caflyboy
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Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:22 am

Just curious. I know given slots at SNA are at a premium, but why is there no OC-HI Non-stop? If all three Bay Area Airports can support/ make money on non-stops to HI, it seems like there would be a market in S.Cal for more than LAX/SAN.

Who would be the first to do it Non-stop? Just curious.
 
MAH4546
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:23 am

It requires a 737-700. Aloha and Continental both flew the route.
a.
 
caflyboy
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:26 am

Right. They Flew it, but why is no one flying it now? DL/WN/UA/AS/SY all have 737-700s. With VX/AS combined, there is all three Bay Area covered, but only LAX and SAN out of S. Cal. Seems like a "West Coast airline of choice" might jump at that gap?
 
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CARST
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:51 am

Extremely short runway at SNA? Even the 737-700 might take a payload hit there and there are not many 737-700s around with the airlines.

And also for longer flights, people accept to go farther to the airport, so no need to offer Hawaii flights from every little airport in the country.
 
caflyboy
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:55 am

So was runway length a factor for AQ or CO when they flew it? I am not aware if it was or wasn't. And I get the small airport since mine is MRY and we will never see NS to HI. But OC, although small in size, sits in a HUGE geographic area with a lot of O/D. It seemed to work in the past, but why not now?
 
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aeromoe
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:56 am

Just an observation but I wouldn't exactly call 496 Southwest 737-700s "not many".
AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR BY B6 CO CP(2) DG DL EA EI EN FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(1) OZ(2) PA PI PT QF QQ RM RO RV(1) RV(2) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(2) ZZ 9K
 
b747400erf
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:23 am

United has ETOPS 737-700's does someone else? Why chase this small market when you can concentrate on other routes that are not full of restrictions like SNA is?
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:00 am

AS 73Gs aren't ETOPS equipped, nor do they have any plans to do so. While the 738 and 739ER fleets have the range, the runways at SNA would require weight restrictions for service to Hawaii, making them unprofitable for AS to attempt.
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KLMatSJC
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:36 am

caflyboy wrote:
And I get the small airport since mine is MRY and we will never see NS to HI.


Well G4 was going to start MRY-HNL a few years ago, so I would never say never.

The real issue with SNA is not the O/D at all. It is the length of the runway. MRY's runway is almost 2,000' longer than SNA. Although some airlines have aircraft capable for the flight doesn't mean it will operate. UA doesn't see a need considering how many flights they have out of LAX to the islands. And if you really want to fly from SNA, they will gladly route you through SFO. Obviously AQ can't fly the route anymore.
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ha763
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:06 am

caflyboy wrote:
So was runway length a factor for AQ or CO when they flew it? I am not aware if it was or wasn't. And I get the small airport since mine is MRY and we will never see NS to HI. But OC, although small in size, sits in a HUGE geographic area with a lot of O/D. It seemed to work in the past, but why not now?


Yes, the runway was an issue for AQ and CO. IIRC, AQ's flights were weight restricted SNA to Hawaii. They had higher weight restrictions when the Santa Ana's would be blowing.
 
b747400erf
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:08 am

aeromoe wrote:
Just an observation but I wouldn't exactly call 496 Southwest 737-700s "not many".

496 and 0 are etops
 
77H
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:54 am

b747400erf wrote:
United has ETOPS 737-700's does someone else? Why chase this small market when you can concentrate on other routes that are not full of restrictions like SNA is?


CO and then UA operated SNA-HNL/OGG for a brief time. From what I remember, the flights were timed at very odd hours. A few colleagues I know said it was a godsend for non-rev's trying to get to SoCal and beyond.

I remember reading not too long ago that SNA was looking for an airline to start operating to HI again. Perhaps UA would be willing to operate the route again if there was a subsidy and/or an additional slot added. From what I remember, part of the reason the flight was timed so oddly is because CO/UA did not want to waste a slot during prime time on leisure routes such as HI.

Other than, UA, I am not sure any airline could offer service to HI from SNA currently. AS and WN have no ETOPS 73G's, DL's 73G/H aircraft aren't ETOPS either. Could AA's sharklet equipped 319's physically make the trip given SNA's short runway? Either way, AA would need to certify their 319's for ETOPS.

77H
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:28 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
It requires a 737-700. Aloha and Continental both flew the route.


What about 757s? Payload restricted over that distance?
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:17 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
It requires a 737-700. Aloha and Continental both flew the route.


What about 757s? Payload restricted over that distance?


my guess is no given its impressive capabilities, if anyone would do it AA seems most likely or maybe UA. but the 757 is a dying breed so I doubt it.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:46 pm

How would the MAX 7 perform on SNA-HNL? Would it require any restrictions? How about HAs eventual A32neos?
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Aptivaboy
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:49 pm

I've asked this question before, as SNA is my home airport. It all comes to a few things.

1. Weight restrictions. SNA's small size means that 737s and A320s have a hard time getting in and out at full capacity. This capacity loss reduces revenue, thus making the route less profitable. Aloha faced this when flying their 737-700s, which had the range to do the route, but often had to block out seats in an already smaller frame.
2. As has been said, the 757 could probably do the job very well, but there are lesser numbers of them and airlines may want them on other routes.
3. There is the question of how many full flights per week an airline could squeeze out of SNA. I recall that apart from capacity and weight issues, Aloha sometimes couldn't fill the plane; I don't know about Continental. That would further reduce revenue. For the majors, many more flight connect through LAX and SAN, for example, than through SNA. Therefore, more connecting passengers can access flights through the the larger SoCal airports leading back to that revenue thingie again.

I'm sure there are other reasons. I would love to see it happen, though, as a fairly regular visitor the islands. Here's hoping Hawaiian will fly their A321s to Hawaii either through SNA or ONT. Actually, ONT would be the better choice in some ways to fly to Hawaii than SNA especially given it's longer runway. It's not that far from Orange County and the drive out the 57 and the 10 isn't actually all that bad. Here's hoping...

Bob
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:17 pm

Runway runway runway. Same reason why BUR has not been able to sustain a Hawaii flight.
When AQ tried BUR, on near daily basis they were leaving baggage behind.

Aptivaboy wrote:
I Actually, ONT would be the better choice in some ways to fly to Hawaii than SNA especially given it's longer runway. It's not that far from Orange County and the drive out the 57 and the 10 isn't actually all that bad. Here's hoping...


Lets remember both HA and TZ tried ONT without long term success.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
mrcoffee
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:29 pm

When Aloha had the SNA-Hawaii, they had a tag on from PHX to SNA.

It was always nice to take, because it was cheap, and usually mildly empty. Was sorry to see that go. :(
 
CanesFan
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:36 pm

The Bombardier CSeries might be an option for this.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:50 pm

mrcoffee wrote:
When Aloha had the SNA-Hawaii, they had a tag on from PHX to SNA.

It was always nice to take, because it was cheap, and usually mildly empty. Was sorry to see that go. :(


So would AQ sell tickets between PHX and SNA?
 
MAH4546
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:02 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
mrcoffee wrote:
When Aloha had the SNA-Hawaii, they had a tag on from PHX to SNA.

It was always nice to take, because it was cheap, and usually mildly empty. Was sorry to see that go. :(


So would AQ sell tickets between PHX and SNA?


Yes, of course. Why wouldn't they? Aloha flew quite a few of intra-West routes from SAN, BUR and SNA to places like Reno, Phoenix, Sacramento and Las Vegas.
a.
 
catiii
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:14 pm

CARST wrote:
Extremely short runway at SNA? Even the 737-700 might take a payload hit there and there are not many 737-700s around with the airlines.



552 737-700s active in the USA...
 
COSPN
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:20 pm

SNA also has limited parking for RON flights.. so that was another issue..
 
azjubilee
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:25 pm

I wouldn't be shocked if HA has SNA on the list of potential 321neo routes. As for ONT, it was flown in the past but with widebody equipment. Flying a 321neo to ONT could potentially help add capacity to the LAX market, without committing to LAX and its congestion.
 
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:53 pm

I think it boils down to LAX being close lowers airfares too much. The 737-700 on continental still had to take weight limits flying West out of SNA. When you factor in a smaller plane that you cant sell all the seats in a market with low Hawaii airfares i think its just hard to make money. LAX fares are low to Hawaii its a competitive market with larger planes with lower per seat costs.
 
b747400erf
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:14 pm

With all the Hawaii talk every month it seems, Airliners.net should start an airline with ETOPS 737-700's for west coast America hops and A380's to Europe! Someone start a gofundme.
 
PDX88
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:58 pm

catiii wrote:
552 737-700s active in the USA...


90% of them belong to one airline that doesn't even fly to Hawaii, and none of them are ETOPS. So that kind of narrows down the number of 737-700s that are even capable of making the trip.
 
catiii
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:05 pm

PDX88 wrote:
catiii wrote:
552 737-700s active in the USA...


90% of them belong to one airline that doesn't even fly to Hawaii, and none of them are ETOPS. So that kind of narrows down the number of 737-700s that are even capable of making the trip.


That's not what the post I was responding to referenced though.
 
PDX88
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:14 pm

catiii wrote:
PDX88 wrote:
catiii wrote:
552 737-700s active in the USA...


90% of them belong to one airline that doesn't even fly to Hawaii, and none of them are ETOPS. So that kind of narrows down the number of 737-700s that are even capable of making the trip.


That's not what the post I was responding to referenced though.


The post you were referring I assumed the WN -700s weren't being considered. I think he meant airlines already with a Hawaiian presence that have the -700s, which there are very few.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:20 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Runway runway runway. Same reason why BUR has not been able to sustain a Hawaii flight.
When AQ tried BUR, on near daily basis they were leaving baggage behind.

Aptivaboy wrote:
I Actually, ONT would be the better choice in some ways to fly to Hawaii than SNA especially given it's longer runway. It's not that far from Orange County and the drive out the 57 and the 10 isn't actually all that bad. Here's hoping...


Lets remember both HA and TZ tried ONT without long term success.


As did Pacific East, anyone remember them?
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Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:04 pm

CanesFan wrote:
The Bombardier CSeries might be an option for this.


I second this.

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aerospace/2016-07-13/c-series-can-do-lcy-nyc-or-moscow
Bombardier has managed to squeeze another 140 nautical miles of range out of the C Series CS100 on flights to and from London City Airport (LCY), allowing the new narrowbody to fly 2,350 nautical miles with a full 108-seat passenger load.

It will also allow for direct service to JFK in a 42-passenger configuration. British Airways’ Airbus A318 flies 36 passengers on that route with a stop in Shannon, Ireland, for refueling.


In converse order, shade thrown to the A318 here, as the proposed unit (the article only specifically refers to the CS100 when making a designation) will carry more passengers, further. Quite an interesting craft indeed.

To the primary thought, though - LCY has a shorter runway at 4,948 feet, and has a much more distinct challenge in the means of approaches/departure angles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_City_Airport

SNA-HNL comes in at 2,548 miles http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SNA-HNL&MS=wls&DU=mi, which translates to 2214.15146 NM, which is cutting it a bit close (considering winds, or traffic congestion/holding, et al).

The saving grace here is that:
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aerospace/2016-07-13/c-series-can-do-lcy-nyc-or-moscow
“We designed the aircraft from the beginning to operate out of London City,” said Dewar. “It actually determined the size of the wing, some of the flight control surfaces and engine thrust settings as well…and there’s a button that the pilots select that has special control laws and landing procedures built into the aircraft.”


So, a potential CS100 could take the benefit of SNA's longer runway, sip the gas, and perform (highly likely without penalty).

Here's something to consider;
1). If only there were an airline with CS100s on order, and enough of them to perhaps have use for them (reportedly) on the West Coast, where their 'legs can be used' (as opposed to using their 717s).
2). Said airline would have quite a fun time with economics here. They had Bombardier by the bombardiers when they placed the order. The aircraft, based on real-world performance is impressive.
3). They could do it, to actually increase yields. Building LAX is great. Everyone does it, however - perhaps this airline could (with this aircraft, that performance, and a 'sponsored' slot from SNA) make it work.

I don't want to encourage the fan-boys, so, we'll just call said airline "Smelta"

On a side; the only other option would be an A320NEOSHARP. Yes, I know.

Airbus said the impetus for the modification arose from a desire to allow A320neo operations into Rio de Janeiro’s Santos Dumont airport, whose runway extends only some 1,300 meters (4,265 feet) in length. Along with the short runway, a mountain to one side and a long bridge on the other add to the landing challenge. Airbus said it has identified several operators that would like to fly A320neos into the airport.http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2015-09-21/airbus-readies-short-field-mod-a320neo


So, shorter than SNA, about the same length as LCY. Meant for challenges, but perhaps not the LCY type (to that level of approach, I assume).
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:16 pm

Or just wait for a "CS100ER". BBD know how to do ER bizjets.
 
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RayChuang
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:01 am

I think due to the relatively short runways and steep noise-abatement climbouts required at that airport, no wonder why no major airline will fly SNA-HNL. Besides, we already have a lot of capacity to HNL from LAX from four different airlines (AA, DL, HA and UA).
 
DTWSAN
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:38 am

santa ana aka John Wane Airport has too short of a runway and a curfew. LAX and SFO don't.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:00 am

Aptivaboy wrote:
I've asked this question before, as SNA is my home airport. It all comes to a few things.

1. Weight restrictions. SNA's small size means that 737s and A320s have a hard time getting in and out at full capacity. This capacity loss reduces revenue, thus making the route less profitable. Aloha faced this when flying their 737-700s, which had the range to do the route, but often had to block out seats in an already smaller frame.
2. As has been said, the 757 could probably do the job very well, but there are lesser numbers of them and airlines may want them on other routes.
3. There is the question of how many full flights per week an airline could squeeze out of SNA. I recall that apart from capacity and weight issues, Aloha sometimes couldn't fill the plane; I don't know about Continental. That would further reduce revenue. For the majors, many more flight connect through LAX and SAN, for example, than through SNA. Therefore, more connecting passengers can access flights through the the larger SoCal airports leading back to that revenue thingie again.

I'm sure there are other reasons. I would love to see it happen, though, as a fairly regular visitor the islands. Here's hoping Hawaiian will fly their A321s to Hawaii either through SNA or ONT. Actually, ONT would be the better choice in some ways to fly to Hawaii than SNA especially given it's longer runway. It's not that far from Orange County and the drive out the 57 and the 10 isn't actually all that bad. Here's hoping...

Bob


While I like your optimism, The 321neo that HA is taking, is far too much aircraft for SNA-HI. Now if HA went in a triangle HNL-SNA-ONT-HNL that would work, but not with their traditional mainland schedule, it would need to be red-eye to the west coast & morning return. I think curfew at SNA would be a huge problem when HI to mainland flights can be an hour early or more, with favorable winds.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
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EA CO AS
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:14 am

RWA380 wrote:
While I like your optimism, The 321neo that HA is taking, is far too much aircraft for SNA-HI.


I'm not sure it's too much aircraft, but I do wonder if it could economically perform SNA-Hawaii routes with a useful payload.
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Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Q
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:04 am

How can you tell me about it? Westjet 737-700 can take off short runway Kelowna to Cancun. It is similar SNA-HNL.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SNA-HNL,YLW-CUN

See? Hmm!!!

Q
 
FX1816
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:33 am

LAXintl wrote:
Runway runway runway. Same reason why BUR has not been able to sustain a Hawaii flight.
When AQ tried BUR, on near daily basis they were leaving baggage behind.

Aptivaboy wrote:
I Actually, ONT would be the better choice in some ways to fly to Hawaii than SNA especially given it's longer runway. It's not that far from Orange County and the drive out the 57 and the 10 isn't actually all that bad. Here's hoping...


Lets remember both HA and TZ tried ONT without long term success.


Lets also remember that HA, twice, used ONT. Once in the early 1990's with the L1011 and then again from 2002-2004/5 with DC-10's and 767's. Those type of aircraft really would never work at ONT for a place like Hawaii due to their size. Now fast forward to 2017 and beyond, something like an A321LR could work, not saying it will happen but I will hope!

Now with regards to TZ, it's pretty hard to gauge how long they would have done the ONT-HNL runs with the 738. Going out of business doesn't help that.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:45 am

Q wrote:
How can you tell me about it? Westjet 737-700 can take off short runway Kelowna to Cancun. It is similar SNA-HNL.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SNA-HNL,YLW-CUN

See? Hmm!!!

Q



YLWCUN isn't an ETOPS mission, and YLW's runway is 3000 feet longer than SNA's longest runway.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:49 am

Apparently, the bottom line is that SNA-Hawaii is NOT profitable. AQ went bankrupt and liquidated...that doesn't count. CO/UA tried it...and apparently it was not profitable...so they pulled it. It seems pretty obvious that special ETOPS 737-700's is not worth the effort.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:00 am

OzarkD9S wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Runway runway runway. Same reason why BUR has not been able to sustain a Hawaii flight.
When AQ tried BUR, on near daily basis they were leaving baggage behind.

Aptivaboy wrote:
I Actually, ONT would be the better choice in some ways to fly to Hawaii than SNA especially given it's longer runway. It's not that far from Orange County and the drive out the 57 and the 10 isn't actually all that bad. Here's hoping...


Lets remember both HA and TZ tried ONT without long term success.


As did Pacific East, anyone remember them?


UA did ONT-HNL with a DC-8 for a short time in the late 1970s too. It was about the same time they did SJC and OAK to HNL.

Back on topic, if AS's 737-700s were ETOPS equipped, I bet they'd jump on SNA-Hawaii.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:14 am

So many people here are not thinking about ETOPS. UA is the only US airline that currently has equipment that could fly SNA-Hawaii (that is, ETOPS 73Gs). And they have bigger fish to fry.
 
GoSharks
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:35 am

caflyboy wrote:
I know given slots at SNA are at a premium.


What slots? There are only 3 airports in the US that are slot restricted and SNA is not one of them.
 
77H
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:10 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
Apparently, the bottom line is that SNA-Hawaii is NOT profitable. AQ went bankrupt and liquidated...that doesn't count. CO/UA tried it...and apparently it was not profitable...so they pulled it. It seems pretty obvious that special ETOPS 737-700's is not worth the effort.


AQ going Ch7 had nothing to do with the HI-SNA routes or any other HI-Mainland route. Long story short, AQ was in the midst of an inter-island fare war with HA and YX. The HI-Mainland routes for AQ were profitable, their inter-island network, not so at the end. It could be argued that AS picked up where AQ left off and AS has been wildly successful.

Again, if SNA were to offer incentives and additional "slots" I am sure UA or another airline would be interested in operating the flights again. I wonder if 73G's equipped with slimline seats and split-scimitar winglets would perform better out of SNA. The slimline seats reduce weight and the scimitar winglets improve fuel efficiency. Better fuel efficiency=less FOB=less weight.

77H
 
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missmuttley70
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:17 am

Do all other US carrier flown to Hawaii?
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:45 am

 
caflyboy
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:50 am

 
SWADawg
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:24 pm

WN most likely will be flying to HI in the next couple of years. WN is also going to be the launch customer for the MAX-7 which may show up out of the gate with ETOPS capability specifically for SNA-HNL. So, I would never say never about an Airline attempting SNA-HNL again. The MAX-7 may just be the perfect plane to try this route once it arrives in 2019.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
United1
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:42 pm

GoSharks wrote:
caflyboy wrote:
I know given slots at SNA are at a premium.


What slots? There are only 3 airports in the US that are slot restricted and SNA is not one of them.


SNA limits the number of flights (and I think passengers) that airlines can fly thought the airport each day/year. While you are correct there are only 3 airports in the US that are slot restricted by the FAA there are several other airports that limit traffic (LGB and SNA being prime examples.)
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Why no SNA-Hawaii Non-stop?

Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:45 pm

77H wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
Apparently, the bottom line is that SNA-Hawaii is NOT profitable. AQ went bankrupt and liquidated...that doesn't count. CO/UA tried it...and apparently it was not profitable...so they pulled it. It seems pretty obvious that special ETOPS 737-700's is not worth the effort.


AQ going Ch7 had nothing to do with the HI-SNA routes or any other HI-Mainland route. Long story short, AQ was in the midst of an inter-island fare war with HA and YX. The HI-Mainland routes for AQ were profitable, their inter-island network, not so at the end. It could be argued that AS picked up where AQ left off and AS has been wildly successful.

Again, if SNA were to offer incentives and additional "slots" I am sure UA or another airline would be interested in operating the flights again. I wonder if 73G's equipped with slimline seats and split-scimitar winglets would perform better out of SNA. The slimline seats reduce weight and the scimitar winglets improve fuel efficiency. Better fuel efficiency=less FOB=less weight.

77H


You obviously didn't read my post in detail. I DID mention that AQ's departure from SNA-HI didn't count.

Slim-line seats and scimitar winglets could help. But if it requires financial incentives to fly SNA-HI, then doesn't seem pretty obvious that the route is not profitable or has very poor yields?.

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