http://finance.yahoo.com/news/free-main ... 00861.html

AA will match DL with free coach meals on the JFK-LAX/SFO transcon market starting in May.

Nothing is free. The cost is hidden in the overall ticket price.

Hello B6...your turn to step to the plate and swing the bat.

So glad the pendulum is swinging the other way.

It's crappy food but it kills an hour where you are a captive audience

Mortyman wrote:

Nothing is free. The cost is hidden in the overall ticket price.

Can we talk about price elasticity of demand and consumer willingness to pay more an an 'included' meal? Prices don't go up (without a drop in demand) unless some people are willing to pay for a feature.

Mortyman wrote:

Nothing is free. The cost is hidden in the overall ticket price.

Assuming of course, the ticket prices go up as a result of this announcement, or AA were planning on lower ticket prices.

In this case it literally is free- AA is eating the costs to remain competitive with DL in this very important market. That is why it is free only for the JFK-LAX/SFO transcons, and not all of the many other transcons/near-transcons flights AA operates.

Mortyman wrote:

Nothing is free. The cost is hidden in the overall ticket price.

"Free Love Baby."
Well, I am a child of the 70's.

Good to see an Airline following a competitor doing something good

Delta added more than just this route, but its a start

So how is it that the laws of breaking fares down to each component work for everything else but food??????
If prices do not go up does that mean that a food component was in the fares but the service not provided?

I expect fares to rise, if they do not, it will mean that they have been playing loose with the truth when talking about breaking down fares to allow customers
to make their own choices.

Hmmm...I wonder if travelers in AA Basic Economy will be served the "free" meal...

DP can't wait for the cost of fuel to go back up!

phatfarmlines wrote:

DP can't wait for the cost of fuel to go back up!

But, if the cost of fuel goes up, and fares go up, too, then you will see companies cutting back travel. And, if the price of gasoline goes up, consumers will forego leisure air travel, in order to pay for gas.

The only industry that wants oil prices to go up is the oil industry, because many wells, especially those that utilize fracking, need prices north of $50 a barrel to be profitable.

There is a limit as to the number of flights that AA can offer meal service in coach. The coach galleys were downsized on both the MD-80s and the 738s. To offer anything beyond pretzels, peanuts, potato chips, and other non-perishable items would mean taking out seats to install larger galleys. The reason AA is starting with the JFK trans-cons is because the A321Ts probably have enough galley space to offer a plated meal in Y.

This is a good move by the airlines, and is long overdue. Or, rather, free meals on such long sectors should never have been removed in the first place. Airlines can get away with not offering meals on a sector up to about 4 hours, but anything beyond that and it is my belief that the airlines have a responsibility to feed their passengers.

It is easy enough to be dismissive and say, "Just grab something in the terminal prior to departure" but I have done early departures where there were no decent dining options open in the departure terminal, leaving me quite famished by the time I have arrived at my destination some 5 hours later. Even the Admiral's Club does not really offer much choice, although it is better at breakfast than at other times of the day.

Well done to AA and DL. Shall we take bets on how long it takes UA to follow suit?

vhtje wrote:

This is a good move by the airlines, and is long overdue. Or, rather, free meals on such long sectors should never have been removed in the first place. Airlines can get away with not offering meals on a sector up to about 4 hours, but anything beyond that and it is my belief that the airlines have a responsibility to feed their passengers.

It is easy enough to be dismissive and say, "Just grab something in the terminal prior to departure" but I have done early departures where there were no decent dining options open in the departure terminal, leaving me quite famished by the time I have arrived at my destination some 5 hours later. Even the Admiral's Club does not really offer much choice, although it is better at breakfast than at other times of the day.

Well done to AA and DL. Shall we take bets on how long it takes UA to follow suit?

They never took food away. You can buy it in the terminal or on the plane.

jfklganyc wrote:

Hello B6...your turn to step to the plate and swing the bat.

So glad the pendulum is swinging the other way.

It's crappy food but it kills an hour where you are a captive audience

Does Jetblue have the galleys equipped to serve meals? They have never served a hot meal in economy as far as I know.

I think AA is giving out boxed lunches since thry probably don't have adequate ovens in the A321s for a real meal.

United has to be next. How long before we see an announcement from them?

Well done to AA and DL. Shall we take bets on how long it takes UA to follow suit?[/quote]

So random thought. Why doesn't UA do the maths.........calculates how much per head a meal costs on average to give passengers in Y on these routes and instead of offering it, simply deduct the costs from the ticket? Most in Y book because of the cost of the ticket not if there is a meal unless they are frequent flyers. UA fills seats. Just throwing it out there......to be shot down lol

jfklganyc wrote:

Hello B6...your turn to step to the plate and swing the bat.

So glad the pendulum is swinging the other way.

It's crappy food but it kills an hour where you are a captive audience

Definitely, as well as direct competitor VX. I wonder if UA will feel the pressure. Given that EWR-LAX/SFO does not have AA/DL/B6 competing - with specialized products - UA may not see the need to match.

there are multiple reasons why airlines are re-introducing meals in economy, particularly due to segmentation.

https://www.travelcodex.com/2017/03/ame ... hes-delta/

UAL777UK wrote:

Well done to AA and DL. Shall we take bets on how long it takes UA to follow suit?

So random thought. Why doesn't UA do the maths.........calculates how much per head a meal costs on average to give passengers in Y on these routes and instead of offering it, simply deduct the costs from the ticket? Most in Y book because of the cost of the ticket not if there is a meal unless they are frequent flyers. UA fills seats. Just throwing it out there......to be shot down lol[/quote]

1. United lowers price of ticket $7.
2. AA/DL lower price of ticket $7.
3. UA now has less revenue than if they'd just left the fare the same and still skipped the meal.

Maybe if they handed each passenger $7 as they boarded the plane and said "We have BoB - thank you for flying United", it'd have a different impact? It's a quandary.

I find it ironic that the likes of BA have only recently chosen to follow the route of AA (and UA & DL) by removing free food on European routes to BoB. But only a couple of months after they do it, AA start to reintroduce free meals. I agree there are few BA European routes as long as JFK-LAX but I can see this being just the first step for AA. JFK- MIA or DFW could be next.

Could it be argued AA are now providing a better hard product than BA? (IFE on narrowbodys, MCE for free for OneWorld elites, free tea / coffee on all flights)....

Seeing this thread and the earlier one about Delta reinstating meals, made me remember how airline food was basic grist for comedians. Now that the meals are back, how long until the jokes are too?

Eirules wrote:

I find it ironic that the likes of BA have only recently chosen to follow the route of AA (and UA & DL) by removing free food on European routes to BoB. But only a couple of months after they do it, AA start to reintroduce free meals. I agree there are few BA European routes as long as JFK-LAX but I can see this being just the first step for AA. JFK- MIA or DFW could be next.

Could it be argued AA are now providing a better hard product than BA? (IFE on narrowbodys, MCE for free for OneWorld elites, free tea / coffee on all flights)....

Nearly all European flights are within 3 hours, so this is more tolerable. But I am surprised that it's AA (who has strong reputation for squeezing every penny wherever they can) offers whole meals for free. If so - it does look like a reversal of the trend. Who knows, maybe in 10 years' time 77Ws will be going back to 3-3-3?

Polot wrote:

Mortyman wrote:

Nothing is free. The cost is hidden in the overall ticket price.

Assuming of course, the ticket prices go up as a result of this announcement, or AA were planning on lower ticket prices.

In this case it literally is free- AA is eating the costs to remain competitive with DL in this very important market. That is why it is free only for the JFK-LAX/SFO transcons, and not all of the many other transcons/near-transcons flights AA operates.

Airlines are flush with cash now due entirely to low fuel prices. The cost of the coach class meals are very low, pasta, salads, etc. Once oil goes up, meals will go away. Remember when Usairways charged for water? Airways management is running AA.

PlanesNTrains wrote:

UAL777UK wrote:

Well done to AA and DL. Shall we take bets on how long it takes UA to follow suit?

So random thought. Why doesn't UA do the maths.........calculates how much per head a meal costs on average to give passengers in Y on these routes and instead of offering it, simply deduct the costs from the ticket? Most in Y book because of the cost of the ticket not if there is a meal unless they are frequent flyers. UA fills seats. Just throwing it out there......to be shot down lol

1. United lowers price of ticket $7.
2. AA/DL lower price of ticket $7.
3. UA now has less revenue than if they'd just left the fare the same and still skipped the meal.

Maybe if they handed each passenger $7 as they boarded the plane and said "We have BoB - thank you for flying United", it'd have a different impact? It's a quandary.[/quote]

5 airlines are competing in the LAX/SFO to New York market. Fares are pretty close on all of them. How do airlines differentiate themselves? Higher quality service is one way. The transcons are where the best product is offered regarding business class and economy. While economy service is usually limited to having the latest IFE, free meals can differentiate. If UA tried to lower fares since they are still BOB, everyone else will drop their fares and still offer meals when UA does not.

Handing $7 per passenger at boarding is a strange idea. Gifts were outlawed back in the days of regulation and while a few airlines got creative like KLM with the delft houses given to business class passengers, I don't know of anyone who has tried offering gifts to economy passengers since deregulation ended.

32andBelow wrote:

vhtje wrote:

This is a good move by the airlines, and is long overdue. Or, rather, free meals on such long sectors should never have been removed in the first place. Airlines can get away with not offering meals on a sector up to about 4 hours, but anything beyond that and it is my belief that the airlines have a responsibility to feed their passengers.

It is easy enough to be dismissive and say, "Just grab something in the terminal prior to departure" but I have done early departures where there were no decent dining options open in the departure terminal, leaving me quite famished by the time I have arrived at my destination some 5 hours later. Even the Admiral's Club does not really offer much choice, although it is better at breakfast than at other times of the day.

Well done to AA and DL. Shall we take bets on how long it takes UA to follow suit?

They never took food away. You can buy it in the terminal or on the plane.

Are you personally buying it for me? I'm flying on Sunday so I'll PM you my Venmo.

Monkey see, monkey do. Not surprised that AA is matching on the premium transcons. Looks like it will be more of a true "meal" than DL's snack, but it still stretches the term.

I see UA being the least likely to do this since EWR doesn't have the same head-to-head competition. Few people would ever switch airports just for a free snack. Their competitive position is little-changed. I still wouldn't be surprised if they do add them, but I wouldn't expect it like I did for AA.

Great to see the uptick in service offered. I am skeptical that it might be a dead-cat-bounce so to speak but this a awesome to see competition moving airline "up market."

With few airlines, similar prices, airlines need to differentiate / keep pace. Maybe free booze in Y?

miaami wrote:

AA will match DL with free coach meals on the JFK-LAX/SFO transcon market starting in May.

I really don't understand this move. Domestically, the US Big3 need to get away from offering anything free, even transcon. All the more so with food, which entails a separate department and dozens of personnel to manage the contracts. Internationally, yes, providing complementary meals should continue. I just don't see the benefit of doing so on domestic flights.

anrec80 wrote:

Who knows, maybe in 10 years' time 77Ws will be going back to 3-3-3?

Well part of AAs 772/77W seating is still 9 abreast and will stay even with the retrofit to add W about to begin. MCE is staying regardless.

First, we need to see AA's definition of a "meal", all this may just end up being hot air if all you get is a plastic bag with a selection of pretzels, cheese sticks, trail mix, a piece of fruit, etc.

Skyguy wrote:

First, we need to see AA's definition of a "meal", all this may just end up being hot air if all you get is a plastic bag with a selection of pretzels, cheese sticks, trail mix, a piece of fruit, etc.

Breakfast is a bagel and yogurt with granola, or Apple slices and a muffin with granola yogurt

Lunch/Dinner is two different wrap options, with chips and a cookie or brownie. Vegetarian option is available on request but it doesn't specify what it is, a fruit and cheese plate is also available as an alternative to the wraps.

And when you think that on a DFW-HNL flight in Y Class you don't get a free meal...no hot meal on a 9-hour flight. Look at BOS-LAX, just about as long as BOS-LHR, it's even longer than JFK-LAX and you still don't get a free hot meal in Y Class. In my opinion, AA's next move should be considering offering free hot meals in Y Class on all nonstop flights 5 hours or more, whether domestic or international, two meals if the flight is 7 hours or more.

American 767 wrote:

And when you think that on a DFW-HNL flight in Y Class you don't get a free meal...no hot meal on a 9-hour flight. Look at BOS-LAX, just about as long as BOS-LHR, it's even longer than JFK-LAX and you still don't get a free hot meal in Y Class. In my opinion, AA's next move should be considering offering free hot meals in Y Class on all nonstop flights 5 hours or more, whether domestic or international, two meals if the flight is 7 hours or more.

AA serves free coach meals on DFW-HNL/OGG/KOA.

miaami wrote:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/free-main-cabin-meals-coming-150000861.html
AA will match DL with free coach meals on the JFK-LAX/SFO transcon market starting in May.

Please get the title of the thread changed - it is not accurate as written.

At least add "Select" or list the 3 cities involved.

Or perhaps the mods can just do it directly...

Thanx

bb

When they call themselves "full-service airlines", apparently something was missing.
Good news. Airline catering is not cheap. Hope it expands to other markets.

MSPNWA wrote:

Monkey see, monkey do. Not surprised that AA is matching on the premium transcons. Looks like it will be more of a true "meal" than DL's snack, but it still stretches the term.

I see UA being the least likely to do this since EWR doesn't have the same head-to-head competition. Few people would ever switch airports just for a free snack. Their competitive position is little-changed. I still wouldn't be surprised if they do add them, but I wouldn't expect it like I did for AA.

I flew DL transcon on JFK-LAX a couple weeks ago and the AA offering (see below) looks to be identical to what I experienced on DL. On what basis do you believe to be more of a true "meal" that what DL offers? I got the turkey sandwich with DL that came with chips and a brownie. I can assure it was quite substantial. They also had a vegetarian wrap option and a fruit and cheese platter. They later came by with ice cream bars.

"Depending on the time of day, customers will be offered a continental breakfast or a boxed meal with a sandwich wrap, kettle chips and dessert. The menu also includes a vegetarian option and a fruit and cheese plate. The new meal service begins May 1."

Eirules wrote:

Could it be argued AA are now providing a better hard product than BA? (IFE on narrowbodys, MCE for free for OneWorld elites, free tea / coffee on all flights)....

I do not think it can be argued: I think it can be stated as an absolute certain fact: AA's recent fleet are far ahead of BA's.

Seat pitch:
AA
Business: 40"
Main Cabin Extra 35"
Main Cabin 31"
BA
Club Europe 30"
EuroTraveller 29"

IFE:
AA
Setback IFE
WiFi (fee)
Power outlet at every seat
USB Port
BA
er... pass (overhead TV screen on some aircraft)

Food:
AA
Free snacks and alcoholic drinks for oneworld elites;
BOB food/snacks and alcoholic drinks for others
Free tea/coffee, water and soft drinks
BA
BOB only for all including tea/coffee/soft drinks

I suspect that alot of the concessions that airlines were able to extract from the FA unions were some sort of agreement of reduction of workload in return for reduced salaries or delayed pay raises. Given that full meal service takes time and for FA's it is incremental more work in terms of another round up and down the aisle delivering and picking up meal trays or garbage, AA probably didn't want to bring back meal service due to this reason. On international flights like to Europe from the US, the Y meals on AA are one of the worst you can find on a full-service and well established airline, so these wraps etc, while cold, may be a step in the right direction but it's highly unlikely for full hot meal service of decades ago to make a return in Y.

Newbiepilot wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

UAL777UK wrote:

Well done to AA and DL. Shall we take bets on how long it takes UA to follow suit?

So random thought. Why doesn't UA do the maths.........calculates how much per head a meal costs on average to give passengers in Y on these routes and instead of offering it, simply deduct the costs from the ticket? Most in Y book because of the cost of the ticket not if there is a meal unless they are frequent flyers. UA fills seats. Just throwing it out there......to be shot down lol

1. United lowers price of ticket $7.
2. AA/DL lower price of ticket $7.
3. UA now has less revenue than if they'd just left the fare the same and still skipped the meal.

Maybe if they handed each passenger $7 as they boarded the plane and said "We have BoB - thank you for flying United", it'd have a different impact? It's a quandary.

5 airlines are competing in the LAX/SFO to New York market. Fares are pretty close on all of them. How do airlines differentiate themselves? Higher quality service is one way. The transcons are where the best product is offered regarding business class and economy. While economy service is usually limited to having the latest IFE, free meals can differentiate. If UA tried to lower fares since they are still BOB, everyone else will drop their fares and still offer meals when UA does not.

Handing $7 per passenger at boarding is a strange idea. Gifts were outlawed back in the days of regulation and while a few airlines got creative like KLM with the delft houses given to business class passengers, I don't know of anyone who has tried offering gifts to economy passengers since deregulation ended.[/quote]

The suggestion of handing cash out as people board was somewhat tongue-in-cheek - it'd never happen. They'd just offer free or reduce price BoB and call it good.

RvA wrote:

anrec80 wrote:

Who knows, maybe in 10 years' time 77Ws will be going back to 3-3-3?

Well part of AAs 772/77W seating is still 9 abreast and will stay even with the retrofit to add W about to begin. MCE is staying regardless.

Yep and I like the new way pay for what you want. MCE if you want 9 across to those that are price conscious can have 10 across. I love the directions airlines have gone to with the mergers so far if they can keep improving there product it IMOP it is a good thing. I like the pay for what you want system. I'll miss certain airlines but love the stability that so far has come about.

Mortyman wrote:

Nothing is free. The cost is hidden in the overall ticket price.

Back it up. You can say this about every price/service change and be wrong half the time.

American 767 wrote:

And when you think that on a DFW-HNL flight in Y Class you don't get a free meal...no hot meal on a 9-hour flight. Look at BOS-LAX, just about as long as BOS-LHR, it's even longer than JFK-LAX and you still don't get a free hot meal in Y Class. In my opinion, AA's next move should be considering offering free hot meals in Y Class on all nonstop flights 5 hours or more, whether domestic or international, two meals if the flight is 7 hours or more.

Would you rather have Free or higher quality buy options. I'd rather have better quality and changing choices. Unfortunately most people don't appear to think like me.

grbauc wrote:

RvA wrote:

anrec80 wrote:

Who knows, maybe in 10 years' time 77Ws will be going back to 3-3-3?

Well part of AAs 772/77W seating is still 9 abreast and will stay even with the retrofit to add W about to begin. MCE is staying regardless.

Yep and I like the new way pay for what you want. MCE if you want 9 across to those that are price conscious can have 10 across. I love the directions airlines have gone to with the mergers so far if they can keep improving there product it IMOP it is a good thing. I like the pay for what you want system. I'll miss certain airlines but love the stability that so far has come about.

Easier said than done - MCE is easily 2x more than regular Y, for amount of space +10-15%.

anrec80 wrote:

grbauc wrote:

RvA wrote:

Well part of AAs 772/77W seating is still 9 abreast and will stay even with the retrofit to add W about to begin. MCE is staying regardless.

Yep and I like the new way pay for what you want. MCE if you want 9 across to those that are price conscious can have 10 across. I love the directions airlines have gone to with the mergers so far if they can keep improving there product it IMOP it is a good thing. I like the pay for what you want system. I'll miss certain airlines but love the stability that so far has come about.

Easier said than done - MCE is easily 2x more than regular Y, for amount of space +10-15%.

How is it 2x? Hardly the case I think? How much is an MCE seat vs the average Y fare? (I mean cabin bot the inventory)
Granted I know it isn't cheap but you always have some chance of ending up there at time of check-in too. I've been in it twice by chance.
At least it's still available I guess, better than not at all.

Newbiepilot wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

UAL777UK wrote:

Well done to AA and DL. Shall we take bets on how long it takes UA to follow suit?

So random thought. Why doesn't UA do the maths.........calculates how much per head a meal costs on average to give passengers in Y on these routes and instead of offering it, simply deduct the costs from the ticket? Most in Y book because of the cost of the ticket not if there is a meal unless they are frequent flyers. UA fills seats. Just throwing it out there......to be shot down lol

1. United lowers price of ticket $7.
2. AA/DL lower price of ticket $7.
3. UA now has less revenue than if they'd just left the fare the same and still skipped the meal.

Maybe if they handed each passenger $7 as they boarded the plane and said "We have BoB - thank you for flying United", it'd have a different impact? It's a quandary.

5 airlines are competing in the LAX/SFO to New York market. Fares are pretty close on all of them. How do airlines differentiate themselves? Higher quality service is one way. The transcons are where the best product is offered regarding business class and economy. While economy service is usually limited to having the latest IFE, free meals can differentiate. If UA tried to lower fares since they are still BOB, everyone else will drop their fares and still offer meals when UA does not.

Handing $7 per passenger at boarding is a strange idea. Gifts were outlawed back in the days of regulation and while a few airlines got creative like KLM with the delft houses given to business class passengers, I don't know of anyone who has tried offering gifts to economy passengers since deregulation ended.[/quote]
You think these economy class wrap/sandwich meals cost even close to $7????

Hint: that's on the higher end of the food costs for business class meals.

michman wrote:

I flew DL transcon on JFK-LAX a couple weeks ago and the AA offering (see below) looks to be identical to what I experienced on DL. On what basis do you believe to be more of a true "meal" that what DL offers? I got the turkey sandwich with DL that came with chips and a brownie. I can assure it was quite substantial. They also had a vegetarian wrap option and a fruit and cheese platter. They later came by with ice cream bars.

Did you fly during the test period? Or was this after March 1st? And was this in Y or C+?

DL made no mention of the chips and dessert in their press release for the March 1st launch, so if they are doing it, that would be the same as AA's offering.

Newbiepilot wrote:

1. United lowers price of ticket $7.
2. AA/DL lower price of ticket $7.
3. UA now has less revenue than if they'd just left the fare the same and still skipped the meal.

Maybe if they handed each passenger $7 as they boarded the plane and said "We have BoB - thank you for flying United", it'd have a different impact? It's a quandary.

You think these economy class wrap/sandwich meals cost even close to $7????

Hint: that's on the higher end of the food costs for business class meals.

Thnx to whomever fixed the title.

bb

keitherson wrote:

Newbiepilot wrote:

1. United lowers price of ticket $7.
2. AA/DL lower price of ticket $7.
3. UA now has less revenue than if they'd just left the fare the same and still skipped the meal.

Maybe if they handed each passenger $7 as they boarded the plane and said "We have BoB - thank you for flying United", it'd have a different impact? It's a quandary.

You think these economy class wrap/sandwich meals cost even close to $7????

Hint: that's on the higher end of the food costs for business class meals.

Usually buy on board meals are sold pretty close to at cost for the fresh food. It is perishable and must usually be used within two flights. Buy on board profits usually come from packaged snacks and snack boxes or alcohol. It adds a lot to the cost to have a catering truck load food onboard that doesn't exist when distributing similar food through restaurants. A hot economy meal averages $10 and business class $40. Add in alcohol and there are airlines spending over $100 per business class passenger.

http://www.mightytravels.com/2014/12/ho ... ally-cost/

ITB wrote:

miaami wrote:

AA will match DL with free coach meals on the JFK-LAX/SFO transcon market starting in May.

I really don't understand this move. Domestically, the US Big3 need to get away from offering anything free, even transcon. All the more so with food, which entails a separate department and dozens of personnel to manage the contracts. Internationally, yes, providing complementary meals should continue. I just don't see the benefit of doing so on domestic flights.

They don't need "a separate department and dozens of personnel"; they already have those people handling food purchases for Domestic First Class, Coach snacks, and International flights. If the cost of a meal is incremental - and the passengers are happier and more loyal - then it is well worth it.