others?

Maybe my impressions are wrong. Help me out, please.

BobPatterson wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

oldannyboy wrote:

Anyone is free to express an opinion, but -boy- what an *anal* comment that is.

And if you think that the US doesn't need foreign trade (whether that entails tourism or not), then you are a long way off. Insular it is -especially in the minds of people like you- but sadly it's a country that is entangled and intertwined in foreign relations (economic ones, firstly and foremost) just like any other of this planet.

Don't let objective facts conflict with your ideology, oldannyboy. Irrespective of cultural value of international travel and visitors, the U.S. relies relatively much less on foreign tourism and foreign trade as fractions of GDP.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NE. ... _desc=true

Give us some examples of "relatively less".

Are you able to interpret and explain the data represented in the World Bank link you posted? Please do.

According to: http://trade.gov/mas/ian/build/groups/p ... 002065.pdf

"Total trade (exports and imports) accounted for 30% of U.S. GDP in 2013."

"Exports of goods and services supported 11.3 million jobs in 2013, an increase of 1.6 million jobs since 2009."

The USA is not an insular economy. It is interdependent in a world economy. We need every tourist and every trade deal that we can attract.

Good job Bob. Thanks for pointing those mor*ns the obvious facts. It's sad that people in this day and age like to think of the US as an "insular economy". It's such a ridiculous concept.

IPFreely wrote:

vfw614 wrote:

I am also aware of conference which now will not be hosted in the US, but elsewhere.

I'd still like to know what conference was moved from the US to a different country.

Well, me personally I am aware of a medical (andrology) conference that was moved to Canada because of the travel bans to begin with. Not sure what the other poster was referring to.
Loads of other (easier/friendlier) places to move conferences to. It is getting more and more difficult to have participants of conferences belonging to Middle Eastern countries obtain a visa, even when their visit is sponsored. It's a fact.
And lots of non-white/non-Caucasian (plus a good chunk of Europeans too) have no desire to get grilled by immigration upon entering the US. It's understandable. Racial profiling is a pretty horrible thing to experience.

Some people in the US often forget how many "experts/professors/researchers/scientists/professionals/doctors/surgeons/writers/artists, etc.." come from the Middle East, Africa, Asia etc... Knowledge and Culture knows no walls, no borders and no politics.

B6190 wrote:

Someone please tell the low cost airlines that are adding transatlantic capacity about the US travel hassles.

Those low cost airlines are adding capacity from Europe, not from countries that are affected by the US travel bans. You will probably find that US airlines would be suffering a drop in bookings from affected countries as well, assuming they even have flights or code-shares to them.

There is so much misinformation here that it's no wonder the world is in a mess. The US will do just fine with a few less visitors and maybe a convention or two canceled. As for the airlines like EK they also will weather the storm and continue to thrive,

Hmm this seems to have gone into a polarising black and white political discussion, thats a pity because it is a good topic.

My experience of the new rules very pretty basic. The first rather quick executive order meant that most companies were unsure what the exact rules were. That meant, in our case, that the company sent a travel-advisory requesting that all non essential travel to the US were halted until the company had further information on what the executive order really meant. To me that was an order that wasn't handled well, they could have provided clear guidelines as to what the exact rules were before they implemented them.

However, after a few days, things became clear and the travel advisory was changed to a much more specific one. One that focused on those born in specific countries and those who travel for a living and visits certain parts of the world.
Nothing to difficult.

This time the lesson seems to have been learnt and clear rules seems to be in place that takes away the inconsistency and lack of clarity. Good. I haven't received any new travel advisories so those who handle this seem more confident on what the rules entail and proper information must this have been provided. That matters to business, we adapt (whether we like it or not) as long as we know what rules to follow, at least that's my experience of the corporate world.

Tourists, VFR and others may be more hesitant to travel though, how much was South American tourism initially impacted when they had to obtain Visas? Perhaps the same change in percentage of visitors can be expected from the countries who have seen a change of rules?

I think that EK must be one of the biggest Boeing customers and it is ironic the politics of the day in the USA to create more jobs is affecting a company who if it does well has the potential to spearhead just that. New jobs.

frmrCapCadet wrote:

If the US is going to greatly tighten the border, we also should spend some money to ensure people we want coming are greeted by better trained and more numerous border personnel. Minor discrepancies in admitting people need to be resolved quickly and courteously in favor of people who should be admitted. I am not hearing that this funding is being supported. Oddly, the Coast Guard who have an already impossible job securing our borders are facing a major cut in their budget.

Agree 100%...the problem is that the "Customer is King" mentality does not extend to tourists although they are in many senses clients of a domestic economy...US customs treats tourists like individual cost centers...because they themselves are run as a cost center, as a government bureaucracy...


Faro

BobPatterson wrote:

None of the above is to deny that a young traveler was detained, and probably for an egregious amount of time, at Dulles Airport.

So many words just to say "You are right". A US Citizen was detained for no reason at all (there are zero valid reasons to detain a 5 year old without its parents, in civilized countries that isn´t even possible).

best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 wrote:

BobPatterson wrote:

None of the above is to deny that a young traveler was detained, and probably for an egregious amount of time, at Dulles Airport.

So many words just to say "You are right". A US Citizen was detained for no reason at all (there are zero valid reasons to detain a 5 year old without its parents, in civilized countries that isn´t even possible).

best regards
Thomas

No, Thomas. It was so many word to demonstrate that you were wrong, citing a "false news" outlet.

And now you compound your wrongfulness by not owning up to your error and apologizing to the forum.

When you post false garbage you own the garbage.

We may yet learn the full story behind this incident. At present it does not look good for the US Government.

BobPatterson wrote:

No, Thomas. It was so many word to demonstrate that you were wrong, citing a "false news" outlet.

The news is correct, they only added a picture that wasn´t. Your "fake news" claim is simply ridiculous. That is like refusing the theory of Evolution because you find a spelling error in "Origins".....

The issues was: US doesn´t detain citizens without reason. The news proofs, but your own admittance, exactly that. The picture is in no way relevant to the meat of the story.

Could i have picked a better source? Sure. Did i have any reason to look for one that is correct in every detail to demonstrate that another user obviously missed a well known fact? Nope. Not at all.

best regards
Thomas

BravoOne wrote:

There is so much misinformation here that it's no wonder the world is in a mess. The US will do just fine with a few less visitors and maybe a convention or two canceled. As for the airlines like EK they also will weather the storm and continue to thrive,

I am from New York, we will most definitely not do *fine* here. We are an international city, home to the UN and a major international trading and banking center. We also host a *lot* of foreign tourists. If they stop coming, New York's tourist industry will be severely impacted and unemployment will rise. For my home town it is a big f**ing problem.

As for conferences, organization I work for, hosts small conferences in NY often, or rather used to host. Hard for employees in many countries to get a visa for the US. We had to move one from NY to Nairobi on short notice b/c so many scientists and researchers - big shots in their field - were denied visas.

well? What are you going to do?? The President initiated this travel ban to achieve some goal. (I have no real Idea what or even why)
But a LOT of Americans voted for him for SOME reason. I seriously Doubt it will hurt the USA in the short term though I cannot speak for the long term.
I see no evidence as of yet what the outcome will eventually be. Though I do know this. Anybody who doesn't like it?? Seems to be thought of as little or No confidence. And? Since I just got a healthy raise? I can't even complain about it. We'll have to actually SEE what the outcome of this will be.
As of yet?? Nobody knows!!

I'm sure the US3 are happy with this! They will compete with "Clever Norweigean," but are terrified of airlines with a real first class. Just goes to show that the US3 product is geared to Chevy, not Cadilac.

Faro wrote:

frmrCapCadet wrote:

If the US is going to greatly tighten the border, we also should spend some money to ensure people we want coming are greeted by better trained and more numerous border personnel. Minor discrepancies in admitting people need to be resolved quickly and courteously in favor of people who should be admitted. I am not hearing that this funding is being supported. Oddly, the Coast Guard who have an already impossible job securing our borders are facing a major cut in their budget.

Agree 100%...the problem is that the "Customer is King" mentality does not extend to tourists although they are in many senses clients of a domestic economy...US customs treats tourists like individual cost centers...because they themselves are run as a cost center, as a government bureaucracy...


Faro

Im a big fan of protecting ones sovereignty namely the US here. I'm also in favor of widening the doorway into the US. Most people that i discuss this with that think the US economy will fall apart if we do refuse to hear the second part. Opening the Legal way in. These two should be in tandem.

csavel wrote:

We had to move one from NY to Nairobi on short notice b/c so many scientists and researchers - big shots in their field - were denied visas.

As I asked the other poster -- which conference was it?

VSMUT wrote:

B6190 wrote:

Someone please tell the low cost airlines that are adding transatlantic capacity about the US travel hassles.

Those low cost airlines are adding capacity from Europe, not from countries that are affected by the US travel bans. You will probably find that US airlines would be suffering a drop in bookings from affected countries as well, assuming they even have flights or code-shares to them.

For what it's worth: VIE reported a strong overall increase in passenger numbers in January and February (+7.9% and +3.2%), but a substantial decline in passengers to North America (-10.2% and -21.0%). See http://www.viennaairport.com/unternehme ... ergebnisse (in German).

TheLark wrote:

For what it's worth: VIE reported a strong overall increase in passenger numbers in January and February (+7.9% and +3.2%), but a substantial decline in passengers to North America (-10.2% and -21.0%). See http://www.viennaairport.com/unternehme ... ergebnisse (in German).

Interesting. Do the Austrian flights to/from parts of the ME have something to do with that, or is it a general trend amongst all passengers?

csavel wrote:

We had to move one from NY to Nairobi on short notice b/c so many scientists and researchers - big shots in their field - were denied visas.

Please tell us:

1. The nature and field of the conference.

2. The countries represented by those denied visas.

3. The specialties of the scientists involved.

Thank you.

BobPatterson wrote:

csavel wrote:

We had to move one from NY to Nairobi on short notice b/c so many scientists and researchers - big shots in their field - were denied visas.

Please tell us:

1. The nature and field of the conference.

2. The countries represented by those denied visas.

3. The specialties of the scientists involved.

Thank you.

And than you would know for whom he is working.
Since when do we pressure somebody for exact information out of their workplace?
Perhaps you can give us for whom you work with your next post?

mjoelnir wrote:

And than you would know for whom he is working.
Since when do we pressure somebody for exact information out of their workplace?
Perhaps you can give us for whom you work with your next post?

If it's a major conference involving presumably hundreds of people from many countries he can provide a website or the name of the conference without revealing personal information.

We now have three posters in this thread who claim to know of major conferences (scheduled and planned months or years in advance) that were moved from the US to other countries because of the travel ban (weeks old).

Interestingly, none of the three can actually name the conferences that were moved because of the travel ban.

It looks like "fake news" has found its way into this thread.

I cannot think of anyone I know in a major field who would not likely be sanctioned for releasing the kind of information being demanded. We know that any conference involving citizens (AND their families) of at least 6 countries will have some difficulty getting into the US, or getting back in. It is a barrier, and a major barrier. As I understand it, not only citizens of the 6 countries, but also having visited them (or not disclosing that) triggers problems.

mjoelnir wrote:

BobPatterson wrote:

csavel wrote:

We had to move one from NY to Nairobi on short notice b/c so many scientists and researchers - big shots in their field - were denied visas.

Please tell us:

1. The nature and field of the conference.

2. The countries represented by those denied visas.

3. The specialties of the scientists involved.

Thank you.

And than you would know for whom he is working.
Since when do we pressure somebody for exact information out of their workplace?
Perhaps you can give us for whom you work with your next post?

The poster has already stated that the meeting had to be moved from NYC to Nairobi. Do you not think that information is not sufficient to identify the meeting planner?

I will have been retired for 22 years in July. My last place of employment, for almost ten years, was the United States Peace Corps in Washington, D.C. Before that I worked for myself or in partnership with my brother in a building trade.

BobPatterson wrote:

mjoelnir wrote:

BobPatterson wrote:

Please tell us:

1. The nature and field of the conference.

2. The countries represented by those denied visas.

3. The specialties of the scientists involved.

Thank you.

And than you would know for whom he is working.
Since when do we pressure somebody for exact information out of their workplace?
Perhaps you can give us for whom you work with your next post?

The poster has already stated that the meeting had to be moved from NYC to Nairobi. Do you not think that information is not sufficient to identify the meeting planner?

I will have been retired for 22 years in July. My last place of employment, for almost ten years, was the United States Peace Corps in Washington, D.C. Before that I worked for myself or in partnership with my brother in a building trade.

Not the same but similar:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ade-summit

frmrCapCadet wrote:

I cannot think of anyone I know in a major field who would not likely be sanctioned for releasing the kind of information being demanded. We know that any conference involving citizens (AND their families) of at least 6 countries will have some difficulty getting into the US, or getting back in. It is a barrier, and a major barrier. As I understand it, not only citizens of the 6 countries, but also having visited them (or not disclosing that) triggers problems.

It should be noted that people who were born in the 6 targeted countries but are now Permanent Residents of other countries will/may be affected. This has lead to several schools from Canada cancelling their US trips, as they cannot guarantee all students will be admitted. The most recent here:

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/0 ... l-ban.html