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ahj2000
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AA to downsize Camagüey and Cienfuegos

Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:47 pm

Both are going to Republic 175s from April 4th. Source airlineroute

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TheLion
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Re: AA to downsize Camagüey and Cienfuegos

Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:07 pm

Quite possibly. So many capacity reductions in such a short space of time...
 
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LAXintl
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Re: AA to downsize Camagüey and Cienfuegos

Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:40 pm

Old news - was announced in December.

Was to change to RJET in February, but delayed to April.


AA transfering two Cuba routes from mainline to Republic
viewtopic.php?t=1347917

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miaskies
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Re: AA to downsize Camagüey and Cienfuegos

Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:45 am

I think even if these routes would have exploded with over the top load factors they would have eventually IMO gone E175 in the long run - perfect size aircraft for secondary markets in Latin America and Cuba. Not to say that during peak (Winter, Easter) you could upgauge to an additional 319 frequency what not. Good for AA, grow the market steadily and slowly - the E175 is perfect.
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Apprentice
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Re: AA to downsize Camagüey and Cienfuegos

Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:15 am

TheLion wrote:
Quite possibly. So many capacity reductions in such a short space of time...


1. There were thoughts about US's citizen restriction to flight to Cuba, would be lifted......

2 It is harder to get a visa x a Cuban citizen traveler, no comparable with citizens of others Latin countries.
.

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TheLion
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Re: AA to downsize Camagüey and Cienfuegos

Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:24 pm

Apprentice wrote:
TheLion wrote:
Quite possibly. So many capacity reductions in such a short space of time...


1. There were thoughts about US's citizen restriction to flight to Cuba, would be lifted......

2 It is harder to get a visa x a Cuban citizen traveler, no comparable with citizens of others Latin countries.

Rgds/ Apprentice


Definitely a good thing. The last thing Cuba needs is Americanisation and rampant capitalism overtaking it. The country needs a transition period to allow it to develop organically like most other developing nations.
 
incitatus
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Re: AA to downsize Camagüey and Cienfuegos

Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:10 pm

TheLion wrote:

Definitely a good thing. The last thing Cuba needs is Americanisation and rampant capitalism overtaking it. The country needs a transition period to allow it to develop organically like most other developing nations.


The last thing Cuba needs is more of what it has gotten in the last 50 years. It is very easy to sit down behind a computer in the comfort of an air conditioned room in a developed country and pontificate about what people who can't even get a kilo of meat actually need. Cubans want what people in other countries have: quality food, cars, air conditioning, iphones, appliances, and so on. It cannot come soon enough.
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Cointrin330
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Re: AA to downsize Camagüey and Cienfuegos

Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:53 pm

Think this was announced earlier this year. The rush to fly to Cuba hasn't been met with an avalanche of demand, for a number of reasons. First, it's still not that simple and straightforward to visit Cuba. There is a shortage of quality accommodations throughout the country. Internet and WiFi is still not up to standards found elsewhere. Major credit cards aren't easily accepted so you have to bring a lot of cash.

Cuba is likely to transform more slowly and maybe that's a good thing.

Outside of Havana, a lot of the extra capacity thrown into this market just don't make a whole lot of sense, for now.
 
NichCage
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Re: AA to downsize Camagüey and Cienfuegos

Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:05 pm

Its not surprising to see airlines end flights to Cuba. The market has been getting too many flights. Frontier Airlines and Silver Airways are ending flights to Cuba if I am correct.
 
guyanam
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Re: AA to downsize Camagüey and Cienfuegos

Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:12 pm

[quote="incitatus]
The last thing Cuba needs is more of what it has gotten in the last 50 years. It is very easy to sit down behind a computer in the comfort of an air conditioned room in a developed country and pontificate about what people who can't even get a kilo of meat actually need. Cubans want what people in other countries have: quality food, cars, air conditioning, iphones, appliances, and so on. It cannot come soon enough.[/quote]

Yes I am always amused by these people, usually European or Canadian, who pontificate on what Cuba needs. Do they really think that most Cubans like what they have? Do they imagine that Cubans really love driving cars as old as their parents? Or battling to get scarce seats on the limited bus service available?

Do they think that most Cubans wouldn't want some of the benefits of a society where they can have more control over their lives, and one where getting basic supplies doesn't require the genius of Einstein? I don't see Bahamians flocking over to Cuba to live, and yet there are Cubans living in The Bahamas. Even Haitians don't want to live in Cuba, even as 100k live in the Bahamas.

It is notable that AA hasn't downsized its HAV route.F9 shouldn't have been on the MIA HAV route any way and I am also skeptical of DL on that route. The secondary routes were always speculative.
 
grbauc
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Re: AA to downsize Camagüey and Cienfuegos

Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:30 pm

incitatus wrote:
TheLion wrote:

Definitely a good thing. The last thing Cuba needs is Americanisation and rampant capitalism overtaking it. The country needs a transition period to allow it to develop organically like most other developing nations.


The last thing Cuba needs is more of what it has gotten in the last 50 years. It is very easy to sit down behind a computer in the comfort of an air conditioned room in a developed country and pontificate about what people who can't even get a kilo of meat actually need. Cubans want what people in other countries have: quality food, cars, air conditioning, iphones, appliances, and so on. It cannot come soon enough.


Thank you well said.

I have conservative friends that wonder why I go to Cuba they think I should not go there because I'm showing my support for the communism however I believe my going there I will be helping them more to gain more of the freedoms I believe in.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: AA to downsize Camagüey and Cienfuegos

Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:31 pm

incitatus wrote:
TheLion wrote:

Definitely a good thing. The last thing Cuba needs is Americanisation and rampant capitalism overtaking it. The country needs a transition period to allow it to develop organically like most other developing nations.


The last thing Cuba needs is more of what it has gotten in the last 50 years. It is very easy to sit down behind a computer in the comfort of an air conditioned room in a developed country and pontificate about what people who can't even get a kilo of meat actually need. Cubans want what people in other countries have: quality food, cars, air conditioning, iphones, appliances, and so on. It cannot come soon enough.


I'm more inclined to side with incitatus, here - but bemoan his tone, only slightly. The reality is that, on the ground - conditions need to improve. The current Cuban regime acknowledges that (albeit it, tacitly). As is, it is not as if Cubans don't know of, have the demand for (and some already do have) many of the 'amenities' listed above. Both of you tip-toe around yet another issue that you will likely both agree on. Reform of the Cuban Peso; especially what to do with the convertible peso - not only how tourists access it, but the crucial question of how will ex-patriate Cubans {current Cuban-Americans} will be respected, treated, and allowed to not only access greater quantities of said peso, but also a lesser tax burden on remittances - under the concept that these will likely be the most capable ambassadors to that market for U.S. investment - the vast majority of which has been, and under the current political climate, will continue to be - almost majorly dependent upon them, until significant change begins. This will allow a more conservative solution towards growth (more laissez-faire, less government involvement in the activities into the private sector businesses/investments that these groups/individuals will invest in). For the sake of sovereignty the Cuban government can/should outline specifically where/how investment can be limited on their own territory (not allowing ex-patriates to fund political campaigns, or be involved in classified matters of the Cuban state, et al). The the issue of infrastructure spending comes into play - with prioritization (bowing to the local ruling elite, and corruption - vs the instability and lack of control that comes with complete privatization - and let's not consider how the U.S. answered that last question, the last time around...). I cannot see, such a complex history - being undone so quickly. There are significant questions to not only be asked, but also answered and acted upon, by a government that must balance realities with relinquishing controls, and opening to even further privatization. These are as much the strong suits of the Cuban Communist Regime, as has been their ability to properly advance the quality and standards of life for their people (which ties us back into the need for quality food, cars, air conditioning...et al). The palatability of Havana, towards liberalization idea is noted - however, how much longer will Caracas be able to help? We often note how poorly the economic situation is in Venezuela, and almost completely ignore the past close ties between Cuba and Venezuela.

So, returning to change - and to topic - AA is primed to see Cuba grow. As is, with MIA, it simply has to sit atop the largest market for U.S. based Cuban travel, and watch the others shake out. Every other 'fall-out' only strengthens AA's position, and likely yields. As is, with the smallest (and, also - most nimble) opportunity - it can only look up in terms of growth. It's a matter of staying power, at this point - and few are better advantaged here, than AA. If only, for sh*ts-and-giggles; AA could fly these are utility flying. What's the flight time on MIA-CFG? Unless we see a further worsening of the situation - the market, as is - is as bad as it will get. From here, the changes necessary are incumbent upon the Cuban government - and those changes are certainly more manageable over a 'transitionary' period (a la, the present and short-medium term future), where some of the above questions can be asked, contemplated and answered/managed by the Cubans to a term more pallatable to their capacities. I mean, I want everyone to have an IPhone, but essentially 'opening the flood gates' is not the best option either.

Case in point - how does one get an IPhone in Cuba today? It has to be 'brought' from the U.S. What warranty, or liability - is offered to the Cuban who purchases it? I am not advocating setting up Apple stores in Cinefuegos, but as is - even owning an IPhone (if not well connected/explained) in Cuba is an 'issue', no? This is the most portable of those things listed. We haven't even discussed how to transport the cars, appliances, air conditioners, and quality food - in that order. Most of that will be shipped, and then taxed, and all that jazz. If not well connected, and well paid up - it's an impossibility now. That kind of change, systemic - does not happen quickly and well. We haven't even discussed the tarrifs, the export bans, the issues with corruption, the complexities of tranportation/logistics - lack of proper infrastructure in key areas in Cuba. To your point, though - I've seen the MIA check-in for the Cuban Charter flights. Everything, and the kitchen sink. Without exaggeration - many men will wear entire layers of clothing, multiple stacking hats and wearing them also - in order to save on the space for the checked luggage. The need is almost as maddening, as it is saddening to consider how much many of these people do for their families back home, and how much change is necessary - and how quickly. As equal a tragedy as running towards a hasty solution would be, letting the Communist Governements past MO of dragging their feet/control must be tackled. Change is necessary, we can all agree on that much.

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