skipness1E
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New aircraft delivered with old branding

Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:01 pm

Air Canada have just taken a new B787-9 (C-FRSO) from KCHS, in the old spearmint colours. Which on one level is odd as they re-branded a while back and rather than be delivered in all white and allow Air Canada to finish the job or paint the aircraft in the new colours themselves.

I also remember BA had two B757s (G-CPES/T) and B763 (G-BNWZ) delivered in Landor long after the world tales were launched. Why DOES this happen?
Last edited by qf789 on Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: spelling in title
 
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JannEejit
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Re: New aicraft delivered with old branding

Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:05 pm

Presumably there's some sort of cut off point within the purchasing/manufacturing process in terms of fixtures, fittings, paint etc ? I can imagine the odd aircraft falling foul of livery changes because of this. I tried changing the colour of a car I ordered, 3 months before it was due to be delivered and was told it had already been sprayed and couldn't be changed. It's also possibly cheaper for the airline to negotiate it's own respray in-house or elsewhere ?
 
KLDC10
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Re: New aicraft delivered with old branding

Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:09 pm

A few AA 737s were delivered in the old 'Silverbird' scheme immediately following the unveiling of the new livery. It just takes a bit of time for airplane manufacturers to adjust to a new scheme, which means that there might be an oddball here and there. Air Canada's 787s will be delivered in the new scheme as soon as it is possible for Boeing to do so.
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Polot
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Re: New aicraft delivered with old branding

Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:10 pm

Well for starters, if Airbus/Boeing are not supplied the proper documentation needed to paint the new livery on the plane (the airline may not have it ready yet, it has to be tailored for every single aircraft type/variant) they are going to paint it in the old livery that they have the plans for unless they are told otherwise (i.e. paint it all white).

The painters need to know the exact colors, proportions, and locations of all markings. They don't eyeball them. If decals are used they need the decals.
 
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4everRC
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Re: New aicraft delivered with old branding

Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:18 pm



You mean like this "beauty"?
Nobody served our republic like Republic!
 
KLDC10
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Re: New aicraft delivered with old branding

Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:26 pm

4everRC wrote:


You mean like this "beauty"?


I've seen that picture a few times in the past, but I'm always surprised by how well the A320 suits the old Northwest/Northwest Orient scheme.
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skipness1E
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Re: New aircraft delivered with old branding

Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:54 pm

Oh I was there for that, my dad took me to see that after school, NW6891 TLS-PIK-YYR, it was the only one that night stopped I think. AmTran L1011 visible behind too.
 
vv701
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Re: New aircraft delivered with old branding

Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:30 pm

skipness1E wrote:
I also remember BA had two B757s (G-CPES/T) and B763 (G-BNWZ) delivered in Landor long after the world tales were launched. Why DOES this happen?


The 763 ('WZ) was certainly delivered to in BA in their (old) Landor livery. But that was on 25 February 1997, more than three months before the worldwide launch of BA's new World Images liveries on 10 June that year. However it was not painted in the BA Interim livery that BA had been using since December of the previous year in preparation for the launch of World Images.

The last four newly manufactured 752s delivered to BA were G-CPEO, 'ER, 'ES and 'ET. ('EP was a second hand frame delivered to BA at LHR in Basic Venus Airlines livery on 15 April 1997.)

The first of the four brand new 752s, 'EO, was painted in the new BA Whale Rider livery by Boeing in great secrecy. It was rolled out of their paint shop at BFI on the day of World Images launch, 10 June 1997. This roll-out was part of BA's worldwide launch of their new World Images liveries. This aircraft was later delivered to BA at BFI over a month later on 12 July. It entered service on an LHR-CDG flight ten days later.

'ER was delivered to BA on 29 December 1997. This was more than six months after the World Images launch. On delivery it was already painted in the new BA Wings livery. It was followed by 'ES on 17 March 1998 . On delivery it was also in BA's Wings livery. 'ET followed on 12 May 1990 already painted in BA's Sterntaler livery. That was more than eleven months after World Images launch.

So the BA 757 is an example of a brand new aircraft being rolled out by its manufacturer in a customer's brand new and previously unseen livery as an integral part of the launch of that livery on the day of that launch.
 
OB1504
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Re: New aicraft delivered with old branding

Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:04 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
A few AA 737s were delivered in the old 'Silverbird' scheme immediately following the unveiling of the new livery. It just takes a bit of time for airplane manufacturers to adjust to a new scheme, which means that there might be an oddball here and there.


The new livery was unveiled in January 2013 and aircraft N913NN (3JX) thru N921NN (3KG) were delivered in the old colors. In April 2013 new 737 deliveries were in the new colors with the start of N922NN (3KH).



After the announcement of the AA/US merger in February 2013, US continued to take deliveries of aircraft in livery until March 2014, when A321 N578UW was the final aircraft to be delivered in US colors.



vv701 wrote:
So the BA 757 is an example of a brand new aircraft being rolled out by its manufacturer in a customer's brand new and previously unseen livery as an integral part of the launch of that livery on the day of that launch.


And on the other end of the spectrum, we have AA's 77W which was delivered with only the base paint and no markings or tail design.

 
Wingtips56
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Re: New aircraft delivered with old branding

Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:31 pm

For the US planes, yes, the merger agreement was made in February 2013, but escrow didn't close until later. It would have been foolish to role out LUS planes in the AA livery before closing just in case it didn't happen. However, yes some deliveries in US livery were made after escrow closed, as the manufacturer already had the commitments, such as what some posters noted above. AA commented about that at the time, but I can't find the statement.
As to the AA 77W, at least the first one was delivered without colors as it was to roll out the new AA livery, which had to be kept secret until announcement day. They tried to note expose even the blank plane as long as possible. The first couple were painted privately. I think Boeing rolled out the AA livery beginning with the 3rd frame, but I can't find that reference either.

Now that AS/VX has closed, and there is a gap between deliveries of new planes ordered by VX, I imagine those will be sporting Chester on the tail once they do start to roll out.

Any other lines currently in transition?
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
skipness1E
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Re: New aircraft delivered with old branding

Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:47 pm

Sorry am misremembering, with BA G-CPEM/N were delivered as Landor alongside G-BNWZ long after the hybrid livery was being rolled out. 20 years ago chaps, 20 years !!
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: New aicraft delivered with old branding

Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:20 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
A few AA 737s were delivered in the old 'Silverbird' scheme immediately following the unveiling of the new livery. It just takes a bit of time for airplane manufacturers to adjust to a new scheme, which means that there might be an oddball here and there. Air Canada's 787s will be delivered in the new scheme as soon as it is possible for Boeing to do so.


Well probably not as soon as possible. Boeing probably could have painted the airplane in the new scheme, but they probably would charge extra for the last minute change and it might have delayed the delivery. Everything has a cutoff date for when an airplane configuration must be complete. Changes too late in the process can result in schedule delays and cost extra. It probably wasn't worth it to make a last minute change.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: New aicraft delivered with old branding

Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:29 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
Well probably not as soon as possible. Boeing probably could have painted the airplane in the new scheme, but they probably would charge extra for the last minute change and it might have delayed the delivery. Everything has a cutoff date for when an airplane configuration must be complete. Changes too late in the process can result in schedule delays and cost extra. It probably wasn't worth it to make a last minute change.

I think you are right. It would make sense in the case of a merger or name change, but not in the case of a simple livery change. That's why it did seem odd that some of the last US planes were in US livery, but they did at least take advantage of the last one by designating it as the US Legacy plane (like the TW/OC/QQ/HP/PI/AL legacies), and but applying the AA title decal on the fuselage.

The tail rudders arrive at the FAL already in livery, though I can't see repainting them when the rest of the assembled airplane goes to the paint shop as being a show-stopper, requiring the rest of the airplane to match. Not the tail wagging the dog (pardon the pun).
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

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afcjets
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Re: New aircraft delivered with old branding

Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:01 am

Piedmont had new aircraft delivered with US Air's brown and red stripes but with the Piedmont name and font, but either right before or right after the merger in August 1989, US Air announced their new branding with red and blue. As a result, they had several different transition schemes.

Image
Image]
Image
 
afcjets
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Re: New aircraft delivered with old branding

Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:09 am

Not sure why I can't post the image of the ones I was referring to above, here are the links of the other two...

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Piedmont ... -ER/1350/L

https://www.flickr.com/photos/aero_icarus/12843922005
 
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accargofra
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Re: New aircraft delivered with old branding

Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:55 am

skipness1E wrote:
Air Canada have just taken a new B787-9 (C-FRSO) from KCHS, in the old spearmint colours. Which on one level is odd as they re-branded a while back and rather than be delivered in all white and allow Air Canada to finish the job or paint the aircraft in the new colours themselves.


i assume C-FRSO was already on the production line - and AC made quite a good job in keeping the new paint "secret" until the official show of the new livery. so they kept C-FRSO in the old colours to keep any speculation and leaking of the new colours off the table.
in addition that frame came from CHS to YYZ and went 7 hours later on her first revenue flight AC878 to ZRH - so no time for finishing a paintjob.

cheers

accargofra
 
N292UX
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Re: New aircraft delivered with old branding

Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:00 am

If I remember correctly, there may have been a few DL planes delivered in 2007 that had the "colors in motion" livery.
And this was after the intro of the new livery.
 
edmaircraft
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Re: New aircraft delivered with old branding

Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:05 am

I was going to ask a question exactly like this about AC...thanks.
Let me up!
 
vv701
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Re: New aircraft delivered with old branding

Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:18 am

skipness1E wrote:
Sorry am misremembering, with BA G-CPEM/N were delivered as Landor alongside G-BNWZ long after the hybrid livery was being rolled out. 20 years ago chaps, 20 years !!


Yup! 'EN's place in history at this point in time is that of being the last aircraft of any type to be rolled out in BA's Landor livery. That was on 17 March 1997 at BFI. But, cross fingers, perhaps we will get a retro Landor livery on a 744, or 772 at some future date. S'pose that could relegate 'EN's place in history to being the last .aircraft to enter service for the first time in BA's Landor livery. That was on an LHR-CGN flight on 4 May 1997, just over a month before BA's World Images launch.
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: New aircraft delivered with old branding

Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:04 pm

Wingtips56 wrote:
For the US planes, yes, the merger agreement was made in February 2013, but escrow didn't close until later. It would have been foolish to role out LUS planes in the AA livery before closing just in case it didn't happen. However, yes some deliveries in US livery were made after escrow closed, as the manufacturer already had the commitments, such as what some posters noted above. AA commented about that at the time, but I can't find the statement.
As to the AA 77W, at least the first one was delivered without colors as it was to roll out the new AA livery, which had to be kept secret until announcement day. They tried to note expose even the blank plane as long as possible. The first couple were painted privately. I think Boeing rolled out the AA livery beginning with the 3rd frame, but I can't find that reference either.

Now that AS/VX has closed, and there is a gap between deliveries of new planes ordered by VX, I imagine those will be sporting Chester on the tail once they do start to roll out.

Any other lines currently in transition?


Cautionary tale from US railroads--the "Shouldn't Paint So Fast" rail merger!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe%E2%80%93Southern_Pacific_merger#.22Kodachrome.22_paint_scheme
 
AirInterCRV
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Re: New aircraft delivered with old branding

Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:49 pm

The EIS of the first AF 388s coincided, more or less, with the rollout of the new livery.
It looks like F-HPJA first had the old tail scheme (4 blue stripes, lighter shade of blue) - apparently they had it re-painted with the new livery upon delivery though.

Feb. 2009 at TLS:


Oct. 2009 at XFW:
 
CF-CPI
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Re: New aircraft delivered with old branding

Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:07 pm

Flashback to 1974 ...... TWA introduces it's revised livery (double red stripe) replacing the old twin globes.

L1011 N81026 was configured right about that time and due to overcapacity and a bad economy (post fuel crisis), TW leased the aircraft out to Lockheed for a sales tour, with the old livery (still very fresh) and Lockheed titles.

TW eventually took delivery that spring, in the old scheme, while other L10s were slated for imminent repaint in the new colors. It was well into the early 80s before N81026 got the new livery, probably the last aircraft in the fleet to be so painted.
 
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TS-IOR
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Re: New aircraft delivered with old branding

Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:13 pm

Also Jazz/Air Canada Express just received a CRJ-9 with the, now, old Air Canada 'turquoise' livery
 
UA444
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Re: New aircraft delivered with old branding

Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:23 am

JAL 787s in rising sun livery were produced but not delivered as such.

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